for whatever it's worth, here is some more information for you regarding the two scenes with jessie in max faktor 11 and universal max.
as best i can tell, both scenes are shot in the same hotel room location in hawaii. it seems the scene from max faktor 11 is shot during the daytime and the scene in universal max is at night. max explains he is there on vacation during the pre scene set up. i am thinking these scenes were likely shot just a few hours or at most a few days apart.
if anything bad happened during that first scene, it obviously was not enough to deter jessie from working with max a second time.
keep in mind that in addition to gagging oral sex and using his fingers to induce vomitting, (both of which would cause the girls' eyes to water) it is obvious max does not want to discourage the girls from crying.
if you check out the behind the scenes from some of his dvds, he is shown going over the required acts with the girls.
mr. october - thanks for the info. I could harp on about this further but I don't want to bore you and everyone else any more. Needless to say, what you have said does not change my mind on the matter.
I'd appreciate an answer from Max to my previous question if he cares to provide one.
PS. Thank you for your excellent reviews mr. october. I'm looking forward to purchasing some titles on your recommendation.
Yes - I saw this on another disc that I've also discarded*(Extreme Schoolgirls Vol 9). I don't remember seeing it on Faktor 11 though.
(*not on the same account mind you. I didn't see the same type of 'damage' being inflicted in this flick. No, I got rid of this one because I thought it really lacked any merit at all and was nothing like the films that Max used to produce in his early days)
Edited by - Another porn addict on 3/31/2005 7:22:12 AM
Early days, smurly days. People have to move on with their lives, and either you change and adapt, or you die. In my case I'd be relegated to the discount bin. For me, change is easy, because I'm always on the move - going places.
Things were much slower back in the early and mid 90's. Then MTV really caught on and the pace picked up considerably. When I watch my early scenes, which we're remastering and re-editing now for my site and DVD's, I'm amazed how slow the story moved. That would never do now days. No sir-ee!
As for Jessie in Hawaii, of course those scenes were real. She got into a roll she had knew only too well. There's two types of girls in this world, dominant ones and submissive ones. In the latter catagory, there are what I call, 'natural born victims.' That's where Jessie comes in.
Hard as it is to understand, girls like Jessie just ain't happy unless they're getting their ass pulverized. No love-makin' needed here buddy. Use me, and abuse me, and I'll be coming back around anytime you like. We've all seen it, wondering, why does a chick goes out with an asshole who treats her like shit?
And as someone noted, Jessie came back after the first session. She would have been back for more I'm sure, but I had to hit the road. When I told her I was going to rachet it up a notch in the second scene, she simply said, 'don't leave any bruises, please.' Of course I never do, because I would never hit a defenseless whore with a fist or something hard. Stage-slapping, however, is another matter.
Whatever is going on in the head's of girls like Jessie, I'll propably never understand, and it really isn't my department. But if girls like her are okay with it, and people want to buy it, then I'll continue to make it.
But I can certainly understand why some folks don't like what I do, and that's okay with me. Whatever turns your crank folks. What I'm not okay with, it people trying to impose their values on me. But that's the way it's always gone for me; people with head-trips afraid that they might like what I do, or whatever, telling me that what I'm doing is wrong. Two words here, pal: Fuck + You.
I'm a pornographer - which, by common definition, is an outlaw. If my work doesn't stir up some controversy, or put me on the wrong side of the law once in a while, then I might as well just retire and ride off into the sunset.
Soundtrack for preceding post: "Rock N Roll Outlaw" -Clutch
In the North they call us Rebels, In the South they call us Yankees, Because every other suckers born to do the hokey-pokey With the skillet lickin' time keepers, The grinnin' reapers Of a missionary rock star.
You can rock it like Sir Sisyphus, But even in its genesis It's really quite ridiculous, 'Lectro hobo, so now you know Not to clock the Weeble Wobble Hot Rod Gang, Revelator Big Bang!
You can't hang with the heavinesses hung Among the houses of the rising tongue. S'no fun to crack the axles, But its gotta be done Cause whenever you wobble the weebles You know they get ticked-off!
And in the season of Boll Weevil speaking evil in your ear, And a pile of manure fertilizing all your fears, We yabba-dabba-doo all the way to Shangri-La. Here it is with the rock 'n' roll outlaw.
Where rock is criminal, criminals Rock! Where rock is criminal, the criminals they Rock! Where rock is criminal, criminals Rock!
...Like This! Hee-Haw! Hee-Haw! Hee-Haw! Hee-Haw! I'm a Rock 'N' Roll Outlaw! Hee-Haw! Hee-Haw! Hee-Haw! Hee-Haw! YEAH!!!
So you can rock it like Sir Sisyphus, But even in it's genesis It's really quite ridiculous, 'Lectro hobo, so now you know Not to clock the Weeble Wobble Hot Rod Gang! YAH! YAH!!
Hee-Haw! Hee-Haw! Hee-Haw! Hee-Haw! I'm a Rock 'N' Roll Outlaw! Hee-Haw! Hee-Haw! Hee-Haw! Hee-Haw!
Max, as others have pointed out C60 is just having fun with you. There's nothing wrong with a little ribbing now and then but its against this forum's policy to engage in personal attacks and insults.
They consider it occupational therapy for longterm resident-subjects of the Tuscaloosa Institute for the Rehabilitative Sciences "special" X-Lab Research Project to spend some portion of the day working on their computer skills, so that one day when they re-enter society-at-large they will be able to find gainful and fulfilling employment in one of the burgeoning tech fields. Cobalt earns extra points for verbal skills by posting here (it's a particular arrangement with one of the nurses, a former stripper who accepts Cobalt's "cosmic zipper" pills -- intended to supress some of his outlandish fantasies and delusions [such as, he's this guy named "Cobalt60"] -- in exchange for a DSL feed to his room. )
Still wanking after all these years. 8082 Posts 10/00
Posted - Mar 31 2005 : 10:31PM
I've seen the trailer for Golden Guzzlers 5, there are some good images, but some scenes are not my thing at all, especially slapping and smeared lipstick both huge turn offs for me so I guess I'll pass on that one. Just a matter of personal taste mind you, I'm sure many will positively love this kind of stuff.
Another porn addict: Denying the fact that you enjoy rough porn doesn't seem like much of a solution - you'd probably fantasize about it instead... and at least my fantasies are much worse than what Max Hardcore directs. And I don't see myself as disrespectful to women or 'evil'.
Accepting the 'dark' side I believe is healthier than pushing it down. With so many nasty people in this world doing so many nasty things... I don't think we've any reason to feel bad watching some rough porn once in a while.
Then, about the girls, I'm not sure if they get emotional scars from doing rough scenes... or if they already had those scars? Maybe from childhood or bad relationships? There must be something that makes them do rough scenes when they could probably go somewhere else shooting some less rough scenes.
I don't enjoy seeing porn where the girls involved are crying and it looks like those tears are for real. I don't like seeing porn where the girls involved look like they are scared and where it looks like their fear is genuine. I don't like porn where the girls involved look like they are effectively being treated like trash. This is wrong, and I can assure you that I would not fantasize about such situations. I've got no problem with what people fantasize about mind you. Fantasies are (generally) healthy, and should be encouraged as long as they remain as such. No, it is the actual depiction of everything that I have mentioned above which I consider to be wrong and inhumane.
You yourself might not consider yourself to be disrepectful to women Gunzo. It sounds like you have the intelligence and ability to keep your fantasies in the confines of your mind. All good and well. Let me assure you however that there are plenty of maniacs out there who are not able to manage this and who feel a need to take their fantasies into the realm of reality to get their kicks. People like this really shouldn't be encouraged in my opinion. Yes they might well go ahead and do what they're going to do anyway. But then again, you'd probably find that a fair number of them make it their business to access 'extreme' pornography of the type I'm referring to above, with the probable result that this inflames their later actions.
If you're talking about the girls in Max's films Gunzo, in all likelihood it's purely to do with the money in my opinion. I don't believe that any of the girls in his films would be doing what they do if there was no money involved, or out of the kindness of their hearts. I wouldn't exactly expect Max to be enjoying the off-screen action which stars like, say for example Steve Holmes, sometimes enjoy.
I won't question wheather you enjoy it or not, but still you had to destroy this disc so you would never watch it again? ;) Why would you watch it again if you don't enjoy it? To me this sounds as if you don't like the fact that actually do enjoy it.
I've accepted that I love sex and violence on film, when it's too much I laugh it off thinking of how fucked up these people must be and that fucked up is something cool and decadent.
Maniacs can flip watching Cartoon Network too... so I'm not sure if that's a good argument really.
And the girls, I don't know how much they get payed, but my point being that if they hate extreme stuff, why don't they do something a little less extreme for a little less income?
I just hope that Max Hardcore treats his girls pretty much the opposite when the camera isn't rolling. I've seen a few movies where the behind the scenes shows the same view, and that disturbs me a lot... even though that could be played not to destroy the illusion.
There were parts of it (the anal) which were acceptable to me, and which I somewhat enjoyed. I destroyed the disc on account of the other material it contained which was not acceptable to me. I destroyed the disc out of principle therefore Gunzo . If I hadn't destroyed the disc and had watched it again to see the parts that I had enjoyed then I would have personally seen myself as being a hypocrite for still gaining enjoyment from something which tittilated me in parts whilst revolting me in others. For Max or others to suggest that I secretly enjoyed the gagging/semi-puking and sheer discomfort/humiliation that was visually depicted in scenes 2/3 of Faktor 11 is to me completely crazy! However, if that's what Max et al want to believe, who am I to stand in the way of their most deluded of perceptions.I've never heard of this happening, and must say that I find your argument rather loose here, especially in light of what is said in the link I created above.Max says that he pays them about $1000.
As Seymour Butts once said, Max often likes to hire the 'new' girls who don't know what's what. Also maybe because - in Max's words - they're not employable elsewhere (I believe it to be the case that there's alot of girls out there chasing the work that is available). Jessie (in Faktor 11) looked 1) new 2) not the best-looking girl around 3) quite an addict (I'm sure that she only went through what she did for the money - not because, as Max implies, she possessed some kind of underlying attraction to the type of stuff that he put her through)
That's your opinion, and you're entitled to have it. But it worries me if you'd start imposing that on others who would enjoy these things. Freedom is the name of the game.
Andy - I'm sorry if what I'm about to say gets to you, and I'm even more sorry if you're one of the people you've referred to.
In my opinion (and it is indeed only my opinion) anyone who gets off on seeing porn where the girls involved look like they're truly distressed with what's going on, and where the girls involved are humiliated to such an extent, is rather sick (mentally). As I've contended above, by putting out this type of material I believe that producers effectively pander to the whims of the individuals concerned and thereby to some extent 'normalise' their extreme fantasies. With the possible consequential result that the watching individuals might thereby be more likely to try and act out these extreme fantasies in reality with unwilling partners. I believe this might well have been the case in the story highlighted in the link I made above.
I think enough has been said here on my part. I felt a need to respond to gunzo and Andy but feel that I've said enough on this now. At the very least I just hope that this thread has stimulated a bit of thought about the limits to which we should go with porn (Max I'd be truly honoured if this has been the case with yourself, although I think in reality that you truly couldn't give a shit)
Edited by - Another porn addict on 4/2/2005 6:05:23 AM
I don't give much for stories of how children shoot school mates just because they saw this or that movie or played this or that video game... neither that porn of any kind is to blame for peoples behaviour.
If you believe in that you should probably get rid of all your violent flicks too, like Pulp Fiction and other violent masterpieces.
If anything is to blame it's the distorted reality popular culture displays which no one can escape from. That's social narcotics you know.
I don't think extreme porn+violence is 'right', but just as some very violent movies I like it, and I won't let principles - probably formed by some deeply religious person a long time ago - stand in my way.
This debate got a lot in common with 'eating meat' or 'not eating meat'... sure it's fucked up to breed animals just so we can enjoy eating them. But hey, we like meat, right? So why should we care?
For me it's still very simple, if you hate what Max does, don't watch his movies. For me Max Hardcore is an icon because he revolutionized porn just the way Stagliano did. Max changed porn bigtime when he first started with his The Anal Adventures of Max Hardcore and we hardcore pornfans should thank him for that because until then there were hardly any hardcore stuff like that on the market.
So it's not wrong and/or inhumane to breed and kill animals for your own dirty pleasure then? Isn't it degrading and humiliating for those poor creatures to be treated like cattle? ;)
I have to agree that the stuff that goes on in factory farming is much worse than anything Max could ever throw at us. And of course the girls are there voluntarily.
However, i wouldn't use this as an argument to say anyone can make whatever film they like.
What's degrading to a cow about munching grass all day in a field ? The factory farms are wrong , but they could be legislated out of existance given enough will .Porn is part of popular culture . And comparing this grot to Tarantino flicks is pretty wierd , unless you jack off to action sequences . In which case : seek help ! Personally , I like Elastigirl ...
I haven't seen one Max Hardcore movie, and I don't even want to, considering the screenshots and trailers I have seen. I also find they look kind of "sick", i.e. not suited for me . But that is only because the fantasies depicted don't fire up the sector responsible for horniness in my brain. And most probably everyone favours something, which others call "sick".
But I do like to see "truly" distressed woman, distress to which a MH movie might probably look lame.
I mean they are performers/actresses, film != reality, and pain sluts/humiliation sluts exist.
O.K. let's just say "it's just porn": May only vanilla performers make use of their talent and are pain/humiliation sluts not allowed to do so, because these pain/humiliation sluts are sick?
But the question remains: Is it acted out as real or is it real? If you like you can spend easily two life-times on BDSM boards/NG discussing reality vs. pseudo-reality vs. play vs. 24/7-play or 24/7-lifestyle.
But was Corinne Clery or Anne Mendum really humiliated starring in "Story of O" or "The Image"? Is a performer in an AlexD movie who gets needles through her labia or gets raped tied to a gyno-chair really tortured and raped? Are the performers in a Max Hardcore movie really abused and humiliated, are they good actors and actresses or does MH just do a good job creating (pseudo)reality and bringing (pseudo)reality to the screen? I may not like the (pseudo)reality, but if he succeeds in bringing this (pseudo)reality to the viewers, more power to him (and his fan-base). If the talent is actually abused and humiliated, isn't that a dream of a prosecutor come true? The person charged guilty produced the evidence against himself.
IOW, in order to save the individual, lobotomize the whole village.
I definitely don't take anything people say personally - I hope everyone will speak their mind freely.
I really don't think the evidence is there to tie violent porn to actual sexual crime - for example, I personally find it easy to separate the girls in the films (who are just objects to me) from the women I meet in real life.
Edited by - andy the misogynist on 4/2/2005 2:44:54 PM
Just thinking about things here at my end. It seems to me that:
To do nothing about porn becoming more and more extreme on the one hand seems senseless. Surely there should be some boundaries after all?
On the other hand to actually do something about porn becoming more and more extreme seems equally senseless in light of the extent of people's diversity of tastes/the suggestion that people can generally dissociate themselves from their fantasies in reality (both of which I'm picking up on from this thread).
Maybe the best thing to do is just do nothing at all and wait and see what happens, if anything. And let the 'powers that be' be the ones to institute the eventual clampdown if they do eventually do so and if they are indeed able to manage this.
I'm beginning to think that there really are no right or wrong answers in all of this. Just individual perceptions.
PS I'm not stoned or anything. PPS I'm still personally not happy with what I saw in scenes 2/3 in Faktor 11!
As I said, why should only vanilla performers be allowed to capitalize on their talent. There are pain sluts and humiliation sluts. The only thing which matters, is is it "good" pain or "good" humiliation or is it abusive pain and humiliation.
I think this review of Max Faktor 11 did a great job for Max because I ordered it at Erodvd but it was sold out and now I have to wait before they will have it in stock again. It was the only Max title out of stock while I got the other 8 euro versions at Erodvd of Max with no problem.
Another porn addict: If I'm not mistaken rape is a popular fantasy among women. In porn women can live out this fantasy rather safely, good thing! If you look at Japan, rape is a quite popular male fantasy too, and I don't think that's an isolated phenomenon either.
Back in the days, didn't we use to club the woman of choice and drag her home by her hair? Now we try to club 'em with liquour instead ;) That's how far in mentality we've gotten really.
So to think of it as wrong or inhumane is probably just societies chains holding you back, which may be a good thing since you obviously can't watch MH as a work of fiction.
To me it's seems kinda odd to mail some pornperson who probably gets a million death threats a week. Just stop watching it and it's no longer your problem. Others will keep eating meat even though some say it's wrong (which is probably correct) because they enjoy it. Egocentrism is violent and dirty, self preservation etc etc. Few people really cares, so pat your back and join "ADTAIDPA" (Adult DVD Talkers Against Inhumane Depiction of Porn Actresses)
If a performer chooses to appear in a BDSM production you may expect that he/she knows what is expected of him/her before he/she arrives on set.
I also think that a performer should inform himself/herself beforehand, what they will face when working with producer/director X.
Granted, there is always a possibility something can go wrong and somebody could get abused or harmed. It is a bit speculative, but given the fact that Max Hardcore has his reputation it may even be less likely that a performer gets abused/harmed on a MH set, than on a "normal" porn set, because he/she may not be too surprised to what is happening there.
BTW, an adult person should be able to inform him/herself what to expect at his/her working environment. BTW2, isn't it a prosecutor's dream come true if the suspect produces and actively provides the evidence against himself.
AFAICS most trials involving porn are based on laws for decency/public moral etc. but almost never on abuse or doing mental and physical harm to the performers.
You're wrong here I'm afraid gunzoI mailed Max before seeing the films of his I mentioned earlier. As I said before - hadn't seen any of his new releases for ages prior to this.....the content in his films has changed.....etc.etc.etc....yawn....yawwwwnnnn. Couldn't really give a monkeys incidentally as to whether Max receives millions of death threats or not when it comes to my mailing him. Just like you or anyone else my decisions are made by MOIDon't worry - I intend to!My apologies gunzo if you feel I've been egocentric by way of starting this thread. Judging by the number of readings its' received I would tentatively suggest that there are may be a few others out there who've also found this matter of some interest. (Psst....pssst....I'm trying to finish my input into this thread....I'd be really grateful if you could do likewise........honest!)Didn't know whether to or when I read this!
I think that sometimes porn viewers lay on the armour of a white and shining knight, and in doing so humiliate the performers to a level that no gape/piss/gagging/whatever-demanding director/producer could ever pull off. Because they don't see the performers as adults, but young little girlies (interestingly rarely they are interested on the maltreatment of men) who can't make decisions on their own.
