None, but if people think performers are actually/really harmed/mistreated/humiliated in a movie they should go and call the next district attorney and have them prosecute the producer/director.
Since this does not happen very often, viewers in general seem to be very sure that the talent is informed/consents/ not maltreated.
If they are unsure, why don't they call the authorities, which exist to investigate such matters.
We are also not talking about a handful people which witness a potential crime, like the few neighbours when reporting domestic violence, e.g.
There are probably X*1000 of viewers out there (rental, purchase) and how many prosecutions have taken place because of assault/battery of performers (not because of indecency/obscenity charges)? But probably the numbers are close to zero, even though there are so many witnesses.
I also know of some religious nut and his association for a crusade against porn in my country, where they watch porn and then inform the courts and prosecutors about whatever they think is illegal about these porn movies. I guess such people also exist in other countries. But even they don't seem to go for the assault/battery route, but stick with obscenity related charges.
All these trying to shut down porn with obscenity charges is like trying to get a grip on Al Capone with tax fraud, instead of murder. If assault/battery was continually going on on the sets of a well known figure of the porn biz, these groups and the legal system would already have him busted. (Feminist anti-porners wanted to axplore the battery/assault route for shutting down porn AFAIR, but even they failed.)
Of course the porn producers could also have some evil mastermind hired from a James Bond movie who smoothens things.
But Occam's razor tells me that: Most viewers are pretty sure there is little to no (real) battery or assault going on in porn movies and/or the investigations of legal authorities don't lead to a conviction. In the case of Max Hardcore who resides in the USA where things like this happen, it is even more evident that all the fuss about battery/assault on MH-sets is most likely without substance.
People are disturbed by certain movies, and they use some scapegoat. "See, I like smut. But my smut is innocent. See what these misogynistic, abusive scumbags produce. *indexfinger pointing*" And the conscience of Mr/s. porn viewer is clear again. Probably all other porn producers should pay Max Hardcore a fee for filling the role of a scapegoat.
Another porn addict: Of course it's interesting, for/against is always interesting because we all know best
I guess it is kind of egocentric to dis something a lot of people like just to make a stand. But hey, it's not like I'm offended. Keep fighting and maybe someday these people understand that watching extreme pornography and eating meet is WRONG.
Until then, I won't care... it's just too much thinking involved to be healthy...
The strangest/funniest thing is Gunzo that at this point in the proceedings I almost can't contemplate why I was making all the fuss in the first place. I'm sorry to say that it all just seems a tad amusing now, though I certainly didn't start this thread off as a joke. I was well-niggled by it all at the beginning. Now? I'm of the attitude that Max and the movies he makes is just one of those things. That's life. Takes all sorts, and the rest of it. Still, better to feel light-hearted about these things than hold a grudge, eh?
Isn't the point that the director has got the starlet to sign a bit of paper giving legal consent, so even if at some point she withdraws actual consent the scene can carry on and she can never prove it? There's something fascinating about the fine line between consent and the other thing.
Don't wanna get involved . Don't wanna admit they watch smut . Don't wanna soil their mittens with the likes of this lot . Don't care . Don't think it'll do any good . Plenty of reasons .
As to the thousands you speculate are watching , bear in mind that most of those have made an active effort to find these flicks and probably enjoy them so they've no desire to rock the boat . Those who don't feel the pain just don't watch . I can't remember ever hearing about this guy until after I joined ADT , it's not as if he's a household name !
Are you aware just how many actual rapes reported every year fail to reach a conviction ? It's a staggering percentage , something around 85% if my mind isn't playing tricks on me . If that more serious crime isn't able to be properly pursued why would anyone think these possible instances of coersion , intimidation , whatever , will be ? Talking hypothetically of course ..
How would they be able to tell ? Unless you think the camera never lies , which I think you're far too savvy to believe . In the end it comes down to one person's word against another . Possibly a crack addict ex pornstar against a purveyor of smut : now that's a case every DA in the States would bite off your right hand to try ! Something tells me the authorities couldn't care less about the potential abuse being suffered by -in their eyes- the scum who make porn . It doesn't sit well with family values and their incessant need for reelection . Besides there's a whole gamut of actions lying between rape->assault->fucking , proving at which particular station anything happened on one of these sets would be difficult to say the least . Especially if the girl signed a waver or made a recorded statement beforehand .
But there are enough people to permanently start threads which go into the direction "Is director X abusing his performers?".Hence my surprise that there seems to be not a single case about battery/assault (at least in the more mainstreamish porn side,, to which also MH belongs to, opposed to self identified BDSM-erotica).It is not me, who speculates about abuse of performers.I don't know what I am going to do, when I retire. Painting tin soldiers, building model airplanes? Some people have chosen bringing down the sex industry. If I would choose this to be my hobby, I would not mess around with obscenity charges and nail the immmoral pornographers with battery/assault charges. Soon I would send a few DVDs which may support my cause to a prosecutor. And with a little luck (give it a little spin in the media, choose producers who do "really disgusting" things) you can praise yourself as the rescuer of fallen angels, even if there is not much evidence.
Odds are, anti-porners have already tried this.
Then there is informed consent and an assault charge cannot be filed.
OTOH, you don't even have to go to the US to see that even this may not rescue "scum" from getting prosecuted, Spanner Case in the UK (late 80ies), e.g.
Another porn addict: So I got Max Faktor 11 (the nastier euro version) and... I don't find it all that bad. I don't really like the acting, that the girls are innocent girls who are being abused because they're fucking stupid. But the sex lacked intensity, I've seen Rocco and his gang going at unexperienced girls a lot harder, not so kinky, but much more intense, and I bet those girls didn't enjoy it too much.
The girls look fine though, I love tall skinny girls. To see the girls arch back over the couch gagging was pretty hot...
If it was gonzo without any story to it I would probably think it's over the top rough, but now it's an abuse fantasy. And those in my mind are much better. It doesn't feel very real, and therefore I can't feel sorry for the girls.
I don't think I'm a big fan of Max Harcore, but not because of the moral aspect of his material but because of the production, which I don't really like.
I kinda hate this fucker because he fucked Tiffany mynx so much and then abused of her somehow... I dont remenber where I read that in some article in lukeford and some other shit around the net.
Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service. 6409 Posts 11/99
Posted - Apr 29 2005 : 11:50AM
You do realize that most women who have been raped or abused do not call the authorities.
Look at the gossip circus that ensues when pornstars do say they have been raped on or off a set. Even if a director was convicted of rape he would still have a job when he got out of prison. There is enough of the porn industry and enough viewers that just don't care.
I never put no whore in no fucking hospital. That's complete and utter bullshit. I probably should have at some point in my career, with some of the lying, cheating, going around your back bitches I've had to deal with, but it never happened.
I don't pick on people smaller than me, and if I was intending to kick someone's ass, which is not my nature, I would even ask that they take their glasses off.
This is certainly true, but it does not relieve people who claim to have witnessed or suspect to have witnessed rape/abuse/battery/assault from their responsibility and duty to act properly.
To act properly in such a case does not mean gossiping and it does not mean coming onto some forum and posing as some knight in shining armour. It is calling the appropriate authorities, period.
Producers of mainstream movies are reported for putting their performers (actors, stand-ins) in hospital by demanding various dangerous acts, sportsmen are reported to put their colleagues into hospital by being rough with them.
Wouldn't you categorise that as assault?
And the people who are not spouting of abuse, but think that the poor porn girls are somehow tricked into a bad situation and so on. These porn girls are adults, and have responsibility by choosing with whom they work. And it is certainly not blaming the victim, because they should inform themselves, what they will face. Nobody would give a shit about a softball football player complaining about bruises, because he was dumb enough to join a full contact rugby match.
"A girl who lets herself get dead drunk at a fraternity party is a fool. A girl who goes upstairs alone with a brother at a fraternity party is an idiot. Feminists call this “blaming the victim.” I call it common sense." - Camille Paglia
"In 1992, Max sent performer Pamela Dee to the emergency room at a hospital in Burbank after she suffered vaginal haemorrhaging during a shoot. Max had come up behind her and rammed his fist into her vagina."
[Link]
DenverDon Benevolent
Firmly Embedded in Depravity 5914 Posts 7/02
Posted - Apr 29 2005 : 4:15PM
asseater,
Do you have a source for the quote so we know that it is not a fabricated statement?
You taking a side-swipe at me here by any chance Zartyr?
And there I was thinking that we'd reached a tentatively friendly conclusion to our differences in our recent email communication.
Perhaps I was mistaken in my belief here.
But let me take this opportunity to make the following a little bit clearer to you.
1) At no point in this thread have I claimed to witness or claimed to have suspected to witness Max raping/abusing/battering/assaulting girls 2 and 3 in Faktor 11.
2) I did not start this thread as gossip. In no way was it my intention to 'stir things up'/harm Max or his reputation by way of making the statement I was making. Anyone with an ounce of intelligence should be able to make up their own mind about such matters, regardless of the comments I've made.
This is a forum very much concerned with porn and porn matters/people's likes and dislikes/their interpretations of the porn they see. Thank god most of us here live in a part of the world where we are free to publicly discuss our thoughts. I personally felt a need (by way of starting this thread) to publicly communicate my perceptions (not idly waffle about) about the recent work of Max's that I had seen; my personal opinion of it; how it compared to some of his much earlier work that I had seen previously; and my suggestion about my belief that we somehow need to "reign-in" the ever-increasing extremities of porn's boundaries when it comes to the graphic depiction (be it real or not) of women being treated roughly (by 'we' I mean producers and consumers). Otherwise I believe that this might well be further attempted by authorities with a mind hostile to porn (again look at discussion relating to this in the World News section of the forum a month or so ago) in the future - to the detriment of the porn community (producers and consumers) as a whole.
3) The 'knight in shining armour' has always been your metaphor. I'm sorry to have to enlighten you to the fact that it is an inaccurate portrayal of my intentions in this thread.
Max Hardcore @ AEBN
Posted - Apr 3 2005 : 10:46AM