Compared to their straight male counterparts? I like to use the example of the segregated nba where black players were not allowed in and it was a largely white and jewish league. When the practice of ethnic segregation came to an end we all know which ethnicity came to dominate the nba. Is boy/girl porn in a similar spot when it comes to keeping gay male performers(many whom aren't actually gay) from performing with women. I happen to think that he answer is yes and when this practice of segregation comes to an end you will see something of an aesthetic and overall revolution in porn akin to what happened with the nba. The men in gay porn are obviously aesthetically superior, I think this will also translate to overall leading male performance across the board if bisexually capable men can do what women do. Consider that numerous men in gay porn are working with their secondary preference or in the case of Paddy O'Brian completely for pay.
Define "obviously aesthetically superior". Aesthetics are a matter of individual taste so I fail to see what makes a man or woman "obviously superior" from an aesthetics standpoint.
How do perceived superior aesthetics translate into better male performance? I'm not sure you've thought this through or at best, you haven't explained very well.
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Maxxx Stirner Deactivated User
319 Posts 11/14
Posted - Mar 17 2020 : 11:03PM
By conventional beauty standards gay male performers would be higher rated then many of their counterparts in hetero along with being younger. I'm not suggesting that any kind of objective beauty standard but there's a reason why gay performers are the default stars on AEBN. Looking at male porn performance on both sides of the aisle I personally see gay performers as the better performers.
Those are some incredibly broad sweeping statements. I can't speak for the demographic of gay porn but there are plenty of young straight male performers in straight porn.
What is a "default star"? The problem with using with the word "but" is that is usually disregards everything stated before it so you are suggesting there is an objective beauty standard which isn't the case.
All you have established is personal views of what is better or "obviously superior" without using any facts to substantiate or qualify what's better.
You still haven't explained how better aesthetics make a better male performance beyond how you "personally see" it.
Edited by - AngryPirate on 3/19/2020 8:58:21 AM
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Maxxx Stirner Deactivated User
319 Posts 11/14
Posted - Mar 18 2020 : 1:57AM
I never suggested it was an objective claim. There has never been an objective playbook of what constitutes great sexual performance on camera for either men or women. This isn't like sports and it is left to a subjective call outside of some type of standard. In terms of default star I meant it in the context of AEBN and the fact that they focus on gay male performers and not straight ones who aren't seen as stars the way the women are. I also believe they attract more followers to various social media sites(the most followed black males for instance are Max Konnor and Rhyeim Shabazz). Yes there are young straight male performers(some who started in GP like Oliver Flynn for instance) but on average gay performers are younger and(by traditional aesthetic convention) better looking then their straight male counterparts and by my own eyes they would probably make better performers due to things like more age parity with their female partners and co-attractiveness. There's also things like being equally bisexual and open to certain things that crude hetero performers aren't into like rubbing dicks for instance which not all straight guys are down with.
If I read you correctly. You prefer that the hetero porn industry use crossover young male performers who are into circus porn over older hetero only male performers.
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Maxxx Stirner Deactivated User
319 Posts 11/14
Posted - Mar 18 2020 : 10:40AM
Not necessarily though you do have performers like Pressure and Prince Yashua who make that a thing. I do think that kama sutra like movement for the camera is part of what makes a good performer though and gay porn does have more performers of that type. I mentioned Rhyheim Shabazz and Max Konnor, those are examples of high end performers who are more likely to be on the gay side. Performer like that who swing both ways would make porn as a whole better in my view.
Edited by - Maxxx Stirner on 3/18/2020 10:59:32 AM
No idea, never watched agay movie , though Danny D has been a gay for pay performer in his early days if that is the kind of performers walking around over there then I may think you're right
I've watched Bi and Forced Bi Cuck type porn and can say that I admire the ability of the guy receiving head to not completely lose his composure when he tells the other guy to "Lick my balls, while your wife gives me head!" I crack up every time, so yes, they're definitely the better performer based on that one aspect alone. But, that's just me. Other's mileage may vary based on driving habits and conditions.
I don't know if they are better performers (I don't watch gay porn), but I don't have any difficulty to believe they are better looking on average than straight performers. That's because straight porn is generally more about women, so the fact that the guy is particularly attractive is not so crucial. I'm sure there are many women who prefer to look to scenes with a good looking guy, but I suspect that still the vast majority of those who watch porn are men, so producers don't care too much probably about that, and much more abour reliability or intensity or if the guy is well endowed. And there is also porn that uses the fact that the guy is not good looking as a key factor, since it makes real the fantasy that even someone who's ugly or fat or old can have sex with a dream girl.
In any case I wonder if the fact that on average the guys in gay porn are more good looking translates also in being better performers, considering that the bottom guys don't have to get an erection during all the scene (I guess).
as someone who has a interest in scenes with young guys with mature women: not really. If you look at IAFD for guys who are 18-22 you will find A LOT of gay performers (and on average quite attractive) and very few straight young guys.
This part from his post above my reply "open to certain things that crude hetero performers aren't into like rubbing dicks for instance" I may be wrong but that is normally used when describing DVP, and DAP scenes.
Maybe its because most of the people who watch straight porn are straight guys who don't really want to see the guy's face shown much, no matter how good (or bad) looking he is. I know I don't. I hate when they cut away to show the dude's face. I'm not watching it to marvel over how hot some guy is, I'm watching it to see the hot girl get fucked.
yes I know, I was using the term young the way is used for girls considering that I've seen many women still in their early 20s called milfs in many sites, and no, without even having children, just for their look. Or because women are seen by someone as "old" and therefore as milfs even at that age in porn. But sure if you go to the late 20s early 30s there are more guys in straight porn, if that's the kind of age you were considering.
aesthetically superior is an opinion. However, most people aren't watching bg porn for the guy. so sure, maybe the guy is more important in bb porn, as the market is also, generally different.
I'm not sure this is true either. There's a reason if certain guys are popular. There are those who want to see the dominant guy (like Rocco Siffredi or Nacho Vidal), the very young guy (like Jordi), the obese one (The minion), the black guy with a huge penis Dredd), the muscular good looking one (like J Mac) or the old man (like Jack Moore). It's not like male performers are always interchangeable.
I'm one of those straight men who actually cares about the male performers. I may not want to stare at their faces for 10 minutes but I want them to be part of the scene and not just their dicks which sadly is often what we get in modern porn to the point where it's mostly a penis, a vagina and/or an asshole and very little else. Modern porn has manged to almost eliminate the people in the scene and reduced it to genitals that just happen to be attached to people. To me that is a feat that I could not imagine when I first started watching porn so many decades ago.
It's not that black and white, is it? While I watch b/g to see a very attractive lady, there are male performers who can be a deal breaker for varying reasons.
Leaving aside the collection of logical fallacies in OP post, which is little more than opinion masquerading as fact. Actually, If I do that I'm unable to make any comment as his post is one massive "this is what I reckon".
But the biggest fallacy is estimating the number of male performers who want to or are capable of crossing over. It just might be that male performers in gay porn are actually gay, shocker, right? So the idea that there is a tsunami of "gay" male performers waiting to get access to straight porn is fanciful.
I only watch gay or bi-bbg porn more or less coincidentally by surfing the net for decent anal scenes.
I have to admit that the gay performers over all seems to be in a "better shape" and I wouldn´t mind if some of them replace the old hairy guys with bellies and fat asses that fuck my favorite actresses way too often and ruin the scenes.
Like pat 362 I care about the male performers in straight porn.
I haven't watched much gay porn, and what I have watched is in the context of studying it, rather than for erotic pleasure. I am not in a good position to judge male attractiveness. I can imagine, as someone else already mentioned, that gay porn performers would be more attractive on average versus their counterparts in straight porn. Males are less a focus in straight porn.
As a viewer or consumer of porn, I tend to appreciate male performers more for their personalities or how they portray their personalities. I am not concerned with their looks. I would only concern myself with their looks in the negative, like if someone were egregiously outside of physical-appearance norms. Many, many guys are like me.
So, in a way, I agree with you, OP, but I don't think that performers in gay porn would eclipse male straight porn performers if segregation were removed. The basketball analogy doesn't hold.
It's subjective at the end of day, Angry Pirate. But I think you're looking at it too rigidly. The role of a male performer in gay porn typically-on average-is going to encompass more than in straight porn, due to different audience demands.
Gay, in the common sense? Not in my bubble of porno air.
I find at least three superior male performers in my vast collection of DVDs: Erik Everhard, Mark Ashley and J-Mac. I could throw in a bunch of others. And I simply refuse to believe that BBC ever took part in this polling debate. They would have some Qs. They sure are very much like superior male performers judging by overwhelming evidence out on the scene. And I have taken this issue under serious investigation, and frankly quite some consideration. Was there ever a PHD out there, count me in tomorrow. My vast collection of DVD, not to mention a jungle of links to missed out scenes out on the web, also offers a bunch of failures. Why they fall into the latter category, failures speaking, may have many reasons. One is the lack of passion. Some just don`t show pussy appreciation. I find it rather hard to digest. Another one is limited power and measure which sadly speaks its own language.
SOOO If you show up with a huge cock, that may save the situation. If passion is involved, I see no gay dude. If no passion is involved, I may change my mind. Big cocks trumps smaller anyway, so be it.
In my time of leisure and wonder, discussing this issuse with myself and I, I have jumped to some alternative conclusions regarding Chris Strokes, was he ever a gay performer, or did he just act. Well he just needed cash back then. Or to open a gate. He had the key! He sure knew how to act.
If he really was gay, he is one of the best actors ever. It is really hard to believe. Jack Nicholson should really handle him some golden trophies straight away.
Others seem tired of banging pussy, it is a strange world we live in, I know - so they go straight to the ass all the time. They are not superior in my book. That was all I had to say for now.
My knowledge of gay porn is so limited that I couldn't even offer more than anecdotal info or what I have read so exactly how does the role of a performer in gay porn encompass more that that of his counterpart in straight porn and does that have anything to do with them being referred to by the OP has being more aesthetically superior?
One reason that may lead to the conclusion that gay performers are aesthetically superior is that the gay audience cares more about male looks than the hetero audience.
Yeah, it's ultimately subjective and all that, but that doesn't prevent people from arriving at wide consensuses regarding beauty.
Aside from that, I don't see how someone can extrapolate from this specific domain (beauty, with all the caveats) to the general assertion that gay performers are the superior male performers. It just doesn't follow.
Edited by - coming soon on 3/21/2020 9:34:16 AM
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Maxxx Stirner Deactivated User
319 Posts 11/14
Posted - Mar 23 2020 : 2:57PM
To address some answers starting with leather face the percentage gap of male and female porn viewers and consumers is shrinking every year. You have things like popular with women on PH which give you an idea of what they are into and it will include gay porn stuff as well as hot jock porn(hot guys fuck) which tends to be produced by gay porn companies. There's also the fact that the modern western landscape is LOT more bisexual then people realize. Kyle Kulinsky of Secular Talk fame talked about a study out of Britain showing that a 3rd of 16-22 year olds were bisexual to some degree from curious all the way to fully orientational. This is basically your mid 90s and later borns who are the future porn consumers. Given this data as well as what would turn on hetero females more it makes sense for porn to start integrating yesterday and also change the way the boy/girl scene is shot. A boy/girl scene should not be that different from a girl/t-girl scene with more exposure given to the male body and form then currently is now. It doesn't have to be like hotguysfuck or corbinfisher which is for a gay eyed audience but it does have to be in that direction.
BangersAndMash: I'm pretty sure the crossover dynamics are the same for guys in gay porn as it is for women who do girl/girl. There are probably more then a few gay for pays a minority who are fully gay(though some like women will take the pay) and a lot who are orientationally straight up bisexual. You have people like Dante Colle Michael DeRay and Pierce Parris who are chomping at the bit for the industry to drop the segregated practices such as grey and blacklisting women who would work with them.
While we're at it, I've noticed women in "bi" porn take on a sometimes different and unique persona versus a typical female persona in MMF porn. I like it. If you can get past the squeamishness, as I have (I still fast forward the M-M), some of those bi scenes can be quite enjoyable, watching the woman. There is a case to be made for desegregation. I don't want the discussion to get ugly. I'm just observing differences in performer personas across different 'sexuality genres' if you will.
Not having previously given this much thought, I didn't realize there was still such rigid segregation. I think the OP raises some interesting points and though knowing little about gay porn, am in broad agreement. I think many traditional porn fans can appreciate a good-looking guy with a well-developed body even if they wouldn't be interested in going to bed with him, and has been pointed out there are now more women viewers, and also those in their early twenties who are relaxed with having a more fluid sexuality.
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Maxxx Stirner Deactivated User
319 Posts 11/14
Posted - Mar 27 2020 : 10:29AM
2^Part of the reason women take on a different persona is because this is very much for them like a guy performing with 2 sexual contacting girls in your typical bgg scene. You definitely see the female enjoyment side of things in Wolf Hudson videos. Part of the reason more women don't do it is because they fear being black grey and shit listed in the industry. Same thing for wanting to perform with trans women performers. There's definitely a hetero female market for mmf bi/switch fucking scenes.
It depends by the performers. Better than a Rocco Siffedi there is noone. But there are a lot of gay actors that are better than straight male performers. It depends also in what you like. I love muscular men and I think in the best gay porn sites I visit on [mod edit: link removed because this link points people to a lot of tube sites] they are better. Twinks and bears for me no, but is my opinion.
There also seems to be a lot more fresh new faces in gay porn which is absolutely not the case with the men in straight studio porn.
I've noticed that there used to be a lot more amateur good looking guys on sites like BangBus, Fuck Team Five about 10 years ago whereas now it's the same tedious rotation of men. Like you I'm also interested in MILF with younger guy porn and the studios really need to up their game in recruiting fresh male talent for these cougars to fuck.
Studio porn also really needs some better angles than just these closeups and angles that awkwardly crop out the guy. I want to see two people fucking in exotic positions not some abstract genitalia.
Posted - Mar 17 2020 : 9:41PM