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Forced Entry included scenes of simulated rape which were actually consensual. For any type of porn to be lawful all performers must be adults - 18 years old or over and fully consenting. All performers provide their legal ID documentation (drivers license or passport) and sign a model release form which must be kept on file in order to prove the production was legal and consensual. If a real rape is video-taped/filmed then obviously that is illegal because rape is a crime. A very serious crime. Anyone involved in making a movie like that is liable to end up in prison. If it is simulated the producers may possibly find themselves on an obscenity charge which would have to be contested in a court of law. It is advisable to only produce extreme porn in jurisdictions that are known to be reasonably porn-friendly.
In my opinion (and I'm not a lawyer or anything), going anywhere near it is basically playing with fire. It may not be technically illegal if the performers are actually consenting and you dot every i and cross every t but when it comes to legal matters and porn, what people are going to think and how people feel about it is ultimately going to be what matters. At the end of the day, if you have a situation where simulated rape is on trial and you put it in front of an emotional jury, I don't think it's going to matter that it was simulated. The jury is going to be pissed off and they're going to see what they want to see.
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hoochimama Deactivated User
1438 Posts 5/10
Posted - Apr 9 2013 : 8:02PM
You never saw a scene from the now extinct pornstarpunishment site? Like Geri and RandomPrecision pointed out, there's nothing inherently illegal about it but with a bogus obscenity law any porn is at a risk of being considered obscene, the more extreme it is the higher the risk. Kink.com for instance draws the line at pissing and fisting, brazzers took down pornstarpunishment because of its rapey plots. ____________________________ Please ID these PlayboyTV girls https://forum.adultdvdtalk.com/playboytv-foursome-identification-thread/ Edited by - hoochimama on 4/9/2013 8:13:42 PM
Kink has some "consensual" type scenes , mostly from sexandsubmission as I remember . kara Price has a scene in Love Hurts 2 that's simulates forced . Power and Control from Digital Sin , which had two very rough scenes. Jessie Andrews get forced fucked in the bathroom by James Deen as her fiancé is outside , definitely a forced submission . Lizzy London also has a scene where she is face fucked in prison , that scene was clearly a rape fantasy (from the male pov) .I just noticed that hotmovies has deleted it from their site , as they have also deleted all the max hardcore stuff . There are many websites from Russia , they are explicit rape scenes . Most of these scenes have a ending with (that was all my fantasy) , smilar to the classic John Leslie / Robin Cannes scene from Wild Things ,that was always the "out" . Edited by - jakejd4949 on 4/10/2013 9:28:58 AM
^^^^ any idea where that Lizzy London scene might be from ? .
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realtip Deactivated User
2301 Posts 6/04
Posted - Apr 21 2013 : 2:51AM
To the OP, I ask the following question: Are rape scenes allowed to be shown in mainstream movies and TV? If the answer is Yes, then you have your answer. If it were illegal to show rape in porn, then it would also have to be illegal to show it in non-porn entertainment.
So the simple answer to the original question is No, such scenes are not illegal. But that apparently doesn't stop everyone from thinking they are.
The scenes are technically not illegal from a criminal sexual conduct/rape viewpoint and the model releases show consent. However, when we get another Attorney General in office with a corncob up his ass regarding porn obscenity charges could be forthcoming. Whether they would stick with a jury nowadays or if a judge would even allow a trial I think the chances are 50/50 either way depending on what state the trial took place in. After the John Stagliano trial (which IIRC took place in Washington DC) you can bet your ass that the next trial will be in one of the more conservative states such as any Federal Court district in Utah or the Traverse City Federal Court district of Michigan where the judge will not be so deferential to the defense. For the record I think obscenity laws and trials are asinine. As long as porn doesn't involve kids, murder or rape and all is consensual it should be legal. John Stagliano should be thanked for fighting his case to trial and making the Department of Justice look like asses.
Oh well. It's not going to matter too much anymore if they get their rubber laws. The condom mandate will make a porn scene worth about as much as pocket lint. Gotta hand it to them on the creativity side of things. You're not likely to be able to ban porn on the grounds that it's offensive. Instead, take the money out of it by making it worthless by mandating censorship disguised as worker safety.
Perhaps the laws are different from state to state or websites can get away with different things but I'm pretty sure I remember reading something years ago saying porn can't show "rape" or certain types of forced sex. It might a thing like fisting in that it is only illegal in certain states and most studios putting out DVDs don't show it to avoid any hassle. You can't compare it to showing rape in mainstream movies because with those movies it's very obvious no actual rape occurred because there's no actual sex act. With mainstream porn until very recently I've never seen a scene depicting anything even close to rape (or the girl willing went along with it very quickly) and with bondage movies I've never seen performers have sex while one of them is bound in any way (BJ at most). These days that stuff is common on the web but except for BRAZZERS PORNSTAR PUNISHMENT which I personally don't really consider "rape" in the true sense I still haven't seen rape scenes or scenes of bondage sex in mainstream on DVD.
Well KINK as far as I know does not distribute or sells any of its stuff in the USA so that you can only download scenes from their site , that way the court should always be that where their servers are , and if someone violates the laws by downloading a scene knowing it is forbidden , then it's up to him. I have a Kink DVD (which are expensive BTW) on its cover there is a warning from Kink: WARNING It is strictly forbidden to own or to sell Kink.com DVD's within the United States of America. Luckily enough I live in the European Union where recently has been established that porn from the internet cannot be forbidden nor censored. There's an age limit to access though it is 18 years of age in almost all countries. Edited by - LCF on 4/21/2013 10:01:16 AM
Although you are correct in your assessment that mainstream movies do show some rape scenes. Jodie Foster's The Accused comes to mind as one where the rape looks very real but I think that those are not on the same level as a porn movie showing a rape scene because at no time is their actual sexual intercourse. You only have simulated penetration and that is a far cry from seeing actual penetration of the vagina or ass. Of course an argument could be made that simulated or not. The end result is that it looks real to the viewer but I suspect that the legal system would have a double standard when looking at a mainstream rape scene vs a porn one. Not fair but then again life is not always fair.
^ Monica Bellucci's Irreversible shows a rape it is a long scene and it is so realistic to even be disturbing. A rape in a porn movie is equally acted and no actual rape occur , the only difference is that a porn is better detailed but usually acted worse than a mainstream movie especially when you see the rapist do acrobatic to let the cameraman get close ups and the girl do her best to remove her clothes when they cover too much. hardly a rape Edited by - LCF on 4/21/2013 11:17:02 AM
^I don't think I implied that a mainstream rape scene is less intense or disturbing than a porn one but if I did then let me explain myself a little more. A mainstream rape scene is less visually graphic in regards to penetration since there isn't any but it's likely to be shown in a porn scene. In many ways a mainstream rape scenes can be much more instense and also a lot more disturbing because the actress being raped is one that we normally associate with a very different role or roles and therefore there is a bigger shock value. I quite agree with you that Monica's rape scene in Irreversible looks real and is also quite disturbing (possibly in part because of what I wrote above). That's the kind of movie that can be filmed in Europe but you would never see a US studio attempt to make a similar film for fear that it would cost them millions of dollars in bad publicity. Monica worled with her husband on that film so I wonder what kind of conversation you have atfer shooting a scene like that?
What about softer non-consensual scenes, like blackmail, drugging, hypnosis/mind control? I'm a fan of rape/NC/reluctant themes but I feel kink.com or sex & submission are a bit rough for my tastes. I would rather see scenes of blackmail where a woman is caught in a compromising position then forced to have sex with the blackmailer or have sex with others through threat of exposure not force or violence. Or hypnosis where a woman goes to a hypnosis show, get's hypnotized on stage then her husband/boyfriend or somebody else get's control of her through the hypnosis trigger phrase. Or spanish fly type scenes where a woman is slipped a mickey and has sex with the drugger or other people. Scenes that would be technically rape, but without the roughness or violence of the kink or rougher sites. Some examples of past soft NC themes in mainstream releases: Anal Professor https://www.adultdvdtalk.com/movie/anal-professor/vod-download Scientist invents a horny formula, assistant drinks it then fucks two other guys who happen to walk in. They then take the formula to test it and give it to another nurse, she get's super horny and get's triple penetrated. Two more great scenes like makes this flick a classic from Zane back in the day. Bad https://www.adultdvdtalk.com/movie/bad-vca Two great hypnosis scenes. The main girl goes to some kind of clinic to help whatever problems she had, the doctor puts her under hypnosis, another patient comes in and bribes him to give him control of her. He does then they have sex with her. The guy then later has her seduce the female psychiatrist who shot him down so he can come in while their doing it and have sex with her also. I saw this way back when on VHS and it's since been re-released with the NC/hypnosis scenes CUT OUT. I haven't been able to find the original uncut anywhere. Super Quick https://www.adultdvdtalk.com/movie/super-quick The hero's girlfriend get's caught by the bad guys. They spray her with an arousal spray, she gets horny and they fuck her. It's also Kurious's only anal scene, so the fact that's it's her only anal plus NC makes it one of the classics. Department S: Mission 1 https://www.adultdvdtalk.com/movie/department-s-mission-1-city-of-broken-angels Bad guy gases two hot agents with arousal gas then has sex with them. Several other gassing scenes makes this a great movie. Teenage Spermaholics 3 https://www.adultdvdtalk.com/movie/teenage-spermaholics-3-jules-jordan-video Von Swine owes money to some nogoodniks, they come over and fuck his daughter Kat as an interest payment. Soft rape as in they don't ask permission though she doesn't say no. Then Von Swine calls Jasmine Byrne to have sex with the guys he owes money to. She says she can't since she's engaged. He says he'll give her fiance pic/vids of her old job if she doesn't. She even says, "Are you blackmailing me?" She comes over, acts only slightly reluctant if any, and get's blowbanged and swallows every load, then gang banged in the final scene with DP and swallows. She looks totally hot in the scenes so the blackmail aspect just adds a touch of flavor to the scenes. One of the best vids in the series, if not the best. ETC...I could name a few more but you get my drift. Is it possible we could get some more like these? Edited by - CRFlixxx on 4/21/2013 4:54:10 PM
Here's something to think about: Suppose a person is actually arrested for rape and the police would find a whole collection of rape videos in his home/apartment. At his trial I could see some psychiatrist taking the stand and saying that the purchase and constant viewing of such videos was a contributing factor in him acting out his fantasy. Yes, I know he wouldn't have bought the videos unless he already had rape on his mind, but I'm sure the authorities would use such a case to attack the porn industry.
^I'll take that as a compliment.You shouldn't believe everything you read. Take this thread, for example. I can't remember how many times I've read on this forum, or heard people say, that rape and various other simulated and non-simulated acts are illegal to show. But that is simply false. There is no U.S. law that forbids the portayal of rape in pornography or any other media genre. None! If there is, I would love for someone to finally show it to me instead of just saying that it exists. It's one of those things that people just start believing because they hear people say it so often, not because it's actually true.How do you know that? What's to stop a bunch of idiots out there from believing that Monica Belluci was really raped in that Paris subway, just as there are a bunch of idiots out there who believe that anything we see in porn is real? If there are people who can't distinguish fiction from reality, then that's just stupidity on their part. That doesn't make it illegal, or somehow forbidden to produce. Would it be controversial? Yes. But so what? That's one of the problems with porn now. It needs people who aren't afraid of a little controversy by pushing the envelope. Last I checked, there was no law against controversy.
Of course you would. FYI to the original poster, Rob Black and Lizzie Borden were successfully prosecuted for violating federal obscenity laws with Forced Entry and four other movies. His attorneys had disputed that the materials were obscene and argued the laws were unconstitutional. They went to prison for a year.
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realtip Deactivated User
2301 Posts 6/04
Posted - Apr 22 2013 : 5:57AM
^And still you have provided no proof of a law that prohibits these acts from being shown in porn. You also neglect to mention that the case against Rob Black was originally dismissed. So it would appear that his legal counsel actually did a decent job representing him. However, the government appealled the case, and he pled guilty, agreeing to a plea bargain because he had no more money to mount another defense after the first trial. In other words, he didn't go to jail because a judge or jury found him guilty. He went to jail because the government used the strategy of bankrupting him, which kept him from continuing his defense. Had he continued his defense to trial, he may well have been acquitted. Also remember that Larry Flynt and John Stagliano, among others, have also been charged with obscenity, despite the fact that none of their movies portrayed rape. In fact, all of their movies would be considered vanilla compared to those of Rob Black and Max Hardcore. Yet, they were all still charged for the exact same thing. This proves that any pornographer is at possible risk of facing obscenity charges, regardless of what type of porn he produces. If one is not aware of that risk, then we have to wonder what he's doing making porn in the first place. Furthermore, all of these charges were made more than five years ago. The fact that there have been no major obscenity charges instigated within atleast the last five years is an indicator that this has become a less relevant concern, especially given the increased acceptance of porn among the mainstream public. As I said before, porn producers bringing up cases that took place years ago as an excuse for being bland and boring is no different than rappers using 2 Live Crew as an excuse not to use offensive language. And we know those in the latter category don't do that. So why does porn continue to do it?
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hoochimama Deactivated User
1438 Posts 5/10
Posted - Apr 22 2013 : 6:54AM
^Actually in the last year there was one porn director still getting canned on obscenity for alleged beast and shit porn(Ira Isaacs). Is the french mainstream movie "Baise-moi" that aired in theaters and showed its main characters in explicit forced sex scenes illegal in the US? ____________________________ Please ID these PlayboyTV girls https://forum.adultdvdtalk.com/playboytv-foursome-identification-thread/ Edited by - hoochimama on 4/22/2013 6:54:50 AM
I didn't know that,I just reported what is on my DVDI don't know , I'm not a member , I don't usually like BDSM I just picked up this one for Chastity Lynn. I have no Idea of what is on their website just saw some previews
Sorry, but I prefer to think there was something to whatever I read because most of the evidence I've seen proves it to be true. Like I said, it may be the law in certain states, or it might've been avoided to avoid legal hassles later on but until recently in most mainstream porn "rape" or restrained sex wasn't shown (from what I've seen). There might not be a specic law that just speaks specifically to it but it may fall within the verbage of other violations. If there isn't/wasn't a law it's obvious there was something that kept most mainstream porn makers from showing it.How do you know that? What's to stop a bunch of idiots out there from believing that Monica Belluci was really raped in that Paris subway, just as there are a bunch of idiots out there who believe that anything we see in porn is real? If there are people who can't distinguish fiction from reality, then that's just stupidity on their part. That doesn't make it illegal, or somehow forbidden to produce. Would it be controversial? Yes. But so what? That's one of the problems with porn now. It needs people who aren't afraid of a little controversy by pushing the envelope. Last I checked, there was no law against controversy.
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The comparison I speak of is very very obvious. I'm not speaking from a viewer point of view. If for some reason Monica Bellici decided to file charges that she was actually raped during the making of that scene she'd never be able to prove it because there was no actual penetration. On the other hand if a porn actress who shot such a scene it's a much easier charge to prove because there is actual penetration. I know the girl signs releases but she still can say an actual rape happened nd it would be harder to prove that it didn't. I'm not sure of the details but didn't pornstar Olivia have a suit against Max Hardcore for for something like this?
You can argue all you want about the law rhetorically, but the point is the depiction of rape in pornography may trigger a federal obscenity prosecution and conviction. That guilty plea, no matter the basis, made those materials illegal for Rob Black and Lizzy to produce and distribute. This is enough to cause a chilling effect on the production of such scenes which answers the original poster.
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hoochimama Deactivated User
1438 Posts 5/10
Posted - Apr 22 2013 : 12:40PM
But not enough to stop their production. They should just be sold as arthouse movies instead of porn so that they can't be judged by the same crowd. ____________________________ Please ID these PlayboyTV girls https://forum.adultdvdtalk.com/playboytv-foursome-identification-thread/ Edited by - hoochimama on 4/22/2013 12:40:37 PM
I wouldn't call Baise-moi a "mainstream movie". I wouldn't call it porn either. However both the female leads were porn actresses who could act. Not many mainstream actresses (not even European ones) could be persuaded to do some of the things on camera that they were required to do in this movie. According to wikipedia it had a very limited release in the US, with no MPAA classification it was shown only in a few cinemas, mostly arthouse theaters in major cities.
^ In Europe where it was filmed it was a mainstream movie , I'm not sure of this but I think it was even presented in Cannes though out of competition , also it was fully distributed in VHS and then reprinted on DVD , still easily availableActually I don't think so, for example Kink put an interview prior and after the scene , it would be difficult to prove anything with what you state in there. Also in some of the rape scenes in porn you see the actress removing her clothes , spreading her legs wide , find a comfortable position , nodding to the performer during the action. If you check the whole scene you will find dozens of things like this . Max Hardcore on the other hand sometimes went over the edge with unaware actresses what happened with Bunny Luv (one of the scenes who got him jailed) is a perfect example it was her second scene with him but he went so wild she ended crying , for the judge it didn't matter that three days after she left a message on his phone asking for more and that she performed with him regularly (in total she did ten scenes with him until he was arrested) after that one. What mattered was that he went over what was agreed , thus it was considered violence although not a rape , should also be mentioned that Bunny didn't file any claim Unless my informations are outdated this was the story
All that still doesn't make it a "mainstream" movie, it was still an arthouse/independent production. Even in Europe.
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realtip Deactivated User
2301 Posts 6/04
Posted - Apr 22 2013 : 5:55PM
Apples and oranges. Bestiality is explicitly illegal in the United States. There are actually laws against it. The same is not true for fictional rape, which is not at all illegal.It's called fear. Whether it's the fear of igniting controversy and being looked at as the bad guy by everyone who hates your material, or the fear of becoming a larger target by another witch hunt, or the fear of being accused of making porn "look bad" (whatever that means), nobody does it because porn has now become an antiseptic industry that's afraid of offending anyone. It has nothing to do with the law. People can be made to be afraid of doing something even if it's perfectly legal.1.) In either case, evidence would still need to be provided. The occurrence of penetration in itself doesn't prove rape anymore than the lack of penetration disproves a sexual assault. 2.) By your logic, a performer in a porn scene can make rape accusations for any scene that he/she does. It doesn't even have to be a rape scene. To apply your logic, how do you know that performers in plain old vanilla scenes aren't really being raped, and what is there to stop the performers from making accusations in those scenes? No director is safe from such false accusations if a performer decides to make them.It might. But so might anything else. Something as common as a blowjob in porn might trigger that to happen. Porn doesn't have to be extreme in order to be targeted by opponents. Again, Stagliano, Flynt, and others are proof of that.It made them illegal to distribute in the areas where they were deemed obscene. It did not make it illegal for them to produce. As another poster mentioned, this is why some companies do not distribute their content via mail, which has been the basis for every single porn obscenity prosecution, and just stick to the Internet. In each of those cases, had the charged videos not been shipped via mail, then there would have been no basis for prosecuting them.Or just post them online.
