Ramsey wrote: It's heart breaking to read that Laura Roxx has tested HIV positive because it makes you realize she won't be the last I'm afraid. You know, I always thought being a pornstar is the best job in the world, I mean having sex with all these hot girls AND getting paid for it but at this moment I can clearly see the other side of the medal.
valjean4876 wrote: just read it the interview with Laura Roxx on AVN. What a shame. Poor girl. Poor girl. That's horrible. Oh. Damn.
SyberScott wrote: Basically everytime you have unprotected sex especially with strangers, you're playing Russian Roulette! It's an outrage! It's all bad! Watching porn now is totally different for me.
Katja Kassin wrote: I've been following this incident from Germany and I must say that I'm very concerned about it. I'm thinking about my status as an adult actress, about the sex acts that I perform on camera and I even considered to reschedule my next trip to L.A. I always knew there was a risk that adult performers have to live whith but now it became so real out of a sudden.
Seeing how a cream-pie carries more risk of infection than most other sex acts , and how multiple cream-pies are even more risky : I wonder how other talent who've decided to be more cautious view this type of activity . After all , they'll have to work with the same guys and girls that the less risk averse talent do . Does that mean that the risk takers are gambling for everyone ? Will we start to see two increasingly separate pools of performer : the gamblers and the cautious ?
Does HIV generally/mostly become detectable in that time frame ? I must be wrong in thinking that it's not always sufficiently developed to be noticeable that early on .
Two weeks is the time period that some porn companies have said someone has to wait after performing overseas, before they will film them again in Los Angeles. I have no idea if this requirement is actually being followed by anyone or not.
Four weeks was the time period that AIM used back in April/May, to ascertain whether the 13 women who did scenes with Darren James would show whether they became infected or not. If I recall, AIM did additional tests on those 13 women beyond the PCR-DNA test during those 4 weeks, to provide more information on whether someone was infected or not.
I usually bite my tounge(typing finger) quite often when I read your posts, but since you dragged me into a post in which I had not posted, I will try to educate you about my views on the subject, once again.
There is absolutely NOTHING inconsistent or hypocritical about my views on the subject and my quote above.
I would be perfectly happy if all porn from now on was shot with condoms. In fact, it would alleviate many of my fears regarding the risks that many performers take. I enjoy condomless porn more, but I would not stop watching just because of that.
However, I am not for more government regulation. I don't thing it is anyone's business how people have consensual sex with each other, whether money is involved or not.
Of course the performers have a choice. If they don't want to work without condoms, but can't get any work with that stipulation, then they can choose to not do porn. No one is promised the job. Freedom isn't perfect, but it's a whole lot better than any alternative.
Of course, I have explained this over and over at various times on this board. Blah.
My heart goes out to Lara Roxx and all performers who have contracted diseases. But I would never agree to take away their right to take that risk for themselves in the hopes of achieving what they wish.
Aside: I also think it is perfectly reasonable for Arriana to wait for a few weeks or a month before she performs in LA, after her gangbang in Europe.
I don't understand, X-Ray, why you don't like cream pies. There is nothing more sexy than a gooey cum oozing out of a girl's pussy/ass. If you don't like that, maybe there is something wrong with you. I don't know.
valjean4876 wrote: I would be perfectly happy if all porn from now on was shot with condoms. thanks for the statement. I skip the rest for today.
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for a talent it comes basically down to this: You know it's dangerous and there is this HIV risk among some other STDs but you try not to think too much about it when shooting w/o condoms. You can tell Santa Claus a no name girl has a chance to start a sucessful porn career while insisting on condoms right form the start - but not me. Longtime performers using AIM or European laboratories monthly should be your prefered partners at work. In case you life in Europe you know, at least you have an health insurance. You won't see many talents complaining just becoz it is very unwise to do so when you're still active in the biz. You might alienate producers.
More astonishingly for me many performers don't realize the chances a mandatory condom approach has. It's almost as if they would fear condom = no more pornindustry . Hey it works well for some European companies which do so of their own volition. I don't get this fear at all, you can do vaginal/anal sex you can do cumshots, blowjobs, gapes, dps, watersports, fisting whatever. And still there is the option to use real life couples when you work w/o condoms. (like comstock films)
In best case the PCRDNA test can find the antibodies in as early as ten days
- diagnostic gap-
Current search tests can find an HIV infection 6 weeks after contact with a chance of 80%. after the 12th week aprox 100%.
! If you had sex with an HIV+ partner and choose to immediately do a Post-Exposition-Prophylaxy the meds can delay results of PCR DNA tests. Just for the folks who have HIV-PEP at home. (So, yes call me paranoid)
Personally I don't care to know the inner workings of porn and the testing. I trust the industry and performers regulate themselves and realize that my opinion doesn't matter and wouldn't make a difference.
That said I just want to witness Ariana in a great scene. There are so many beautiful women in porn and I've just recently stumbled onto her beautiful face.
Watching her take 65 internal come shots would be an interesting novelty, does anyone (Ariana or otherwise) have any other suggestions? Regular, compilation or interracial. It makes no diffence to me.
The thing I don't understand is the fact that a lot of people are attacking Ariana and Devil's Films now but yet a couple of weeks ago a lot of people were praising Jake Malone for directing this so called great movie Cumfart Cocktails. Not one post in that thread about the danger to health or something like that.
I bet there would be less controversy if Red Light Districted/Platinum X had directed this movie with Ariana instead of Devil's Films.
sorry, but that's just too much ignorance, if this creampie stuff wouldn't sell no one would produce it. You trust in the porn industry, I trust in Mickey Mouse, Nestlé and J.F. Lazartigue hair conditioner.
Pantene Pro V , Ray , Pantene Pro V : it kills those free radicals , stone dead .
If it's an 80% chance of detecting HIV after 6 weeks I wonder what the chances are at 4 weeks . And how low they must fall for only 2 weeks . Guess ostriches aren't the only creatures to bury their heads in the sand .
On a different note : people who looooove their favorite performers enough to pester them into doing risky shit make my brain wink . Just can't get off on anything but cream-pies or 2 dicks tearing a rectum to shreds ? Maybe it's time for a break , don't ya think .
Condoms go on the guy's dick . On the guy's dick . Why are so many nominally straight men so obsessed with what the man's willie looks like ? Seriously , I don't get it . Is there any reason why straight men are so keen to buy condomless porn ? No insinuation . Just an honest quest to expand my boundaries and increase my understanding .
It has nothing to do with what I like, people put themselves and the whole talent pool at unnecessary risks. Even some producers have understood this message and stopped shooting creampies. Since the ones who don't care that much about health of their talents try to capitalize the gap a ban would be appropriate. (even if it's a ban not enforced by gov)
The more talents change their mind to be more cautious the better.
Besides I decide where and when I raise concern about something.
Wow, Ariana, you are the best! As a fellow performer, I salute you for doing whatever you want performance wise. It is girls like you who stretch the boundaries of acceptability, and say f**k it, I am going to do what I like to do. Very refreshing. Hopefully, one day I will get the chance to work with you. Until then, you have a fan for life. :)
Ah crap! I lost my response and it was too long to recreate.
Let me just say that I do care for the performers but it is their responsibility (in conjunction with producers and any associated health organizations) to protect themselves.
I think that's what Ariana is trying to say. That she's trying to take care of the fans (by shooting the scenes she does) while ensuring her own safety.
ramsey, i'm totally in agreement with you regarding lack of objectivity at times. certain studios, performers, politcal ideals are sometimes to good a heuristic for predicting whether something turns into fanboyism, flamewars, or extinguished by lock. nobody is exempt from falling prey to subjectivity, but this was high-risk and i know plenty of talent wasn't aware of the event and might welcome the chance to take a day off if scheduled to work with arianna or someone linked to her during the period before her tests come back negative. this is as good a chance as any for the industry to prove they're not morally bankrupt and generally the fucked-up morons they're portrayed as in most movies and true hollywood stories. if it's business as usual, that's demonstrative of total failure to police a potentially terminal issue within the industry and cal-osha frankly needs to do it for them and some companies shouldn't continue.
Yes, you do which is rather unfortunate. You've raised these concerns long ago. But it appears you are now on a crusade to impose your views on everyone else. At this point it doesn't matter whether you are right or wrong; what matters is that you have derailed (yet another) thread, and I for one am beginning to get sick of your patronizing, wise-ass preaching, especially since you don't even watch porn as you said on several occasions in the past. You have an opinion on things -- fine. WE KNOW IT ALREADY! Maybe you should join some "Christian moms against porn" movement where, I am sure, you can be more productive.
Well, you obviously missunderstood my intentions. 1st I patronize no one. Everyone has a right of mischief (my father used to say) 2nd I'm no wise-ass but a fun-ass, besides I don't preach but like to think I raise consciousness.
Finally I am everything but against porn! I love it $o much that I hate to see in which direction it develops right now. Creampie gangbangs? meath0les? Hate 'n hurt fuck series? No wonder the image of american porn has become so worse some lobbies can jumble a whole industry with a fingersnip.
Did I derail this thread? Yes, a little bit but sometimes it is necessary to bring things across. I hope that answers your questions, ah and before I forget it: Buy Dorcel and Angelmania!
Edited by - x-ray on 10/7/2004 4:49:38 PM
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DIAMOND DOG Deactivated User
"Puff Daddy is crap." - Keith Richards 320 Posts 7/04
Posted - Oct 7 2004 : 5:21PM
My worthless two cents:
I think it's fair to say that most performers, no matter how "sharp" (sorry Skronker, I love reading your posts and they are highly entertaining, but I've got to use your word for Arianna) they are feel that the Laura Roxx/Darren James era may as well have never happened. Sad, really.
Arianna stated that CalOSHA views straight vaginal sex and a 65 guy creampie as one in the same now. True. But it's those circus sex acts that got CalOSHA'S attention. "Vivid Sex" has been around for years, and the only people that seemed to cause a stink over it were 'obscenity' lunatics. If any health officials have fussed in the past, well I never heard about it or it wasn't as big of a mess as this time out.
Test are always better than no tests, that's a give-in. But getting results from a test that clearly has loop holes and timetable constraints for a disease that can lie dormant can only do so much. I have no facts to back what I'm about to say up, but I would guess that the manufactures of these tests really only take into consideration the general public, or people that have sex on a more "normal" basis. Not people participating in a 65 guy creampie.
God only knows where they got 65 guys to perform in this thing. I can count on my hands and feet the reliable male performers that work in the porn industry. And those people are all well known, whether it be good or bad. Word spreads fast in a small industry, and if a girl or guy was to hear about a performer who may use drugs (needles) or partake in other high risk behavior, than they could technically avoid said person if they wanted. They may come in contact with the person through another person, but it certainly is safer than direct contact.
How do you know about the guys in this Creampie? Who are they? Where did they come from? So what if they have tests. Either way you slice it, having 65 strangers cum inside a girl is RIDICULOUSLY HIGH RISK BEHAVIOR.
I don't think condoms should be mandatory, but I do think some discretion should be used. One might argue "Well, it's the girls decision to choose what she wants or doesn't want to do". That's such selfish bullshit it's laughable. If the girl wants to risk her life while having a thrill, then go bungee jumping with a worn cord. When you risk your life, and then come into direct contact with people, which in turn will put their life at risk, you wield a deadly weapon.
Authors Note: I'm only referring to this movie because the conversation is under this topic. I not a big fan of circus sex so I'm not too familiar with CumFart Cocktails. If there was a discussion on the practices contained within that movie, I'd probably be saying the same thing.
I agree, but it's not necessary coz I am not going to engage in flamewars. I wasn't even talking to him when I posted that initial remark. He chose to disagree with me and I asked him additional question. No offense was meant.
BTW ..his attempt to appear insulted is rather amusing.
Edited by - Zoid on 10/7/2004 6:43:27 PM
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Ren Galskap Deactivated User
35 Posts 9/04
Posted - Oct 7 2004 : 7:47PM
Skronker, I wasn't speculating. I was describing a hypothetical situation. The point is not to analyze someone I don't know much about. The point is to describe a slightly different way of looking at the situation. People in porn are investors whose capital is their bodies. They invest their capital, accept certain risks, and get a return. You can't eliminate risk. The point is to be aware of it and manage it.I'm not questioning Ariana's intelligence. I'm not trying to stop her from making porn. I'm not even trying to stop her from doing creampies. If I created that impression, I apologize. The point of describing a hypothetical situation, in which the numbers were obviously not Ariana's numbers, was to avoid putting more pressure on someone who's already under pressure. I don't know what her calculations were, so I can't criticize them.
As Melissa Lauren pointed out, there are people who are grossly underestimating the risk. There are people who think that there's less risk right now becuase an outbreak occurred six months ago. There are people who think that a one-shot PCR-DNA test gives the same protection as a program of regular testing. My goal is to point out the risk, describe some standard ways of managing risk, and let people make their own decisions. You can do creampies in ways that leave you with essentially no protection, or you can take steps that give varying degrees of protection.
Ariana made clear that she took some steps to protect herself. Whether she wants to take further steps in the future to give herself some more protection, or whether she wants to avoid creampies, or whether she wants continue with her current course is entirely up to her. It's not a matter of intelligence. It's a matter of what level of risk she's comfortable with, what she likes to do, and a bunch of other stuff that I'll never know about because I'm not her.
OK, in reply to what this topic started off as -'WOW A 65 GUY CREAMPIE AWESOME' and not what this has turned into - 'blah blah blah' I would like to add the following: I am a freak, but OMG I would love nothing more than to be the 65th guy, however as Ariana thought the actual 65th guy wouldn't want to go down on her, I would bury my tongue sooo deep in her pussy I could tongue her g spot, then I would enjoy the feeling of sliding my member into not only an abnormally beautiful pussy, but an abnormally beautiful pussy so warm from natures finest and thickest lube! The only thing that could make this scenario any better would be if the lovely Ariana was also covered head to toe in the jizz of another 65 dudes. Yes I am sick, but so are you in your own little way I'm sure. Really, how many guys have ever experienced sliding their cock into a pussy that has been filled and lubed up with cum? I am sure it would feel great. It is going to take me a month of watching this movie every day to actually get through this scene as just the thought of it makes me pop!
I was so happy when I heard about that movie that Brittany Skye is in where guys eat out there own creampie, and now this! This fetish seems to be gaining popularity.
kaylanifan, what you're trying to bring across was never questioned. You can participate in a 100 guy creampie if that turns you on. Just don't come back and request to work with more cautious performers within two weeks. Or even worse don't even tell'em and start buisness as regular. I think Ariana did neither so that's not the point. The risk you take is up to you but if you get infected and cause a lot of media attention that leads to prohibitions in the likes of OSHA's overkill regs, than don't be surprised people get upset.
So why the rage about a creampie gangbang, if the female talent can chose the guys out of a regular monthly tested performer pool? Well, besides the fact Diamond Dog adressed that you'll see hard times gathering 65 male talents with a clean slate regarding regular testing over the last 3 month (just in case you actually try to minimize risks), anal creampies are high risk acts, in fact the highest risk sexact we have for HIV transmission. Right now the people behind countless internet only sites follow this trend and shoot creampies with hookers for a couple of dollars all around the clock. How long will it take before something goes wrong? And to which consequences will that lead for the rest of the industry. Faster than you can say 'oh no' and you will witness something that makes 2257 look like a joke.
In these times you have to show the public that you do care, so under this premise a 65guy creampie gangbang rings all the wrong bells for people who observe the LA industry right now.
But some folks never learn, and those who keep quite right now will not be in the position to demand anything once the next strike against the american porn industry hits. With the shutup and shoot, buisness as usual, and fuck it all mentality they bring it on to themselves.
There seem to be some people posting here that think that if ariana was comfortable with the level of risk she took by having 65 guys(not tested at aim, and probably not pcr tested because they were in europe)ejaculate inside of her then we should all just chalk it up to personal choice. She has a right to do whatever she wants to do and we should just accept that. So here's a couple of simple and direct questions to consider. 1.After returning from europe,did you shoot any scenes before getting tested at aim? 2.If you did, did you inform the other people in that shoot about what you had done, and had not yet been tested? 3.what types of tests did the european performers provide you?(HIV[ELISA OR PCR],gonnorea,chlamydia syphillis) 4. how did you verify the tests as being valid?(I'm under the impression that there is no central testing place in europe like there is in the u.s.)
I think my question #2 is the most implortant because its all about the level of risk you are comfortable with. But the people you work with here in the states may not be comfortable with that high of a risk. And anyone who thinks that doing 65 not regularly tested total strangers is not an EXTREME RISK, well then nothing will change those peoples minds.
When you engage in sexual activity with someone they are automatically elevated to your risk level.I love it when this industry talks about companies that require condoms are less at risk than those that don't. But a majority of the time it is the exact same person who does a condom scene for vivid one day and then non condom work the next.
By taking these risks, you put everyone else you work with at the same risk level as you, and you know that there are alot of girls who would never do what arianna did.
Would you knowingly have high risk sex with an IV drug user? I hope not. Would you knowingly have high risk sex with someone who has HIV? I hope not. Would you knowingly have high risk sex with someone who just had 65 guys cum inside her and hasnt been tested? Well if you worked with arianna in the last week you did. (I do not know if arianna has worked or been tested since she got back). IN her posts on this thread she did not say if she did or didnt. But if she did,(and i said IF) then, as ricky ricardo would say "you have alot of explaining to do."
I truely hope she didnt, but then again this is porn valley and having respect for the health and well being of your fellow performers has never really been much of a priority(as long as the check clears) DONT YOU AGREE EVIL DESIRES?
And one final question;Why is this industry trying to make it so easy for the healthcare regulators to effectively end the production of porn in the U.S.? Does anyone think it was a coinsidance that right after the most current hiv outbraek that all of this scrutiny came upon the industry? The powers that be have been waiting for this to happen so they could jump all over it.The last outbreak occured under a different administration. The current administration could not have asked for a better opportunity to regulate this buissness out of exsistence. And unfortunately, the people of porn valley are making it way to easy for them. 65 man creampies, anal gangbang records, 1000 man gangbangs(in poland no less)[i bet their testing protocols for those 1000 men will be very strict]NOT!!
And didnt i see on adultfyi that victoria givens is not requiring pcr tests for all of the 'fan' participants because they're too expensive? $500 in north carolina. I would seriously like to have Ms. Givens take an IQ test.Can you count to ten? Can you spell H.I.V.?
Again I see another thread is becoming more accusatory, Ariana has a personal email address that you can ask her these questions as she doesn't owe me or you a public explanation for any thing she does. If you are unhappy with her for any reason vote with your wallet and not buy her movies. The people she owes any explanation to are her fellow performers and many post here and I haven't seen any big clamor by them publicly towards Ariana to explain anything because it's only the business of those people most intimately involved in the industry and not us.
There's a valid discussion to have, but it seems like some people are fast forwarding to some conclusions, based on almost no information. I sometimes think porn stars can't win for trying: If they are unwilling to do interracial scenes, or anal scenes, or double anal scenes, or swallow cum, or whatever, well, they get dissed by the hardcore crowd. If they try out something that is extreme, then suddenly they are Public Enemy No. 1. The truth is EVERYONE who has sex without condoms on porn sets is at risk. My suspicion is that someone like Ariana, who relies on her health and her body to make a living, is not gonna unduly jeopardize her ability to make a living, or anyone else's.
Edited by - skronker on 10/7/2004 11:32:42 PM
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whooya Deactivated User
33 Posts 10/04
Posted - Oct 7 2004 : 11:40PM
I certainly didnt nean to 'accuse ' anyone of anything here. If you read my post i clearly state that "if" she did any of the things i mentioned she would have some explaining to do. I did not mean that she has to expain it here, in this forum, but she would have ot explain it to the people that she put at risk. And IF SHE DID PUT OTHERS AT RISK, without informing them of what she had done, then that is simply unforgivalbe.
I did not mean for her to answer those questions here, just to consider them in her own mind, and explain her actions to anyone she may have put at risk.Bono, you are correct. She owes explinations only to those directly involved(and that means the entire adult industry in porn valley) It is actions like these (65 guy crampies,anal gangbangs etc,) that are going to make it SIMPLE for the powers that be to regulate this buissness right down the tube.
Everything a porn performer does affects many, many other people, and not just in the porn industry. When the healthcare authorities effectively shut down the u.s. industry, alot of people will be out of work, not just performers.(perhaps even the people who own this very site)
It is a fact that almost every single transmission of hiv in the u.s. porn industry came from the gangbang,multiple partner, internal ejaculation, type of "movie". Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it. Funyy how soon we forget.
I apologize for offending anyone, as i did not mean to accuse anyone of intetionally trying to harm anybody else. But when you take such EXTREME RISK, that does affect of-ther peoples lives, you have to take accountability for your actions.
Thank you bono, i will temper my remarks in the future
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whooya Deactivated User
33 Posts 10/04
Posted - Oct 7 2004 : 11:50PM
to skronker, i know this post may offend some people, as i myself have debated whether or not to actually type it.
Do you think that tt boy unduly jeopordized peoples abilitly to make a living by shootin (untested0 in brazil)
Dou you think that doing double anal scenes with internal pop shots does not jeopordize someones ability to make a living? There are three girls(whose names i wont print) who might think otherwise.
65 man creampies, anal gangbangs, and WORLD RECORED GAGNBANGS( what a joke) jeopordize alot motre than just being able to make a living. they jeopordize just being able to live.
P.S. The next step the government is going to take is to make it illegal to DISTIBUTE porn that was made in violation of FEDERAL osha standards.(not just CAL OSHA). The Department of Health and Human Services (thats a federal agency) is holding meetings the first week of november. hold on to your hats. if you think the state regulators are bad, you aint seen nothing yet. And if Bush is reelcted on november 2, you can rest assured that the porn industry is going to get gangbanged like they never have before.
Edited by - whooya on 10/7/2004 11:51:05 PM
Edited by - whooya on 10/7/2004 11:59:53 PM
Edited by - whooya on 10/8/2004 12:07:24 AM
Edited by - whooya on 10/8/2004 12:10:13 AM
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Ren Galskap Deactivated User
35 Posts 9/04
Posted - Oct 8 2004 : 12:22AM
I was about to make a post about this, and bono-ONE beat me to the punch.
I'm concerned about people's health. I'm not trying to correct their morals. Until I have contrary evidence, I'm going to believe that any performer is an intelligent, normal person trying to work out the ethical issues while making a living. I've tried to bring up some health issues without attacking anyone or questioning their intelligence. If I really thought performers were stupid or unethical, there wouldn't be any point in bringing up the issues. Personal attacks don't stop STDs, and they don't create the cooperation necessary to deal with STDs. The problem is created by human interaction. It can only be solved by human interaction.
At this point, either I've made my point and I don't need to flog it, or I've failed to make my point and reiterating it won't help. So this is my last post in this thread.
It's a shame that I read this topic so late... I would have replied a lot earlier. For every single movie I shoot I always ask my performers to get a complete set of tests, the same I do myself: HIV, Chlamydiae, Ghonorea, Hepatitis B and C, Syphilis. For 50 guys creampie #1 AND #2 I asked all the guys to show up with those tests, I controled myself and I sent back home a few guys or I told by phone a few others to stay at home cause they were not all covered... We could have been up to 80 guys actually... I feel very confortable to be director for a company like Devil's cause they have a way of doing the things I agree with, they are very concerned about the performers. I will never shoot a scene with a girl or a guy taking drugs or being drunk on my set, that's my policy and Devil's policy, they told me many times not to take any guy without those tests (in US we perform with only HIV, Chlamydiae and Ghonorea). I can just imagine that Ariana was a little bit sore after that... But for all the creampie fans, believe me, it's a MUST SEE! Thx again Ariana. Tristan
Yes. I'm one of those people.I will just comment on #2, and you can extrapolate from there.
If someone works in the industry, they full well know that their parter may have recently engaged in VERY risky activity without disclosure. It is so common that if it is not one of the risks one considers, then creampies and STD's are the least of his/her problems.
I have an idea. If you don't want to take that risk, demand condoms. If that isn't feasible, don't do porn. No one is promosed that job.
Tristan, thanks for pointing out that the testing facilities in Europe are up to the standards in America.
@valjean4876 I have an idea too. Mandatory condoms. If you don't want to watch that kind of porn, get another hobby.
It is a fact that during the last few years there was a noticeable movement towards more risky sexacts while the testing standards and health care for talents remained the same. What we need is a movement in the other direction.
Some talents already chose not to do cps anymore so the approach to raise consciousness is at least partly successful. We can address the producers. If the producers can't manage these risks on their own they will be forced sooner or later. That there is no discussion at all how to improve things just speeds this process up. It cannot be right to maximize risks for talents and decline all responsibility when it comes to an infection. If saying "thank you miss" and doing a one time PCRDNA test is enough risk management given the "diagnostic gap" all current tests can't close is left to the reader.
We can address the fans. Yes, we can also try to teach our cats how we wish them to behave. (no not you, Lee )
CAL/OSHA might be going after DEVIL'S FILM next. They made this video after the HIV quarantine and decided to shoot it in Europe. But they still sent an American Actress over there. I think Devil's Film is getting fined like TTBoy. Funny thing is TTBoy use to be partners with Devil's Film. The apple doesnt fall far from the tree.
