Introducing Brandi Swan| Author | Post |
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| skronker Notable Legendary Icon  Scopophiliac 9780 Posts 9/02 |  Posted - Dec 4 2007 : 12:42PMIt's for my Mom, who is not a techie ... needs to super-reliable, and be 100% user-friendly.  [Link] |
| conquistador Deactivated User Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03 | Posted - Dec 4 2007 : 1:09PM I know some people will bash the large computer companies, we have all had different experiences. I mention it because my father has been using Dell note books for years and I have never heard him bitch about them. The website says the starting price is 499.  [Link] |
| conquistador Deactivated User Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03 | Posted - Dec 4 2007 : 1:14PM If she gets something from Dell, for instance the first thing she will want to do is uninstall the OS and reinstall without all the bloat wear crap dell saddles their machines with. Check out Tom's Hardware laptop page as well I had no idea I could get a computer for 150 buck.. [Link] |
| Harri Patel Senior Member #SDNY he's all yours. -- Michael Steele 5110 Posts 3/03 | Posted - Dec 4 2007 : 2:35PM If having the Windows OS isn't really necessary, you might want to check out the Eee laptop [Link] |
| BigBobxxx Senior Member 2681 Posts 5/04 | Posted - Dec 4 2007 : 2:39PM If you can buy a laptop with XP SP2 installed on it (I think Dell does this), you would be better off. With Service Pack 3 for XP being released and big businesses sticking with it, XP is going to be here for a long time. You run a Mac, don't you? Stick with what YOU know... since you will be her IT guy  [Link] |
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| skronker Notable Legendary Icon Scopophiliac 9780 Posts 9/02 | Posted - Dec 4 2007 : 3:19PM [Link] |
| Harri Patel Senior Member #SDNY he's all yours. -- Michael Steele 5110 Posts 3/03 | Posted - Dec 4 2007 : 3:25PM [Link] |
| skronker Notable Legendary Icon Scopophiliac 9780 Posts 9/02 | Posted - Dec 4 2007 : 3:52PM I don't know, she's gonna: surf the Web use email store photos and I'm gonna email her pics and stuff like that ... you think the enhanced video option is worth getting? [Link] |
| RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06 | Posted - Dec 4 2007 : 4:33PM [Link] |
| skronker Notable Legendary Icon Scopophiliac 9780 Posts 9/02 | Posted - Dec 4 2007 : 4:44PM [Link] |
| kukm4 Member so-cal 212 Posts 9/04 | Posted - Dec 4 2007 : 6:05PM [link removed: No link shorterners] Edited by - kukm4 on 12/4/2007 6:09:51 PM [Link] |
| BigBobxxx Senior Member 2681 Posts 5/04 | Posted - Dec 4 2007 : 6:50PM (Although it is clearly significant) Consider this: Editor's Corner Is Vista Destined to be a Desktop-only OS? I love Windows Vista on my desktop computer. It's fast, it's smart, it's pretty. It has the "wow" factor of transparent title bars and the functionality of sidebar gadgets and the added security I want in my business. It was only logical that, after running Vista as my primary OS for well over a year (counting betas), I would want to use the same great OS when I go on the road. So, soon after the consumer release of Vista last January, I went out and bought a Vista laptop. I hate Windows Vista on my laptop. It's slow, it's kludgy, and it's not all that pretty. In order to be able to get anything done at all, I have to turn off Aero, losing all the eye candy. To get acceptable performance, it helps to turn off the sidebar, too. Even then, doing any kind of multi-tasking jams it up. Working with it is a matter of "sit and wait." Oh, I still have the added security. In fact, my Vista laptop is even more secure because a computer you rarely turn on is unlikely to be attacked. I find myself avoiding it, reaching for my old XP laptop instead, when I need a portable, instead of the Vista machine. I've even seriously considered downgrading it to XP - but I bought this system specifically to run Vista. So I keep tweaking, and performance edges up a little, and I convince myself that I can learn to live with it. It would be different if my troubles were the result of installing Vista on some old laptop that was never meant to support it. But I plunked down $2200 for a new Sony TX with Vista Business preinstalled. I loved my little TX that was running XP, but the Upgrade Advisor told me its hardware wasn't compatible with Vista, so I waited for one that was (I thought). My desktop computer that runs Vista so well is admittedly a behemoth. It's a Dell XPS, their top of the line gaming machine (although I don't do games), loaded with 4 GB of RAM and a fast Dual Core processor. It scores a 5.1 on the Windows Experience Index. The Vista laptop scores a 2.0. WEI is a utility that rates a system's performance; you'll find it in the System applet in the Vista Control Panel. A higher score indicates better performance. 5.1 is a very good score. 2.0 is a very lousy score. So why does my laptop that was supposedly made for Vista get such a low rating? Well, the WEI rates individual components but your final score is equal to the lowest rating. With one and a half gigs of RAM, it gets a pretty good 4.2 rating for memory. And the processor gets an acceptable if unimpressive 3.0, while the hard disk performance snags an okay 3.7. The weak link is the graphics performance. That's where the 2.0 comes from. Why did Sony put a graphics card that won't run Aero acceptably into a computer preloaded with a version of Vista that includes Aero? You'll have to ask them. Something I've noticed about people's opinions of Vista is that they seem to be greatly influenced by the power of the computer on which they're running it. And I'm not the only one who's had the disappointing experience of happily running Vista on my desktop system and then being very unhappy with its performance on a laptop. And Sony is by no means the only vendor guilty of selling "Vista" machines that aren't up to the task. Some vendors' low end desktops advertised as Vista capable fall short, too. Portables will probably always lag behind desktops in terms of hardware resources, but vendors shouldn't be selling computers as Vista machines if those computers aren't capable of running the OS properly. I would not have paid over two grand for a Vista laptop if I'd known I was going to hate using it. What can you do? Not much, except to be very careful about buying a Vista laptop right now. Eventually the specs for portables will get better and they'll be able to run Vista with no problem - but unlike with a desktop computer, you can't easily just switch out the video card on a laptop (and doing so would void your warranty). So don't think that just because it seems to be running okay in the store that it'll still perform well once you enable Aero and load it up with programs and try to multi-task. Before you buy, go to the WEI and run it, and if the score is under 3.5, think very seriously about passing on that one. That way, you won't end up pretty much wasting a couple thousand dollars as I did. It could be worse. I still have my almost identical Sony running XP, which works beautifully. And even my little $400 Eee PC, on which I installed XP after getting fed up with the elementary Linux interface it came with, runs faster than the $2200 Vista Sony. So I'm not without a good, usable computer when I go on the road (or just want to read my email while sitting out by the pool). But taking Vista on the road, for now, is a non-starter. And that's a shame. Let us know your experiences with Vista on a laptop. Have you found a portable that runs it well? Or do you run Vista on your desktop and stick with XP on the road? Should hardware vendors be required to ensure that their computers get an acceptable performance score with Vista before selling them with that OS installed? Or should they at least be required to prominently disclose the WEI to customers (such as in online advertisements)? Tell us your opinions at feedback@vistanews.com. And this follow-up: Followup: Vista on Laptops Last week, I discussed the difference between Vista's performance on my high powered desktop computer vs. that of my high dollar Sony laptop, and wondered aloud if Vista is destined to be a desktop-only OS, at least for now. Many of you wrote to share your own experiences with Vista on a laptop. Happily, not all of you are experiencing performance problems with your portables. I was prepared for a deluge of complaints about Vista on laptops, and we certainly got some - but we also received many comments like those of John P.: "I run Vista Business on a Dell Vostro 1500 and I love it. (1.6Ghz Core 2 Duo, 1GB RAM, 128MB NVIDIA 8400 GeForce graphics card.) I run w/ the Aero interface and a full sidebar of gadgets." One thing I noted was that most of those who are happy with Vista on their laptops have pretty powerful machines. For example, Scott T. said, "My current system is a Dell Inspiron 1520 with an Intel Core 2 Duo 2.0GHz processor, 4GB RAM, 256MB NVIDIA Graphics, 120GB SATA 7200 HDD, DVD/RW, Intel Wireless, 15.4" LCD and a 9-cell battery. This system scores a 4.6 on the WEI. I am running Vista Business with Office 2007 Enterprise, along with a host of other applications. The Aero experience performs satisfyingly well and I have not been disappointed." Luis S. offered: "I upgraded from XP pro to Vista Business the first week it came out. At first, it was very sluggish and I wanted to go back, but I stuck to it. The score card on this thing was 4.5 on everything expect the graphics card, which came out to a 3.2. After waiting patiently for new drivers, I gotta say I'm now very pleased. It actually boots faster and runs programs faster than my Dell desktop PC with XP pro on it." On the other hand, some of you felt like Kelly P., who said, "Vista sucks. Plain and simple. I bought a Vista laptop back in April. An HP Pavilion tx1120us with 2GB of RAM, Vista Home Premium. It stinks ... Files copy slowly. Power management is a joke. I can watch the battery drain even with the display almost turned off and nothing running ... I see that Dell is offering Inspiron 1520 laptops with XP again. I bought one. Now, all the stuff that wasn't working on the Vista machine works flawlessly." All in all, though, I was pleased to hear that so many of you do have Vista running well on your laptops. It gives me hope. Meanwhile, I'm enjoying my little Eee PC on which I installed XP. Just upgraded the 512 MB of RAM it came with to 2 GB (for $57) and now it's the fastest laptop I own. See photos on my tech blog at http://www.vistanews.com/347ZRJ/071129-Eee-PC-Pics And thanks to all who wrote! [Link] |
morbidthoughts  All-Star Member Big cats scare me but... 3627 Posts 1/03 | Posted - Dec 4 2007 : 8:01PM If the main tech specs be equal like processor, RAM, graphics, then of course it doesn't matter. However the main flaw with the guy's notebook was that it sounded like the sony had a built in graphics chip. Which forces the computer to share the RAM (I guess around 512MB). So he was comparing a 4GB RAM desktop to a 1GB RAM notebook. Vista needs around 2GB of RAM to run smoothly. [Link] |
| BigBobxxx Senior Member 2681 Posts 5/04 | Posted - Dec 4 2007 : 8:10PM I do not believe you can buy a "user-friendly" PC laptop running Windows Vista for "under $600." Of course, you can add memory (easy) and upgrade the video card ("maybe"; and, in any event, not a consumer friendly job on a laptop). Once you do these things, you also no longer have a "$600" laptop. So, at the risk of repeating myself, buy a PC laptop running Windows XP SP2 (and add another 1 GB of memory to it for about $50... on sale at one of the big-box stores nearly every week). [ invalid url ] [Link] |
| morbidthoughts All-Star Member Big cats scare me but... 3627 Posts 1/03 | Posted - Dec 4 2007 : 8:22PM [Link] |
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| BigBobxxx Senior Member 2681 Posts 5/04 | Posted - Dec 4 2007 : 8:28PM Read the topic of this thread. Read my post immediately before this one. No one -- especially me -- is disputing the importance of RAM and a superior graphics card. Why would I post the articles I did? Maybe to present intelligent information rgarding the whole "Vista on a laptop" issue? The articles made many other points as well. One of which is, just because a laptop claims to be a Vista machine, does not mean it will produce satisfying results -- even on a $2,200 Sony. There's a lot more to it. [Link] |
| Harri Patel Senior Member #SDNY he's all yours. -- Michael Steele 5110 Posts 3/03 | Posted - Dec 4 2007 : 9:18PM The author doesn't even say what kind of graphics his Sony has, but if the WEI score for it is only 2.0, it isn't surprising that Vista doesn't work very well on it. From Googling around, it appears that the integrated graphics on the subject Dell machine would score a 3.5 with the latest driver. Also, the subject machine comes with Vista Home Basic, which doesn't even include the graphics-intensive Aero effects. For tasks like web surfing, e-mail, and photo storage, this machine should be fine. [Link] |
| skronker Notable Legendary Icon Scopophiliac 9780 Posts 9/02 | Posted - Dec 4 2007 : 11:39PM [Link] |
| BigBobxxx Senior Member 2681 Posts 5/04 | Posted - Dec 5 2007 : 12:28AM The entire first article dealt with this issue. ALL of us -- the author, you, even me -- know that adding RAM and upgrading a video card will improve a computer's performance. Give me a break. If you read all my posts in this thread, it is obvious that I am warning about buying a "$600" laptop and expecting it to run Vista in a "100% user-friendly" manner for someone's mom. Maybe "Mom" can hunt around for Vista drivers that work while she's at it :) Other than adding memory, there is nothing easy (or inexpensive) about upgrading a laptop computer. Laptops are still not at parity with desktops. Of course, you can pay a lot of money for high-end laptops that will equal, if not exceed, most desktops. But, when comparing the two at comparable price points -- especially at "$600" -- laptops do not equal or perform as well as desktops (and that includes running Windows Vista). [Link] |
| skronker Notable Legendary Icon Scopophiliac 9780 Posts 9/02 | Posted - Dec 5 2007 : 2:18AM [Link] |
| Harri Patel Senior Member #SDNY he's all yours. -- Michael Steele 5110 Posts 3/03 | Posted - Dec 5 2007 : 2:34AM |
| BigBobxxx Senior Member 2681 Posts 5/04 | Posted - Dec 5 2007 : 11:00AM I'd stick with the XP Home Edition (standard in the base price). (Note the items I've highlighted in bold) One important point here is that there is no pre-installed security software, and that I deliberately did not add it in (extra charges) as I hate McAfee and Norton. I would get AVG free-edition (anti-virus) and CounterSpy (malware/spyware and the firewall) and install them myself. Dell Vostro 1500 ($628 as I would configure it) My System Details PROCESSOR Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T5270 (1.4GHz/800Mhz FSB/2MB cache) OPERATING SYSTEM Genuine Windows® XP Home Edition LCD PANEL 15.4 inch Wide Screen XGA LCD Display with TrueLife™ MEMORY 2GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz, 2 DIMM HARD DRIVE 120GB 5400RPM Hard Drive OPTICAL DRIVE 8X CD/DVD Burner w/ double-layer DVD+R write capability, w/ Roxio Creator VIDEO CARD Intel® Integrated Graphics Media Accelerator X3100 MEDIA DIRECT Dell Exclusive MediaDirect™ Instant Play Software Application WI-FI WIRELESS CARD Dell Wireless 1390 802.11g Wi-Fi Mini Card WEBCAM No Webcam Option My Accessories BATTERIES 85 WHr 9-cell Lithium Ion Primary Battery My Software PRODUCTIVITY Microsoft® Works 8.5 Does NOT Include MS Word SECURITY No Pre-installed Anti-Virus/Security Software ADOBE SOFTWARE Adobe® Acrobat® Reader My Services & Warranties WARRANTY & SERVICE 1 Year On-Site Service, Parts + Labor, 24x7 Phone Support DELL DATASAFE™ ONLINE BACKUP 10GB for 1 Year Online Data Backup by Dell DataSafe STANDARD VOSTRO SERVICES TOOLS 1 Year Dell Automated PC Tuneup DELL NETWORK ASSISTANT Dell Network Assistant ON-SITE SYSTEM SETUP No Onsite System Setup PURCHASE INTENT Purchase is not intended for resale. ALSO INCLUDED WITH YOUR SYSTEM SOUND OPTION High Definition Audio 2.0 Integrated NIC and Modem Integrated 10/100 Network Card and Modem Labels Windows XP™ Processor Branding Intel Core 2 Duo Processor [Link] |
| AlexPanzer Deactivated User 1593 Posts 6/03 | Posted - Dec 6 2007 : 12:39AM If I was to buy a laptop for my tech-un-savvy dad then Vostro 1000 would be just the device for him. And in like 2 years he could upgrade the memory if he needed to do so. [Link] |
| AlexPanzer Deactivated User 1593 Posts 6/03 | Posted - Dec 6 2007 : 12:42AM [Link] |
| AlexPanzer Deactivated User 1593 Posts 6/03 | Posted - Dec 6 2007 : 12:46AM [Link] |
| skronker Notable Legendary Icon Scopophiliac 9780 Posts 9/02 | Posted - Dec 6 2007 : 12:57AM I'll keep an eye on those one-day sales, too .... thanks again this was very helpful. Edited by - skronker on 12/6/2007 1:36:28 AM [Link] |
| BigBobxxx Senior Member 2681 Posts 5/04 | Posted - Dec 6 2007 : 9:08AM Stick with the 1500 :) [Link] |
| skronker Notable Legendary Icon Scopophiliac 9780 Posts 9/02 | Posted - Dec 6 2007 : 11:13AM [Link] |
| RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06 | Posted - Dec 6 2007 : 6:07PM [Link] |
| BigBobxxx Senior Member 2681 Posts 5/04 | Posted - Dec 6 2007 : 6:49PM When I got it two years ago, it came with 512 MB of RAM (2 x 256). It worked. A few months ago I added 1 GB of RAM, and it now zooms along as well as my desktops (including an Athlon 64). So, after setting aside 128 MB of RAM for the shared video memory, I'm effectively using 1.12 GB of RAM (1 GB + 256 MB less 128 MB for video = 1.12 GB). I have thought about going all-the-way to 2 GB, but it's just not worth it to me to open the machine up to go after the internal memory socket (especially since it effortlessly handles everything now). Coming back to Skronker running XP SP2 on a new Vostro 1500 with an Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T5270 (1.4GHz/800Mhz FSB/2MB cache) with 2 GB of shared memory, it ought to smoke! [Link] |
| skronker Notable Legendary Icon Scopophiliac 9780 Posts 9/02 | Posted - Dec 6 2007 : 7:01PM I'm not sure if I get the tech support added if it will be worth it since my mom gets lost immediately with the most basic conversation about this stuff ... But might be good for backup. [Link] |
| skronker Notable Legendary Icon Scopophiliac 9780 Posts 9/02 | Posted - Dec 6 2007 : 8:54PM HP ... comes with some free/cheap upgrades ... seems kinda comparable ... any thoughts? Edited by - skronker on 12/6/2007 8:55:47 PM [Link] |
| morbidthoughts All-Star Member Big cats scare me but... 3627 Posts 1/03 | Posted - Dec 6 2007 : 10:00PM [Link] |
| Harri Patel Senior Member #SDNY he's all yours. -- Michael Steele 5110 Posts 3/03 | Posted - Dec 6 2007 : 11:06PM [Link] |
| skronker Notable Legendary Icon Scopophiliac 9780 Posts 9/02 | Posted - Dec 6 2007 : 11:28PM [Link] |
| AlexPanzer Deactivated User 1593 Posts 6/03 | Posted - Dec 7 2007 : 7:27AM You can get the laptop (Vostro 1000) for $500 and use the rest $100 for...PORN! [Link] |
| BigBobxxx Senior Member 2681 Posts 5/04 | Posted - Dec 7 2007 : 9:36AM I really think Harri nailed it when he proposed the Vostro 1500. (And, as you know, I strongly favor running XP) Choosing the Vostro 1500 over the Vostro 1000 should, IMHO, be a no-brainer: (using my $628 configuration) 2 GB RAM vs. 512 MB 120 GB hard drive vs. 60 GB 85 WHr 9-cell battery vs. 29 WHr 4-cell [Link] |
| skronker Notable Legendary Icon Scopophiliac 9780 Posts 9/02 | Posted - Dec 7 2007 : 11:44AM She walked in unexpectedly once when I was showing my Dad a gang bang video ... hahahaha ... She got super-pissed! I'm gonna print out the Vostro 1500 web page and mail it to her ... I have a feeling she's just gonna go buy something at a store regardless of my suggestions, and probably not get total value for her funds (which, ultimately, my Dad and I are buying it for a Christmas gift ...) But I hope I can get her to go for something w/good value ... What she wants to do is buy a $500 laptop from Staples. That was her plan. But this looks like a great deal. If only she'd taken a Mac class at the senior center, all this trouble could be avoided. I could get her a nice MacBook 13.3 off of Craig's List for the same price! lol I'm a super-Mac devotee. Can't staaaaaaand Windows! Just the Word program ... [Link] |
| AlexPanzer Deactivated User 1593 Posts 6/03 | Posted - Dec 8 2007 : 1:45AM [Link] |
| skronker Notable Legendary Icon Scopophiliac 9780 Posts 9/02 | Posted - Dec 8 2007 : 2:25AM [Link] |
| cobalt60 Knuckle Dragger 2046 Posts 2/03 | Posted - Dec 8 2007 : 6:49PM In my 15 years of I.T. experience, I've learned one thing if I've learned anything - people are going to listen to you yammer for about two words, and then they're going to go buy the cheapest thing they find at Staples. Just for the record, Vista sucks black holes. [Link] |
| skronker Notable Legendary Icon Scopophiliac 9780 Posts 9/02 | Posted - Dec 8 2007 : 11:23PM [Link] |
| cobalt60 Knuckle Dragger 2046 Posts 2/03 | Posted - Dec 9 2007 : 8:38PM [Link] |
| Harri Patel Senior Member #SDNY he's all yours. -- Michael Steele 5110 Posts 3/03 | Posted - Jan 13 2008 : 6:46PM [Link] |
| AlexPanzer Deactivated User 1593 Posts 6/03 | Posted - Jan 15 2008 : 12:57AM I used to work at Staples as a BM (selling business machines and technology items) and no matter how well you try to explain why the more expensive computers are better, people still will buy the most cheapest one. Once I convinced some Russian woman to spend around $3,000(it was $2,7xx) for a computer for her college work. I kinda felt bad for her that she fell for my advice, but I scored 100% on the company's selling guideline. I later found out that she went to the same college that I went to and then pretended that I don't know her, because I knew that I tricked her into buying something that she did not need. [Link] |
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