Given that there are only two basic "types" in your system, I would vote for switching them to type 0. Thanks for asking!

P.S. -- I just noted that your post was made in the GayDVDTalk forum. Because I consider myself a straight guy (although self-labeling is not a high priority for me), let me ask this: Were you not seeking responses from guys who do not normally post in this particular forum?

Edited by - Bob on 5/5/2003 2:05:33 PM

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I defer to billyjizz and JB69 (see below). They make good points, and I really have no strong preference either way.

<edited because subsequent responders have given very good arguments, plus I had a typo in my initial response>

Edited by - dano on 5/6/2003 10:29:44 AM

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I'm not really sure who the intended market is for bi porn. I suppose it is the gay-curious men, straight-curious gay men (is there such a thing?) and open minded women.

I suppose since tranny porn is in the straight section, and bi porn isn't very far from tranny porn, maybe the bi stuff should go into the straight section too?

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There is indead straight-curious gay men (and women) and I have met a few recently at the Billy DeFrank Center here in SJ.

Sorry to go off topic.

Edited by - RobHammer on 5/5/2003 6:48:05 PM

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I also say thanks for asking for our opinions. I very much appreciate your doing so.

The lumping of everything not strictly hetero into what amounts to a “gay/other” category makes some sense, based on the discussion in the cited thread (and my own life of observations)—the point being that gays are more tolerant of, shall we say, “alternative sexual behaviors” (that is, alternative to what is usual for whoever is doing the watching) than men who buy straight porn. I think, based on my and my friends’ experiences (and I will admit that this might not be fully representative) that the vast majority of gay men have little or no interest in bi material other than as a curiosity. I suspect, for reasons of cultural correctness, that there are far more gay men who label themselves as bi than actually are. But that’s off the point I guess. The option of having a third category (which you intimate might be a project for another day) really isn’t a good solution either. As dano’s comment suggests, you then get into the question of how many bi scenes in a video would qualify it for the bi category. One out of four, when the rest are man to man? Two out of five?? Personally, I have zero, nada, zilch interest in seeing anything bi. It’s not antipathy; just complete and total uninterested-ness. I feel (and I daresay most of my gay friends would agree) that we make enough compromises with the hetero world every day. If the “actual market” (as Tina Tyler puts it) includes straight women, bi- curious men and open minded couples, let them do some of the work searching for what they want rather than put it on me to weed out the stuff that I don’t want. I’m tired of having to do all the compromising. Bottom line—I strongly prefer that the gay category be just that and only that. Switch them to 0. But would I jump off a bridge if it were not so? No. I’m perfectly capable of reading reviews, liner notes, etc., to find what I want to buy or rent. That’s one reason why this site is so good—it provides just the kind of info I need to make educated choices in porn.

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Idealistically a bi forum sounds good but...

The sex talk forum is the place to talk about any sex or sexuality issue for any orientation. It gives everyone a better perspective in general.

There really isn't that many quality movies in the bisexual genre to have a lasting discussion thread. My latest ADT search turned up 183 titles. Even the shining stars in this genre pale when compared to what's being made elsewhere.

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I understand that you currently divide the database into two broad classifications consisting of generic straight (which appears to include TV/CD/she-male and lesbian) and generic gay (which includes bisexual) and I understand why - these being the broad classifications derived from the industry itself.

I also agree with RobHammer, SueR, Tina Tyler, and others that the primary market for bisexual videos is not gay men. Some gay men seem to go through a phase early in their porn-renting/purchasing career where they seem to think that the various porn sellers (i.e., clerks, order-takers, etc.) will think less badly of them if they are perusing the bi titles. After all, there are still boobs on the cover. Heading for the gay titles is a tremendous emotional step. And, actually, having the bi titles mixed in with the gay ones eases the pain - or, at least, it makes picking up a gay title accidentally that much easier.

And, regardless of how they are classified, the straights who are interested in bisexual titles still seem to find them; so, in that respect, it really doesn't matter.

Based on this, there are arguments for leaving bisexual titles where they are for the time being - at least until you manage a major overhaul of the database. Why upset the apple cart?

My question is this: What happens to the database if you put a value other than either "0" or "1" in the gay/straight field? (Or, is it a logical, true/false field rather than an integer field?)

Given: 0=straight, 1=gay, 2=lesbian, 3=bisexual, 4=TV/CD/she-male, 5=fetish

If, currently, "0" represents straight titles and "1" represents gay titles and if "3" titles are handled by the current database routines in the same way that any non-"0" (meaning "1") title is handled, then you can begin differentiating the bisexual titles now, by marking them with a "3" and they will still show up in the broadly defined gay category. Then, later, when some of the database routines are revised, the bisexual titles will already be marked.

Just a thought....

~ GaySatyr

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Also Steph, I don't think you need to change your 1 and 0 system because there's not enough bi-titles to warrant it. Plus, customers who are truly pornographically bi (buying MM, FF and MF porn) are looking in both sections already. [Shout out to my main man Chillin--Bi's in tha hizouse!] And there really are only two major pornographic categories: gazing at women and gazing at men. As we're seeing in this discussion, anything that attracts the women-gazers (shemales and bi) is going to be taken over by the het consumers.

Regarding reputable het companies making bi pics: let's not forget about Private Man. Private is (arguably) the best het porn company in the world, and they have an all-male wing. Let's not forget about Filmco, whose "sistahgirl" company is Bacchus, lowering the standard for porn of all orientations. Speaking of low standards, let's mention everyone's favorite avatar of weak-ass porn: Leisure Time, willing to make a compilation of any kind of sexual act between any kind of people. Pleasure also makes MM porn. Caballero, Channel 69, Vivid, Devil's, Extreme, Metro, Odyssey, Sin City...all make all-male. I'm sure there's more that I don't even know about. Porn companies making both gay and straight (and bi) porn is not a weird thing. It's happening right now.

Companies who don't have an all-male wing have their own reasons, which they can individually be asked about here. For example, at Evil we know that the Trish is willing but the Free Time is weak. And the way that company seems to work, I'd bet $20 (big money for a Ramen-eating grad student like me!) that if one of the directors told JS that he/she was going to make a bi or all-male video, JS would support them and distribute it with gusto. JS seems to believe in his directors filming what they're passionate about, so if Leslie said "Fuck it! I'm old and don't care who knows that I like the big dick!", JS would be with him.

I disagree with GaySatyr's assessment of the gay guy getting the bi video in the gay section. If he's worried about what other people think, why is he in the gay section? Wouldn't he feel more comfortable finding bi stuff on the het shelves? And wouldn't you think porn clerks are jaded about "accidents"? They hear excuses daily..."Bachelor Party"..."It's a gag gift"..."I just sell 'em to my weed customers"...yaddayadda. Anyone who's this jumpy would probably go the internet route anyway, or not buy porn at all.

Now let's really fuck up this conversation and talk about porn for lesbians...

SueR
"We'd worry less about what everyone thought of us if we knew how little they did."

Edited by - SueR on 5/12/2003 4:58:38 AM

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i think we will switch bi to type=0 which encompasses everything but gay titles.

it's really not that big a deal. the gay titles are all on adt. adt includes everything. it's just an issue of highlighting reviews. i don't want the bi ones to get lost.

thanks again!

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