Got it.

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Good male performers are difficult to find. Girls who perform poorly over time have to readjust their attitude or they won't survive long in this industry. After talking to the agency, Brooke is determined to give me a great scene to prove herself as a good performer after the last fiasco. Let's hope it's true.

Chico

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May I come along too and have her do the same for me? Hell I don't think she's a good performer but I wouldn't kick her outta my bed... well maybe if she decided NOT to lick the balls

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Actually, nevermind. I still am.

Chico: good luck on the new shoot with Brooke. I don't really think she is that hot anyway (not my taste) but obviously some do and if you manage to get a great scene out of her then a lot of people will be happy.

Kelly

"Can I finish? Can I FINISH? ... Okay, I'm done."

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That doesn't mean I'm bringing some derelict off the street onto my set. But anybody who knows me can hang out on my set and get their dick sucked for all I care.

Chico

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I really don’t have a problem with what you did after your first shoot with Brooke, nor do I have a problem with what Vince did. In both cases, neither you nor Vince had any reason to believe that Brooke was going to be a royal pain in the ass and not allow you to get a good scene from her. You both had a right to be angry when she acted like an asshole.

However, other than her agent telling you that things will be different this time, you have no reason to believe that you will get anything different from her than you did last time. What else is her agent going to say, “She’s going to be the same whiney bitch that she always is”?

Even if she has changed and is willing to do everything that you ask of her, do you really think that you will get a good scene? Being willing to do something and enthusiastically wanting to do something are two very different things. That what makes Ariana Jollee a great performer and will prevent Brooke from ever being more than a mediocre performer. Ariana does what things in a scene because she enjoys doing it. At best, Brooke does something because it’s her job to do it. It’s no different than if she were cleaning toilets for a living. Fucking on video is never something that she is going to like doing. The most anyone can expect is that she will tolerate it.

You said, “If I get a good scene out of her, no one will be more pleased than I”. But do you have any reason to believe that there is any chance at all of getting a good scene out of her? I think that the best possible scene that you can get out of her will be an unenthusiastic sleepwalk through a variety of different positions with no complaining. What the hell are you going to do with a scene like that? You may as well put a condom on the guy that sell the scene to Vivid.

Given that there’s no way in the world that you will ever get an “Anabolic/Diabolic quality” scene out of her, the only thing left is the possibility of you getting “great Internet content” (your words, not mine) out of the scene. Personally, I don’t consider seeing someone complaining about doing something that they don’t want to do “great Internet content”. As you said in an earlier post her, doing so is just “mean spirited” and claim to have “made an exception for Brooke” the first time that you shot her. IMO, making the same exception for her a second time is more than “mean spirited”, it’s just cruel.

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there is a reason that it is called the ADULT industry & not the PETULANT CHILD industry.

"i'm into Family, Friends, Food & Fuckin."
- wanda coleman

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Uncle Vinny

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Your formula works. I wouldn't change a thing.

I'm requesting longer BTS footage on your DVDs.

It's kinda like reality TV for Porn

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Vince

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Thanks

Vince

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-T.C.

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Yes Teagan is a hottie! Haven't seen her
in action yet but she has some great
potential.

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If you talked to her, maybe there's a chance that things will be different. But if you only talked to her agent, and it's him who's assuring you that it will be different this time - well, to me that doesn't sound so good. I mean, the agent is in this to get bookings for his actresses, so he can get his fee. What are the chances that he's going to talk you out of booking her? Besides, it's too easy for the agent to tell you whatever it is you want to hear; he's not the one who's going to do the scene.

I hope you're not wasting your time on all this, but it's your dime, so you do what you want with it.

Keep in mind, we porn fans know a lame ass scene when we see it. It's amazing to me that these are always the 2nd, 3rd or 4th scene, never the first or the last of a DVD. We're not that easy to fool; we can recognize second-rate filler when we're see it. The problem is, we have to pay for the privilege to do so.

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Glad you hooked up on ADT! Love your work, always top noch stuff. As for the BTS, I agree with you 100%!

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http://tour.frankwank.com/trailers/brooke.wmv

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Welcome Vince.

I'm the unfortunate fool who started this whole thread. I truly didn't anticipate the ethical arguments that would spring from it.

Around here, I am specifically the "taylor st. claire fanboy." As such, it's taking some restraint on my part not to say something like, "Taylor's tits are so much better than Brooke's" or "you should try and cast Taylor if she comes out of retirement." (Actually, now that I think about it I just said what I said I didn't want to say.) But on a much larger scale I am a flat out movie geek, studying film at some college. So, like you my favorite parts of DVDs often do end up being the behind the scenes stuff. I'm one of those people who actually does watch those things and many people really don't. So, I appreciate your bts footage. I will admit though that sometimes I see some stuff I don't like, like the treatment of a girl or something. But I guess I have to keep reminding myself with things like that that we are seeing it out of context. We were not there on the set. If Vince is being mean to this girl who we thought was real hot and turned in a good scene and don't know why he is being mean to her it's because we weren't there. However, I have to say that I really could have gone without seeing Britney Madison's..er..accident in "From Her Ass to Her Mouth." That's one reality I didn't want to be exposed to, though it did explain why her scene partner (Jamie Brooks) was so squeamish at times.

Kelly

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"From Her Ass to Her Mouth"-
I can't remember who but one of our great reviewers gave their two cents on this one. In their review, they mentioned something like, "Vince is wise enough to cut away at just the right moment." That describes the "accident" best. He cuts away and you don't see much but you can pretty well tell what happened.

I wish I hadn't

Kelly

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With the Frank Wank clip, it's funny when he says "You can make some noise, ya know. You can pretend you're actually enjoying yourself"... hehe funny shit.

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The ladies are there to perform and enhance your fantasy. Leave it at that and don't obsess over whether they are "being treated right". Do you honestly think they care that much about YOU? Why put them up on a pedastal?

I'm not saying that obvious mental/physical abuse is acceptable. But the thing in VV was harmless. The original poster is just being a bit too dramatic. You think a little argument is gonna shatter this girl for life? Maybe she really is a bitch. If you met her in real life away from any porn context, what's to guarantee she would be cordial with you?

In closing, I'd like to say that I am a bit conflicted on whether or not I like "Behind the Scenes" footage. Often it breaks the fantasy. I'm sure that most of us are NOT naive and we don't beleive that most women (even the girls in the videos) are such wild, uninhibited sex creatures. But it is appealing to suspend belief just for these little moments. If a Behind the Scenes bit shatters this illusion, better to leave it out. Vince Vouyer should have cut the Brooke scene alltogether.

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I have nothing to add on the Brooke front that hasn't been said at least twice. But I'm surprised no one has commented on the outtake of Jade's tirade in the same movie. "I am a fucking actress! I do big fucking things! ... I'm not a fucking whore, like these fucking lame-headed bitches in this fucking industry... I'm a fucking Leo." Wow, that was something. Pretty goddamn entertaining is one thing it was.

I definitely consider it added value to a DVD. Behind the scenes footage can be the difference between a rental and a sale for me. And while I might draw a line if footage might really make a person feel bad, I don't think this stuff crosses it -- and it's not unique to porn. One of my favorite parts of the BTS documentary for "Open Range" was Kevin Costner ripping the shit out of a guy he was trying to get financing from. Good stuff.

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It's not possible to have seen EVERY new girl to the business in a previous scene before you shoot her, so it is very possible that a director could hire a lame-fuck girl without being aware.

On the other hand, IF another hypothetical girl was on all other levels totally shootable, but in the middle of a scene said some off-the-wall oddball thing they wouldn't do (for example, touch their own pussy - just trying to say something that seems like an obvious thing to do), it takes a good director to know how to do deal with it and still try to get the best scene possible.
Massage the girl's ego a little. Ask her why she won't do it. See if there's a way to explain it calmly that may make her want to do something similar to what you want.

If you can't get her to do the one thing, evaluate how important that ONE thing is to the video scene. If it's not a BJ scene, and if the ONE thing the girl wouldn't do was lick balls, is it really all that important? Or is it more a problem of the guy not being able to get wood without a girl licking his balls? In that case, we would getting into a whole different explanation here.

Final scenerio: it's a scene for a facial movie... and the girl says before the cumshot that she gets freaked out by cum and doesn't want you to hit her face with the cum. Do you
a) yell and scream at her, or do you
b) say, what do you think you were here to do? Is there ANYTHING you will be happy to do? If not, then I'm afraid we will have to stop this scene without payment. I'm sorry.

Anyway, long story short:
this situation could have been handled differently by the director, no matter what the details were.

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(responding to comments Den made about the Jade altercation in his review of the title at www.cavr.com)
"Also, I read your review and you also cited the incident in the bts involving Jade Hsu. All I can say in response to that is: Did you listen to what Jade was saying? "I am not a slut. I am not a bitch. I am not a whore. I am an actress. I am filming [such and such] movie and it will be out in a year and then you won't be seeing me in no porno movies" First of all, clearly she does not like the degredation some porn guys shower upon the girls. That's fine. However, she is also quite clearly diluted in relation to her profession. (NO, I am not saying all pornstars are bitches and sluts). And she has all ready developed one massive reputation for being a bitch on wheels. Super Talent Scout Peter Romero, who has been with oh so many girls, recently called her the bitchiest girl he had ever scouted. So, like Brooke, one has to wonder why Jade is even in porn.

Tricia-
Thank you for your insightful post. It brought a whole new perspective to the issue for me. (makes me even re-think what I said about Jade earlier and pasted above just now)

Kelly

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What Brooke should of said was,hey Vince lick my pussy and than I will lick your balls, enough said.

Dion Giarrusso
Retired

P.S. I have way too much free time.

Edited by - dion on 2/26/2004 1:26:41 AM

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DenverDon

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I really hope I put it in a video. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

I may put it as DVD Extras for Un-Natural Sex #12. It's not precisely an all anal scene (she doesn't do anal) but you all will see what a girl agrees to do beforehand and what she actually does.

I'll have her hold huge cardboard posters with the statements "I WILL PERFORM 5 POSITIONS", "I WILL AT LEAST PRETEND I ENJOY FUCKING", "I'M IN THIS BUSINESS CAUSE I REALLY LIKE TO FUCK", "I WILL SUCK BALLS WHILE BLOWING A DICK", "I WILL TAKE A BALL SNOT BLAST IN THE FACE" and I will have her initial each card.

That should leave no excuse for the scene itself.

Chico

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This almost sounds the cheap version of the old silent movie practice of using title cards. Could you imagine silent porn films? (actually, film pretty much started as porn...peep shows...but's another story) Everyone in those films had to overact because they had not the advantage of sound. So, what would porn girls do in that situation?

Beside all that, I'm sure everyone is interested for various different reasons to hear how this comes out.

Kelly

Edited by - tscfan317 on 2/26/2004 7:57:16 AM

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We ought to have a thread devoted to all the things Mr. Vouyer won't do on film. Like, will he take a finger up his own ass, will he kiss a girl's face right after he's cum all over her, will he let a girl slap him hard, stuff like that.

Curious minds want to know!

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Ah Ha, I figured there was a catch! This only counts partway towards Mr. Vouyer showing what a sexual adventurer he is, if the above info about a relationship between him and Jill Kelly is true.

Personally, I'd like to see Monique, the black porn actress, take a strap-on to Uncle Vinny. I'd pay good money to see this.

If I heard a director like Rocco Siffredi, Tom Byron or Steve Holmes complain about what actresses will or won't do, I wouldn't mind, because these three have gone plenty far in their own porn appearences, farther than the average porn guy goes. But to listen to some director who's an anal virgin himself bitch and moan about an actress not doing this or that, is just too much.

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Whatever happened in the past don't mean shit. Brooke was warned heavily by her agents about my intolerance for disruptive behavior. And she was determined to prove me wrong.

If she keeps up this behavior, she could end up being one hell of a pornstar. If only she added anal to her arsenal. I'll clue you in more tomorrow when I add clips to the web.

Chico

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Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa here Chico. Brooke has all ready come this far. Let's not start trying to work miracles here and get her into anal. This corner she has apparently turned seems like a small miracle itself.

Only slightly serious.

Kelly

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Thanks for the update too!

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Still, Chico, congrats on getting a good scene out of her, considering all we've heard.

cheers,

scipio

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Like others said, she needs to open up her 2-hole (anal)
& swallow cum on a consistent basis to win us hardcore
fans over.

Damn her bOObs are Huge & Great-looking but
when did she get that awful tattoo near her
snatch? Ruins it for me! Maybe she just didn't
like Vince? haha!

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Kami

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terri summers official site

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"Terri, you're hired!!"

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DenverDon

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