somthing that has always driven me nuts in porn is lack of good cameral angles, or sometimes you just want a simple shot but the directors try and get too clever and never give it to you. Its very frustrating as the girls and sex is usually hot. An example at the moment is the Ass Titans stuff, it might be because a lot of the scenes are group sex but i got really frustrated watching one, Kelly Devine was in a great cow girl position but the camera just wouldnt make the most of this and totally missed it, wondering off. I like wider shots sometimes but these scenes do it too much, I like to see a shot of the girls ass square on in cow girl, why is that so hard, it seems like an obvious shot to me, ass traffic used to have a lot of scenes like that where you get to see the girls ass full on getting stuffed by cock, now its nearly all wide shots or side angles and you dont see much of the ass. Its great sex but nearly all scenes on this site do nothing for me due to the direction. its probably a taste thing, i'm sure others love the stuff but to be honest i prefer the old ass traffic scenes, simple but effective angles showing full on sex I know how this might sound but to give an idea of scenes i rarely get this frustaion with, all Jay Sin's stuff. He does nearly every shot possible and maybe i like him because he films the positions and shots I sway more towards and he gives them plenty of time, you never think "go back to that shot yoy bastard!!!". I love legs together doggie style and good cow girl. It really shows off girls asses and hardly anyone directs ass films effectively. It drives me insane when you get some great tease but the sex it shot so bady or in a boring way you are left wishing you didnt see that great tease. It cant be that difficult, i'd be happy if there were set angles that directors would stick to as well as other stuff, it might sound forularic but i like to watch same positions sometimes, it can still have variety cant it? Just show me decent cow girl in every film and i'll be happy! assparade is another offender, the tease is always great, then its let down by bad sex, especially anal scenes, with asses like that why waste by using positions that dont show it off. I know they dont do much anal but when they get the chance they really know how to waste it on most occasions. Anyway, I definatly think the way forward in porn is to give the consumer a choice of angles, to be able to switch to an angle you want to see rather than frustratingly will the camera to move would be great. Sorry if this sounded like a rant, i just been watching some stuff and i felt compelled to moan about it! maybe i been watching porn too long and expect too much, seems that only a handfull of directors do it for me these days. also to add, i was watching some old porn from about 4 or 5 years ago and it seems a lot better than most stuff out now, i forgot how good some of those old titles are.
Much as I agree that it would be nice to always have the angles/shots that one likes best, switching angles is disruptive, and the more choices there are the more disruptive to one's 'suspension of belief' it's going to be. There are also constraints imposed by the media. How many discs will it take to fit all this in? I suspect that if you use multiple cameras at the same time then choreographing everything so they don't end up in the shot could be difficult and time consuming. If you use the same camera then the session would take much longer to complete. I think that the reason you aren't likely to see this done, at least not often, is that it would increase costs, this at a time when pornographers are complaining about tiny margins already. A pornographer would have to be pretty confident of an exceptional return on his investment to take this on.
Welcome to my porn-viewing hell rski! This is by far one of my biggest issues with porn in general. Not sure if my issues are exactly the same as yours, but I often find myself getting frustrated with the camerawork of most films. I just think there is a tendency for most to over-produce. Maybe they feel like they aren't really directing unless they're always doing something. All I ask is to able to see the bodies throughout most of the scene, and also throughoout most of the action. Not close-ups all the time or constant panning or abrupt angle shifts.
Maybe they should have multiple camera view choice option on the DVD, we could have a choice of viewing which angle we like. For example the "Virtual Sex" dvd series has two camera angles to choose from.
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rski Deactivated User
282 Posts 10/04
Posted - Jun 28 2009 : 10:55AM
thanks for the replies. nothing makes my dick more limp than a badly shot scene. its probably quite an obvious thing to be irritated by to be honest, I guess everyone has thier own tastes when it comes to direction and angles but sometimes I think some porn is just blatently shot so badly and big opportunities are missed. I have seen a few scenes that have just totally wasted a hot girl, I just sit there thinking what is wrong with the guy shooting this, half an hour of good ass tease then 2 minutes of reverse cow girl anal where you can even see the girls ass. Maybe there are a few tecnical issues, its the only reason i cant think why this type of thing happens. I almost wish i was a porn director somethimes, i guess thats why i like the multiple shot idea, so the consumer could almost direct a scene. I agree with Hardware's post that this is just not feasible at the moment due to formats, costs etc. It shouldnt really be needed though, if a scene is shot with plenty of good angles I'm happy, but that seems rare at the moment. I'm not really slating porn in general, there is some great stuff out there but I get irritated watching badly shot stuff these days, I have no tolorance for it. Just get some decent angles and keep the camera straight, is it that hard! You dont exacly have to be Orson Welles. although big respect to the really skilled porn directors that pump out the elite material, i dont think id watch porn at all if it wasnt for them. to sum up this long post i'd just like to list my main personal gripes so this rant makes some form of sense: - Loads of tease with no pay off, you are left totally unfulfilled and wish you never bothered watching (a lot of assparade scenes do this, usually great tease then weak sex imo) Wasted talent, you can see a good scene but the director is getting the worst possible shots A great shot is captured and you want to see more but the camera moves to something else which could have been filmed at any point, missing that great shot If 2 girls are in a scene, one is given much more attention, to the point where it might as well be a one on one scene, i usually find the one that is being filmed less I want to see more of! Also in a 2 girl scene, if one of the girls obstructs the camera totally blocking what is going on, or she has her hands all over the other girls ass so you cant see it, i wouldnt mind some shots like that but sometimes it dominates a scene Shaking camera, almost like the director is pissed or something. A girl with a great butt and you barely see it (loads more but i think i said enough!)
Bad camerawork is one of my biggest frustrations in porn and it has ruined many movies and scenes, in my opinion. This new age of quick camera movement/non stop movement/ shaking/quick editing is the worst thing to come along. Most viewers probably don't mind it because they are used to it but it's the same old story...a few directors start doing it and everyone follows. The scenes are long enough to devote plenty of time to several angles...why does every camera operator film as though he/she has ants in their pants ? I realize that many directors want the action to come off as being "fast and furious" but getting people seasick is not necessary. Twisting and shifting the camera is my BIGGEST beef with thses people. Why the hell do you do that ? I am trying to get turned on, not ride a roller coaster. I certainly can't speak for anybody else but is it too much to ask to tone it down a little ? You don't have to stay on the same angle for 20 minutes but there's nothing wrong with being a little more smooth and calm. It's the performers and sexual action that most people are interested in, not wild camera work.
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clout1 Deactivated User
44 Posts 3/09
Posted - Jun 28 2009 : 8:38PM
Me also. I've given away or thrown away many DVD's because of it. You got a beautiful girl you'd really like to see and they mess it up. I'm tired of looking at guys asses or the back of heads.
Diagonally parked in a parallel universe 576 Posts 5/03
Posted - Jul 1 2009 : 1:51PM
Well, as regulars probably know, this is my major bitch-and-moan about porn, so I won't bore you with another long rant. I've had to conclude that the greatest number (lowest common denominator) of buyers/renters must prefer (generic by definition) genital closeups instead of full-body shots, "unusual" (unviewable, IMO) angles, quick-cut, artsy fartsy camerawork, etc ... simply because it comprises at least 95% of all the porn I see. If most consumers didn't want it, they wouldn't do it, right? Meanwhile, I continue to stare gape-jawed at (what to me is) a universal, incredibly wrongheaded approach to filmed sex. The idea seems to be artily obscure rather than to employ a visually sensible perspective. I see it everywhere and in all eras and genres of porn. It's gotta be me, I guess.
As long as they forego under the balls shots while the girl is giving head I am happy! Nothing worse than the angle of some dudes hairy, sweaty ass and nutsack while the focus should be the girl giving him head! just my opinion, I could be wrong. Greg S
The people shooting porn are not aroused. They are guessing or imitating. Some appear to have no idea what shots or angles are hot.
Edited by - ntfighter on 7/2/2009 12:10:00 PM
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Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Jul 1 2009 : 4:48PM
RskiThat's why I pay attention to who is directing the scene. You can have the hottest performers around, but it's often the person behind the camara who can make or break the scene.
I agree Clam Digger. A recent example, for me anyways, is "pornstar workout". This movie could have been incredible had it not been for the camerawork. Some would argue that the camera work is good...and maybe it is...but there is too much movement and not enough time devoted to each angle. I also found that the camera operator stood too far away when a certain act called for a close up...but that's my opinion, of course. Naturally, the makers have their vision of what they want to capture...but it doesn't necessarily make it a good thing for the consumers.
The local DMV should have a camera test for people who want their pornographer license. Like a driving test only with naked sex taking place in the room. Let's test america's future camera guys with some very basic questions like "What would you do if the male naked person lifted up the female naked person into the air and began boinking her airborne?" The sex-havers in the testing room----city employees----would then do exactly this, and the camera guy would have to grab his camera quick and show that he could respond to this scenario in a competent manner. If he failed to shoot anything but the penetration the whole time, in essence dropping to the ground and taking a break while letting the camera film from beneath the naked lady's ass, and he never got around to showing more than the freakin penetration (which could have been filmed at any other time during the scene), then the camera guy would be given a failing grade, he'd be administered a mild electric shock, and DMV employees would immediately counsel him on how he could improve before the next available test date.
my all time favorite movies would have been both tom bryons all girl ass eater unanimous movies if he actually zoomed in and kept the freaking camera still. I don't think he keeps it still for more than 10 secs at a time. He had gorgeous girls in those movies and they licked great especially in the first all girl one imo.
Cameramen listen up!! HOW TO SHOOT A WOMANS ORGASM There is NOTHING more annoying and irritating than a sloppy amateurish and just plain FUCKED UP camera work on a hot sex scene. Yet this happens more often than not. The reason for this is that most porn camera ops didn't go to film or video school, didn't pick up a book on how to shoot and really didn't bother with learning how to shoot for COVERAGE. Most just imitate what they see on MTV and think they're being cutting edge or cool when in actuality they being a pain in the ass for the viewer. Seeing quick cuts, fast/slo motion and acute angles in a video may look cool of your shooting a Kayne west video but in porn its fucking ANNOYING...i'll say it again..IT'S FUCKING ANNOYING!!! As viewers and more directly VOYEURS of sex... all we want to see is good lighting for a clear scene, good sound and simple camera work. But for some reason what we get is half assed lighting, so so sound and camera work that looks like Fellini on crack. But lets get to the point... 1. STOP MOVING THE CAMERA EVERY 30 SECONDS!! If your shooting a hot sex scene and there's good chemistry between the talent and the woman is REALLY starting to get into it (or is at least ACTING like she is) just let the action happen in front of the camera. I know you FEEL like there should be some kind of motion or movement to add some energy to the scene but thats NOT necessary. All the energy you need is happening IN FRONT of the camera so your moving doesn't add anything to it. Keep the movement to a minimum. If you feel you need to change angle then do it SLOWLY..not herky jerky. 2. ACUTE OR OBSCURE ANGLES ARE POINTLESS. Why cant (tilt) the shot 90 degrees? Its may SEEM like a cool photographers move but its ridiculous for video. And completely useless to a scene. All it does is make the viewer have to tilt their heads to see what the hell is happening. Artsy-fartsy shit belongs in art house movies NOT porn. STOP IT. 3. NOTE TO EDITORS..STOP CUTTING OUT THE FEMALE ORGASM. I've seen TOO many vids where the woman was getting ready to cum and suddenly the scene cuts or fades to something else..this is plain wrong and idiocy to boot. Especially in a gonzo vid where all kinds of extraneous bullshit is added or allowed (intro, outros, interviews, BTS, director shouting orders during the scene) yet the woman cumming and asking for a break to get her shit together is "not necessary" to see??? That is more fascinating to watch than asking her mundane questions about her sexual preference any day of the week and twice on sunday! 4. HOW TO SHOOT THE MONEY SHOT...(her's not his) When your shooting a scene and the guy is fucking the hell out of the girl..every now and again she may actually get into it. Look for the signs leading up to the female orgasm: A. she may close her eyes or stare off into space...this means he's hitting her spot and she's starting to concentrate on how good it feels. B. She may either STOP making noise or start making a low repetitious sound..along with the closed eyes or fixed stare means the quiet before the storm...watch out. C. Her toes may start to curl or she may start to hold on to something. D. She may start to diddle her clit herself to make sure it happens. Thats just a general overview and of course every woman is different but you can spot certain signs of you care to pay attention. Now back to the scene.. The scene is smokin' and she's really getting into it. You as a cameraman have a decent WIDE SHOT where you see all of her body and whats happening..then suddenly she moans really loud or yells she's coming and what do YOU do as a cameraman?? You start moving the camera and zooming in or moving in and zipping the shot up and down her body just as the orgasm hits...WRONG!!! If and when she's cumming is NOT the time to start moving the camera looking for "better angles". I know this is counter-intuitive for you Michael Bay wannabees but when a woman is coming in a sex scene you don't zoom in...you ZOOM OUT! PULL THE CAMERA BACK...OPEN UP THE SHOT. Lets see her WHOLE BODY. But why? you may ask. Because seeing the whole body writhe in orgasm is much more EROTIC and DRAMATIC and conveys MORE ENERGY to a scene than you think. Zooming in on her face may SEEM like a good idea but facial expressions can be faked. Also an orgasm doesn't just happen on a womans face. Zooming in on her pussy is really not a good idea either because unless she's creaming or clenching like crazy you really don't see anything you haven't seen before. Showing just part of her body, like shaking legs, doesn't work as well either..its like taking a still picture where you cut off the persons legs or head. When a person has an orgasm its usually a WHOLE BODY experience...especially on a woman. If she's making an orgasm face then chances are her stomach muscles are quivering, if thats happening then her legs are shaking if thats happening then her toes are curling. And all this is happening in the span of a few seconds before she regains her composure back. What you want to do in those few seconds is capture lightning in a bottle. Pulling back on the shot does just that. It allows the viewer to CHOOSE what they want to see be it her face, stomach, legs, pussy or toes at the crucial moments. Its LESS work for you with the MAXIMUM pay off for the viewer...and that is what we call a win/win situation. Good camera work should be like a good plumber..if he or she has done her work correctly then you shouldn't notice a thing. I'm noticing a LOT and I'm not the only one. So to recap: STOP MOVING THE CAMERA SO MUCH STOP THE TILTED ANGLES SHOOT SCENES IN WIDE ANGLES WHEN/IF SHE HAS AN ORGASM..PULL BACK ON THE SHOT.
No matter what size the tits are....play with them.... 732 Posts 12/08
Posted - Jul 2 2009 : 5:44AM
^^^^^ Alex, you talk a lot of sense, you must have watched lots of porn over the years and been frustrated by cameramen and directors. I don't think they will change, they seem sure that they know what we want.
+1 for Alex's rant I agree with the camera angle complaints here, but editing is just as important. Too many scenes fuck up the female orgasm. Two examples I can think of right off the bat are with Rebeca Linares. One scene, with Steve Holmes, he fingered her and she started to squirt, but the camera man immediately zoomed up to her face, and missed all the squirting. Jeez! Do the camera men do this for male cum shots? Do we want the see a guys face when he cums instead of shooting his load all over some girls face? No!!!! Same rules should apply for women. Now, Gangbang Auditions 23, a brand new release, Rebeca is getting DPed and she's totally into it, and she starts saying "don't stop", and the momentum is getting hotter and faster, and then the camera fades into another position, completely losing the heat and momentum of the DP position. Mia Rose in Slutty and Sluttier, too. In the BTS, she has an orgasm so strong she's on the ground having convulsions. Why the fuck wasn't this in the regular scene? That was one of the best pieces of porn I've ever seen. What, seeing girl totally have an out of body experience isn't worth seeing? Edits should not happen until the girl or guy has to stop, edits should not happen in the middle of some good chemistry like that. Its a shame that most porn only concentrates around a guy ramming his dick in and out and a cumshot. Don't even get me started on sex positions and sex action that are often NOT shot in favor of generic action we see over and over again.
Nice post Alex the droog and I agree with just about everything you say. :) Just one little thing....you mention in point # 1 not to move the camera every 30 seconds. You are being generous, my friend. I only wish that these camera operators would stay on an angle that long. Alot of these people are switching after 5 or 10 seconds... I remember watching a Chico Wang vid where he couldn't stay still for more than 2 or 3 seconds and the camera moved VERY quickly. I think that it was one of those cumswapping titles by diabolic...but I am not sure. It was completely unwatchable. The tilting camera (that's the word i meant to use)...thank you. That is a TOTAL pain in the ass. I absolutely hate when there's tilting. We just want to see the performers do what they do best...capture that in a way so that the viewer can watch in comfort and you'll make alot more people happy. Film school is not even necessary. It's their mentality that is the problem, in most cases. Go back to the basics and alot more people will be happy. let the performers take care of the action.
No matter what size the tits are....play with them.... 732 Posts 12/08
Posted - Jul 2 2009 : 11:52AM
I posted this on a "what bugs you in porn" thread 6 months ago. The main thing that bugs me in porn is, in (real, small, big or fake)tit movie's you can here tit play going on, but you can't see it. There is nothing worse than hearing a hot babe begging the stud to "squeeze my tits" or "play with my nipples" or my favorite "slap my tits" but all you can see is a close up of a cock in a pussy or arse. I know what's going on downstairs, I want to see some full body shots and facial expressions of the girls being fucked with tit play. rski, I shout at the screen when the camera wonders off an interesting bit, it's so frustrating. There is nothing worse than a ballsack slapping a babes ass hole and the camera shot is pretending your looking from 6" away. I wouldn't get that close even if it was my best mate I was sharing a girl with.
Diagonally parked in a parallel universe 576 Posts 5/03
Posted - Jul 2 2009 : 11:55AM
Yeah, Alex explained more definitively what constantly drives me up the wall. My continuing perplexity is that it seems to have always been this way in porn, the quick-cut editing, bad angles, and all the problems discussed above. Posters often answer criticisms on this board by saying that there are all kinds of porn to choose from, so just find what you want and shut up. Well, I'm saying that if there is any porn out there which does not suffer from the problems outlined in this thread, I haven't found it in 20+ years of looking. rski, are you (or any other posters) recommending Jay Sin's work? I'm ready to check out any porn maker who's cognizant of these kinds of problems.
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Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Jul 2 2009 : 12:28PM
But that is how I would prefer to see the scene. I think the female's facial reaction is the sexiest part of the show. I do like to see wider shots so I can see how the rest of her body reacts. Once the girl starts squirting, if it is real to start with, I get it - I know what is happening, I want to she her upper body expanding and reaction, her stomach muscles contracting, the movement of her hips. I want to her blushing cheeks and chest, if present. I want to see her face. I want to see her reach out to kiss her lover at the moment of her orgasm, I went to see her in explosive submission.....but hey that just me.
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undone Deactivated User
what's for dinner? 214 Posts 6/07
Posted - Jul 2 2009 : 2:35PM
I love it when the camera is on the pussy and cock action for 10 seconds then "swings" up to the girls face reaction as she looks at the camera to the side, then swings back to the penetration, then back to her reaction....please directors...KEEP THIS UP. No need to even film if you are not going to blend in the girls facial reaction to the sex...
As any foot freak will tell you, the tendency to cut the feet out of the frame in non-foot fetish porn is as commonplace as it is frustrating. I can understand why that is because zooming out to get everything in the frame doesn't always make for a good shot, but when you're shooting the cowgirl position from behind and the girl's gone out of her way to put her feet over dude's legs (for example), there's just no excuse. I guess it's something you don't even think about if you're not a foot lover yourself.
I suffer the same frustration for my leg fetish. Legs are amazing (at least to me) but they don't look great in every position or from every angle. It seems the legs are usually positioned in whatever position is convenient for the shot and the angle seems to have been chosen with no thought whatsoever to how the legs look from that angle. It's all about making sure you can see the penetration. Of course, as you say, when I really think about it, I understand. Anyone who didn't have a big thing for legs wouldn't even think about it and I guess I can't expect them to.
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undone Deactivated User
what's for dinner? 214 Posts 6/07
Posted - Jul 22 2009 : 9:05AM
I think porn videos need to be more specific about their content..we all have our preferences..we would pay if we got exactly what we want. I like lots of camera shifting, pussy then face, then pussy, cut to sucking, then pussy...rob black shit...not everybodys taste...make it optional on the menu of the dvd..come on this is digital...how about optional endings....its lazyness...no one wants to edit, no one wnats to set up up front so more options exist for the viewer..well guess what..then don't expect to make as as much money on your production. Quality over quantity. work the #s or put more effort into the production. the camera is the tool...use it. I don't like 20 minute scenes..i like 10 minute scenes...how about that niche...get creative with the camera angles...we need more hungry porn producers who need to break out...satisfaction creates boredom.
Me too. I'm into legs, and heels and such. I think it's just cluelessness and cameramen who don't get it. I can understand the job requires them to fixate on the genitalia during the sex action. But even during the preliminary tease when the girl is "fully clothed", they ignore legs, feet, and shoes. Most frustrating is the booty-cam camera angle. Where the girl is walking and posing and dancing in a tease sequence, and the camera stays fixed on closeup of her ass the ENTIRE time, maintaining the framing by (presumably) walking behind her and maintaining a set distance. This practice has taken over the porn industry. The disembodied ass treatment is waaay overdone. It's understandable if the girl has ugly disproportionate legs or saddlebags or spare tire or some other unattractive feature they're trying to hide. But thats rarely, if ever, the case; these are beautiful curvy women with nice shape from head to toe. Be we never get to see head-to-toe. And even when they do show the legs, still the feet get cut off. And it's not about focus or detail or zoom. There are plenty of scenes where the feet are cut off but there is plenty of "airspace" above the girl's head. It would only require aiming the camera slightly lower to catch her feet or shoes, without having to zoom out or back up at all.
