Beautiful women sharing their sexuality with us

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Speelie Senior Member Fort Collins, CO 1191 Posts 5/01	Posted - Feb 28 2003 : 4:29PM Saki pointed out that the Luke Ford thread was going off topic, but I wanted to comment on the whole "whore" issue. I read often about how porn actresses are simply whores, since, what the hell, they DO fuck for money. And I wouldn't be bothered by this labelling if all I saw was women lying there bored like butter, as the saying goes, spreading for bread. But that is NOT what I see in movie after movie. Instead, I see women going the extra mile, and giving of themselves. They have fun, they try to give pleasure, and they try to receive it. They put out energy, and their eyes register that they are having all kinds of fun. I know I must sound like a broken record, praising Nacho, Toni Ribas, and recent efforts from Rocco and Christoph Clark yet again (and now add Mason to the list), but actress after actress, in movie after movie, for months on end now have left me feeling grateful that they display more than minimal effort for the camera. And to show this gratitude, I refuse to refer to these women as "whores" or "guttersluts" or other similar terms. To bring this point home to ADT regulars, think of Tricia Devereaux, who gave of herself in many scenes over the years. Where's the line to call her some name (it forms at Anabolic, I guess )? If you can extend that courtesy to Miss D., why not also do so to Stacy Silver, Julie Silver, Lucy Lee, Julie Night, Meridian, Soffia Gently, Ashley Blue, and the dozens of others who entertain us via DVD? [Link]
jeff mike Deactivated User 28 Posts 2/03	Posted - Feb 28 2003 : 5:15PM Call me a old fashion romantic but they are all cum gargling fuck pigs who must be degraded to give their lives meaning. Some are "GutterMouths" while others are "Girlverts" but they are all whores. I'm a porn producer, so I mean that in the nicest way. Jeff Steward JM Productions [Link]
Hardware All-Star Member Your other left 14594 Posts 3/02	Posted - Feb 28 2003 : 6:34PM I'm with you Speelie. I'm not particularly upset by such terms as slut and whore, but, for my generation at least, they carry a connotation of 'I'm better than you' that I don't agree with. Edited by - hardware on 2/28/2003 6:35:19 PM [Link]
Asmodeus Lord of Lust az-mo-day-us 6338 Posts 10/01	Posted - Feb 28 2003 : 6:41PM I love women and I love porn and the world would definitely be a very boring place without either one of them. [Link]
Bill All-Star Member 5334 Posts 6/00	Posted - Feb 28 2003 : 6:59PM jeff mike wrote: Call me a old fashion romantic but they are all cum gargling fuck pigs who must be degraded to give their lives meaning. Click to expand You're a real class act Jeff. [Link]

Flash Golden Age Classic 11018 Posts 5/01	Posted - Feb 28 2003 : 7:19PM I agree with Speelie on this matter. The use of these terms to describe adult actresses is poor. I have seen several discussions here recently about how porn has such a bad stigma to the general public. The use of these words to describe the actresses is just going to further the bad stigma, especially when being used from within the industry itself. Every actress in the industry is a person and it would be nice if people remembered that when discussing the actresses. [Link]
dumblonde Senior Member 2352 Posts 7/00	Posted - Feb 28 2003 : 7:45PM I agree with Speelie of course, but I'm kinda puzzled. This is the attitude of much of the porn industry now, Jeff just makes no attempt to hide it. Wanker Wang called me a whore, even though I've never had sex for money, and I didn't hear anyone object. It doesn't bother me, though, I like people being upfront. Don't forget, JM Production's 'Gag Factor' won Best Oral Series at the AVNs this year. [Link]
Janitor Retired Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service. 6409 Posts 11/99	Posted - Feb 28 2003 : 8:07PM Jeff, I don't care if you put that kind of language on your boxcovers, but it's totally inappropriate here. You can choose to disrespect the people making your movies, but we simply don't care to hear it. This is not the place for that. [Link]
Sbando Boy Euro Babe Magnet 1839 Posts 6/01	Posted - Feb 28 2003 : 8:11PM My only explanation is that they consider this like a joke or some sort of Beavis & Butthead-esque funny lingo, not realizing that, not just women or female performers, but male fans as well and costumers in general, could feel upset by this cum-sucking whores talk. I don't find it funny. And reversing Jeff Mike's paradox (I hope it was a paradox): Blondie or myself are not whores, because Melanie Jagger is not a whore at all. On a side note, I've fought many battles against bigots who hated the Euro Whores and the Euro Trash, so I hope that this new found respect applies to anyone. [Link]
Speelie Senior Member Fort Collins, CO 1191 Posts 5/01	Posted - Feb 28 2003 : 8:11PM Blondie, I objected, but my method was to start this new thread. FWIW, I have been with a genuine whore before, a beautiful young women I met in Amsterdam's Red Light District. For her, it was like the old joke, "It's been a business doing pleasure with you." She was pretty, I got off, and it was easily worth the $56 I spent (100 guilders for 1/2 an hour), but it was cold. And the women I praise in porn movies are the many who make the effort to heat things up, because I do realize there are porn performers as icy as my Dutch hooker. [Link]
Hardware All-Star Member Your other left 14594 Posts 3/02	Posted - Feb 28 2003 : 8:31PM dumblonde wrote: Wanker Wang called me a whore, even though I've never had sex for money, and I didn't hear anyone object. Click to expand The difference is you're here to defend yourself. I'm not about to assume you need any of us to do it for you. That's not to say we wouldn't hold 'em down so you can sit on 'em (hmm, maybe not the best metaphor) but one get's the feeling that stepping in front might just get you whacked from both sides. [Link]
Flash Golden Age Classic 11018 Posts 5/01	Posted - Feb 28 2003 : 9:03PM dumblonde wrote: Wanker Wang called me a whore, even though I've never had sex for money, and I didn't hear anyone object. Click to expand By the time I read that thread Saki had already ended the topic so I couldn't offer an objection. [Link]
lindi Senior Member 12345 3205 Posts 9/02	Posted - Feb 28 2003 : 10:18PM It's hard to pass off 'cum gargling fuck pigs' as a tribute. When women don't encounter negative attitudes about their sexuality, they are a lot less hesitant to explore it. And I'm refering here to our entire society, as well as to the last woman you encountered who doesn't like to give head. [Link]
Wanker_Wang Deactivated User The Beach 116 Posts 11/02	Posted - Mar 1 2003 : 10:06PM jeff mike wrote: Call me a old fashion romantic but they are all cum gargling fuck pigs who must be degraded to give their lives meaning. Some are "GutterMouths" while others are "Girlverts" but they are all whores. I'm a porn producer, so I mean that in the nicest way. Jeff Steward JM Productions Click to expand Jeff, I wholeheartedly agree with you. These girls are all disgusting, worthless cum mops who deserve to get their faces covered in a bucket of jizz. These stupid whores should thank their lucky stars that guys are willing to spare their DNA down their gullets in order to get any sort of nourishment. These vile fuck pigs are here for one reason only. To suck dick and milk cock and gape for our viewing pleasure. The only reason they exist is to drink my urine and to eat my shit. God Bless Porn WW Somewhere unemployed and looking for food stamps Edited by - wanker_wang on 3/2/2003 2:34:18 AM [Link]
Bill All-Star Member 5334 Posts 6/00	Posted - Mar 1 2003 : 10:14PM Steph wrote: Jeff, I don't care if you put that kind of language on your boxcovers, but it's totally inappropriate here. You can choose to disrespect the people making your movies, but we simply don't care to hear it. This is not the place for that. Click to expand Wanker, Steph's comments weren't meant to be isolated to Jeff. If you want to spew that bullshit, put it on one of your own websites, not this one. [Link]

DenverDon Benevolent Firmly Embedded in Depravity 5914 Posts 7/02	Posted - Mar 1 2003 : 11:29PM Speelie started this thread with a pretty good statement. I hate seeing it getting derailed so badly. Speelie, I agree with you that there are lots of the performers that go the extra mile, enjoy what they do, and give of themselves. I also look for what Walter Burns called the 'blissful rapture'. Doesn't happen all that often, but extra nice when it does. I think the title to your thread is pretty apt. Beautiful women sharing their sexuality with us Click to expand DenverDon [Link]
grumpy Member 18 Posts 11/02	Posted - Mar 2 2003 : 1:39AM Girls that suck cock should be call Ladies and nothing less. [Link]
Speelie Senior Member Fort Collins, CO 1191 Posts 5/01	Posted - Mar 2 2003 : 2:54AM I agree with Hardware, one of the reasons the derogatory terms bother me is because they do imply that those of us beating off to the movies are somehow better than the performers. I really don't like political correctness, but I also don't like disrespect. I'm sorry if some people are reading this thread and finding it too "touchy-feely" but this is a particular issue about which I have strong feelings. As I indicated above, I have both seen and experienced passionless sex, and it makes me appreciatewhen porn actresses seem really into their work. They give me more than a little pleasure, and in return I give them respect. [Link]
MessyMarvin Member Atlanta 44 Posts 2/03	Posted - Mar 2 2003 : 11:17PM C'mon guys and girls, Jeff Mike and Wanker W. are just fucking around and trying to get a rise out of everyone. I don't agree with their comments and neither do they, so it is just to provide a lively discussion. Those ladies help put food on both their tables. It's just a joke (I agree, a bad one), but they are not being serious! Your little brother or sister or your best friend used to say things all the time to get a rise out of you. And those comments have definitely done that. Its alright, we told you what to dream. -Pink Floyd [Link]
shameless Deactivated User Moscow 1313 Posts 1/03	Posted - Mar 3 2003 : 8:51AM I read in Gauges homepage that she complains against being called whore, slut etc by the men standing behind the camera. In one point I agree and those girls playing in porn movies are to me just phantastic women I would call <actresses> to make clear that they play a role. If I go to a whore I pay, if a male porn star does a scene, he gets payed and girls get payed as well. So its clearly not the same. On the other hand I understand Jeff and Wanker-Wang because I think they are talking the same language I can read on their video-covers. Its the language that sells porn to a mainly male public. And obviousely it sells good. If you remember I asked Amee Donovan about that covers and she said she takes it as a joke. It even amuses her. And even more complicated it is, if we have film playing in brothel and actresses playing prostitutes (whores). I quite like such settings, but for me is clear that those girls just play a role. I think if you work as a porn actress it belongs to your job to be refered to sometimes as whore, slut etc. Bad is only if those girls are actually treated badly on the set. If it is just professional-jargon it is no problem, I think. Maybe Tricia can write her her feelings about her famous Anabolic title <A cum-sucking wh...>. To me it was just porn-jargon and I liked it a lot (the movie and its cover inclusive description what happens in it). [Link]
Walter Burns Legendary Quoter IAFD, supporters of beastiality. Just say no. 7564 Posts 11/02	Posted - Mar 3 2003 : 11:41AM MessyMarvin wrote: C'mon guys and girls, Jeff Mike and Wanker W. are just fucking around and trying to get a rise out of everyone. I don't agree with their comments and neither do they, so it is just to provide a lively discussion. Those ladies help put food on both their tables. It's just a joke (I agree, a bad one), but they are not being serious! Your little brother or sister or your best friend used to say things all the time to get a rise out of you. And those comments have definitely done that. Click to expand Are you saying that they basically act as trolls? Why should a forum tolerate that behavior from their members? If you can't be honest and only say things to "get a rise out of everyone", don't expect any respect from me. [Link]
Ramsey Senior Member Trina Michaels fan 10332 Posts 10/02	Posted - Mar 3 2003 : 11:54AM Jeff, I don't care if you put that kind of language on your boxcovers, but it's totally inappropriate here. You can choose to disrespect the people making your movies, but we simply don't care to hear it. This is not the place for that Click to expand But I have noticed people can insult Max Hardcore all they want here and nothing is being said about that. I think that's very unfair. I understand people don't like his movies but does that give them the right to insult him on ADT? [Link]
MessyMarvin Member Atlanta 44 Posts 2/03	Posted - Mar 3 2003 : 1:11PM I am not defending Jeff Mike or Wanker, and I am not condemning them as well. I would never talk about women that way, but we have strict standards down here in the dirty South. Walter, I am merely relaying to you that only one viewpoint was being offered, and these two are just playing a deranged devil's advocate role. And yes, I believe they should be able to stir things up if it is so obviously tongue-in-cheek. A little brevity would go a long way in discussions such as this. I know it is a serious subject, but when I read their comments, I laughed to myself a little bit b/c I knew what they were trying to do. Walter, I don't agree with them, but they are just providing the opposite viewpoint in a demonstrative way. "Life is a carnival, believe it or not" -The Band [Link]
Sir Noel Plum Senior Studmuffin 1001 Posts 2/03	Posted - Mar 3 2003 : 1:54PM I agree with you Marvin inasmuch as I call my gf a slut at times but it's all part of the game, I don't mean it literally! I can't believe these porno guys really believe the things they say; in fact I'm sure they don't. Perhaps it is hard though, when you use such language day in and day out to draw a line under it. I can understand a performer using such language on set or someone in their own bedroom but if the director or crew start using such terms off screen when it's not welcome then perhaps what has started out as acting a part is actually becoming the reality. For my part I don't EVER use terms like slut and whore in a derogatory sense excepting during my own private sexplay (or to tease a woman). The idea that being a porn star is somehow better than being a prostitute, and that insulting a prostitute is more acceptable, seems strange. Prostitutes are just as much people as porn stars, judges, brain surgeons or anybody else and I don't feel they deserve deriding for their occupation any more than anybody else. Whore should not be an insult because their is nothing intrinsically wrong with being a whore. As slut: that is not an insult either, it is simply the female equivalent of a stud (in my view). [Link]
Speelie Senior Member Fort Collins, CO 1191 Posts 5/01	Posted - Mar 3 2003 : 3:51PM @ Ramsey, I personally gave up insulting Max a few years ago. I realized what he does is a blatantly over the top act. I don't like it, and I avoid his product, but I also can't take him seriously (nor do I believe he really wants to be taken seriously). I do wonder if I should be taking some of these other guys seriously or not. Regardless, the "slut" attitude is turning me off from products that use such terms on the boxcovers. [Link]

tricia_devereaux Evil Angel DVD Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous? 4283 Posts 4/00	Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 1:52AM Shameless - I HAVE talked about that Anabolic comp title before. While I like the idea of a comp dedicated to my scenes, I DON'T like the title of it. If people took the term 'whore' to mean a very sexual person or something equating to that, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But unfortunately, the people who use the term the most DON'T mean it in the same way they would call a guy a stud. They mean it to be degrading, to say that the girl they are talking about is not worth anything else. Well, for any porn producer/director out there who believes this, those GIRLS have made you a hell of a lot of money, and if for no other reason than that, you should treat them with respect. I don't believe in trash talking to get attention. It's low, and it means that your product isn't worthy of attention on it's own. But I don't have to worry about that problem. I spend my time worrying about how to make my product even better, not trying to figure out new ways to degrade girls. jeff - as you know, I worked for JM quite a few times as a performer. To say that I would be a girl who NEEDS TO BE degraded to give my life meaning is utter bullshit. I did porn for many reasons, including money and enjoyment. To be degraded was NEVER one of them. I don't believe you or WW really believe the words you say, but it's just sad that you would even spend the energy to say them. [Link]
Big-G Deactivated User 30 Posts 12/02	Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 6:47AM Tricia, you don't like to be called a whore. Hmmm well do you think you are an innocent housewife? Or perhaps a lady with high moral standards? Maybe a wonderful role model for teenage girls? An idol for single or married women? You've fucked strangers after strangers after strangers, in the nastiest ways possible for money. And after all that you don't like to be addressed as a whore. Well if women like you can't be called whores, then who deserves that title? I personally think you are one of the greatest whores, and I enjoyed your movies. So don't be ashamed of who you are. You were one of the best whores ever. [Link]
Wanker_Wang Deactivated User The Beach 116 Posts 11/02	Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 7:01AM Walter Burns wrote: Are you saying that they basically act as trolls? Why should a forum tolerate that behavior from their members? If you can't be honest and only say things to "get a rise out of everyone", don't expect any respect from me. Click to expand Walter, what sort of behavior are you deploring? I see things as I see them and I relay the things I see. I neither desire your respect, nor do I ask you for your respect. I'm a fucking idiot worthy of very limited quantities of respect if at all. Let's face it. And it's nothing I don't tell the girls I see on a daily basis. Porn stars are whores. Not in a negative way, but in the finest, most majestic way possible. If these whores were clothed in an astronaut suit playing chess or pondering solutions to the greenhouse effect, would you jack off to the DVD? Absolutely not. We buy these DVDs to jerk our peckers raw until we splooge a load right onto our belly and clean it off with a baby wipe. We don't buy them to wonder what the whore's opinion on the North Korean crisis is. How can you when the whore has two dicks in her asshole and gurgling cum like it's Listerine? I respect all women. I respect them even more when my dick crashes into the back of their throats. I respect them to near deity proportions when I pull out of their asses and they suck off a rotting, digested piece of lettuce and chew chew chew. They deserve the highest respect after that. There's nothing more respectful than a whore staying at your house offerring up her pussy in exchange for a midnight trip to Taco Bell. That's not only good whore behavior ... that's the behavior of a bonafide goddess. Maybe I was wrong when I referred to them as "worthless" whores. The fact they have three holes ready to milk my nut butter until it glazes their eyeballs makes them quite "worthwhile". WW Somewhere acting like a troll [Link]
Ramsey Senior Member Trina Michaels fan 10332 Posts 10/02	Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 7:35AM What's your problem Big-G? There's a big difference in being a pornstar and being a whore. Tricia is one very classy lady and doesn't deserve to be insulted like that. Please stop the trolling. [Link]
Walter Burns Legendary Quoter IAFD, supporters of beastiality. Just say no. 7564 Posts 11/02	Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 11:27AM Walter, what sort of behavior are you deploring? Click to expand Is nobody paying any attention around here? My post wasn't that long, was it? Do I really have to repeat it? My comment was a direct response to MessyMarvin, not to anything you or jef mike have said. I will highlight the parts in MessyMarvin's post that got my attention: MessyMarvin wrote: Jeff Mike and Wanker W. are just fucking around and trying to get a rise out of everyone . I don't agree with their comments and neither do they , so it is just to provide a lively discussion . Those ladies help put food on both their tables. It's just a joke (I agree, a bad one), but they are not being serious! Your little brother or sister or your best friend used to say things all the time to get a rise out of you. Click to expand I reacted to this as follows: Walter Burns wrote: Are you saying that they basically act as trolls? Why should a forum tolerate that behavior from their members? If you can't be honest and only say things to "get a rise out of everyone", don't expect any respect from me. Click to expand What is so hard to understand here? Have I said that you are a troll? I don't think so. The only thing I did say, is that if you are saying what you are saying because of the reason MessyMarvin has attributed to you, that would be the behavior of a troll. And I don't like trolls. And neither do the majority on this forum. Just ask PS (the guy from Brazil). Let's see if I can make it even more straight forward. I don't like your opinion (it reminds me of a certain P.R.), but if it really is your opinion, I can and will respect that, within limits. However, if it is really not your opinion, but just some sales gimmick or joke or a way to stir things up, than I would ask you to take a piss in your own back yard instead of this forum. Is it clear now "what sort of behavior I am deploring"? p.s. A related topic: It is 1 thing to express your opinion in a truthful manner, but it is another thing to use hyperbole to do it. I don't like that "sort of behavior" neither. [Link]
aybesea Senior Member Caroline Cage - Hungarian Hottie! 1485 Posts 5/02	Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 11:35AM You know, I'm confused here. Many of the girls, and the titles that they star in, are created to conjure up fantasies about hot sluts that can't get enough... right??? But when someone plays into the fantasy and actually visualizes (and verbalizes) along and calls them a slut/whore, we've got a bunch of recoil about rights and dignity. You can't have it both ways! I don't believe that all of the porn stars are truly sluts or whores. Hell... I don't even know most of them. The couple that I have made acquanitance with seem like reasonably normal humans (meaning they span the spectrum). But... the fact is that they make their living by selling a fantasy. And if the fantasy sometimes blurs over into casual discussion, it seems to me that means that they are doing their jobs well! In my twisted way of thinking, maybe they should take this as a compliment of sorts. Far better than someone saying, "yeah, that Avy Scott is a really conservative dead-fuck"... dontcha think? [Link]
tricia_devereaux Evil Angel DVD Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous? 4283 Posts 4/00	Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 11:41AM BigG - I do think I'm a lady. A model for teenage girls. In my private life, absolutely. If their parents are doing THEIR job, then the girls will turn out just fine. "Well if women like you can't be called whores, then who deserves that title?" In my eyes, certainly not someone who doesn't like THAT word. If you're such a big fan of my movies, you have probably noticed that ALMOST NEVER did anyone call me a whore or slut or especially cunt in a scene. That is because I can't stand those WORDS. Not the acts. The words bother me because most of society means them in the most derogatory way possible. The few times that the scene called for it, I either made the decision to not do the scene, or I talked with the director and was paid more for it. Again, you say you've enjoyed my movies SO much. I have no problems with someone telling me they loved seeing me suck cock or take a DP, or whatever. But I've stated several times that I simply don't like words that have come to mean demeaning things in today's society. I simply ask that you respect all that I have done for all the world to see, and respect my wishes for people to not call me names. You want to do it with your friends, fine. But I consider the people at ADT, the TRUE regulars, MY friends. And my friends don't call me a whore. It's too bad that a place I usually enjoy going to is being turned into some fucked up place for people to troll around and do their best to cause arguments. [Link]
jeff mike Deactivated User 28 Posts 2/03	Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 11:43AM As I explained before,when I call someone a whore, I mean it as a complement. I like good whores, in fact im married to a great fucking whore. I would have it no other way. Sorry Steph if im to politically incorrect for you, but hey, im a public nuisance. IM A PORNAGPHER! So get off your high horse and go fuck yourself you self righteous tight ass because I make the porn you watch. If my opinions and comments are not welcome here,then kick me off your site. In fact, why not kick all of us evil smut peddlers off. As for Tricia, maybe one day JM Productions will be "COOL" enough to not "trash talk" to get attention. It would be great if everyone was as "hip" as Evil Angel. Whatever!!! Jeff Steward JM Productions [Link]
dumblonde Senior Member 2352 Posts 7/00	Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 12:12PM Wow.... You guys are really sending a mixed message here. According to some, any female who enjoys sex is a whore. Apparently you need to degrade a female to make it enjoyable. Well, this is nothing new, it runs through porn in varying degrees, but that's fucked up. For those who think that jeff mike and wanker wang were just joking, I hope by now you realize they are not. To say that the term 'whore' should not be insulting is not really addressing the issue, because it IS insulting. I guess a male will never know how much, because there is no word that is the male equivalent. Comparing 'slut' with 'stud' doesn't even come close in its implication. All this attitude does is to reinforce the old 'good girl' 'bad girl' stereotypes that I thought were gone, and it gives one pause about having sex with y'all. [Link]
aybesea Senior Member Caroline Cage - Hungarian Hottie! 1485 Posts 5/02	Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 12:18PM SB... I don't know if you were including me in that pointed statement, but if you were you missed my point by a mile! If not, I humbly apologize for this unsolicited response. [Link]

dumblonde Senior Member 2352 Posts 7/00	Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 12:41PM Aybesea, no I didn't mean you, I was referring more to the pornographer's attitudes. I don't think every pornographer has this view of females, but jeff mike implies that it goes hand-in-hand with the territory, and I do think consumers have to share part of the blame. This is one of the reasons I like my 'couples porn'. [Link]
Hardware All-Star Member Your other left 14594 Posts 3/02	Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 12:41PM @aybesea - the problem I have with your logic is that it assumes that my perception is that the woman is doing something which is abnormal, therefor she must either be superior or inferior to normal women. I think women in porn do things which are unusual, not abnormal; therefor I don't see any reason to deem them sluts, whores, or any other term laden with Victorian disapproval. Furthermore, I'd like to suggest that if people think that some sexual act is 'nasty' that doesn't give them the right to apply their value system to the people who enjoy or perform that sexual act. That just gives them the right to decline performing or watching that act. Jeff MIke, et al, are free to think of women any way they choose, but to call someone a name that the person clearly finds derogatory is crude, rude and childish, and has no place in an adult conversation. @DB - I don't know about Wanker Wang, but Jeff Mike is obviously , as Walter puts it, a troll. Whether he should be allowed to amuse himself at other people's expense is something for the moderators to decide. I'd address my comment to Jeff Mike directly but he obviously has no respect for anybody's opinion but his own. [Link]
aybesea Senior Member Caroline Cage - Hungarian Hottie! 1485 Posts 5/02	Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 12:46PM Hardware wrote: @aybesea - the problem I have with your logic is that it assumes that my perception is that the woman is doing something which is abnormal, therefor she must either be superior or inferior to normal women. I think women in porn do things which are unusual, not abnormal; therefor I don't see any reason to deem them sluts, whores, or any other term laden with Victorian disapproval. Click to expand Hardware, where did you come to the conclusion that I consider these acts abnormal? I certainly never stated that. I believe I exlusively used the term fantasy. And I believe that this term is very appropriate. [Link]
MessyMarvin Member Atlanta 44 Posts 2/03	Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 1:01PM Wow, quite the hot debate! I think i will put my two cents in now. I assume Jeff was banned for his comments, as it says banned user by his name. I am NOT condoning the type of shit that attacks individuals or women as a group. I would NEVER refer to women in a derogatory fashion such as Wanker and Jeff have done here. I find Wanker's comments to be somewhat amusing, but Jeff stepped over the line here. And he did it on purpose. As to whether they are attempting to stir up the discussion, I don't see that they really believe the comments still. I think just the opposite. They have pushed this topic as hard as they could in order to ellicit a desired response. The fact that anyone would be banned or people would get pissed off is EXACTLY what the goal was from the beginning. Tricia, I agree with you completely. There is a heavy negative connotation on the words whore (and definitely cunt, I hate that word!) in society today. If someone doesn't like to be called these things, then no one should call them that! End of story! Wanker and Jeff would never talk to their mothers like that. And if they would, then that says enough about them anyway. If a woman likes to be called names such as the ones mentioned in this topic, more power to her. If not, then don't fucking do it! All I was saying from the beginning is that Wanker and Jeff were trying to push the discussion into a certain area, and if they weren't spurred on, they would let it go. "Jane says she's done with Sergio, he treats her like a rag doll" -Jane's Addiction [Link]
Hardware All-Star Member Your other left 14594 Posts 3/02	Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 1:11PM aybesea wrote: Hardware, where did you come to the conclusion that I consider these acts abnormal? I certainly never stated that. I believe I exclusively used the term fantasy. And I believe that this term is very appropriate. Click to expand @Ayb, perhaps I was overreacting to your use of the word 'sluts' in this statement, "Many of the girls, and the titles that they star in, are created to conjure up fantasies about hot sluts that can't get enough..." [Link]
aybesea Senior Member Caroline Cage - Hungarian Hottie! 1485 Posts 5/02	Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 1:15PM Hardware wrote: @Ayb, perhaps I was overreacting to your use of the word 'sluts' in this statement, "Many of the girls, and the titles that they star in, are created to conjure up fantasies about hot sluts that can't get enough..." Click to expand But doesn't the term slut convey "a morally loose woman who wants to fuck on a moment's notice"? Isn't this the fantasy that many of the directors/stars attempt to get our testosterone laced minds to buy into? I stand by my choice of words. [Link]
Walter Burns Legendary Quoter IAFD, supporters of beastiality. Just say no. 7564 Posts 11/02	Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 1:31PM aybesea wrote: But doesn't the term slut convey "a morally loose woman who wants to fuck on a moment's notice"? Isn't this the fantasy that many of the directors/stars attempt to get our testosterone laced minds to buy into? Click to expand My mind "fantasizes" about the opposite thing. What is so special about seeing a "slut" being fucked to kingdom come? I don't fantasize about "a morally loose woman who wants to fuck on a moment's notice". I "fantasize" (put between inverted commas, because I am not convinced it is the right word, not in my case at least) about how an "ordinary" (but hopefully exquisite) girl is willing to show me her sexual desires, despite the social stigma surrounding that kind of thing. Like Speelie wrote: "Beautiful women sharing their sexuality with us". The fantasy for me is not the belief that they are "sluts", but the "reality" that they are revealing something of themselves, that they are "giving" me something special. It can be as simple as a quick glimpse of their bodies or as grand as a moment of "blissful rupture". btw, I have noticed that quite a lot among you have been discussing "blissful rApture" instead of "blissful rUpture". I had to use my dictionary to find out that rapture is indeed very close to rupture in this case, but still, there are important differences. Rapture is only one kind of rupture, so to speak. [Link]
aybesea Senior Member Caroline Cage - Hungarian Hottie! 1485 Posts 5/02	Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 1:38PM Walter Burns wrote: I don't fantasize about "a morally loose woman who wants to fuck on a moment's notice". I "fantasize" (put between inverted commas, because I am not convinced it is the right word, not in my case at least) about how an "ordinary" (but hopefully exquisite) girl is willing to show me her sexual desires, despite the social stigma surrounding that kind of thing. Click to expand Ahh.. but now you have personalized things. I never stated that this was my fantasy, either. I simply opined that there are many stars and directors who proactively purport this fantasy. And I then concluded that if this fantasy were being fostered by the girls involved, it would be hypocritical of them to be upset when the fantasy continued into verbalized discussion. I personally don't like the slut fantasy at all! I personally want to envision myself doing Tyra Banks or other members of the supermodel elite corps. Hence my fixation on Adamo productions. I absolutely adore truly beautiful women who are dressed, made up, placed in sets, and adopt the personality of truly beautiful women. [Link]
Speelie Senior Member Fort Collins, CO 1191 Posts 5/01	Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 1:42PM Aybesea, I think context is important. I certainly don't believe that you ever attempt to be disrespectful, and my complaint involved deliberately provacative language. I know you are appreciative of what women in porn bring to the movies you and I both enjoy. Moving on, Tricia was able to simplify my argument into a concise statement, "You don't call your friends by insulting names." Sure, Lucy Lee and Cinderella are not my personal friends, but I think of them with warm feelings, and they pursue the same activity as did Tricia, who I do consider a friend. I find the sex they have on camera to be something of beauty that brings me pleasure, so I extend respect to all of them. [Link]
dumblonde Senior Member 2352 Posts 7/00	Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 1:48PM and the first one to use the N word, loses! <<<<[[[[ [Link]
Walter Burns Legendary Quoter IAFD, supporters of beastiality. Just say no. 7564 Posts 11/02	Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 2:33PM aybesea wrote: Ahh.. but now you have personalized things. I never stated that this was my fantasy, either. I simply opined that there are many stars and directors who proactively purport this fantasy. And I then concluded that if this fantasy were being fostered by the girls involved, it would be hypocritical of them to be upset when the fantasy continued into verbalized discussion. Click to expand OK, then let me try another, less personalized approach. Let's agree that there are many stars and directors who proactively purport the fantasy of the girls being "sluts". Why then would it be "hypocritical of them to be upset when the fantasy continued into verbalized discussion"? Well, I don't think that it is hypocritical at all, but just common sense. According to your theory (which may be valid), as porn stars, they are carriers of an imaginary representation leading to one possible interpretation of the meaning of the word "slut". Why would that imaginary representation have any kind of direct relation with the "real" person behind the imaginary sign that is the "slutty porn star"? In plain English, that would be as foolish as to confuse "reality" with "fantasy". I have to agree that this topic is in fact not as simple as it seems. Let me put it in as simple terms as I can. I can understand why some people feel the need to call "Tricia Devereaux" a slut or a whore. But "Tricia Devereaux" is not a real person. "Tricia Devereaux" doesn't exists outside the imaginary world of porn. However, Mary Doe (let's assume that this is the real name of the pornstar known as "Tricia Devereaux") is a real person. Calling Mary Doe a slut or a whore is utter bull, mainly because the porn buying public doesn't even know Mary Doe. Furthermore, I can understand why Mary Doe is upset when someone calls "Tricia Devereaux" a slut, because, consciously or not, Mary knows that the insult is meant for both Tricia and Mary and that Mary can only defend herself in public as Tricia. Am I making any sense here? [Link]
aybesea Senior Member Caroline Cage - Hungarian Hottie! 1485 Posts 5/02	Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 2:48PM Walter Burns wrote: Let me put it in as simple terms as I can. I can understand why some people feel the need to call "Tricia Devereaux" a slut or a whore. But "Tricia Devereaux" is not a real person. "Tricia Devereaux" doesn't exists outside the imaginary world of porn. However, Mary Doe (let's assume that this is the real name of the pornstar known as "Tricia Devereaux") is a real person. Calling Mary Doe a slut or a whore is utter bull, mainly because the porn buying public doesn't even know Mary Doe. Furthermore, I can understand why Mary Doe is upset when someone calls "Tricia Devereaux" a slut, because, consciously or not, Mary knows that the insult is meant for both Tricia and Mary and that Mary can only defend herself in public as Tricia. Am I making any sense here? Click to expand As clear as a crystalline stream! I agree with this line of thought. Like it or not, one cannot blame the consumer for blending/confusing the fantasy with the reality. The same is true of all public figures (sports stars, politicians, etc.) When one chooses to live a life of scrutiny, especially one where a public expectation will be attached to them, one should not be surprised when that repuatation tends to follow them around. Charles Barkley may be a real sensative, nice guy off of the court. But when he chose to take it up a notch by manhandling a cameraman, he shouldn't be surprised when the fans think that he is a thug! George Bush may be a kind and gentle soul to his children, but one cannot be held in contempt for thinking he is a hawk. Likewise, when these ladies try their best to convince us that they are hardcore, down and dirty, nymphettes, they should not be surprised when... [Link]
tricia_devereaux Evil Angel DVD Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous? 4283 Posts 4/00	Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 4:03PM abc - I guess it's really difficult to describe how difficult it is emotionally to be a porn girl. There's a lot of things that I did on camera that I wouldn't do in real life, and that's why I respect myself. I wouldn't take money from a perfect stranger (I don't consider people established in the adult business as perfect strangers.) I've come to accept that there are people in the world who will always think of me as a slut and a whore (by the way, if you have to call me one or the other, I prefer slut). But I guess I always hope that it's just the people who don't like porn. It depresses me a lot when I realize that there's people here in the porn business who think I'm just some mindless slut who isn't good for anything else. Was I a slut on camera? Absolutely. Off camera? Never. And was/am I mindless. Hell no. [Link]
aybesea Senior Member Caroline Cage - Hungarian Hottie! 1485 Posts 5/02	Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 4:10PM And Tricia, when I made the comment earlier that I only knew a couple of porn stars, you are one of them. I think you are one of the nicest, smartest ladies that I've met in a long time. I also think you are a smokin' slut in your scenes! Two separate feelings about the same lady! But that's because I can keep things in some sort of perspective. I'm not at all sure that that ability is something that you can take for granted. It's also because I've met you, and talked with you, and gotten eye contact, etc. Again, not something you can take for granted. I'm truly not trying to be cold or impersonal. I'm sure it must bother the daylights out of you when someone uses those ridiculous euphemisms on you as a person. But, for those who don't know you, but only know of your work, I cannot blame them (even though I'm not of that persuasion). You chose a very public life and it goes with the territory. On the other hand, for those who do know you, and still continue to bad mouth you... they need their heads adjusted!!! [Link]
dumblonde Senior Member 2352 Posts 7/00	Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 4:34PM But you guys are STILL categorizing females into these ridiculous good girl/bad girl camps! This is 2003, and you're still saying that females cannot be sexual without being thought of as a slut. Tricia, this is the reason that I object to a certain kind of porn, it just reenforces that stereotype, not because of what people do in the privacy of their homes. I'm not saying you necessarily Aybesea, but there is this love/hate relationship with porn girls that I don't understand. Jenna gets it a lot too. [Link]
DenverDon Benevolent Firmly Embedded in Depravity 5914 Posts 7/02	Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 4:51PM At the cost of repeating myself, I think Speelie's title to the thread still pretty much says it all: [/quote]Beautiful women sharing their sexuality with us[/quote] It is a fantasy world that is being created with the vision/direction that the director and producer want. It is one thing to say "She turned in a fantastic slutty performance" as opposed to saying she is a slut. DenverDon [Link]

Author

Post

Speelie
Senior Member

Fort Collins, CO
1191 Posts
5/01

Posted - Feb 28 2003 : 4:29PM

Saki pointed out that the Luke Ford thread was going off topic, but I wanted to comment on the whole "whore" issue. I read often about how porn actresses are simply whores, since, what the hell, they DO fuck for money. And I wouldn't be bothered by this labelling if all I saw was women lying there bored like butter, as the saying goes, spreading for bread.

But that is NOT what I see in movie after movie. Instead, I see women going the extra mile, and giving of themselves. They have fun, they try to give pleasure, and they try to receive it. They put out energy, and their eyes register that they are having all kinds of fun. I know I must sound like a broken record, praising Nacho, Toni Ribas, and recent efforts from Rocco and Christoph Clark yet again (and now add Mason to the list), but actress after actress, in movie after movie, for months on end now have left me feeling grateful that they display more than minimal effort for the camera. And to show this gratitude, I refuse to refer to these women as "whores" or "guttersluts" or other similar terms. To bring this point home to ADT regulars, think of Tricia Devereaux, who gave of herself in many scenes over the years. Where's the line to call her some name (it forms at Anabolic, I guess )? If you can extend that courtesy to Miss D., why not also do so to Stacy Silver, Julie Silver, Lucy Lee, Julie Night, Meridian, Soffia Gently, Ashley Blue, and the dozens of others who entertain us via DVD?

[Link]

jeff mike
Deactivated User

28 Posts
2/03

Posted - Feb 28 2003 : 5:15PM

Call me a old fashion romantic but they are all cum gargling fuck pigs who must be degraded to give their lives meaning. Some are "GutterMouths" while others are "Girlverts" but they are all whores. I'm a porn producer, so I mean that in the nicest way.

Jeff Steward
JM Productions

[Link]

Hardware

All-Star Member

Your other left
14594 Posts
3/02

Posted - Feb 28 2003 : 6:34PM

I'm with you Speelie. I'm not particularly upset by such terms as slut and whore, but, for my generation at least, they carry a connotation of 'I'm better than you' that I don't agree with.

Edited by - hardware on 2/28/2003 6:35:19 PM

[Link]

Asmodeus
Lord of Lust

az-mo-day-us
6338 Posts
10/01

Posted - Feb 28 2003 : 6:41PM

I love women and I love porn and the world would definitely be a very boring place without either one of them.

[Link]

Bill

All-Star Member

5334 Posts
6/00

Posted - Feb 28 2003 : 6:59PM

You're a real class act Jeff.

[Link]

Flash

Golden Age Classic

11018 Posts
5/01

Posted - Feb 28 2003 : 7:19PM

I agree with Speelie on this matter. The use of these terms to describe adult actresses is poor. I have seen several discussions here recently about how porn has such a bad stigma to the general public. The use of these words to describe the actresses is just going to further the bad stigma, especially when being used from within the industry itself. Every actress in the industry is a person and it would be nice if people remembered that when discussing the actresses.

[Link]

dumblonde
Senior Member

2352 Posts
7/00

Posted - Feb 28 2003 : 7:45PM

I agree with Speelie of course, but I'm kinda puzzled. This is the attitude of much of the porn industry now, Jeff just makes no attempt to hide it. Wanker Wang called me a whore, even though I've never had sex for money, and I didn't hear anyone object. It doesn't bother me, though, I like people being upfront.

Don't forget, JM Production's 'Gag Factor' won Best Oral Series at the AVNs this year.

[Link]

Janitor
Retired

Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service.
6409 Posts
11/99

Posted - Feb 28 2003 : 8:07PM

Jeff, I don't care if you put that kind of language on your boxcovers, but it's totally inappropriate here. You can choose to disrespect the people making your movies, but we simply don't care to hear it. This is not the place for that.

[Link]

Sbando Boy
Euro Babe Magnet

1839 Posts
6/01

Posted - Feb 28 2003 : 8:11PM

My only explanation is that they consider this like a joke or some sort of Beavis & Butthead-esque funny lingo, not realizing that, not just women or female performers, but male fans as well and costumers in general, could feel upset by this cum-sucking whores talk.
I don't find it funny. And reversing Jeff Mike's paradox (I hope it was a paradox): Blondie or myself are not whores, because Melanie Jagger is not a whore at all.

On a side note, I've fought many battles against bigots who hated the Euro Whores and the Euro Trash, so I hope that this new found respect applies to anyone.

[Link]

Speelie
Senior Member

Fort Collins, CO
1191 Posts
5/01

Posted - Feb 28 2003 : 8:11PM

Blondie, I objected, but my method was to start this new thread.

FWIW, I have been with a genuine whore before, a beautiful young women I met in Amsterdam's Red Light District. For her, it was like the old joke, "It's been a business doing pleasure with you." She was pretty, I got off, and it was easily worth the $56 I spent (100 guilders for 1/2 an hour), but it was cold. And the women I praise in porn movies are the many who make the effort to heat things up, because I do realize there are porn performers as icy as my Dutch hooker.

[Link]

Hardware

All-Star Member

Your other left
14594 Posts
3/02

Posted - Feb 28 2003 : 8:31PM

The difference is you're here to defend yourself. I'm not about to assume you need any of us to do it for you. That's not to say we wouldn't hold 'em down so you can sit on 'em (hmm, maybe not the best metaphor) but one get's the feeling that stepping in front might just get you whacked from both sides.

[Link]

Flash

Golden Age Classic

11018 Posts
5/01

Posted - Feb 28 2003 : 9:03PM

By the time I read that thread Saki had already ended the topic so I couldn't offer an objection.

[Link]

lindi
Senior Member

12345
3205 Posts
9/02

Posted - Feb 28 2003 : 10:18PM

It's hard to pass off 'cum gargling fuck pigs' as a tribute.

When women don't encounter negative attitudes about their sexuality, they are a lot less hesitant to explore it. And I'm refering here to our entire society, as well as to the last woman you encountered who doesn't like to give head.

[Link]

Wanker_Wang
Deactivated User

The Beach
116 Posts
11/02

Posted - Mar 1 2003 : 10:06PM

Jeff, I wholeheartedly agree with you. These girls are all disgusting, worthless cum mops who deserve to get their faces covered in a bucket of jizz.

These stupid whores should thank their lucky stars that guys are willing to spare their DNA down their gullets in order to get any sort of nourishment.

These vile fuck pigs are here for one reason only. To suck dick and milk cock and gape for our viewing pleasure. The only reason they exist is to drink my urine and to eat my shit.

God Bless Porn

WW
Somewhere unemployed and looking for food stamps

Edited by - wanker_wang on 3/2/2003 2:34:18 AM

[Link]

Bill

All-Star Member

5334 Posts
6/00

Posted - Mar 1 2003 : 10:14PM

Wanker,
Steph's comments weren't meant to be isolated to Jeff. If you want to spew that bullshit, put it on one of your own websites, not this one.

[Link]

DenverDon
Benevolent

Firmly Embedded in Depravity
5914 Posts
7/02

Posted - Mar 1 2003 : 11:29PM

Speelie started this thread with a pretty good statement. I hate seeing it getting derailed so badly.

Speelie, I agree with you that there are lots of the performers that go the extra mile, enjoy what they do, and give of themselves. I also look for what Walter Burns called the 'blissful rapture'. Doesn't happen all that often, but extra nice when it does.

I think the title to your thread is pretty apt.

DenverDon

[Link]

grumpy
Member

18 Posts
11/02

Posted - Mar 2 2003 : 1:39AM

Girls that suck cock should be call Ladies and nothing less.

[Link]

Speelie
Senior Member

Fort Collins, CO
1191 Posts
5/01

Posted - Mar 2 2003 : 2:54AM

I agree with Hardware, one of the reasons the derogatory terms bother me is because they do imply that those of us beating off to the movies are somehow better than the performers.

I really don't like political correctness, but I also don't like disrespect. I'm sorry if some people are reading this thread and finding it too "touchy-feely" but this is a particular issue about which I have strong feelings. As I indicated above, I have both seen and experienced passionless sex, and it makes me appreciatewhen porn actresses seem really into their work. They give me more than a little pleasure, and in return I give them respect.

[Link]

MessyMarvin
Member

Atlanta
44 Posts
2/03

Posted - Mar 2 2003 : 11:17PM

C'mon guys and girls, Jeff Mike and Wanker W. are just fucking around and trying to get a rise out of everyone. I don't agree with their comments and neither do they, so it is just to provide a lively discussion. Those ladies help put food on both their tables. It's just a joke (I agree, a bad one), but they are not being serious! Your little brother or sister or your best friend used to say things all the time to get a rise out of you. And those comments have definitely done that.

Its alright, we told you what to dream.
-Pink Floyd

[Link]

shameless
Deactivated User

Moscow
1313 Posts
1/03

Posted - Mar 3 2003 : 8:51AM

I read in Gauges homepage that she complains against being called whore, slut etc by the men standing behind the camera. In one point I agree and those girls playing in porn movies are to me just phantastic women I would call <actresses> to make clear that they play a role.

If I go to a whore I pay, if a male porn star does a scene, he gets payed and girls get payed as well. So its clearly not the same.

On the other hand I understand Jeff and Wanker-Wang because I think they are talking the same language I can read on their video-covers. Its the language that sells porn to a mainly male public. And obviousely it sells good.
If you remember I asked Amee Donovan about that covers and she said she takes it as a joke. It even amuses her.

And even more complicated it is, if we have film playing in brothel and actresses playing prostitutes (whores). I quite like such settings, but for me is clear that those girls just play a role.

I think if you work as a porn actress it belongs to your job to be refered to sometimes as whore, slut etc. Bad is only if those girls are actually treated badly on the set. If it is just professional-jargon it is no problem, I think.

Maybe Tricia can write her her feelings about her famous Anabolic title <A cum-sucking wh...>. To me it was just porn-jargon and I liked it a lot (the movie and its cover inclusive description what happens in it).

[Link]

Walter Burns
Legendary Quoter

IAFD, supporters of beastiality. Just say no.
7564 Posts
11/02

Posted - Mar 3 2003 : 11:41AM

Are you saying that they basically act as trolls? Why should a forum tolerate that behavior from their members? If you can't be honest and only say things to "get a rise out of everyone", don't expect any respect from me.

[Link]

Ramsey
Senior Member

Trina Michaels fan
10332 Posts
10/02

Posted - Mar 3 2003 : 11:54AM

But I have noticed people can insult Max Hardcore all they want here and nothing is being said about that. I think that's very unfair. I understand people don't like his movies but does that give them the right to insult him on ADT?

[Link]

MessyMarvin
Member

Atlanta
44 Posts
2/03

Posted - Mar 3 2003 : 1:11PM

I am not defending Jeff Mike or Wanker, and I am not condemning them as well. I would never talk about women that way, but we have strict standards down here in the dirty South. Walter, I am merely relaying to you that only one viewpoint was being offered, and these two are just playing a deranged devil's advocate role. And yes, I believe they should be able to stir things up if it is so obviously tongue-in-cheek. A little brevity would go a long way in discussions such as this. I know it is a serious subject, but when I read their comments, I laughed to myself a little bit b/c I knew what they were trying to do. Walter, I don't agree with them, but they are just providing the opposite viewpoint in a demonstrative way.

"Life is a carnival, believe it or not"
-The Band

[Link]

Sir Noel Plum
Senior Studmuffin

1001 Posts
2/03

Posted - Mar 3 2003 : 1:54PM

I agree with you Marvin inasmuch as I call my gf a slut at times but it's all part of the game, I don't mean it literally!

I can't believe these porno guys really believe the things they say; in fact I'm sure they don't. Perhaps it is hard though, when you use such language day in and day out to draw a line under it. I can understand a performer using such language on set or someone in their own bedroom but if the director or crew start using such terms off screen when it's not welcome then perhaps what has started out as acting a part is actually becoming the reality.

For my part I don't EVER use terms like slut and whore in a derogatory sense excepting during my own private sexplay (or to tease a woman). The idea that being a porn star is somehow better than being a prostitute, and that insulting a prostitute is more acceptable, seems strange. Prostitutes are just as much people as porn stars, judges, brain surgeons or anybody else and I don't feel they deserve deriding for their occupation any more than anybody else.

Whore should not be an insult because their is nothing intrinsically wrong with being a whore.

As slut: that is not an insult either, it is simply the female equivalent of a stud (in my view).

[Link]

Speelie
Senior Member

Fort Collins, CO
1191 Posts
5/01

Posted - Mar 3 2003 : 3:51PM

@ Ramsey, I personally gave up insulting Max a few years ago. I realized what he does is a blatantly over the top act. I don't like it, and I avoid his product, but I also can't take him seriously (nor do I believe he really wants to be taken seriously). I do wonder if I should be taking some of these other guys seriously or not. Regardless, the "slut" attitude is turning me off from products that use such terms on the boxcovers.

[Link]

tricia_devereaux
Evil Angel DVD

Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous?
4283 Posts
4/00

Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 1:52AM

Shameless - I HAVE talked about that Anabolic comp title before. While I like the idea of a comp dedicated to my scenes, I DON'T like the title of it. If people took the term 'whore' to mean a very sexual person or something equating to that, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But unfortunately, the people who use the term the most DON'T mean it in the same way they would call a guy a stud. They mean it to be degrading, to say that the girl they are talking about is not worth anything else.

Well, for any porn producer/director out there who believes this, those GIRLS have made you a hell of a lot of money, and if for no other reason than that, you should treat them with respect.

I don't believe in trash talking to get attention. It's low, and it means that your product isn't worthy of attention on it's own. But I don't have to worry about that problem. I spend my time worrying about how to make my product even better, not trying to figure out new ways to degrade girls.

jeff - as you know, I worked for JM quite a few times as a performer. To say that I would be a girl who NEEDS TO BE degraded to give my life meaning is utter bullshit. I did porn for many reasons, including money and enjoyment. To be degraded was NEVER one of them.

I don't believe you or WW really believe the words you say, but it's just sad that you would even spend the energy to say them.

[Link]

Big-G
Deactivated User

30 Posts
12/02

Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 6:47AM

Tricia, you don't like to be called a whore. Hmmm well do you think you are an innocent housewife? Or perhaps a lady with high moral standards? Maybe a wonderful role model for teenage girls? An idol for single or married women? You've fucked strangers after strangers after strangers, in the nastiest ways possible for money. And after all that you don't like to be addressed as a whore. Well if women like you can't be called whores, then who deserves that title?
I personally think you are one of the greatest whores, and I
enjoyed your movies. So don't be ashamed of who you are.
You were one of the best whores ever.

[Link]

Wanker_Wang
Deactivated User

The Beach
116 Posts
11/02

Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 7:01AM

Walter, what sort of behavior are you deploring? I see things as I see them and I relay the things I see. I neither desire your respect, nor do I ask you for your respect. I'm a fucking idiot worthy of very limited quantities of respect if at all.

Let's face it. And it's nothing I don't tell the girls I see on a daily basis. Porn stars are whores. Not in a negative way, but in the finest, most majestic way possible. If these whores were clothed in an astronaut suit playing chess or pondering solutions to the greenhouse effect, would you jack off to the DVD? Absolutely not.

We buy these DVDs to jerk our peckers raw until we splooge a load right onto our belly and clean it off with a baby wipe. We don't buy them to wonder what the whore's opinion on the North Korean crisis is. How can you when the whore has two dicks in her asshole and gurgling cum like it's Listerine?

I respect all women. I respect them even more when my dick crashes into the back of their throats. I respect them to near deity proportions when I pull out of their asses and they suck off a rotting, digested piece of lettuce and chew chew chew. They deserve the highest respect after that. There's nothing more respectful than a whore staying at your house offerring up her pussy in exchange for a midnight trip to Taco Bell. That's not only good whore behavior ... that's the behavior of a bonafide goddess.

Maybe I was wrong when I referred to them as "worthless" whores. The fact they have three holes ready to milk my nut butter until it glazes their eyeballs makes them quite "worthwhile".

WW
Somewhere acting like a troll

[Link]

Ramsey
Senior Member

Trina Michaels fan
10332 Posts
10/02

Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 7:35AM

What's your problem Big-G? There's a big difference in being a pornstar and being a whore. Tricia is one very classy lady and doesn't deserve to be insulted like that. Please stop the trolling.

[Link]

Walter Burns
Legendary Quoter

IAFD, supporters of beastiality. Just say no.
7564 Posts
11/02

Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 11:27AM

Is nobody paying any attention around here? My post wasn't that long, was it? Do I really have to repeat it?
My comment was a direct response to MessyMarvin, not to anything you or jef mike have said. I will highlight the parts in MessyMarvin's post that got my attention:

I reacted to this as follows:

What is so hard to understand here? Have I said that you are a troll? I don't think so. The only thing I did say, is that if you are saying what you are saying because of the reason MessyMarvin has attributed to you, that would be the behavior of a troll. And I don't like trolls. And neither do the majority on this forum. Just ask PS (the guy from Brazil).
Let's see if I can make it even more straight forward. I don't like your opinion (it reminds me of a certain P.R.), but if it really is your opinion, I can and will respect that, within limits. However, if it is really not your opinion, but just some sales gimmick or joke or a way to stir things up, than I would ask you to take a piss in your own back yard instead of this forum.
Is it clear now "what sort of behavior I am deploring"?

p.s. A related topic: It is 1 thing to express your opinion in a truthful manner, but it is another thing to use hyperbole to do it. I don't like that "sort of behavior" neither.

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aybesea
Senior Member

Caroline Cage - Hungarian Hottie!
1485 Posts
5/02

Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 11:35AM

You know, I'm confused here. Many of the girls, and the titles that they star in, are created to conjure up fantasies about hot sluts that can't get enough... right???

But when someone plays into the fantasy and actually visualizes (and verbalizes) along and calls them a slut/whore, we've got a bunch of recoil about rights and dignity.

You can't have it both ways!

I don't believe that all of the porn stars are truly sluts or whores. Hell... I don't even know most of them. The couple that I have made acquanitance with seem like reasonably normal humans (meaning they span the spectrum).

But... the fact is that they make their living by selling a fantasy. And if the fantasy sometimes blurs over into casual discussion, it seems to me that means that they are doing their jobs well!

In my twisted way of thinking, maybe they should take this as a compliment of sorts. Far better than someone saying, "yeah, that Avy Scott is a really conservative dead-fuck"... dontcha think?

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tricia_devereaux
Evil Angel DVD

Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous?
4283 Posts
4/00

Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 11:41AM

BigG -
I do think I'm a lady. A model for teenage girls. In my private life, absolutely. If their parents are doing THEIR job, then the girls will turn out just fine.

"Well if women like you can't be called whores, then who deserves that title?"
In my eyes, certainly not someone who doesn't like THAT word.

If you're such a big fan of my movies, you have probably noticed that ALMOST NEVER did anyone call me a whore or slut or especially cunt in a scene. That is because I can't stand those WORDS. Not the acts. The words bother me because most of society means them in the most derogatory way possible.
The few times that the scene called for it, I either made the decision to not do the scene, or I talked with the director and was paid more for it.

Again, you say you've enjoyed my movies SO much. I have no problems with someone telling me they loved seeing me suck cock or take a DP, or whatever. But I've stated several times that I simply don't like words that have come to mean demeaning things in today's society. I simply ask that you respect all that I have done for all the world to see, and respect my wishes for people to not call me names.
You want to do it with your friends, fine. But I consider the people at ADT, the TRUE regulars, MY friends. And my friends don't call me a whore.

It's too bad that a place I usually enjoy going to is being turned into some fucked up place for people to troll around and do their best to cause arguments.

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jeff mike
Deactivated User

28 Posts
2/03

Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 11:43AM

As I explained before,when I call someone a whore, I mean it as a complement. I like good whores, in fact im married to a great fucking whore. I would have it no other way. Sorry Steph if im to politically incorrect for you, but hey, im a public nuisance. IM A PORNAGPHER! So get off your high horse and go fuck yourself you self righteous tight ass because I make the porn you watch. If my opinions and comments are not welcome here,then kick me off your site. In fact, why not kick all of us evil smut peddlers off. As for Tricia, maybe one day JM Productions will be "COOL" enough to not "trash talk" to get attention. It would be great if everyone was as "hip" as Evil Angel. Whatever!!!

Jeff Steward
JM Productions

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dumblonde
Senior Member

2352 Posts
7/00

Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 12:12PM

Wow.... You guys are really sending a mixed message here. According to some, any female who enjoys sex is a whore. Apparently you need to degrade a female to make it enjoyable. Well, this is nothing new, it runs through porn in varying degrees, but that's fucked up.

For those who think that jeff mike and wanker wang were just joking, I hope by now you realize they are not. To say that the term 'whore' should not be insulting is not really addressing the issue, because it IS insulting. I guess a male will never know how much, because there is no word that is the male equivalent. Comparing 'slut' with 'stud' doesn't even come close in its implication.

All this attitude does is to reinforce the old 'good girl' 'bad girl' stereotypes that I thought were gone, and it gives one pause about having sex with y'all.

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aybesea
Senior Member

Caroline Cage - Hungarian Hottie!
1485 Posts
5/02

Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 12:18PM

SB... I don't know if you were including me in that pointed statement, but if you were you missed my point by a mile! If not, I humbly apologize for this unsolicited response.

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dumblonde
Senior Member

2352 Posts
7/00

Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 12:41PM

Aybesea, no I didn't mean you, I was referring more to the pornographer's attitudes. I don't think every pornographer has this view of females, but jeff mike implies that it goes hand-in-hand with the territory, and I do think consumers have to share part of the blame.

This is one of the reasons I like my 'couples porn'.

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Hardware

All-Star Member

Your other left
14594 Posts
3/02

Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 12:41PM

@aybesea - the problem I have with your logic is that it assumes that my perception is that the woman is doing something which is abnormal, therefor she must either be superior or inferior to normal women. I think women in porn do things which are unusual, not abnormal; therefor I don't see any reason to deem them sluts, whores, or any other term laden with Victorian disapproval.

Furthermore, I'd like to suggest that if people think that some sexual act is 'nasty' that doesn't give them the right to apply their value system to the people who enjoy or perform that sexual act. That just gives them the right to decline performing or watching that act.

Jeff MIke, et al, are free to think of women any way they choose, but to call someone a name that the person clearly finds derogatory is crude, rude and childish, and has no place in an adult conversation.

@DB - I don't know about Wanker Wang, but Jeff Mike is obviously , as Walter puts it, a troll. Whether he should be allowed to amuse himself at other people's expense is something for the moderators to decide.

I'd address my comment to Jeff Mike directly but he obviously has no respect for anybody's opinion but his own.

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aybesea
Senior Member

Caroline Cage - Hungarian Hottie!
1485 Posts
5/02

Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 12:46PM

Hardware, where did you come to the conclusion that I consider these acts abnormal? I certainly never stated that. I believe I exlusively used the term fantasy. And I believe that this term is very appropriate.

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MessyMarvin
Member

Atlanta
44 Posts
2/03

Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 1:01PM

Wow, quite the hot debate! I think i will put my two cents in now. I assume Jeff was banned for his comments, as it says banned user by his name. I am NOT condoning the type of shit that attacks individuals or women as a group. I would NEVER refer to women in a derogatory fashion such as Wanker and Jeff have done here. I find Wanker's comments to be somewhat amusing, but Jeff stepped over the line here. And he did it on purpose. As to whether they are attempting to stir up the discussion, I don't see that they really believe the comments still. I think just the opposite. They have pushed this topic as hard as they could in order to ellicit a desired response. The fact that anyone would be banned or people would get pissed off is EXACTLY what the goal was from the beginning. Tricia, I agree with you completely. There is a heavy negative connotation on the words whore (and definitely cunt, I hate that word!) in society today. If someone doesn't like to be called these things, then no one should call them that! End of story! Wanker and Jeff would never talk to their mothers like that. And if they would, then that says enough about them anyway. If a woman likes to be called names such as the ones mentioned in this topic, more power to her. If not, then don't fucking do it! All I was saying from the beginning is that Wanker and Jeff were trying to push the discussion into a certain area, and if they weren't spurred on, they would let it go.

"Jane says she's done with Sergio, he treats her like a rag doll"
-Jane's Addiction

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Hardware

All-Star Member

Your other left
14594 Posts
3/02

Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 1:11PM

@Ayb, perhaps I was overreacting to your use of the word 'sluts' in this statement,
"Many of the girls, and the titles that they star in, are created to conjure up fantasies about hot sluts that can't get enough..."

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aybesea
Senior Member

Caroline Cage - Hungarian Hottie!
1485 Posts
5/02

Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 1:15PM

But doesn't the term slut convey "a morally loose woman who wants to fuck on a moment's notice"? Isn't this the fantasy that many of the directors/stars attempt to get our testosterone laced minds to buy into?

I stand by my choice of words.

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Walter Burns
Legendary Quoter

IAFD, supporters of beastiality. Just say no.
7564 Posts
11/02

Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 1:31PM

My mind "fantasizes" about the opposite thing. What is so special about seeing a "slut" being fucked to kingdom come? I don't fantasize about "a morally loose woman who wants to fuck on a moment's notice". I "fantasize" (put between inverted commas, because I am not convinced it is the right word, not in my case at least) about how an "ordinary" (but hopefully exquisite) girl is willing to show me her sexual desires, despite the social stigma surrounding that kind of thing. Like Speelie wrote: "Beautiful women sharing their sexuality with us". The fantasy for me is not the belief that they are "sluts", but the "reality" that they are revealing something of themselves, that they are "giving" me something special. It can be as simple as a quick glimpse of their bodies or as grand as a moment of "blissful rupture".
btw, I have noticed that quite a lot among you have been discussing "blissful rApture" instead of "blissful rUpture". I had to use my dictionary to find out that rapture is indeed very close to rupture in this case, but still, there are important differences. Rapture is only one kind of rupture, so to speak.

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aybesea
Senior Member

Caroline Cage - Hungarian Hottie!
1485 Posts
5/02

Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 1:38PM

Ahh.. but now you have personalized things. I never stated that this was my fantasy, either. I simply opined that there are many stars and directors who proactively purport this fantasy. And I then concluded that if this fantasy were being fostered by the girls involved, it would be hypocritical of them to be upset when the fantasy continued into verbalized discussion.

I personally don't like the slut fantasy at all! I personally want to envision myself doing Tyra Banks or other members of the supermodel elite corps. Hence my fixation on Adamo productions. I absolutely adore truly beautiful women who are dressed, made up, placed in sets, and adopt the personality of truly beautiful women.

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Speelie
Senior Member

Fort Collins, CO
1191 Posts
5/01

Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 1:42PM

Aybesea, I think context is important. I certainly don't believe that you ever attempt to be disrespectful, and my complaint involved deliberately provacative language. I know you are appreciative of what women in porn bring to the movies you and I both enjoy.

Moving on, Tricia was able to simplify my argument into a concise statement, "You don't call your friends by insulting names." Sure, Lucy Lee and Cinderella are not my personal friends, but I think of them with warm feelings, and they pursue the same activity as did Tricia, who I do consider a friend. I find the sex they have on camera to be something of beauty that brings me pleasure, so I extend respect to all of them.

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dumblonde
Senior Member

2352 Posts
7/00

Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 1:48PM

and the first one to use the N word, loses!
<<<<[[

[[

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Walter Burns
Legendary Quoter

IAFD, supporters of beastiality. Just say no.
7564 Posts
11/02

Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 2:33PM

OK, then let me try another, less personalized approach.
Let's agree that there are many stars and directors who proactively purport the fantasy of the girls being "sluts". Why then would it be "hypocritical of them to be upset when the fantasy continued into verbalized discussion"? Well, I don't think that it is hypocritical at all, but just common sense.
According to your theory (which may be valid), as porn stars, they are carriers of an imaginary representation leading to one possible interpretation of the meaning of the word "slut". Why would that imaginary representation have any kind of direct relation with the "real" person behind the imaginary sign that is the "slutty porn star"? In plain English, that would be as foolish as to confuse "reality" with "fantasy".
I have to agree that this topic is in fact not as simple as it seems. Let me put it in as simple terms as I can. I can understand why some people feel the need to call "Tricia Devereaux" a slut or a whore. But "Tricia Devereaux" is not a real person. "Tricia Devereaux" doesn't exists outside the imaginary world of porn. However, Mary Doe (let's assume that this is the real name of the pornstar known as "Tricia Devereaux") is a real person. Calling Mary Doe a slut or a whore is utter bull, mainly because the porn buying public doesn't even know Mary Doe. Furthermore, I can understand why Mary Doe is upset when someone calls "Tricia Devereaux" a slut, because, consciously or not, Mary knows that the insult is meant for both Tricia and Mary and that Mary can only defend herself in public as Tricia.
Am I making any sense here?

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aybesea
Senior Member

Caroline Cage - Hungarian Hottie!
1485 Posts
5/02

Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 2:48PM

As clear as a crystalline stream!

I agree with this line of thought. Like it or not, one cannot blame the consumer for blending/confusing the fantasy with the reality. The same is true of all public figures (sports stars, politicians, etc.) When one chooses to live a life of scrutiny, especially one where a public expectation will be attached to them, one should not be surprised when that repuatation tends to follow them around.

Charles Barkley may be a real sensative, nice guy off of the court. But when he chose to take it up a notch by manhandling a cameraman, he shouldn't be surprised when the fans think that he is a thug!

George Bush may be a kind and gentle soul to his children, but one cannot be held in contempt for thinking he is a hawk.

Likewise, when these ladies try their best to convince us that they are hardcore, down and dirty, nymphettes, they should not be surprised when...

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tricia_devereaux
Evil Angel DVD

Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous?
4283 Posts
4/00

Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 4:03PM

abc -
I guess it's really difficult to describe how difficult it is emotionally to be a porn girl.

There's a lot of things that I did on camera that I wouldn't do in real life, and that's why I respect myself. I wouldn't take money from a perfect stranger (I don't consider people established in the adult business as perfect strangers.)
I've come to accept that there are people in the world who will always think of me as a slut and a whore (by the way, if you have to call me one or the other, I prefer slut). But I guess I always hope that it's just the people who don't like porn. It depresses me a lot when I realize that there's people here in the porn business who think I'm just some mindless slut who isn't good for anything else.
Was I a slut on camera? Absolutely. Off camera? Never. And was/am I mindless. Hell no.

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aybesea
Senior Member

Caroline Cage - Hungarian Hottie!
1485 Posts
5/02

Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 4:10PM

And Tricia, when I made the comment earlier that I only knew a couple of porn stars, you are one of them. I think you are one of the nicest, smartest ladies that I've met in a long time. I also think you are a smokin' slut in your scenes!

Two separate feelings about the same lady!

But that's because I can keep things in some sort of perspective. I'm not at all sure that that ability is something that you can take for granted. It's also because I've met you, and talked with you, and gotten eye contact, etc. Again, not something you can take for granted.

I'm truly not trying to be cold or impersonal. I'm sure it must bother the daylights out of you when someone uses those ridiculous euphemisms on you as a person. But, for those who don't know you, but only know of your work, I cannot blame them (even though I'm not of that persuasion). You chose a very public life and it goes with the territory.

On the other hand, for those who do know you, and still continue to bad mouth you... they need their heads adjusted!!!

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dumblonde
Senior Member

2352 Posts
7/00

Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 4:34PM

But you guys are STILL categorizing females into these ridiculous good girl/bad girl camps! This is 2003, and you're still saying that females cannot be sexual without being thought of as a slut.
Tricia, this is the reason that I object to a certain kind of porn, it just reenforces that stereotype, not because of what people do in the privacy of their homes.

I'm not saying you necessarily Aybesea, but there is this love/hate relationship with porn girls that I don't understand. Jenna gets it a lot too.

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DenverDon
Benevolent

Firmly Embedded in Depravity
5914 Posts
7/02

Posted - Mar 4 2003 : 4:51PM

At the cost of repeating myself, I think Speelie's title to the thread still pretty much says it all:
[/quote]Beautiful women sharing their sexuality with us[/quote]

It is a fantasy world that is being created with the vision/direction that the director and producer want.

It is one thing to say "She turned in a fantastic slutty performance" as opposed to saying she is a slut.

DenverDon

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