Component video output signal dropouts

Author	Post
Drew Black broken crankshaft 8009 Posts 9/99	Posted - Jul 1 2005 : 10:16PM Steph and I were watching Team America tonight on DVD. We've got a Magnavox progressive scan player hooked up to a Samsung plasma TV via component video outputs. During many of the action scenes (and even the puppet sex scene) the video appeared to drop out, blank screen with no signal. The audio continued just fine so I know it wasn't due to a media problem. What would cause this type of problem? I switched over to the S-video output and the problem went away. [Link]
Drew Black broken crankshaft 8009 Posts 9/99	Posted - Jul 1 2005 : 10:25PM A little more info: There are two sets of component inputs. They are both labeled 480i/480p/720p/1080i. The player is a Phillips MX5600D. TV is Samsung HPM4239. Edited by - Drew Black on 7/1/2005 10:26:41 PM [Link]
Bill All-Star Member 5334 Posts 6/00	Posted - Jul 1 2005 : 10:32PM Are all of these components (including the cables) new? Although I'm not a "cable snob", poorly made cables can cause problems. What are you using for your component cables? Can we assume that the DVD player was set to progressive scan? [Link]
Drew Black broken crankshaft 8009 Posts 9/99	Posted - Jul 1 2005 : 10:49PM They cables are most likely the culprit. They are the ones that came with the TV. I rerouted the component video cable so it doesn't run through the back of the TV stand along with the rest of the signal and power cables. (I built the stand and everything runs through a single 1.5" hole in the back. With the cable moved the dropout problem goes away. Yes, the player is in progressive scan mode. [Link]
Bill All-Star Member 5334 Posts 6/00	Posted - Jul 2 2005 : 12:28AM You don't need to spend a lot of money on Component Video Cables. But you do need decent ones. The cables that come with DVD players or TV are typically crap. I've had very good experiences with Acoustic Research cables. You can get a 6 ft set at Best Buy for $30 or a 12 ft set for $40. They're every bit as good as cables that cost upwards of $100. Since you are using the cables that came with the TV and should really upgrade anyway, I would start with them as the likely culprit. Since you need to get them anyway, if it turns out that the TV or DVD player is the problem, you really haven't spend any money that you didn't need to spend anyway. [Link]

pinc_noiz Deactivated User 758 Posts 6/05	Posted - Jul 2 2005 : 7:45AM Drew Black wrote: They cables are most likely the culprit. They are the ones that came with the TV. I rerouted the component video cable so it doesn't run through the back of the TV stand along with the rest of the signal and power cables. (I built the stand and everything runs through a single 1.5" hole in the back. With the cable moved the dropout problem goes away. Click to expand Drew, I admit, I'm a cable-freak ... that is, it's my job to be this way, ahum When you move your cables, which were in a crammed space n(the stand), and the problem disappears, it's likely indeed there's your problem. And yes, good cables don't need to be expensive, just in your case made with good screening (mostly an added alumiumfoil or braided copperlinz outermantel). In general, try to avoid parallel power- and signelcables as these are most likely to interact with each other. As for the signal between source and screen, the videosignal is highest in frequency, and so the most sensitive for these interactions. Try routing the power cable(s) out of the stand (as they now probably still interfere with your renaining signalcables in the stand), and try screened signal cables. p_n [Link]
oatmeal Meat Popsicle Seeking Beauty 1738 Posts 8/04	Posted - Jul 2 2005 : 10:29AM Is there a way to run power and signal cables together in close proximity? Is there any way to shield the power cables to prevent interference? [Link]
Bill All-Star Member 5334 Posts 6/00	Posted - Jul 2 2005 : 10:55AM oatmeal wrote: Is there a way to run power and signal cables together in close proximity? Is there any way to shield the power cables to prevent interference? Click to expand If the signal cables are properly shielded, you will rarely have problems. If it's possible to seperate the power cables from the signal cables, you remove that "rarely" part from the equation. [Link]
pinc_noiz Deactivated User 758 Posts 6/05	Posted - Jul 2 2005 : 11:19AM Try wrapping each cable in alu-foil, start with the powercables. This wouldn't give you the same results as factury made screened cables, as these connect the screening with the ground/neutral from the cable, which I don't recomment to do yourself when inexperienced. You could (or probably would) go one step further by wrapping your signal cables too. Let me ad that when you've proper screened cables, and not have power and signal parallel for more that say 1/5th the lenght of the signalcable in question, it's unlikely to have problems like this. 'Cablesdressing' is the best way to avoid all this: use screened cabling all over, and have ALL your cables only cross at 90 degrees ... (OK, I've more than one fetish obviously) p_n [Link]
Drew Black broken crankshaft 8009 Posts 9/99	Posted - Jul 2 2005 : 6:02PM Thanks for the info. BTW, I'm very familiar with grounding, shielding, EMI, RFI, and coupling effects of AC power lines. I had to take a few dozen products through FCC Class B certification testing. I didn't realize that the 720p signal runs at such a high frequency over these crappy unshielded cables. It's amazing that it worked at all. [Link]
pinc_noiz Deactivated User 758 Posts 6/05	Posted - Jul 4 2005 : 5:12AM Drew Black wrote: I didn't realize that the 720p signal runs at such a high frequency over these crappy unshielded cables. It's amazing that it worked at all. Click to expand shielding your cables will indeed give you a chance to better the quality of picture / sound but who am I to point out that you all have to exchange the 'crappy' cables for proper ones it will pay of though p_n [Link]
Drew Black broken crankshaft 8009 Posts 9/99	Posted - Jul 4 2005 : 1:37PM Strange results. I replaced the cables today with good quality shielded, gold contacts, heavy gauge wire, etc. Picture still goes blank once in a while, primarily during explosions or other times when there's a bright image with a lot of motion. I'm wondering if I should first look at the DVD player or the TV as the next step. The problems go away when I switch the player out of progressive scan mode. [Link]
Bill All-Star Member 5334 Posts 6/00	Posted - Jul 4 2005 : 2:41PM I would go with the DVD player as being the more likely culprit. Do you have anything else that you can test a 480p signal on in order to prove or disprove that the problem is with the DVD player? If not, do you have a second DVD player somewhere else in the house that has progressive scan capabilities. If so, you can use that player to prove whether the TV is the problem or not. The MX5600D is a "Home Theate In a Box" that came out 2003/2004 right? Can we assume that it's not brand new and you can't just take it back to the store as defective and bring home a new one? Because, if you are unable to really test to see if the problem is the TV or DVD player, if you can get an exchange on the HTIB, that's exactly what I would do. [Link]
Drew Black broken crankshaft 8009 Posts 9/99	Posted - Jul 4 2005 : 4:10PM We bought the HTIB in December of last year. We never had any problems until recently. The strange thing is that it works fine in non-progressive scan mode over S-video. We have a friend that house sits for us when we go out of town. I wonder if it's possible that he managed to screw something up? I'm going to try the other set of component inputs on the TV just for shits and giggles. [Link]
Bill All-Star Member 5334 Posts 6/00	Posted - Jul 4 2005 : 4:52PM Drew Black wrote: We bought the HTIB in December of last year. We never had any problems until recently. Click to expand Have you ever tried progressive scan before? The strange thing is that it works fine in non-progressive scan mode over S-video. Click to expand The DVD player has to do more work to make the signal progressive than it does to just send out the interlaced signal. How does it look through component when you turn off the progressive scan? Click to expand [Link]

Drew Black broken crankshaft 8009 Posts 9/99	Posted - Jul 4 2005 : 6:18PM The player has been in progressive scan mode since the day we bought it. Never noticed any problems previously but we don't use it all that often either. Maybe two or three DVDs a month if that much. When I switch to interlaced mode the picture quality does go down a bit, I can see some flicker at close viewing range. The odd thing is that the image still drops out over component video even in interlaced mode. I did one other test. I'm beginning to think that it's the DVD player that's at fault. The player has three screen size settings: 16:9, 4:3 letter box and 4:3 pan and scan. The video dropout only happens in 16:9 mode (either progressive scan or interlaced) but never in either of the 4:3 modes. I can zoom the 4:3 letterbox to approximate the 16:9 but the image quality isn't quite as nice. 16:9 over s-video works as it should (no dropouts) but it's not as crisp an image as component video. Edited by - Drew Black on 7/4/2005 6:18:44 PM [Link]
oatmeal Meat Popsicle Seeking Beauty 1738 Posts 8/04	Posted - Jul 4 2005 : 7:15PM It sounds like you have found a video that can consistently generate this problem. Do any other discs have this problem? Derka Derka [Link]
Bill All-Star Member 5334 Posts 6/00	Posted - Jul 4 2005 : 7:25PM Drew Black wrote: The odd thing is that the image still drops out over component video even in interlaced mode. Click to expand And it only occurs when there is a lot of action occurring? You mentioned the puppet sex scene as one where you lost the picture. I don't remember that scene being one that had lot of things going on (lots of puppet sex, yes. But not lots of action filling the screen). If we take away the premise that this only occurs when there is a lot of stuff going on in the picture, I'm starting to think that there may be a loose solder joint at the component jacks in either the TV or DVD player. See if you can make the problem happen by grabbing the component cables at their ends and wiggling them a bit if you can make the problem occur. If this is the problem, a possible reason that it may occur more often during action scenes is that those scenes are typically louder than other scenes in the movie, which could cause vibrations in the room. Those vibrations could expose a bad internal connection. [Link]
Drew Black broken crankshaft 8009 Posts 9/99	Posted - Jul 4 2005 : 10:29PM I had to return the rental of Team America. I've been testing with Return of the Jedi. The problem is highly repeatable at any volume. It drops out at exactly the same spot, takes a second or two to think or resync and then the video is fine until the next burst of action. I'm beginning to think that it's just a shitty DVD player. The decoder engine must not be up to generating a smooth video stream for progressive scan playback. [Link]
Bill All-Star Member 5334 Posts 6/00	Posted - Jul 4 2005 : 11:03PM That's what I was originally thinking until you told me that you've been watching it in progressive scan mode since the day you bought it. You would think that if the DVD player wasn't up to the task, you would have noticed it a long time ago. [Link]
Drew Black broken crankshaft 8009 Posts 9/99	Posted - Jul 5 2005 : 12:07AM I guess it's just another example of getting what you pay for. [Link]
jrv Senior Member 1266 Posts 2/03	Posted - Jul 5 2005 : 1:38AM Neither the cables nor the connectors know when the puppets are doing naughty things or when there is an action scene. There's nothing in the signal there to trigger them to fail. There's a fair amount of software running in a DVD player as well as fancy variable-bit-rate stuff, etc. I'd be tempted to think in terms of a player bug in firmware or the decoder. Cables do need to meet minimum specs, especially for 720p, but the real quality issue is the way the cable is mated to the connector - the part you can't see. Unless you believe in water-insulated oxygen-free silver cables... [Link]
pinc_noiz Deactivated User 758 Posts 6/05	Posted - Jul 5 2005 : 2:47AM jrv wrote: Unless you believe in water-insulated oxygen-free silver cables... Click to expand ahum: I'm a believer But more important: as I do not know your gear, it's hard to help out, but look at the settings on your TV: when they're set as to expect a s-video / 480p / 4:3 / non-progressive scan signal (and/or), it will have a hard time handling any other signal. So check these settings, match these with the output signal set om your DVD and try again. On some TV sets the settings are easy accessable, def so when your in for some tweaking between 16:9 and 4:3 settings ("let's see what happens when I switch the TV so as said on the DVD box-cover" ...). As we all enjoy the scenes with heavy action going on (sic), this is one nasty problem: succes p_n [Link]
Drew Black broken crankshaft 8009 Posts 9/99	Posted - Jul 5 2005 : 8:28AM The TV automatically detects the signal rate. When I switch the DVD player from progressive scan to interlaced or vice versa there's a corresponding informational string ot text on the TV. i.e. "Progressive video" or "interlaced video". There's also an info button on the remote that will display the current resolution and frame rate. I think it was detecting 72 hex 480p for progressive scan mode. [Link]
pinc_noiz Deactivated User 758 Posts 6/05	Posted - Jul 6 2005 : 1:54AM a visit to the DVD doctor is maybe a good idea afterall sorry jrv wrote: ... /There's a fair amount of software running in a DVD player as well as fancy variable-bit-rate stuff, etc. I'd be tempted to think in terms of a player bug in firmware or the decoder./... Click to expand p_n [Link]