Directors and Writers missing the obvious?

Author	Post
Jaktarn Senior Member 4798 Posts 5/05	Posted - Dec 10 2009 : 5:19AM Just want to rant about something that I have noticed a couple of times lately about narrative in storybased porn for instance all the episodes on naughty office, naughty athletics, my friends hot mom etc. Why dont director try to maximise the setup of their choosen "cheesy porn storyline" often its almost irritating to the viewer when it keeps happening. For instance when I see an episode of My friends hot mom, of course I want to see the best friend come home in the end of the scene screaming and yelling on them. It can't be that hard hiring or getting an voluntaire extra in the scene that can actually deliver the few lines needed. Another example of poor directing/writing is in the latest episode of Naughty Office with Shyla Stylez waiting to get in on a job interview when waiting outside together with an other applicant they of course find an office and gets it on. And the scene just ends when they are finished of course the twist would have been that one of them was actually the boss and that the "fuck" was the interview. I know that a lot of you will be saying WTF it's porn. I don't care for the plot! I agree but still I believe that directors should try to get the best out of the scenes in this way it isn't that difficult you know, either I am very talented in porn narrative or they suck at it. I'll update this with more examples when I stumble upon them. [Link]
Len801 Deactivated User 754 Posts 9/07	Posted - Dec 10 2009 : 11:26AM If things don't make much sense in mainstream movies (horror, sci-fi and thrillers in particular) what do you expect from say a 20-30 minute (hc) clip/scene? If there were a couple of people overseeing the plot line before shooting/production began, if there was a someone supervising it all, and would say sorry this is nonsense remove this, put this in, yes I suppose, but they are churning that stuff faster than they can handle, so things like strong plotlines fall by the wayside.... The motto is "shoot fast and keep costs down". [Link]
markaudess Marie Madison Media 68 Posts 2/04	Posted - Dec 10 2009 : 12:17PM 'WTF It's Porn...' is an excuse that doesn't fly with me. It's still entertainment, and I think it's just lazyness or as Len801 pointed out, many companies treat their productions like an assembly line, and these details aren't paid attention to. Or maybe it's an economic issue, where a 'Script Supervisor' is a position some companies can't afford, or choose not to. Don't make the mistake of thinking it's all porn, as it's obviously not. Directors like Paul Thomas, Joone and Brad Armstrong seem to go out of their way to 'get it right' right down to the very last detail. The flagship production at Maddy G Productions, "Inside Marie's Play Place" is scripted out months in advance, and because the story lines continue thruout the entire series, a 'Script Supervisor' is a neccessity for us to keep track of the characters, not just where they are now, but where they've been, and how their current story fits in with what's already been shot and what's coming up in future series. It's not possible to shoot this type of project on an 'assembly line', it requires a lot of attention to detail and forthought to every scene. It's not always easy, in fact, it's one of the most difficult series we have in production, but anyone thinking you can pop out a dozen look alike titles a month and maintain quality across the board is crazy. - Mark Maddy G Productions Home of the World's First Adult Sitcom [Link]
bigswede New Member 5 Posts 7/10	Posted - Aug 2 2010 : 10:45AM Who cares? Nobody watches the plot of a porn movie anyway. It's about the sex, not the lame ass plot of the badly written, badly produced, badly acted production. Think about it this way. For some reason, up until lately, porn tried to emulate the mainstream biz -- story driven film with sex in it. And let's be very honest. There is only one area where porn can match the mainstream biz, and that's with the quality of women entering. Not one single other area other than lots of fine women entering the biz can porn compete with mainstream Hollywood. So in every other area -- the men (dregs mostly), the production values, the directing, the writing, the acting, all are many steps below what would be considered the standard in the mainstream world, so right there you set yourself up for failure. And what good is the script going to be when the actors can't act -- they're paid to screw, not act. Or the set design when the camera work and directing and editing are shoddy. And even if, somehow, everything came together, it wouldn't matter because no matter how good the story is, it won't work if you pause every twenty minutes to have a fifteen minute screw break. Not even Chris Nolan could make that work. So why not ditch the whole outdated plot based porn altogether? I'd much rather know actual details about the performer I'm jerking to than about her story character. Rant ended. [Link]
robocop Member 200 Posts 7/10	Posted - Aug 2 2010 : 11:04AM A little bit of narrative in a porn can IMO actually make things more intense. This should be kept rather simple though. Guy fucks babysitter, wife catches them, wife and babysitter go at it together. This little bit of narrative is hotter than directly diving into the threesome (even though it's cheesy). I'm with Jaktarn that if they choose to go with a narrative, they should follow through all the way till the end and not take the easy way out and 'forget' about the narrative. 20 seconds of extra time to round off the story is not much to ask. [Link]

Jaktarn Senior Member 4798 Posts 5/05	Posted - Aug 2 2010 : 12:56PM robocop wrote: A little bit of narrative in a porn can IMO actually make things more intense. This should be kept rather simple though. Guy fucks babysitter, wife catches them, wife and babysitter go at it together. This little bit of narrative is hotter than directly diving into the threesome (even though it's cheesy). I'm with Jaktarn that if they choose to go with a narrative, they should follow through all the way till the end and not take the easy way out and 'forget' about the narrative. 20 seconds of extra time to round off the story is not much to ask. Click to expand Exactly my point! Couldn't have formulated it better. Its disturbing when they setup an obvious setup but don't follow it through. [Link]
Gore Gore Girl Doctor of the Erotic Arts 7238 Posts 1/09	Posted - Aug 2 2010 : 2:52PM bigswede wrote: Who cares? Nobody watches the plot of a porn movie anyway. It's about the sex, not the lame ass plot of the badly written, badly produced, badly acted production. Click to expand Well, a cursory glance around ADT will show you you're wrong in your absolutist generalization. It's a real shame you've missed out on all the excellent (brilliantly acted, brilliantly produced, brilliantly written...and with hot sex to boot) plot-based XXX films that exist, but I get the impression that you wouldn't give two shits about seeking any of those flicks out. Either way, you don't have to remove feature porn from the face of the earth in order to enjoy your particular brand of xxx. And even if, somehow, everything came together, it wouldn't matter because no matter how good the story is, it won't work if you pause every twenty minutes to have a fifteen minute screw break. Not even Chris Nolan could make that work. Click to expand Works for musicals... For me, sex acts can be signifiers, and the eroticism of a scene is profoundly effected by the context, even if that context is an opening interview in a Mason movie, or the unspoken dynamic between two partners. In feature length narrative porn, some of the best, most erotic sex scenes work due to carefully constructed context. [Link]
The Ghost of Cal Jammer Senior Member 2207 Posts 7/09	Posted - Aug 2 2010 : 3:09PM If these details interested the people making porn films they wouldn't be making porn films in the first place. [Link]
bigswede New Member 5 Posts 7/10	Posted - Aug 2 2010 : 4:49PM GGG, ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, a cursory glance around ADT will show you you're wrong in your absolutist generalization. It's a real shame you've missed out on all the excellent (brilliantly acted, brilliantly produced, brilliantly written...and with hot sex to boot) plot-based XXX films that exist, but I get the impression that you wouldn't give two shits about seeking any of those flicks out. Either way, you don't have to remove feature porn from the face of the earth in order to enjoy your particular brand of xxx. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Agreed. I believe in choices. No need we can't have both. I'm just thankful the godawful porn of yesteryear has changed - and likely for good. The mimicking of a Hollywood feature film just to insert sex scenes into was a bad idea, one doomed to failure for the reasons I mentioned earlier. But if that floats people's boats, the porn companies will continue make plot porn. Then you compared musicals to porn, which is a poor comparison. First of all, musicals ARE hard to pull off. When's the last time you saw one? The music and production numbers have to be well integrated with the story, and the directors/writers are aware of the disconnect an audience has when a character just breaks out in song. [Marshall and Condon changed Nine for this very reason. Instead of characters just breaking out in song and killing the suspension of disbelief, they made it so all the songs were just in the main character's head.] But in a musical, the performers must be proficient at acting, singing, dancing (I've seen a few that couldn't sing, though). What porn stars are as good at acting as they are a sexing? There lies the problem. The story exists only to put in fucking scenes. In a musical, the songs exist to serve the story. And kindly point out to me any porno flicks that have brilliant writing, acting, and production values. I'd like to check that our for myself. I remember watching some documentary on the porn biz a few years ago, and the costume designer at Vivid pretty much writes all their scripts -- usually only takes her a day or two. Brilliant? I have my doubts. [Link]
Fergus Member Oh yeah... boot me, baby 276 Posts 12/06	Posted - Aug 2 2010 : 5:09PM The Ghost of Cal Jammer wrote: If these details interested the people making porn films they wouldn't be making porn films in the first place. Click to expand Well, uh, no. People posting in this thread have referred to porn films where there is plot, and plot that matters to the sex. Some producers do it, whether you've seen it or not, whether it fits your speculations about their motives or not. And I'll add another studio that cares about plot - Venus Girls. I don't know if it applies to all their flicks, but I've seen half a dozen and the plot and character interplay has been significant every time. In their femdom stuff it helps establish how come the woman is in charge. How come little Jasmine Byrne has enough influence over a muscular bloke to give him a tease and denial handjob lasting most of an hour? The psychology matters too much to miss out. In their more mainstream stuff they still handle it so there is sense to what's happening, including touches like the flatmate coming home and being shocked at Jayna Oso getting an anal hammering on the couch. Etc. I know most producers aren't doing it, and they'll still sell their movies to the people who just want the action. Most porn consumers are apparently happy to watch selected sex acts with no rhyme or reason. People start fucking, and they do what the boxcover says. That's the 'plot' of most gonzo porn. It's sex that exists in a conceptual and psychological vacuum. But most people's experience of sex isn't that you just start fucking and it doesn't matter if you want to jam your dick in her mouth or your foot up her ass, she just goes along. Not quite. For most people there's rhyme and reason, context, conceptual framework, psychological significance. There's cause and effect leading up to the sex, and there are consequences afterwards. I like the no-context movies too, and I don't expect anything much to change. But when I see the hottest action in the context of production values, like script supervision, that actually have me half-believing I'm being told a story rather than just being shown people hired to shag - that's good stuff. [Link]
pat362 Senior Member 10081 Posts 3/10	Posted - Aug 2 2010 : 9:23PM I prefer plot driven movies or scenes because those are the kind of movies that I first saw and a plot adds some emotions to the scene. I'm going far back for most of you but I often think of "The seduction of Lynn carter" is a good example of why I love this movie. If the movie was simply a woman doing various sex act with an actor like in gonzo porn then we wouldn't be curious to see what she'll do next. We wouldn't feel the anticipation of what will happen in the scene and without a plot, we are left with a couple of people F..g in various positions for no other reason than they got paid to do it. Of course the problem that can arrise from any plot driven scene or movie is that the talent isn't up to the task or the people directing are incompetent. In both cases the scene will be ruined faster than if it was pure gonzo with no plot or dialogue except Oh God..Oh God. [Link]
RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Aug 3 2010 : 1:26AM bigswede wrote: Who cares? Nobody watches the plot of a porn movie anyway. It's about the sex, not the lame ass plot of the badly written, badly produced, badly acted production. Click to expand I would only agree if it's a long, drawn-out plot. I would then say that MOST PEOPLE don't watch porn for that. But some people still do and some of them are here in this forum. However, a little bit of a cute setup or something for a clip or a scene can work wonders if it's done right. Especially if it's carried on through the sex. I find this kind of stuff works way better if it's done in a light hearted kind of teasing way than if they try to hard to be convincing. So why not ditch the whole outdated plot based porn altogether? Click to expand Because it tends to make the whole affair cold and mechanical and sterile when the people involved are not behaving in any way like human beings. I'd much rather know actual details about the performer I'm jerking to than about her story character. Click to expand You have a point but what if she doesn't actually like sex? [Link]
Gore Gore Girl Doctor of the Erotic Arts 7238 Posts 1/09	Posted - Aug 3 2010 : 8:33AM bigswede wrote: ... the godawful porn of yesteryear has changed - and likely for good. The mimicking of a Hollywood feature film just to insert sex scenes into was a bad idea, one doomed to failure for the reasons I mentioned earlier. Click to expand I find it odd you have this impression of old porn - porn from the 70s, 80s, and partially the 90s (on a good day) is the best, most fully integrated porn out there (and as features go, the hottest, due to the reasons I mentioned above). All my recommendations below are "porn of yesteryear." Then you compared musicals to porn, which is a poor comparison. Click to expand I don't think it's a poor comparison if we're talking about the same brilliantly made - yes, "brilliantly" - films that truly do integrated sex and narrative in a similar way to a musical. If you'd like to read a genuinely fascinating analysis of how feature porn and musicals share the same generic structures, read "Number and Narrative" a chapter from Linda Williams' Hard Core: Power, Pleasure, and the Frenzy of the Visible. In terms of more recent porn, I agree with you to an extent, but my musical comparison was regarding the integrated and well produced films that prove porn can indeed be a genre where sex is part of the storytelling. And kindly point out to me any porno flicks that have brilliant writing, acting, and production values. I'd like to check that our for myself. I remember watching some documentary on the porn biz a few years ago, and the costume designer at Vivid pretty much writes all their scripts -- usually only takes her a day or two. Brilliant? I have my doubts. Click to expand I'd love to! You'd benefit from checking out the "feature section" where feature fans' lists are up, but off the top of my head, Talk Dirty to Me/Nothing to Hide, American Desire, Amanda by Night, The Ecstasy Girls, Opening of Misty Beethoven, Devil in Miss Jones, Roommates, Private Afternoons of Pamela Mann... I'm sure you'll find a bounty of titles from other members too. Of course, there are fewer recent films that come close to the quality of the aforementioned flicks, but there are a handful (I liked Cry Wolf). [Link]
T0MBOne Senior Member 1200 Posts 5/08	Posted - Aug 3 2010 : 4:08PM Listen to Gore Gore. Musicals are typically about putting on a show and thereby integrating singing and dancing into what's normally a thread bare "the show must go on" plot line. Some great musicals and many, many lesser musicals follow that basic plot line. The popular TV show GLEE does this every episode. I gravitate towards features that integrate xxx scenes with sexual themes/adult relationships into what usually amounts to a thin plot line. (Get the connection to musicals yet?) Some of these low budget Adult films emerged in the '70s and early '80s mostly because these filmmakers aspired to achieve at least something of what the great films of the late-60s to mid-70s (and earlier) had achieved. Watch something like HER NAME WAS LISA and notice that they've updapted Joe Mankiewicz's BAREFOOT CONTESSA (1954) into an ultra-low budget but well-crafted xxx film with a tough '70s drug theme thrown in for good measure. Read some of my reviews of recent Wicked features where I try to steer those folks into making the types of films that so many of us would rather see and, ahem, pay for. If there's a will, there's a way. Edited by - T0MBOne on 8/3/2010 4:11:22 PM Edited by - T0MBOne on 8/3/2010 11:06:38 PM [Link]
juha Senior Member 2752 Posts 3/05	Posted - Aug 3 2010 : 6:07PM T0MBOne wrote: Listen to Gore Gore. Musicals are typically about putting on a show ... Click to expand What you describe is the subgenre "backstage musical". Musicals work with all different storylines. Just to name a few: West Side Story My Fair Lady Silk Stockings [Link]

shalalin Senior Member 1733 Posts 11/07	Posted - Aug 4 2010 : 1:04PM I dare say the reason Brazzers and NA usually don't do post-scene wrapups is that they've successfully conditioned their audience to accept that the setups only go in front of the sex, so there's just not much visible interest. That said, Brazzers occasionally still does bring the 'storyline' to a conclusion, but primarily when they're going for a twist ending. [Link]
Aplus Senior Member 1431 Posts 5/05	Posted - Aug 4 2010 : 2:25PM Jaktarn wrote: Just want to rant about something that I have noticed a couple of times lately about narrative in storybased porn for instance all the episodes on naughty office, naughty athletics, my friends hot mom etc. Why dont director try to maximise the setup of their choosen "cheesy porn storyline" often its almost irritating to the viewer when it keeps happening. For instance when I see an episode of My friends hot mom, of course I want to see the best friend come home in the end of the scene screaming and yelling on them. It can't be that hard hiring or getting an voluntaire extra in the scene that can actually deliver the few lines needed. Another example of poor directing/writing is in the latest episode of Naughty Office with Shyla Stylez waiting to get in on a job interview when waiting outside together with an other applicant they of course find an office and gets it on. And the scene just ends when they are finished of course the twist would have been that one of them was actually the boss and that the "fuck" was the interview. Click to expand While I do understand what you're saying, I gotta admit that I don't necessarily expect that in those vignette type scenes or films. I tend to expect that more in "true" feature films that have a continuous storyline. I'm not against though, as long as the post-head ending/post-head foreplay isn't cut short to get it in. I think that what happens immediately after the guy cums is just as important and can sometimes be the hottest thing. I just got through "quickly" watching 3 films that fit your description. They were My Sisters Hot Friend #3, My Friend's Hot Mom #8, and Naughty Office #11. My Sisters Hot Friend #3 didn't have any sisters showing up at the end, which probably would have been too weird or creepy for most people I suspect. Might be borderline legally too, but I'm not sure. My Friends Hot Mom #8, also didn't have the son showing up at the end, which again might have been too much for many. I will say that a few of the scenes didn't appear to have much to do with the title though. Naughty Office #11 was actually one of the better vignette type films I've seen in a while. The first "extended" scene with Abbey Brooks and her co-worker, that proceeds to her scene with her male boss, played great I thought. And the last scene that has Penny Flame (channeling Lois Lane) fucking her male co-worker, and then her male boss, with a short bj scene with another girl inbetween, was damn near brilliant IMO. My conclusion is that most of these scenes don't really need a person arriving at the end, or an exact ending, to be affective. Scenes like that are only as good as the woman carrying them though. [Link]
bigswede New Member 5 Posts 7/10	Posted - Sep 27 2010 : 12:22AM I'd love to! You'd benefit from checking out the "feature section" where feature fans' lists are up, but off the top of my head, Talk Dirty to Me/Nothing to Hide, American Desire, Amanda by Night, The Ecstasy Girls, Opening of Misty Beethoven, Devil in Miss Jones, Roommates, Private Afternoons of Pamela Mann... I'm sure you'll find a bounty of titles from other members too. Of course, there are fewer recent films that come close to the quality of the aforementioned flicks, but there are a handful (I liked Cry Wolf). Click to expand I'll take you up on your offer and try to check those titles out. I've never actually watched a 'feature' porn movie all the way through before. I imagine most people haven't either, unless their remote is broken. The only time I will watch the non-sex stuff is the 'behind the scenes' footage, but only when it's interesting. So this will be my first. I'll judge it the way I would a feature film. Since I'm a semi-pro screenwriter (sold but not produced... yet), I'm pretty familiar with the nuts and bolts of storytelling/film-making. If I see anything above 'servicable' in a porn flick, I'll be surprised. I don't mean sound or even lighting, I mean a biggee like writing, acting, directing. We'll see. [Link]
DuxRyu Member USA 44 Posts 11/06	Posted - Oct 10 2010 : 8:11PM Vignette porn drives me crazy if they don't even put some work into the costumes, setting, etc. Can you imagaine watching a porn that used the same striped couch in front of plaid wallpaper? Or how about the bed with no sheets and the sound of cars driving by? ;-) I Love Lanny - watched a few times. Only because girls are HOT and there's some element of style to it, or there's the twosome that becomes threesome. My dream is to turn the Indigo Playboy like movies from the 90s into hard core porn. House of Love, Girl for Girl, Embrace the Darkness, Voyeur Confessions. Only with more than the occasional crotch shot.Oh my. Dux [Link]
Stalag Deactivated User 476 Posts 1/10	Posted - Apr 6 2011 : 7:06PM Steve Tyler should direct. [Link]