It's safe to say that everyone has done things they're ashamed of -- whether or not they should be. Shame is a strange thing.
But attempting to predict what causes other people to feel shame is a doubtful enterprise.
When Haze says that porn performers must feel ashamed of bukkakes, ass-licking, and licking cum off the floor, he's doing nothing more than telling us what he'd feel ashamed of doing. He makes the unwarranted assumption that his own feelings and responses are universal -- or that they should be.
But Hardware said the same thing in his response to Haze at the top of this thread.
The rest of this thread is simply about what individual posters are or are not ashamed of, or what they want or don't want other people to be ashamed of.
So what if they are? Once again, they're all adults. If you offer me $100 to slap me, punch me, kick me, whatever on camera and I accept, maybe I like it. Or, maybe it's worth it to me. Whatever.
For those who like watching it and jerk off to it, maybe they have issues. OK...whatever. Everybody has issues. They're just different...depending on the person. I'm surprised anybody in this society is even partially sane. As long as nobody dies or gets seriously hurt and it;s all consensual....people really need to just leave them alone.
Women have far more freedom, opportunities and ways to express themselves today than they ever have before. Nobody forces a woman to do something like porn. And if someone does try, they usually don't keep their own freedom for very long.
There is a market for this kind of thing. Both sadists and masochists enjoy watching it and get off on it. I'm more of a masochist myself. Yeah...a male masochist is kind of a rare bird but I enjoy the whole dynamic. I can identify with the submissiveness of the sub, whether they're male or female. It's just a voyeuristic pleasure for me to see two (or more) people mutually enjoying their kink.
Having said that....maybe it's not so great to have it on video for just anyone to view because a whole lot of people very clearly don't get it at all and will eventually cause problems for everyone because they can't just go watch something else more to their liking.
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the unknown pervert Deactivated User
I'd like to stay but I've got a plane to catch. 3243 Posts 5/06
Wouldn't it also be naive to assume that's the only possible interpretation? What would the interpretation be if the focus of that scene had been a guy, and it had been a gay gang bang?
I would feel ashamed of myself if I found the Roxy Jezel scene you described arousing. Actually, I'd feel ashamed just to watch it, because my instinctive reaction would be to feel that I was watching someone get badly hurt without responding against it. I do occasionally start to feel ashamed about a scene I'm watching, so I stop watching it. I vote with the remote, and also with my dollars by trying not to buy such stuff, and also by saying what I think where relevant.
I hate the 'worthless cum dump' paradigm. I do like gang bangs and cum showers and various other things which turn up in those movies, but I only like them if they're not IMO in a 'worthless cum dump' paradigm. In the right atmosphere I like them, in the wrong atmosphere I am repulsed by them. I haven't seen a Gang Bang Auditions for years because I was repulsed by them.
like I said, Mr. Wang, I like your films very much…other than that one scene, the talent geniunely seem to be enjoying themselves in your work, and you seem to be a good natured guy, and that translates in your films. And I also said that I completely believe that Roxy consented 100% with what was intended with that scene.
but I'll cop to that I don't know for sure why the scene was made. My best guess is that scenes where a bunch of guys go through the motions of debasing a woman are made because the film makers know there is a demand for it. And that demand, IMO, is based on misogyny, which is of course an ancient tendency and has thousands of manifestations in modern life.
Now, I wouldn't deny that a blowjob, slapping or ass-fucking in many cases carries the charge of "I am a man! Now service me!" But when those things have happened in my own life, my partners did those things because they unambiguously felt good and exciting to them. Or so I believe: fuck, maybe they wanted me to treat them like shit! Anyone here is free to suggest that any kind of non-vanilla sex carries a dom-sub charge, but the scenes I tend to respond to are not ones that revolve around anger…at least that is my impression. As for gang bangs, I've seen ones with, like Tory Lane, and other people where the female gives back as good as she gets against a bunch of dudes: when a gal shows that she is in fact control of what's going on, that doesn't disturb me at all.
in any case, I examine my own assumptions and preferences every day, and it seems to me that anyone who wants to masterbate to James Deen and co. being really really punitive towards Roxy in that scene should ask themselves why they like it, what it means, etc etc. again, I bear no grudge against the individuals involved in the scene…
and I probably wouldn't like watching a chicken-y looking, bottom guy getting gang banged by a bunch of butchy tops. Actually, it might be really interesting, but male-male sex doesn't turn me on, and the whole dynamic is much, much different between a bunch of guys than btwn 5 dudes and a gal.
Women who have ownership of their sexuality make porn make sense. A lot of performers are "faking it," and for them I think there could be a lot of shame. But for certain people, the frontiers of human sexuality are the only place to be. You've got Evil Knievel, you've got astronauts, you've got peyote shamans in the rain forest, you've got avant-garde jazz ... why not have beautiful women swallowing 17 cumshots, if that turns them on? Everyone has a different drive towards self-actualizaton and transcending their mortal nature, if only for a moment.
I believe I've already given as candid a response as you're ever gonna get from a male who watches and strokes to this stuff in another thread. I can't remember the name of the thread but if you do a search on my SN and relevant keywords, it shouldn't be too hard to find.
It's not really all that relevant to me why I like it. I do and that probably isn't going to change in the foreseeable future. Sometimes, you can over-analyze these sorts of things. Sometimes, you might have a hundred questions and no answers. Or, when you find one answer, it might lead to a hundred more questions. I'm not gonna attempt self-therapy because I like something some people dislike. I don't have that much of a problem with it. I watch whatever I'm in the mood for today, blow my load, put it back in my pants and get on with it. If it's that much of an issue for some other people that they can't just live and let live, in my view, they're the ones who need some therapy.
I think it's unfortunate that some people don't know the difference between fantasy and role-playing and reality. I don't, by any stretch of the imagination, enjoy knowing that women really get hurt badly or killed in reality by people who don't make any distinctions. That's sad. I agree. I will admit that I have some misogynistic feelings within my being. And I believe that virtually every man does. I believe that any man who denies it is well, in denial. It is natural for people to have feelings of anger towards other people.
But at the same time, I love women and what I enjoy seeing most of all is a woman enjoying herself sexually, expressing her sexuality in whatever way she desires and getting off. That's the bottom line for me. If it doesn't get her off, it's pointless. If shame, degradation, humiliation, slapping and whatever is what she grooves on, great! If not, I'm equally happy watching whatever she likes doing. I'm not about pushing a woman farther than she wants to go just for my own gratification. I don't enjoy watching people who are miserable. But I think some folks see a hard scene and they think the girl must be miserable because they would be in the same circumstances. But that is fairly unlikely (although possible). Most of the girls who do rough scenes do a lot of them. They wouldn't keep doing them if they were miserable the whole time. A good looking woman can do 100% softcore and make a good living at it.
At any rate.....I never, ever look at a porn picture or video and think to myself that the woman or women should be ashamed of themselves. Nor would I treat them any differently than anyone else if I knew them. They are human beings and what they do does not make them any less human to my eyes. In fact, porn girls might be more human than some of the supposedly "respectable" people I know and have known. What I see in porn is a beautiful woman who has chosen (for whatever reason) to share herself. I would prefer that they all did it because they wanted to but realistically, that just isn't ever going to be the case in any profession. There will always be people who hate what they do. But I have seen women who were clearly enjoying themselves on screen (and yes...I can tell the difference). How many people can truly say they enjoy their jobs?
this topic makes me think about something Tyffany Million said a number of years ago on Dr Natasha Terry's radio sex show. I almost certain it was Dr Natasha's show even though it could've been Stern's show. But anyway Million was recounting her time in porn and was passing out advice to young up and coming stars to get into porn when you're young, as early as you can, don't wait. To me she was implying a lot about herself in that she regretted not getting into porn a lot earlier than when she did. I dont think she felt ashamed about anything, just not taking advantage of getting into XXX in her early 20s when she had the chance.
LMAOOO Well get use to watching me fuck again. This time with big tits and even more enthusiasm than before.
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john thomas Deactivated User
1168 Posts 6/06
Posted - Mar 5 2007 : 8:51PM
I just needed the name of someone in porn called Thomas to make the gag. It came down to you, Sunset Thomas or Paul Thomas and I went with you. I didn't mean anything by it.
that is a very easy thing to get use to. watching you fuck is great and watching you fuck with bigger tits will be even better. can't wait to watch you in a gangbang with your new body!!!
Agreed. I get turned off when people are obviously not showing enjoyment. A bored girl in a sex scene lessens the experience. A girl that seems to be in pain, drugged or almost passed out, completely ruins the experience.
I don't know if it is empathy, my upbringing, how my brain is wired, but it is most definetly a turnoff. On the other hand, I can push my borders slightly if the persons involved are really into what they're doing. Up to a certain limit of course.
Edited by - BigMatt on 3/6/2007 8:04:48 AM
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HornyBastard Deactivated User
41 Posts 3/10
Posted - Mar 29 2010 : 10:30AM
if it wasn't degrading, what would be the point? just face it: porn for the most part is degrading, which is the reason anyone watches it in the first place (unless you're watching that lame ass vivid video type porn). nobody watches porn because they think it's "art". that's total bullshit. we love to see beautiful women degrade themselves. period. and the girls get off on the fact that they're degrading themselves. we would be naive to think they do it just for the money. Edited by - HornyBastard on 3/29/2010 10:31:10 AM Edited by - HornyBastard on 3/29/2010 10:32:17 AM
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HornyBastard Deactivated User
41 Posts 3/10
Posted - Mar 29 2010 : 10:42AM
he didn't say "eating things" off a floor is degrading. he said slurping cum off a floor before the entire world (including friends and family) is degrading and anyone who says otherwise is delusional at best. you seem very manipulative and that's fine. i guess it's what you have to do, to do what you do. Edited by - HornyBastard on 3/29/2010 10:44:25 AM
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HornyBastard Deactivated User
41 Posts 3/10
Posted - Mar 29 2010 : 11:03AM
so who exactly are these "victims" that you're referring to? you're not referring to these grown ass women who are being payed to humiliate themselves are you (most of whome get off on it anyway)? i think you need to be careful who you're calling a victim.
We're gonna take it outside and I'm gonna show you what it's like! 1660 Posts 2/06
Posted - Mar 29 2010 : 11:07AM
^You realise this thread is three years old right? Boogie Nights and Swiss_Pornaddict no longer even post here and haven't for a long time.
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HornyBastard Deactivated User
41 Posts 3/10
Posted - Mar 29 2010 : 11:17AM
i realize the thread is 3 years old, but the only thing you told me that really matters is that they no longer post here. thanks for the heads up...i guess...
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Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - Mar 29 2010 : 9:52PM
if it wasn't degrading, what would be the point? just face it: porn for the most part is degrading, which is the reason anyone watches it in the first place (unless you're watching that lame ass vivid video type porn). nobody watches porn because they think it's "art". that's total bullshit. we love to see beautiful women degrade themselves. period. and the girls get off on the fact that they're degrading themselves. we would be naive to think they do it just for the money. Edited by - HornyBastard on 3/29/2010 10:31:10 AM Edited by - HornyBastard on 3/29/2010 10:32:17 AM
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Huh???????????????? IMHO, about the only correct thing you've said is that "Nobody watches because they think it's art"
Porn that tries to be degrading is generally stupid and boring, and now it's the vast majority of the porn market. Even lesbian porn is moving in this direction. That's another factor in the decline of revenue. Directors who try to make performers seem worthless make their own videos worthless. Edited by - charn on 3/29/2010 10:32:24 PM
Old topic I agree, but one further point... anyone feel guilty after masterbating? This is ridiculous -- someone is watching otherwise it wouldn't be produced. This is a profitable (generally speaking) industry. If there was not a market, then it wouldn't be produced. Do some people feel guilty for performing? Probably. But this is up to one's own morals versus life's necessities. To whit, I do suspect a larger population feels guilty for watching it. One is not better than the other. However, to put a fine point on it, the viewer is much more guilty for necessitating the product.
Funny thing is, I agree ;) Beauty is i the eye of the beholder.... as is obscenity and degradation IMO. I find everything "horrible" I do on camera to be hilarious and depending on what it is, fun and/or hot. I know girls in the business who think some things like, for example, guys pushing their head down during a BJ to be degrading, that's their opinion and they can voice this before a scene as something they don't want done. If they allow things to happen in a scene that they really have issues with then I feel bad for them not "standing up for themselves". If I did things on camera that really fucked with my head I'd be a mess and hate my life. Every set I've ever been on has always been fun so anything I've ever done on camera was in fun, like snorting cum for instance. Both times of done this it was my idea and some people probably think its disgusting, others maybe think its hot, some will think its crazy/funny, and some people will think I had a gun to my head and after the scene I took a rape shower, snorted bleach, and then spent 3 days in a crappy motel room doing meth and crying naked in the corner, LMAO. We all have different outlooks is my point. I just try to have fun, its a controlled environment, I'll live. Of course there are things I will NEVER do, not many things but there are a few ;) I have issues with those things and therefore nothing will ever sucker me into doing them. My limit is my limit and thankfully I'm strong enough to not do anything I think I will regret ;) Sorry for the rant, hope I made sense. xoxo Kelly Divine
We're gonna take it outside and I'm gonna show you what it's like! 1660 Posts 2/06
Posted - Mar 30 2010 : 4:46PM
^Seeing as there are many people on this board, one on this very page, who make their living from this industry boasting about stealing it isn't something you be advised to do.
You just had to ruin the illusion, didn't you? I hope that everyone knows this, but you can't blame a man for wanting to believe it's true. @bacteria Funny fact: a dog has less bacteria on its tongue than a human and if you believe "Mythbusters", a toilet is cleaner than a kitchen floor. So you might reconsider the "eating food off your parents' kitchen floor". Go for the toilet instead... and grab a video camera while you're at it. Edited by - Drom on 3/30/2010 6:15:59 PM
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HornyBastard Deactivated User
41 Posts 3/10
Posted - Mar 31 2010 : 2:47AM
Huh???????????????? IMHO, about the only correct thing you've said is that "Nobody watches because they think it's art"
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you gotta be kidding me. are you a man or a woman?
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HornyBastard Deactivated User
41 Posts 3/10
Posted - Mar 31 2010 : 2:51AM
lol. i totally disagree. if it's not degrading, it's not worth watching.
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HornyBastard Deactivated User
41 Posts 3/10
Posted - Mar 31 2010 : 3:00AM
why do i get the feeling that you're just another male bashing angry woman? people like you kill me. it's as if you can't conceive of the idea that a woman just may be responsible for her own actions. this constant blame shifting by angry feminists is ridiculous and is really getting old.
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HornyBastard Deactivated User
41 Posts 3/10
Posted - Mar 31 2010 : 3:55AM
just had to let you know that i'm a major fan of your work. i'm a black man that loves a white, chocolate lover with a big ass and you're clearly that. lol. what you've done for the interracial porn community is, frankly, unmatched by anyone and i will be posting a thread in your honor, in which i will go into further detail, very shortly. Edited by - HornyBastard on 3/31/2010 11:31:50 PM
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Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - Mar 31 2010 : 10:25AM
Your lack of a clue in general astounds me.
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HornyBastard Deactivated User
41 Posts 3/10
Posted - Mar 31 2010 : 12:35PM
i assume you're talking to me (correct me if i'm wrong). "Your lack of a clue in general astounds me." said the pot to the kettle. LMFAO.
And that's why we love you Kelly, your attitude is so great, you really remove so many stereotype from the porn biz, I used to feel guilty about some of the things you mentioned when i watched porn, but now thanks to women like you, and Bobbi, Dana, Anette Schwarz etc. I realize that you guys really enjoy what you do and you have fun with it, and that makes it so much fun!
Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09
Posted - Mar 31 2010 : 5:22PM
If any of them do feel shame, or feel that what they do really has no value, they shouldn't. I know you aren't supposed to quote your own stuff, here, but this is a good place to say it again, so I will:I am not a father, but if I were, I like to think that if my daughter were a porn actress, and a good one, I'd be as pleased about it as I would if she were successful in any other profession.
Well... first off I'm not a feminist. Actually, I'm a man, albeit a man with no problem acknowledging a woman's perspective. However, your point regarding my supposed feminism and a performer's (whether it be male or female, an issue unacknowledged throughout this post) 'responsibility,' or better put -- choice -- to involve themselves in these actions has NOTHING to do with the intent of my message. Frankly, I could care less about that. It's not for me to judge, rather to enjoy. My intent was to reply to the original poster's query: "do pornstars ever feel shame for what they do?" I was simply attempting to point out that viewer and performer are inexorably linked. One begets the other. The original poster's verbage seemed to indicate that 'performers' SHOULD feel guilty for their sexual acts. I do not feel this is the case. I was making a point to the contrary by showing the viewer is equally complicit, and therefore should not pass any judgement.
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Ordell Deactivated User
1042 Posts 6/05
Posted - Apr 1 2010 : 12:00PM
Oh no, the rampant drinking, drug abuse and suicides over the decades have no causality to shame AT ALL!
Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09
Posted - Apr 1 2010 : 2:17PM
No, they don't. There is drug abuse, drinking and suicides in every profession. In fact, the suicide rate among porn stars is not all that high. I don't myself care for the OP's question, because it is loaded with an assumption that porn work IS something to be ashamed of: something I have already said I disagree with. This isn't to say there AREN'T probably actors that are ashamed of what they do, but it seems logical that these individuals would rather quickly find another living. As for shameful professions, I can think of quite a list of them that at least on occasion SHOULD be a lot more cause for shame than working to make the horny people of the world feel better. For example, there are the theologians, priests and pastors whose relentless efforts over the years have convinced society that sex is dirty and enjoying sex a source of shame.
And yet those dudes screw that up all the time, I totally agree, there are more suicides and more drug abuse in other profession than porn, it does happen, but certainly no more than anywhere else, especially in the 21st century
Naughty Teacher Needs Pussy - review by Danielmayu33216
Posted - Mar 3 2007 : 11:34PM
