^There is also a very large audience for extreme hardcore porn, and people who will pay for it. So what's the difference? Plus, people always manage to rationalize these things. So it's perfectly OK to see some guy literally getting his head beaten in on the ground until his blood stains the floor of the ring and his face is bruised is almost beyond recognition, but it's an unspeakable crime against humanity to see a woman play the role of a rape victim in a porn film? I don't get this. It appears to only be a reflection of our society's age-old conceptions of gender roles. It's OK to see a man get beaten to a bloody pulp, and we even make jokes about men who get raped, because men are supposed be able to defend themselves against such attacks. But if a woman agrees to do a porn scene where she plays any role other than the instigator of sex, then she must be really getting raped or coerced because, of course, she's a woman. It's all ridiculous. As far s "sick porn" goes, there is a website called 50PlusMilfs.com. Now, that's sick. Talk about something that should be illegal. If people can get off to watching this shit, then there's no reason I shouldn't be able to get off on girls get roughly dominated. Whatever rocks your boat.
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Dec 7 2009 : 7:51PM
Actually there is not an large audience for extreme hardcore porn, it is a niche item. The difference is great between porn and any other entertainment platform. There is no real stigma attached to MMA or Big Time Wrestling, or boxing. Your kids could watch it if they wanted to, which leaves a giant market share not available to us. Yes it is ok for a guy to get his head beaten into the ground, bloody and battered, because he is consenting to the fight and trains for that, I don't know any porn stars that train for rape scenes. I think you will find that you are in the minority when it comes to people who want to see simulated rape. There is something not very PC about it. Women don't always activate the sex in our movies, most times it's the guy and that has nothing to do with rape or simulated rape. Roughly dominated and rape are two very different things, if you don't know the difference, perhaps you have a problem. When a woman says no, it's no. When a woman says no and to you it means yes, and you force her to have sex with you, you will end up in jail for rape. If a woman says yes, and you ask are you into rough sex, and she says yes, green light. Try having rough sex with a woman that doesn't like rough sex, knock knock, who's there? SVU.
here's the thing: First of all, what he said is true. While the audience for MMA is growing, it is still a "niche" just like hardcore porn or whatever we're calling things like "rape". To be fair to the argument/comparison, one would have to consider this: "of sportsfans in general, what percentage like/watch MMA?" Then it would be a fair comparison. So Holly, I think you are wrong here, I bet the percentages are pretty close. There are plenty of people that like rape, or scat, or snuff, or heavy slapping, or S&M, etc. And there are plenty of people that like parts of MMA, but dislike other parts. But you add up all these fans (MMA or "Hardcore porn") and it's a sizable chunk in both respective markets. I would also point out that BOTH of these things are legal. It's now legal to do MMA in most states (by "do MMA" I mean put on pride or ufc events where guys can get hurt) and a few states still allow "no holds barred" style of fighting like the original UFC (I think it only had THREE rules lol, arms were broken, faces shattered, it was great stuff!). And the fact that it is legal kind of disqualifies your whole argument. Just because I am fascinated with serial killers and enjoy watching movies about them doesn't mean I think it's okay to kill. And likewise, if I like to watch fake rape movies it doesn't mean I think rape is okay. People fantasize about lots of things they'd never do, perhaps they like one part of it but not another part... so they can never actually do it, etc. Either way, your "no means no" speech is a bit over the top as nobody said rape is okay, nobody said roofies are cool, so I think you're stretching it out a bit. People look at accident scenes all the time... does it mean they have bloodlust? I don't know, but it ain't illegal regardless of why they do it. And a fake/simulated rape movie is STILL two (or more) consenting adults, so that point too was invalid. What is portrayed is irrelevant if it is not reality. Because, by that logic, any actor that killed someone in a movie (fake) should be convicted of a crime (real)... so let's keep real and fake clearly separate as they are indeed separate. Besides... aren't we getting off topic here? It's not "are rape movies okay?" (just so you know holly, they ARE!!! bwa ha ha) the issue is "are they good for the industry"... yes? They are good for the Constitution and it is what protects your industry so I'd say "maybe".
If someone gets intensely sexually excited looking at accident scenes, then... Sexual urges are more of a motivator of physical action than any of the other situations compared. That's a big difference. The people involved in the other situations I have to assume are more thoroughly prepared for what they will be going through. I would say think Jodie Foster in Taxi Driver. Or for one on a tragic side, think Heath Ledger in The Dark Knight. What goes on in the porn industry with the girls behind the scenes? I certainly don't know. I hope they're prepared and always are treated with respect. I doubt it, though. Every now and then I read a story from a girl talking about her beginnings in porn and the shitty situations she was thrown into. While I'm sure the major dvd producers treat the girls well, they are but a percentage of the industry on the whole. I cannot only look at the girls at the top, ignoring those at the bottom who didn't make it to success.There are many things holding back the acceptance of, and the sales of, pornography beyond the technical constitutionality of extreme porn. Just because it's legal does not mean it's best. I really like this topic's discussion because I'm the in-between porn connoisseur, I stick to soft girl-only porn, and my credit card gets rung up with enough charges each month I do pay for what I watch, but I refuse to watch most boy/girl porn (certainly all of the rough, dominate variety) mainly out of my own morales and principles And there really is not anything anyone here can say that would change my views I don't force my views on others, I only hold back with my own dollars until I find something that I can respect on a level greater than something to quick jerk off to. Edited by - just_me on 12/7/2009 10:06:42 PM
Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09
Posted - Dec 8 2009 : 1:52PM
Realtip, you ageist! What's wrong with 50 year old MILFs? a.) they're a damned siight more experienced/skillful, b.) not nearly as silly and impressed with themselves, and c.) they appreciate you more. Don't be so picky, bud! You're going to be 50 plus yourself someday, sooner than you think, and you're just going to get 'plus-er' after that. On top of which, if you're like most guys, you aren't the prize you think you are, even now.
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Dec 8 2009 : 5:18PM
Boy ain't that the truth. I used to be 24, and I thought 35 was old for a woman, now that I'm 54 some of these 45 year olds look great. Even some of the 50 year olds look great. My cut off is now 60 year olds, but i have to say I would still fuck Diane Sawyer.
I understand what you are saying random. YOu make a great point. UFC gets away of knocking the shit out of someone in a submission hold for the sake of competition. Yet many of the people who enjoy watching UFC, are baffled that someone would take their clothes off in front of film and engages in sexual ceremonies for pleasure. Before someone labels me a hedonist, I am not inferring that every thing that feels good should be acted upon but UFC is the most graphic form of violent theater for the sake of competition, porn is the most explicit form of sexuality for the sake of voyuerism. Yet the former is far more likely to be viewed in a noble manner than the latter.
You make a good point but I still am very uneasy thinking about rape in porn. What is even more bizzare is that being a UFC fighter who has a job of knocking somoene unconcious in a submission hold is viewed as more noble than anyone who takes their clothes off for a living.
Playing the role of a rape victim, lets say in Cry Wolf, is not the same as someone acting out rape for sexual pleasure (no characterization, no set-up), which in turn is not the same as a performer actually being raped, and the product goes on sale anyway, and people watch it because it turns them on. It's a little too convenient for people to continuously conflate these very different scenarios as a way of simply saying "anything goes!" This conflation is similar to the assertion that everything in porn is fake/a fantasy ("It's just porn!") for the purpose of arguing your position. It's too easy to ignore subtleties and complexities, and avoid asking questions, in order to make your viewing pleasure less problematic/disrupted.
Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09
Posted - Dec 9 2009 : 9:05AM
So are Stradavari violins and 1927 Bugatis. Granted most 50+ ers let themselves go, but then so do a great many 25 year olds. I'm just saying that if you dismiss older women out of hand, you're only cheating yourself.
Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09
Posted - Dec 9 2009 : 9:42AM
The disturbing thing about rape/abusive/misogynist porn is not the porn, but some of the watchers. There's a world of difference between someone for whom such porn is an occasional fantasy and the individual who needs to degrade and hurt women and finds such behavior not only acceptable but morally justified and proof of his own superiority. The former could be any of us, and our enjoyment of it is no more a sign of emotional disturbance than fantasizing during sex about being with another woman makes us adulterers, or about having sex in public is grounds for arrest. The latter is a disturbed and dangerous individual, for whom misogynist porn is likely a catalyst for the actual commission of violent, hateful acts that have nothing to do with sex and everything to do with madness, but who would commit those acts with or without porn. That the industry puts out rape fantasy stuff is only business. They aren't endorsing misogyny as okay; they are endorsing making money as okay. The danger for them is that the public is so horrified by rape and violence to women that they may not make the distinction betweeen fantasy and actual behavior. Add to this the contempt many have for other people's intelligence, which fosters the absurd notions of many that watching rape porn makes people rapists or that homosexuals can make people gay, and you have all the ingredients for turning porn makers into convicts.
^ Right - I think this is pretty much what I was getting at. I would say it's a bit more complex, in terms of cause/effect, and certainly porn is not the "cause" of deviant behaviors. We're basically on the same page.
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Dec 9 2009 : 2:04PM
here's the thing: First of all, what he said is true. While the audience for MMA is growing, it is still a "niche" just like hardcore porn or whatever we're calling things like "rape". To be fair to the argument/comparison, one would have to consider this: "of sportsfans in general, what percentage like/watch MMA?" Then it would be a fair comparison. So Holly, I think you are wrong here, I bet the percentages are pretty close. There are plenty of people that like rape, or scat, or snuff, or heavy slapping, or S&M, etc. And there are plenty of people that like parts of MMA, but dislike other parts. But you add up all these fans (MMA or "Hardcore porn") and it's a sizable chunk in both respective markets. I would also point out that BOTH of these things are legal. It's now legal to do MMA in most states (by "do MMA" I mean put on pride or ufc events where guys can get hurt) and a few states still allow "no holds barred" style of fighting like the original UFC (I think it only had THREE rules lol, arms were broken, faces shattered, it was great stuff!). And the fact that it is legal kind of disqualifies your whole argument. Just because I am fascinated with serial killers and enjoy watching movies about them doesn't mean I think it's okay to kill. And likewise, if I like to watch fake rape movies it doesn't mean I think rape is okay. People fantasize about lots of things they'd never do, perhaps they like one part of it but not another part... so they can never actually do it, etc. Either way, your "no means no" speech is a bit over the top as nobody said rape is okay, nobody said roofies are cool, so I think you're stretching it out a bit. People look at accident scenes all the time... does it mean they have bloodlust? I don't know, but it ain't illegal regardless of why they do it. And a fake/simulated rape movie is STILL two (or more) consenting adults, so that point too was invalid. What is portrayed is irrelevant if it is not reality. Because, by that logic, any actor that killed someone in a movie (fake) should be convicted of a crime (real)... so let's keep real and fake clearly separate as they are indeed separate. Besides... aren't we getting off topic here? It's not "are rape movies okay?" (just so you know holly, they ARE!!! bwa ha ha) the issue is "are they good for the industry"... yes? They are good for the Constitution and it is what protects your industry so I'd say "maybe". [/quote] First of all let's look at the numbers. 5.2 Million Viewers for Kimbo Slice vs. Houston Alexander
The ratings are in from Saturday night's Ultimate Fighter Finale, and Spike TV is touting them as a major success, with 5.2 million viewers for the night's biggest draw, Kimbo Slice vs. Houston Alexander. That's a great number, the most viewers that any live UFC fight has had all year. On the other hand, it's almost a million fewer than the 6.1 million who watched Kimbo fight Roy Nelson in the third episode of this season's Ultimate Fighter. So I'd stop short of calling the Ultimate Fighter Finale a huge ratings success. The three-hour Ultimate Fighter Finale, which included five live fights, had an average of 3.7 million viewers and was the third most-watched UFC fight card in Spike TV history. That is not a niche number. Those are major numbers. For an extreme sex dvd, they sell around 1000 units, and I'm being generous. Even if it's on the internet, let's say 60k hit it, that is a very small number. I love watching history channel and crime network and gangland, and no it doesn't mean I will commit murder or join a gang. But if you watch rape videos and that is the only thing that gets you off, do you think maybe a seed will be planted? Are rape scenes good for the industry, I doubt it. Is brutalizing women good for the industry, I think not.
If I want to make you buy a "safe" car, I might simply find a way to make you feel vulnerable in the car you have now. I don't have to force you to buy a safe car. I can let you make your own decisions and still make sure you do just what I want you to do. All I have to do is scare you and if you're not paying attention, you don't see that I have an agenda. You might not even know I'm the one who's trying to scare you. It was on the news. Someone can use very similar psychology any time they wish to elicit a specific response or behavior. The thing about human beings is that we're utterly predictable unless we're smart enough to realize that being predictable makes us easy targets for those who know how to manipulate us. Not everyone who watches "sick porn" will do something bad but most people who do bad shit of a sexual nature will probably have some form of "sick porn". You will never hear about how many people actually watch porn that could be labeled this way and never do anything harmful to another person but you will hear about it every time a serial killer or a rapist is found with some kind of questionable porn. The reason for this is simple. You never hear about all of the people who safely use any given product. You never hear about most things that don't bleed. You only hear about it when bad shit happens. It can be 3 people out of a million and it's a catastrophe because the media is nothing if not good at blowing the smallest things out of proportion either to serve a darker agenda or simply for ratings. And you can be sure that someone (some little interest group or something) will seize upon every opportunity to advance their cause. I'm fairly well convinced that most people could watch "violent" porn for the rest of their lives and never hurt anyone. Because whether they actually get off on it or not, most people have pretty good impulse control and they know the difference between fantasy and reality and right and wrong when it comes right down to it. Most people can be trusted. The one guy who kills a bunch of women and also happens to have a hard drive full of rough sex porn will be the one who's singled out as the definitive example of the type of person who watches this kind of stuff. They'll make a movie about him and the porn will be the thing that "him off". This has already happened in the UK, I think (I don't know if they made a movie about him but they did blame the porn and passed a law because of it). This is why so-called sick porn is a bad idea. Not because everyone who watches it is gonna do something horrific. 99% of them probably won't. But the first time someone does and it gets widely reported in the media (Or heaven forbid there are several cases of it), it'll bring fire and brimstone down on the whole industry. If you take 20 minutes of random video and show it to 10,000,000 people, the chances that one of them will be influenced or inspired by it in some way are very high. We'd like to think this doesn't happen but face it. It does. If you take a porn scene that appears to depict non consensual sex and show it to untold numbers of people, you have the same odds. It only takes one. One crying mother on the news can take every right you think you have and throw it in the trash. I understand the whole free speech thing and I sympathize but we're facing the reality of a climate that is hostile to sexual expression in general and people will shut you down if your speech is unpopular enough and there's nothing you can do about it. In this light, I think self-censorship is far preferable to the alternative. If you censor yourself voluntarily, you always have that card to play when people accuse the porn industry of being a depraved monster with no morals or ethics at all. Remember. This is what they always said would happen.
I don't think this is the place to ridicule or judge people who like this stuff. There is nothing to be gained by insulting people. It only pisses them off and makes them close their minds and more determined to prove their point. Edited by - randomprecision on 12/9/2009 4:24:18 PM
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Dec 9 2009 : 5:29PM
^ You make a lot of sense. That is why the industry on a whole is cautious about what it puts out. Europe has very little laws concerning censorship, they will put out just about anything, and you know what, nobody really gives a shit. I honestly think anyone should be able to watch what they want, I just don't have to be the guy making it. With the exception of kiddie porn of course. If you want to see girls being degraded, by all means buy that stuff. Is it good for the industry, IMO and only IMO, I think not. But I am not going to stand in the way of someone making something that is legal, if it crosses over to where an indictment is handed out for it, you will soon find out if it is illegal in your community or not. The viewer is rarely arrested, the company making it is. It is no fun being a test case. Sam Kinison was probably my favorite comedian of all time, he would say stuff that would piss people off and make you think. he would say shit that people think, but never say. He was banned from performing in San Francisco by all the comedy club owners, this was back in 85 or 86, I helped him produce his own show there and recorded his first album. The show was sold out, we added a second show, sold out. My point is that people loved to be shocked by him, no matter how hard they tried to prevent him from working, people came in droves. People love a train wreck.
Sorry Krendall.... The bible is the most pornographic book in history and it includes more violence than Wes Craven's whole career... So to come in here with a gross violent book like the bible is beyond hypocrisy, you could not look more ridiculous. And for the record, there is no greater insult to women than the Book of Timothy.... go old Paul was a woman hater for sure. See, the problem with christians is they go where they're not wanted, and arrogantly pimp some man-god nobody cares about. Save it. Besides, what's that Matt Groening Line??? "GO SELL CRAZY SOMEPLACE ELSE! WE'RE ALL STOCKED UP HERE!"
First of all let's look at the numbers. 5.2 Million Viewers for Kimbo Slice vs. Houston Alexander
The ratings are in from Saturday night's Ultimate Fighter Finale, and Spike TV is touting them as a major success, with 5.2 million viewers for the night's biggest draw, Kimbo Slice vs. Houston Alexander. That's a great number, the most viewers that any live UFC fight has had all year. On the other hand, it's almost a million fewer than the 6.1 million who watched Kimbo fight Roy Nelson in the third episode of this season's Ultimate Fighter. So I'd stop short of calling the Ultimate Fighter Finale a huge ratings success. The three-hour Ultimate Fighter Finale, which included five live fights, had an average of 3.7 million viewers and was the third most-watched UFC fight card in Spike TV history. That is not a niche number. Those are major numbers. For an extreme sex dvd, they sell around 1000 units, and I'm being generous. Even if it's on the internet, let's say 60k hit it, that is a very small number. I love watching history channel and crime network and gangland, and no it doesn't mean I will commit murder or join a gang. But if you watch rape videos and that is the only thing that gets you off, do you think maybe a seed will be planted? Are rape scenes good for the industry, I doubt it. Is brutalizing women good for the industry, I think not.
Click to expand
Holly... as usual you don't read too well on my points. You cannot compare numbers to numbers, that's not relevant or fair. But you CAN compare RATIOS to RATIOS. so like this: #of porn movies holly thinks are sick sold in time period X divided by, number of TOTAL PORN MOVIES sold in same period of time "X" This gives us a fraction or percentage. Now we have our "sick porn index" Next we take "Number of viewers of UFC in time period X" divided by "Number of viewers of ALL sports in same time period X" This gives us our UFC index Now compare those 2 ratios and if they are very similar, what I said is true. If they are not, then what you say is true. This is a per capita issue so you must use a relevant method to compare. Your Numbers don't prove a thing relevant to the point... but I do get the impression you have time to look this stuff up, so try again using the CORRECT method or something very similar (relevant to percentages.... THUS ADDRESSING THE "NICHE" ISSUE" (which is the whole point). All you proved was "More people watch UFC than extreme porn".... and that's not the debate my friend. We are still friends aren't we Holly? Get me some good numbers and I'll retract my blathering. Edited by - seedfeeder on 12/10/2009 3:06:53 AM
Just to play devil's advocate.... Many of you implicitly or explicitly indicate that "watching rape could cause someone to be more inclined to rape".... perhaps, but I'd like to see a statistically viable study on that. One example of a piece of contrary evidence: The worst serial killer in history was that guy in Russia, I think he murdered 51 people. My point is.... that was among the most repressed societies in history. No violence on TV, not even on the nightly news lol. So where did he get his ideas? What you imply is that we are monkeys. "monkey see, monkey do." While I am a big fan of Darwin and think we all came from amoebas and monkeys as well as rocks, spiders, porn stars, etc... are all our "cousins", I don't agree with your simplification of this complex issue. There is an influence, but it takes a criminal mind to cross the line no matter how much influence there is through the eyes. If someone wants to send me a 100 rape videos... I'll be happy to watch them (I've never seen one before but frankly the whole discussion makes them sound at least mildly interesting) and let you know how I feel at the end.
Hey, I got an even better point.... So I mostly watch blowjob videos, I'm certain I own over 1,000 of them. I'm sure I watch at least 20 hours of cocksucking per month.... So with 15 years of watching dicks get sucked, how come I never had the urge to go out and suck a dick? K, maybe that argument is a tad unfair. But here's a more valid one: How come I have never, ever, had the urge to really skull fuck a girl or try to make her throw up. I DO see that constantly from the correct point of view and I do have a cock big enough to actually DO it (by the previous arguments I read, I should want to imitate the man). How come I don't get the sudden urge to spit in her face? Or stick my cock in her cheek and slap her face (never understood that and always wondered what moron invented it).... Clearly this idea that it is actually dangerous to "let us" see certain things for fear we may repeat it is a bit ignorant. I don't think it's a simple issue. Talk to a Forensic Psychologist and ask them why people kill or rape or abuse. They certainly won't agree with a simple claim like "because they saw it on TV..."
Ooookay... I was merely trying to say that not all of us Christians are anti-porn, is all. I'm not trying to "pimp" my religion at all nor am I here to preach to anyone. I'm also well aware of the violence in the Bible as well as Paul's anti-woman issues.
lmao basic point is that you get off on a person male or female being violated AND (note AND) it being portrayed in a positive light you need to really think about why this turns you on SEXUALLY. Edited by - nerdgod on 12/10/2009 12:31:37 PM
Hey hey hey! No fair using my fetishes against me. Like I said, I'm sure there is influence hollywood... but not enough to claim that rape is caused by movies about rape.
Look. My whole point was this. All it will take is for them to find a serial killer or a mass rapist or something who has a bunch of violent porn. Like I said, the truth doesn't matter. If they mention it on the news that the guy had a bunch of violent porn and imply that the porn played a role in it, that will cinch it in the minds of people who are already inclined to believe such porn is harmful. Because those people are used to making snap judgments without truly thinking about it, It doesn't have to have one shred of truth to it. If you've been around long enough to see America blame Saddam Hussein and invade Iraq for 9/11 you should know how easy the vast majority of Americans are to manipulate. Now all you need to do from there is to understand that people don't believe that insanity comes from within. People always have to blame something or someone for everything. Except if they ever get enough people to make mental connections between the porn industry and actual violence, there will be more than warning stickers. It's a whole new ballgame when sex is involved. The truth does not matter. You will not hear about the Russian serial killer if this happens. You will hear over and over about the guy's porn collection. And more importantly, people who don't know about the Russian guy (Just about everyone) will only hear about this guy's porn. The only reason I know about the Russian guy is that I saw the HBO movie years ago (I'm guessing it was the same guy). Edited by - randomprecision on 12/10/2009 5:10:20 PM
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Fernandez Deactivated User
781 Posts 12/08
Posted - Dec 27 2009 : 7:45PM
JM has a new series called "Slave". It's hilarious, so maybe that is good.
I find this thread quite humorous and hypocritical. Most on this forum are complete hypocrites, everyone with a "moral" standing against some, but not all porn. Then they mention how they like a just a tinge of "sick", but nothing overboard. Then there's a big debate over where the line is drawn. There is no "moral" porn. Sorry. It's all fundamentally about the dehumanization of sex for entertainment value, the communicating of "sick" ideas, the objectification of women, and of course... money money money. Quite honestly, the way things are looking, the "sicker" the better. That's that. Edited by - echoplex on 1/21/2010 10:38:03 PM
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Mudou Deactivated User
5 Posts 3/09
Posted - Jan 22 2010 : 12:35AM
Yes, I realized years ago that you feel that way when you did a complete 180. Christians have a saying that "the road to hell is paved with good intentions." They got that much right. Porn's decline and descent into decadence parallels society's. People who narrowly focus on the symptoms rather than the causes are fools.
some sites clearly state they torture women and provide instructions. some soldiers copied their torture techniques from the tv show 24. both are causes for concern, but i would be more worried about the torture that kids who can't read yet can see just by not turning off the tv.
Wow. That's not what I get from porn, nor why I watch it. I suggest you broaden your viewing habits if it sickens you so much, because there is plenty of porn out there that does not aspire to your rigid porn criteria. Or perhaps you like these elements, in which case it would make sense that that is all you watch.
it's a bad day for the biz when someone gets anally pounded so hard she loses a lot of blood. i've read of some performers needing surgery afterwards. if it hasn't already happened, what probably will happen is someone loses so much blood she dies. then the producers face the possibility of a murder charge. that could lead to a much stronger antiporn crusade.
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realtip Deactivated User
2301 Posts 6/04
Posted - Jan 23 2010 : 2:36PM
^You ought to stop believing everything you read somewhere.
You "get" from porn, what you want to get from it. I used to think I just "got" a thrill while getting off... well, that much is still true I suppose. But I just don't subscribe to the happy-go-lucky hypocritical hippie perspective anymore. No matter how prettied and flowered up, or dark and gritty you make it, there is no doubt in my mind.I don't know, how wrong would I be on a message board both by and for the industry?
Why bother joining when against the industry? Don't get me wrong I don't mind criticism when backed up with a good argument but I don't care much for arrogance. Your attitude comes in stating that this is a black and white situation when there is plenty of grey.
This is a great thread. Lots of excellent debate, and, for the most part, it's been pretty civil. I have to admit I've watched a few fantasy rape scenes before, simply out of a sense of curiosity. I didn't get much, if anything, out of them. I've also seen my fair share of BDSM scenes... and I don't get much out of those either. Both of these genre's center around the same basic concept... domination and power (and usually pain), over another individual. While BDSM is usually not fantasizing about non-consensual sex acts... it still places one of the participants in a dramatically reduced position of power, in very much the same way that rape (fantasy or otherwise), does. It is interesting to note that BDSM is sometimes restricted by law, in much the same way other niche 'acts' may be. Personally, I don't see much of a difference between the two, BDSM and fantasy rape. I personally don't like to see women in pain or tied up, so these two genres really do nothing for me... Despite my lack of interest, I would disagree emphatically that censuring and ostracizing companies that produce these films is good for the porn industry's longevity or even short-term public sector relations. As others have already stated, it quickly becomes a chain of rapidly increasing, consecutive witch hunts when attempting to define, categorize, and objectify the morality of these acts and niche genres. A puritan anti-porn community will always exist, regardless of how restricted, legislated, or tame the content may become. These groups will always target the low hanging fruit in their justification and arguments, regardless of whatever that happens to be at the time. If BDSM/Fantasy Rape was already illegal everywhere in the world, they would be targeting something else within the industry just as strongly.. Perhaps double-penetration or large orgies and gang-bangs.. who knows. If these were also illegal, they would be targeting sodomy -- anal, oral, homosexual, and anything non-procreative. Even if all that was legal in porn were scenes depicting the missionary position, between only one man and one woman (implied to be married, of course), under the cover of bed sheets... you would still have a group of very vocal puritans attacking and attempting to restrict even this. You will never appease these critics, so it's absolutely imperative that we never start. Once you start to compromise our freedom of expression (even with good intentions), in an attempt to present the industry in a slightly better light, you will end up accepting concessions every few years (through legislation 'creep' and expansion, the industry may not even have to be a willing participant) until the industry is dead. These vocal anti-porn groups simply aren't after the industry to "clean up their act" -- they're after the industry to see it annihilated entirely. As for the psychological implications of fantasy rape, and to a lesser extent BSDM, there can be much said and debated on the subject. You will never come to a scientific consensus on it. From a practical and biological viewpoint, it seems these are just part of the vast array of potential fetishes and odd things we may become fixated on throughout our development. Just like homosexuality, water sports, anal, cross-dressing, transgendered, scat, fisting, and anything else you can imagine (even boxing and MMA as pointed out earlier): You, I, or someone half way across the world may find it disgusting, repulsive, and even immoral... but a segment of the population finds it to be quite acceptable. I think the important thing to remember is that it's fantasy and role-play enacted between consenting adults. The human capacity for dark and degrading acts has no bounds. As long as the films in question are being presented in a fantasy form by consensual adults, the fantasy remains fantasy, and people are not seriously injured or caused significant bodily harm (no more than MMA or Boxing might), then there simply should be no problem or complaint from the industry leaders. This goes for just about any fantasy you can have, and yes, that includes snuff porn and mainstream torture films like the SAW series, which I find quite disturbing and dysfunctional... but I respect their patrons right to produce and enjoy it as they see fit, as long as they don't mimic what they see on the screen to non-consensual humans and animals. This is not an issue as long as they understand the difference between fantasy and reality, which is probably the most basic and rudimentary definition of a rational and "sane" citizen. In closing, I'll add that the temptation to legislate morality is extremely strong in most civilized cultures, and for very clear-cut moral issues this is fantastic. We've abolished slavery, established the Mann act to prevent trafficking of women, created all sorts of child protection laws, and attempted to provide equal rights to every member of society by criminalizing segregation. What these legislative acts all have in common is that they're protecting those who may be preyed upon by the powerful. With few exceptions, this is generally the only morality legislation that is necessary, or even desired, for a fully functional, stable, and fair society.
with love, respect, and apologies for writing the above novel, -SB
I think that people are of different flavors and should do as they feel or watch what they feel, I personal cant get off on it but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be. One problem I see is people trying to imitate the stuff in reality. I want to do my own thing and get some porn out there or like a company that makes porn for the people, meaning the people control what the site does or who and what kind of stuff the company does. Cause some of the stuff out here is getting really repetitive.
It does give criminals (insane ) to do sick things they see on rentals in light of the fact that they are conditioned to believe its ok when they see it. Bottom line very violent movies do cause unstable people to do things badly and rape porn or when a woman is treated like shit on the screen forced to do things it causes people to think, hey, perhaps its ok. Not everybody, people that are mental unstable. I do not believe that rape , violence such be in porn and its that simple. In main stream movies those that are the villians hopefully are stopped by jail or die by hands of Law enforcement.
I'm both for and against the idustry. From a standpoint of someone who enjoys seeing this, that, and the other, indulging on twisted perversions and pleasure myself to them, I'm for the industry. From the standpoint of someone who has thoroughly researched, studied, debated this, what you say I've branded as "black and white", from both a sociological and economic perspective.... "morally", there is no chance in hell I could get behind the industry, or say I support what it does. That's the thing. Let's not be hypocritical here; if you take pleasure in it, if you support this industry, don't pretend to have any sort of moral standing. You don't, it's BS. Admit you're a degenerate who doesn't give a shit, and enjoy. I mean, that's the theme you see porn pushing more these days anyway, right? Why continue to deny it? There are no morals in porn, nor do I claim to adhere to morality, though there is still a part of my conscience that knows through what I've come to understand, that someone truly moral, or someone who truly cared for the betterment of mankind, wouldn't support this industry. I've teetered on this fence for quite some time now, it's just that I'm still not ready to care. I'm hooked, it feels good, but at the same time, I realize how completely fucked up it is on so many levels. I'm not going to pretend that it's not. Edited by - echoplex on 5/7/2010 1:38:22 PM
I think if it's between consensual adults, then it has a place in our industry. Not everyone just wants to eat vanilla ice cream all the time. Some people like their sex rough, others... soft and tender. There are a lot of things that I "don't get" when it comes to porn, but who am I to say that it shouldn't be created? - Swirlie CEO Porn Pervs - me and my buddy's new porn site
And there really is not anything anyone here can say that would change my views 
I don't force my views on others, I only hold back with my own dollars until I find something that I can respect on a level greater than something to quick jerk off to.
