Brokeback Mountain is a movie that contains scenes of male-male passion that are probably unparallelled for a release featuring big-name actors. Its appeal has extended far beyond gay audiences to include heterosexuals. My view is that its success will change the mainstream culture. It is also possible that it will change the straight porn culture, a culture which is reliably conservative and which always bans displays of male-male passion.
The straight porn culture is already changed - if I want to see gay porn in total privacy I can do it by pushing a button. But I'm guessing that the average straight guy does this in underwhelming numbers. I suppose Sineplex could start including M/M warmth in their vids, but their demise would soon follow. Anybody here seen Brokeback? Hello? Outside of liberal Hollywood elitist circles, a flick that will be totally forgotten in about 30 days.
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smith Arthur Again
29 Posts 8/05
Posted - Jan 28 2006 : 8:23PM
It's food for thought, nevertheless. I don't think there's ever been a time where male-male passion has been so openly discussed and featured in the mainstream. The other day, Oprah had the Brokeback actors on it, and showed clips from the movie, including the intimate scenes between the male actors.
Whereas in the past the porn industry has "led the way" in terms of loosening sexual inhibitions, it may now be the other way around. In other words, it's the mainstream that is leading.
I saw the film and thought it was pretty good. The positive aspect of bringing this subject matter to the mainstream is...it shows the conservatives that gay relationships are about about love just like hetero ones.I think the term is "gay curious". The average straight guy probably has no interest in watching gay porn. Just as the average gay guy has no interest in watching straight porn.
But for the gay, about 50% of the people involved in a straight porn are interesting to him. A straight guy finds nothing in gay porn that really interests him.
A lot more straight men (and women) buy our gay title than gay men buy our straight title; but I'll leave it to you to figure out what that means. I'm too busy counting my money!
The "gay sex" in Brokeback Mountain serves to further the story. It is not titillating in any way.
The mainstream industry has zero interest in gay sex per se. It does, however, have an interest in treating gay people as real human beings.
You didn't see a single swish or gay stereotype in Brokeback Mountain. Rather, we saw the reality and complexity of gay and bisexual relations between real people instead of some flaming stereotype, ahem, straight from central casting.
Either it's the good advertisement for M/M DVD's on your M/F DVD's (containing trailers) like you described or the straight man isn't that what he once was.
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smith Arthur Again
29 Posts 8/05
Posted - Jan 28 2006 : 8:51PM
The huge increase in male-male passion in mainstream movies, TV etc is an indication of male-male passion being incorporated into the heterosexual mainstream. It is being presented in an inclusive way in shows like Desperate Housewives, for instance. You see the heterosexual passion and you see the male-male passion, all in one show.
I personally don't watch shows that include homosexual men having relations. I won't watch movies that include it either. No interest in porn with male-male sex in it.
The whole reason Brokeback was made is because society is more accepting of homosexuals than in previous years. I guess being able to act as a homosexual in a movie as a straight actor is considered some great feat. I know plenty of people who accept homosexuality as long as they don't have to watch it or have it too closely affect their own lives.
I don't want to make anyone "uncomfortable" but what about all the anal sex (and blowjobs) in straight porn. I know quite a few women (some in the porn biz) who swear that anal sex in straight porn is about straight men acting out gay desires. If there's some truth in this theory, then the straight porn industry has already been "playing out" gay themes--long before Brokeback.
I'm trying to figure out how you know more straight men and women buy the gay title than gay men buy the straight one. Is that a question you ask in the check out process?
More like junk food for thought. I think people went to see "Brokeback Mountain" for the story. Certainly that is how the spokes people tried to push it, from what I have seen. There are more gay characters on TV, but then we are more open about acknowledging that there are gays in society. Doesn't mean straight people want to watch gay sex. Besides, there is always the bisexual and gay porn industry to cater to those who do. Why wouldn't people go there?
Name five movies that have changed mainstream culture in ways that it was not already moving to. Not that I even acknowledge that mainstream culture is at all moving towards finding gay sex titillating in the way they find straight or lesbian sex titillating. Straight porn doesn't ban scenes of gay sex, btw. Its just that the scene would pretty much make the movie not-straight.
I think a lot of women find m/m sex tittilating. (That's your primary audience for Desperate Housewives).
I think that men are less accepting of it, due to either homophobia, or simply not being interested.
As Smitty has already stated, if any guy wants to watch gay or bi porn and has issues about openly buying it or talking abou it, with the interweb, they can browse, select, burchase, and then throw the DVD on in the privacy of their own home, without ever having to speak to or interact with another human. That freedom has more power to change the culture from within than any single film.
Now I'm going to go watch Mythbusters. Are Jamie and Adam gay? Whogivesafuck?
You're not making me uncomfortable, but I'm not following your logic, either. Why not say anal sex in porn is about straight guys acting out their desires to fuck sheep? Sheep have assholes, too, ya know.
Seems to me that sexual orientation is more about who's orifice tab B is inserted into than which orifice.
But i am sure the mainstream will produce more male homosexuality because they have discovered with shows like Queer As Folk and others, that it appeals to many straight women. If the big target exists, they will do
It's bad enough that I have to deal with spitting, choking, endless multiple-partner scenes and wade through the anal wasteland to find stuff that interests me (remember one-on-one fucking).
Honestly, is it too much to ask people to buy/rent/watch what they're looking for without trying to incorporate distinct genres into mainstream straight porn?
That fucker told me after Donkey Punch hit 1500 units shipped he was going to buy me some real lights so my next effort wouldn't look so amateurish. I'm still waiting...
I find it so funny that some say they don't want gay sex in their heterosexual movies...it's been there for years! Women on women isn't STRAIGHT sex (just more accepted by straight men that watch porn).
Each year the number of g/g scenes in straight porn decreases. You have some light mostly fake g/g interaction in gonzo but rarely a whole scenes of two or three girls alone. Lesbian chic of 90s is dead and has been replaced by gang bangs, DP and BM-WF interracial fetish. That´s what sells more today. Because of that a new small g/g market aside of straight porn has arised, but i think most male porn viewers are not interested anymore.
Because of that a new small g/g market aside of straight porn has arised, but i think most male porn viewers are not interested anymore. [/quote]
If that were the case then the small or "not complete" g/g scenes would totally disappear from the mainstream. The bias has been shown in this very thread that g/g scenes are deemed "ok" by most of the people posting.
My point isn't whether they scenes are increasing and/or decreasing...that doesn't matter to me at all. The point is it is/has been ok for years. However, the m/m scene isn't.
I find ALL Les sex offensive -it ruins a GGB scene for me. I don't think all the girls doing GG are Les-it's a job for them. But I can't understand how they can do it without barfing. No amount of $$ would make me do it. I can watch 2 men together-no problem.
AztecGold11, you can´t speak in the name of all straight women. I don´t like gay porn but don´t find it disgusting. I just don´t watch it
Knoxguy and AztecGold11, less complaints and more action. If you want straight porn with m/m scenes, put your money and make some stuff. That is how things change. Low budget productions have their oportunity too
Sure for many it's work and they are not attracted to each other, but they won't feel like barfing.
I always thought that some woman are experimenting with other girls in their youth. First kiss training or are more touchy when it comes to greeting each other, have all those sleep overs etc.
I think that more woman are comfortable with another woman or are indifferent about it, than man would be with another man. But that's my opinion and there are no studies about it as far as I know.
Then gay sex is accepted by women but not straight men. If you are a man and can enjoy gay porn then........
So you find g/g offensive and women don´t accept it... What happens if a guy says that Brokeback Mountain is offensive for straight men because of gay scenes?
You don't really know why men like anal sex with women. I have anal sex with women, and I have no interest with anal sex with men. If it were a man, I'd lose my erection.
Women are shaped very different than men. They have a different smell, taste, feel, women are completely different than men.
Anal sex with women is about two things:
1. Crossing the Taboo line
2. Dominating the woman.
When a woman gives up her ass to you, it's a feeling of sexual power and perversity. Here she is having sex with you, and you have gotten her so horny and wanton that she is willing to allow you to fuck her ass.
The reaction women have when you fuck their ass and play with their pussy is incredible. If your a dumb ass and just stick it in and wail away, they probably aren't going to enjoy it.
When you play with a woman's ass, licking it, fingering it, getting her ready and turned on for anal sex. It is great to watch their reaction because they are feeling the same taboo perverse feeling you are having. They are letting a man do to them something they might not otherwise allow.
When you finally do enter their ass. It's nice and tight, you play with their clit and pussy pumping them at a varied pace until they get off. That is a great site to see a woman come while having anal sex.
Anal sex has nothing to do with gay fantasies unless the guy is gay. If you think a woman's ass looks like a mans, then you are with picking the wrong kind of woman. A woman's ass looks nothing like a man's ass. Get a clue.
Why in hell would I want to "make" porn? I try to put my $$ where my mouth is-and only buy straight porn with no GG. It's nearly impossible to do this-the GG creeps into scenes.
As for speaking for all straight women-of course I can't do so-but truely straight women would not enjoy Les porn.
A politically correct friend took me to see the movie, but I found it boring, trite, and predictable. Leaving aside the fact that you can barely hear what the actors are saying, it comes across as the kind of footage you would expect to see after 2 men spend a while in the mountains: happens all the time, just ask Sardinian shepherds.
You say "anal sex with women is about about two things": taboo and domination. So, anal sex between two men can't be about "taboo" or "domination"?
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realtip Deactivated User
2301 Posts 6/04
Posted - Jan 29 2006 : 11:49AM
I have not seen the movie "Brokeback Mountain," neither do I have any intention to. Although I haven't noticed the movie being publicized as much as this thread claims it is, I have heard of the movie, but only slightly. I haven't noticed the movie being advertised in any of the magazines or newspapers I read. I haven't even seen any previews for it on television or heard any on the radio. The only places I have heard it mentioned is on the late-night talk shows when they joke about the movie in the context of homosexuality. Thus, the only thing I know about the movie is that it has gay characters in it. And if it wasn't for Letterman, Leno, and Conan, I probably would never have heard of the movie at all.
As for lesbian sex vs. gay male sex, I suspect that we are all aware that society has looked upon lesbian sex with more approval than gay sex. Two women involved in sexual intimacy is regarded as "sexy" or "hot," while two men involved in any intimacy whatseover, whether sexual or not, is regarded as "gay" or "queer" and therefore unacceptable. If you go to any (straight) nightclub, it will not be uncommon to see two women on the dancefloor together, sometimes grinding and gyrating against one another, as men stand around onlooking. However, you will never see two men doing this outside of a gay setting, unless they intend on being gaybashed before the night is over. There is a simple reason for this, and that is because it appeals to the power of patriarchy, which dictates that women are always supposed to appease the fantasies of men.
I was talking to a female friend of mine once about this same topic, and she said something very interesting with which I have to agree. She said that the only reason lesbian sex is seen as "sexy" is because we live in a patriarchical, male-supremist society. She then said that if the situation were reversed, and society was historically dominated by women rather men, it would not be lesbian sex, but gay male sex, that would thought of as "hot" or "sexy." It actually made so much sense that I think she's right.
ditto. So to answer the original thread question, NO , Brokeback Mountain doesn't scare the straight porn industry. Porn generally only pays attention to mainstream movies that are huge blockbusters, so that porn can spoof it, not movies critically acclaimed by the coastal intelligentsia that no one who isn't either a student or alumni of a liberal college campus has seen.What about the ancient Greeks? Sure there are stories about the women of Lesbos Island (who actually were well known for their leather dildos, whether they used them on themselves, individually, or on each other), but M/M pederasty was fairly commonplace in many Greek cities. I guess M/M sex where both parties were about the same age and social class was rarer, but still, the Greeks were extremely patriarchal, but they had some tolerance for m/m sex, more than either the Roman pagans or the Christians that came after them, anyway. So the Patriarchy argument about why lesbianism is more accepted than male homosexuality is simplistic. It could have a lot to do with our society expecting even straight females to be more touchy-feely and emotionally open with each other than straight males. So it's not that big of a stretch for touchy-feely females to go to the next level with each other, while it's more shocking with males. Plus many males would love to have more than one girlfriend at a time, and if those girlfriends actually like each other instead of being jealous of each other, that's great. That is actually probably a fairly modern development, as Ottoman harems had many, many women living together, but they were closely supervised to prevent anyone but the Sultan from having sex with them, and 'anyone but the Sultan' included the harem girls themselves.
You guys have got to be kidding me about not hearing anything about this movie! It has been all over the news and even the small local newspaper in my city covered it.
Realtip, the movie is not ONLY a hit with the "intelligentsia" community as it was ranked number 5 in gross ticket sales per screen for last week. The movie has made far more money than anticipated and is being viewed by the average American.
Also, To address something mentioned above about me producing "straight porn" with m/m scenes...I am not a porn producer and have no desire to become one. I simply purchase/rent movies that I think I would enjoy.
To answer the question in the original post...I don't think it will make much of a difference in straight porn today. As mentioned above, it appears most porn is to be shown as the men overpowering/dominating the women.
Posted - Jan 28 2006 : 7:52PM
