Let me be more specific about the meaning of this post: 18 year-old women are sometimes not mature enough to say "No" when on set.

I know another adult entertainer who quit porn--she was very young, under the influence of drugs, and did her first scene with a company that pressured her to get in the bathtub--and then the male actor urinated in her mouth.

She said she felt like she couldn't say no to them--she felt pressured. She was too immature to stand up for herself. She had been abused when a child--something about the director made her feel like she had to do what he said.

Why should I name the director's name (He's not Max) He is disliked by a few. He's liked by alot of producers too. That's not my purpose. He posted about his dislike for this woman on another site, and said, in retaliation, he posted the golden shower clip, showing her spitting and almost vomitting. It's wrong to take advantage of women who because of their age can legally make a decision to degrade themselves, because it is wrong for men (and women) on the set to pressure them to degrade themselves. Just my .02

Max Hardcore did the same thing to Anastasia Blue in 1999--she was a friend of mine from a city in the midwest. Max was angry at Scotty Schwartz, who was repping Anastasia, so Max, to show Scotty didn't have her best interests in mind, posted the pissing clip, showing Anastasia gagging and saying "No more!", and Max told people that Scotty was right there in the bathroom urging her to recieve G/S.

Anastasia left the business right after that--porn never heard from her again, and she was a good performer.

Edited by - fundo on 4/24/2007 5:47:05 AM

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'She's out of porn'...so what? As you say, it's on DVD.

'Why should I name the director?'...so people can avoid his work and also working for him, maybe?

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I posted something pretty mean, but I'll shorten it to this:

I don't believe you.

Edited by - Lubenluv on 4/24/2007 9:37:16 AM

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"Fox ADT. We fabricate. You decide."

Zen

"...you must be ONE! ONE with your DICK!" - Jose Duval, The Pillowman

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If you donkey punch a woman, you're a coward and I hope she heels you in the balls...

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Dr. P

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And to be blunt, if you are such a "friend" to these alleged performers, I think your time is better served trying to convince all your porn-star "friend" with such obvious psychological distress that they should get their lives in order before attempting to engage in porn.

There's a guy out there who runs a website (mattsmodels.com) who posts here now and then....I think the best comment I ever saw from him or any other porn producer is that they encourage their models to fully understand the implications of porn...diseases, risks, etc. If you are dealing with a person who isn't in control of their OWN behavior, how can you reasonably expect them to attempt to control the behaviors of others?

Be a hero...quit telling us how your "friends" have been abused and take the accountability to talk them into taking ownership of their own lives.

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And furthermore, the top poster of this thread is attempting to fuse the issues of consent, age and "donkey punching" which are disparate issues. This poster has attempted to say that because a girl was only 18, she got donkey punched. That isn't a rational argument.

This poster has also tried to say that this is a good example of why 18 year olds aren't mature enough for porn. That also isn't a rational argument. Basically, it's a classic attack. Get people all emotional by presenting a grave injustice and then switch the focus to your pet issue (whatever it is).

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There's a world of difference between agreeing to do something others might find distasteful because you want to and doing it because you feel that you have to. People do things they dislike all the time because they feel that they have to. They aren't all weak willed, they simply don't feel they have any other viable options.

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Personal choice=personal strength to make decisions that impact you. Unless you are forced to do something (which nobody is claiming here), you've nobody to blame but yourself for actions/inactions.

We are entering an age in society where it's considered "good form" to lift up the victims as role models. I'd rather lift up the victors. To each their own.

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DrP0rn0" "They agreed to do it."
My answer to this broad statement is "How do you know?" (emphasis on the word know).

darkside762000: "'Why should I name the director?'...so people can avoid his work and also working for him, maybe?"
My answer: That's the job of agents, not mine.

darkside762000: 'She's out of porn'...so what? As you say, it's on DVD."
My answer: I respect her privacy more than your need to know. If I wanted to accuse somebody, I'd give the story to Mike South--not you: I don't know you.

LubeNLuv: "But how can you take advantage of someone when they agree to the terms of the deal, never say no/stop/too far and the scene in question isn't unique to the genre?"
My answer: Your point of view is valid. My philosophy is that the responsibility of an ethical human being to not take advantage of anyone--even if the person permits it.

LubeNLuv: "if you are such a "friend" to these alleged performers, I think your time is better served trying to convince all your porn-star "friend" with such obvious psychological distress that they should get their lives in order before attempting to engage in porn."
My answer: In the case of the two ladies, only one is my friend (the one who was donkey punched). The other was my friend, but not any more (the one who was pissed on). And both I met after they left porn.

However, I attend the conventions with ladies, and I inform them of the pitfalls of the adult industry; and the fact that there are many good people in the industry.

RandomPrecision: "This poster has attempted to say that because a girl was only 18, she got donkey punched."
My answer: That's your characterization, not mine.

Peace

Edited by - fundo on 4/24/2007 1:11:33 PM

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But I also think that evidence of systematic exploitation of produce workers was well documented and established, and wasn't simply evidenced by an obscure post on a website from a single user who doesn't give names.

So are you saying that you've evidence that the porn industry is in need of a Chavez? Where's your proof?

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To actually DO something about your principles requires action on your part, however. Mr. Chavez was a migrant farm worker who saw exploitation and spoke out against it, took action against it and led change as a result of his actions.

Words mean little, whether they are about principles or not. If a porn performer, or someone connected to the porn industry, has evidence that there exists a plight for porn workers then they have an obligation to speak out against it and do something about it. And this starts, just as with Mr. Chavez, with personal strength to say "enough."

Incidentally, and perhaps this is why you invoked his name in the discussion....he passed away 14 years ago yesterday.

Edited by - Lubenluv on 4/24/2007 1:34:13 PM

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Having re-read the topic, I see your point. This was never really about donkey punching, but some other issues. I just don't understand why people have to harm someone to get off. I suppose I never will...

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So you see, I agree with you. We disagree on the ethics of equating women providing adult services with the marketing of inanimate objects like cars or clothes, that's all.

Peace

Edited by - fundo on 4/24/2007 4:47:21 PM

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It is implied, then, and those who have some experience on sets will get it, that it is more likely that an 18 year-old newbie with no friends or connections in the industry is going to get pissed on and donkey-punched without her knowledge or *thoughtful consent*, than it is that an experienced performer like Tera Patrick, Stormy Daniels or Sylvia Saint will be treated in the same way by the same producer, and get away with it.

If I'm wrong, please point me to any production that shows Stormy, Sylvia Saint or Tera being treated like the young unknowns.

Oh yeah, this same abuse happened to Nikki Hunter at the hands of Dirty Harry, when Nikki was new to the business.

Edited by - fundo on 4/24/2007 5:01:24 PM

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And my point was that most business is at least a bit unethical. They all do things that aren't exactly things to be proud of. Some of them do these things quite openly and nobody says a word. Others keep them under wraps. Business isn't really an ethical sort of thing. It's dog eat dog. If you have to hide in a dark alley and eat your competitor, so be it but you'd better do it if you want to survive.

It is not my responsibility to make sure the young women who appear in porn aren't ignorant. And frankly, it isn't anyone else's either. They have a responsibility, as adults, to educate themselves or they don't have any business doing something as mundane as driving a car.....to say nothing of appearing in porn. Coercion is not an excuse. Drugs are not an excuse. Anything else you do in life, you are held responsible for your own actions. If it wasn't porn, would you even be making this argument? I doubt it. What if an 18 year old got high and killed people? How much sympathy do you think they would get? Do 18 year olds get away with murder on the basis that they're ignorant? I don't think so. And they never will. But because it's sex, people listen when you say they didn't know what they were doing. I call nonsense. They either know or they should know. They're old enough to know. They've been given every opportunity to be educated and to educate themselves. Ignorance is never a very good excuse.

Edited by - randomprecision on 4/24/2007 5:20:52 PM

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Peace

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As you say, producers who do this sort of thing are far more likely to do it when they feel they can get away with it. That would suggest to me that if they think there's a good chance the girl will stand up for herself, they'd think twice. All it would take is a few newbies to "give 'em hell" and maybe they'd realize they can't get away with it. If the girl does nothing, says nothing, they'll just assume they were successful in intimidating her and continue doing so on down the line.

Producers who do this should not be protected but at the same time, the girls should be able to prove something she didn't agree to took place. Again, it falls on them to be educated and prepared.

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Here's your claim from your first post:

Was she 18 at the time of the assault and battery (captured on film) and then went on to perform in "60 movies" before she got upset over her very first time?

Or was she a vet of some 60 movies, had this happen and THEN quit in disgust?

I said it earlier....I find your story hard to believe when you tend to change the facts to fit your arguments.

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Edited by - fundo on 4/24/2007 6:26:40 PM

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If the alleged "victim" had this happen on their first movie, but then went on to shoot 60 more thereafter, then she didn't quit the business over this incident. Perhaps it wasn't one of her favorite scenes, but nonetheless, it didn't push her out the door. Instead, it pushed her to sign up 60 more times after that scene.

Regardless, I've stated my opinions on your position. I don't think you've got a real one. If we were talking purely hypothetical situations, then we'd have a discussion. But you assert facts where I see none.

BTW, I'm not interested in her name. But it doesn't quite matter if it was a stage name in the first place. That's not her "name," merely her persona on screen. So I'm not asking you to reveal her identity as I've already stated...I don't believe it happened at all. Hard to ask you to reveal the identity of a non-entity, now isn't it?

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Edited by - fundo on 4/24/2007 7:51:53 PM

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If the other alleged incident indeed happened, and it was filmed, it's out there. And I'm sure someone else has seen it.

But whatever.....

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If I made one mistake with this thread, it's not realizing your forum had already debated this issue. It's a newbie mistake not to read the archives, and I made it. If I'd known, I wouldn't have brought it up. Also, I've never seen the dvd myself, and of course, I wasn't there when this incident happened, and I didn't even know this adult performer when it happened. I believe her story. She was sincere. In fact, I didn't know what donkey punching was until she told me in Nov. 2006.

As for the girl who was urinated on--she is appearing in some upcoming films. Yes, she shouldn't have agreed to the scene--but having come to know her, I found she was unstable emotionally, and I can understand how someone might take advantage of her. The producer who treated her to a gs posted on xxxporntalk I believe, and boasted about the scene. I didn't care for that forum and never joined.

I suppose the only person I'd trust to give the name of the performer too, would be the moderator, Hardware--but I don't think it's that important an issue. But, if he wants it, feel free, Hardware, to email me, and I'll give you her stage name, and her agent's name.

Is it true that as far as is known there is only one donkey punch scene out there--Alex Devine's? My friend told me they filmed her being hit--and I assumed that the dvd was out there somewhere. I'd be interested to know if it is.

Edited by - fundo on 4/24/2007 10:22:25 PM

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You sir are a troll. So who would believe you on the other girl fabricated story.

Bottom line if you know the name then just say it. You won't post it because your making it up.

You never knew Anastasia Blue and there is no other friend.

You have been pretending to know alot of people.

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You have been pretending to know alot of people.
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"Oh GOD!!! Let's not be STAR FUCKERS!"

Zen

"...you must be ONE! ONE with your DICK!" - Jose Duval, The Pillowman

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Just to verify that you're telling the truth of course.

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Luke Ford would pick the story up after reading it here, then what purpose would that serve? Why, just the other day Luke ran a story about one of the ladies I've been referring to. No purpose served at all.

True story, and I'm glad to be a contributing member to this community.

Edited by - fundo on 4/25/2007 2:26:31 AM

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And Luke won't report a story like this without names attached--so it was safe to bring it up like I did--with no names.

Edited by - fundo on 4/25/2007 3:28:42 AM

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BTW, your new avatar rocks, Raoul. "Buy the ticket, take the ride!"

Zen

"...you must be ONE! ONE with your DICK!" - Jose Duval, The Pillowman

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But this is not about Luke. This is about a man with a rapidly unravling story about people he's either made up or doesn't know. Now he tries to deflect the glaring lightbulb by trying to make this about an Australian Porn Blogger.

Once again, Fundo: Put up or Shut Up.

EDIT: Thanks, Zen. I'm using Uncle Duke as my avatar on all my boards. Trying to keep things simple in a terminally jangled world.

Edited by - raoul duke on 4/25/2007 3:28:10 AM

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Oh man, Rauol, I just realized you're that dude from XPT that I've read for the past few months. So I went over there and I see that you guys think I'm the person that started the donkey punch thread over there.

Well, I'm not. But it gives me a good laugh right now to read your cloak and dagger theories. I can tell you this, though. The producer in question in this thread is a member over there, and he posted about one of these girls a while ago. And when I read what he wrote, I disliked him more.

Yes, one of the XPT members knows that I'm talking over here about him--that is, if he's logged in recently and read that cesspool-board. I'm in Vegas all the time, and I'm not someone to dismiss easily in person--however much fun it is to do so in the forums.

Are some of you trying to interest Luke in this thread or the one at XPT? That might explain why a nerve has been struck by this thread. Maybe that person posting on XPT is Luke, trolling for a story?

I'd register at XPT but then TM would have my IP--can't have that. Peace--let's put this thread to rest.

Edited by - fundo on 4/25/2007 3:50:21 AM

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Edited by - raoul duke on 4/25/2007 3:54:33 AM

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