why most of the directors shoot double penetration scenes using the same identical "formula"? Mason, Chris Streams, William H, Mike Quasar, Mime freak.....where is the creativity?? - same white couch - same 2 positions - only full body camera angle, most of the time we don't even see the penetration. - Chris stream, william h mike quasar and mime freak keep booking ramon, ribas, and mr pete in almost of their dp scenes. this morning i saw the new Remy dp, by William H....it was depressing. 28 minuts, 2 position, not even a single second of focus on the double penetration. Mime Freak shot Veronica avluv in a brilliant dp, not long time ago, but now is following Chris streams' route....apparently yesterday shoot a new dp with Karmen Karma, male talents ribas and ramon LOL......kagney lynn karter dp in beautiful tits and dahlia sky dp in anal freaks 2 same thing, ramon, ribas, 2 standard positions, shoot all from one side. i have to mention Jules Jordan and Jonni Darkko for bringing creativity to their scenes, they always work around the action, they are generous on positions and angles. Devoe was a great director too but now it looks like he is not shooting anymore
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StarGrek Deactivated User
Under the moonlight. 1763 Posts 10/11
Posted - Feb 24 2015 : 11:44AM
Oh Jeff, dear Jeff. I can assure you that you are not the only one who shouts for more DP perfection. Nearly four years I am not only shouting for more DP creativity, but I am also shouting that even those two positions they are executing now, can be improved many many times more in every field they cover (photography, choreography, eroticism). There are some signs of improvement but there is a long road ahead to cover to be claimed as perfect. There are many DP positions and each one has many versions. Each version has its own secrets and its own executing algorithm which is different. For example the reverse cowgirl position has more then 10 different versions (Unfortunately there are directors who are not able even to execute one of them correctly) and the standing more than three. The lack of technical knowledge in DP action is VAST, is CHAOTIC! You have no idea how many mistakes are being done in some positions, reducing significantly their efficiency and their overall visual appeal. The most worrying thing is that they repeat those mistakes again and again ... Damn it reminds me of those lab monkeys who were given a baby toy whose objective is to pass three dimensional objects through relevant cracks. So they take a cube and attempt to pass it from a smaller triangular hole, banging and pushing on the way, hoping that in this way they will sometime succeed. However there is a good reason about this. Shooting a DP scene is not so easy as it seems.DP is not only a craft, is not only an art but it is a damn science. I am not exaggerating. I know very well what I am saying. There are DP versions where even the slightest detail plays a very important role, such as weather the DP will be committed on the bed or on the couch and if the anchor guy will lie on the couch or sit on it. Even the shape of each guys dick matters determining which duties he will have in the DP in order this one to be more efficient. There are many many more details that a director has to know in order to do a successful DP. I have so many many many things to say about DP to an adult director but I don't know from where to start and whom I should address to. I don't even know if I have the right to do so, thinking about all these giants of adult film making. But then again... I cannot stand this sacrilege... it is a pity. DP is a very powerful pornographic action and is not given the attention it deserves. I am not saying to be more DP scenes. It would be boring and tedious. I am just saying that when you do it, DO IT RIGHT and capture it right, in every damn position! That's all!
I'd say that from a guy's point of view, it makes a lot of sense to make DP as a kind of transition from pussy-only-sex to anal-only-sex for the lady. Because when two guys start having pussy-sex with a lady, then their transition to anal mood with her isn't simultaneous. First one guy starts wanting her nice ass, and then the other. Because the lady has her front to one guy and her back to the other. And it's the guy behind her who starts wanting her nice ass first. At some point in this transition, one guy is the anal mood with her, while the other is still in the pussy-mood. And that's when they make it a DP for her. But as the saying goes, forbidden fruit is always more desirable. And that's how it is with anal sex. The lady's pussy-guy will eventually start wanting her nice ass too. And that's when her transition to fully anal sex with the guys will happen. Both guys will go cock-to-ass with her and maybe even make it a DAP for her. This is the most natural sequence of events for cocky guys, who start out in the pussy-mood with the lady and then go anal on her. DP-sex includes both pussy-sex and anal-sex. It's the straddling line between pussy-mood and anal-mood for guys. Guys who are transitioning from pussy-mood to anal-mood will naturally want to DP the lady at some point in time. When you make the sex-action correspond with the way guys naturally change their mood from one phase to another, then this makes the whole scene look united, logical, and cohesive. Or else it looks like a series of unrelated sex-actions that don't quite belong together in the sequence that they are shown. Because it looks un-natural in terms of how guys are likely to feel and want to nail the lady. Edited by - Dan on 2/25/2015 8:27:58 AM
There's only a few ways we can shoot a DP fam. I don't know how else you would want us to shoot it. You expect us to get a go pro version involved and capture something different. Or maybe you want us to stage everything on a glass box to shoot it from different angels. Lol. I'm very confused Jeffanderson...Pls explain.
After reading this I understand exactly what you mean. I must say its very difficult to get guys to be unique and actually enjoy doing dp's together. Ramon and Toni are probably the best combo there is. I will challenge myself to shoot something different. Thanx for letting me know your thoughts.
Ribas and Ramon are not bad combo but nobody can't beat Manuel and Holmes.They are ruthless. Try to hire them if is that possible. Also you can pair Rico and Lex/Rob Piper for IR DP. Veronica Avluv's DP scene was one of the best DP scene in 2014, TOP 5 surely. Keep up the good work Mime and more DPs, especially IR ones. I'm still waiting Ashley Graham first IR DP.
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StarGrek Deactivated User
Under the moonlight. 1763 Posts 10/11
Posted - Mar 2 2015 : 9:13AM
^
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StarGrek Deactivated User
Under the moonlight. 1763 Posts 10/11
Posted - Mar 2 2015 : 6:30PM
I think that MF could create his own male DP pair and this can very well be black or interracial.
Manuel and Holmes are an excellent DP team. The defiling they gave to Adriana Chechik in Manuel DPs Them All has already gone down as one of my faves. I also think Mick Blue and Erik Everhard make a good team. As for different positions, I rarely see standing DPs anymore. Do they cost more? I remember in the early to mid-2000s they were much more frequent and the industry was much more flush with cash back then.
I'd say that the trick for being unique in a hot kind of way comes from DP-play and not just from guys having their way. Two poles inside the lady's two holes always look more or less the same way. And there isn't much you can do with that. But a good DP should be a lot more than just this. Because when two guys have real passion for their hot lady, then they go at her with everything they've got and not just with their dicks between her sexy ass-cheeks and pussy-lips. When a guy really wants the lady, then he will grab her tit and hold it, while he nails her nice ass from behind. And her pussy-guy, seeing this, will grab her other tit and suck on it to one-up her anal guy. It's hard for a guy to be unique with his dick. That's not where uniqueness comes from. It comes from what else the guys do, while they nail their lady's pussy and ass. Hands especially express all kinds of feelings, intentions, and emotions. What a guy does with his hands or doesn't do either shows a lot of passion or lack or it. Anticipation of the double-penetration also makes the DP more enjoyable to watch. When the lady's ass-guy goes for A2M from her, then instead of just going back to her ass, he should appreciate her ass-cheeks with his hands first. He should cop a good feel of the pretty lady's nice ass with his hands. A guy being all-hands with an attractive lady is considered sexual harassment in every day life. But it should be okay for guys to be this way with their lady in a good DP scene. They are supposed to want her and have her in every way they want, including with their hands. And it's not just about the hands. The guy should make some false moves and slide his dick around lady's asshole to tease the lady and get a good feel of her sexy ass-cheeks, before he goes in truly and fully for a good anal ride with her. The journey is often more enjoyable than the destination. And that's why anticipation of the double-penetration can be so much fun.
Edited by - Dan on 3/3/2015 6:25:50 AM
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jeffandersonn Deactivated User
1605 Posts 3/13
Posted - Mar 3 2015 : 1:21PM
Yep Manuel & steve are definitely a great team for dp scens, but the movie could have been much better.....again 2 position, 1 angle in all the four scenes. i ask on twitter ( chris stream was the cameraman ) why and he told me he follows one rule during dp: he never shoots guys ass! lol...so he basically said he skips every angle involved guys ass. i know it's not easy to shoot a dp, but damn, if you book a girl for a dp, shoot it well! at least 3-4 positions and a good use of the camera, try to work around the action, full body, close up of the penetration, and when performers find the right position stop moving the camera every 5 second...let us enjoy it! Mason's scenes are almost unwatchable for me.....she keeps moving the camera every 3 seconds literally!! even during multiple popshots, she starts close and then goes away then come back and away again. you can't please everybody, but you should try.....and adding positions and angles with a proper camera work could be the right way to do it. i don't think Ribas and Ramon are the best team for Dps. Ramon has wood problem most of the times and his dick keeps falling out of girl's ass or pussy during the dp, i can name tons of scene where this happens, and Ribas is not able to sustain most of the positions because of his "Small" dick. And when i hear Ribas or Ramon shoots a dp....i already know who will be the other male: Ribas, Ramon or Mr Pete. So annoying I give up with Mason, Chris streams, William h, mike quasar. but Mime Freak proves he can shoot pretty good dp like the one with veronica avluv, or Maddy's Ir Dp ( beside bad use of light ). here is a list of what i'd like to see during dp: http://imgur.com/GZFdIiG http://imgur.com/FLRE0rE http://imgur.com/JH4Ouie http://imgur.com/7q9Iijt http://imgur.com/9pmKTgC http://imgur.com/UGIci6t http://imgur.com/1yGt5HY http://imgur.com/Qk9JgbI http://imgur.com/ROyKoRt http://imgur.com/QRSzxAv and many more Edited by - jeffandersonn on 3/3/2015 1:24:54 PM
^ If you google "double penetration porn" in the images search for Google, then almost all pictures there show the DP'd woman's face. And I think this is a pretty good indication of what people want to see in a good DP scene. Without the woman's face, DP becomes a mechanical action that starts to bore you after a few seconds of watching. The focus should be not just on the woman's body and the sex she is having but also on how she feels about it and reacts to it. Without her feelings and her reactions, it becomes boring very quickly for the viewer to watch. But the thing about the woman's reactions is that her guys must keep giving her good reasons to react. Or else her reacting starts looking like bad acting. When the woman starts showing different reactions without the guys doing anything different, then this looks like bad acting and not the real thing. That's why guys should be all hands with their lady by grabbing her tits, her ass, and anything else they like. And they should also vary how fast and how deep they DP the lady too. When guys keep giving the lady plenty of reasons to react, and you can see her reactions on her face and in other ways, then this is what makes her DP so entertaining and interesting to watch. Because the feedback from the lady shows you what to do or not to do in such a situation. It becomes like a learning experience for the viewer, and that's why it's so interesting to watch. Guys are naturally curious about sex, and they naturally want to learn more about it from their every experience, including porn experience. Guys want to see feedback from the lady on her face, because this teaches them how to nail ladies like her in the future. Which of course, virtually every guy naturally wants to do as a result of his male hormones. Edited by - Dan on 3/4/2015 6:53:09 AM
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StarGrek Deactivated User
Under the moonlight. 1763 Posts 10/11
Posted - Mar 5 2015 : 9:29AM
Jeff, Matrix, Fahrenheit, Dan and MimeFreak you are all actually very right! You are viewing DPs from a different perspective, but your comments are yet accurate. There are many more perspectives in a DP scene and none is less significant than the other. That is the most exciting thing about them. The ultimate bet for every DP director is to quench as many of these views he can in order to draw as many as adult viewers is possible. But it is not always easy. Because it involves years of experience, extensive practice and lots of specific knowledge.
^ I'd say that the actors have a big role to play too and not just the directors. Because actors and actresses need to understand how to do it well and not just follow directions from the film director. Doing it well involves putting yourself in the right frame of mind, so that you will have the right feelings for the action you are doing. Or else it looks like bad acting and not the real thing. Perhaps the lack of diversity in porn sex-action comes mainly from the fact that it's the same guys who are banging the ladies in one scene after another and in one movie after another. There are many women in porn. But there are only a few guys. And that's where the lack of diversity comes from. Ladies get banged the same way, because it's the same guys who are banging them. Edited by - Dan on 3/6/2015 4:24:39 AM
has anyone in this thread ever done a DP w/a chick? if you had then I think the 'replies' & feedback here would be a bit more telling/introspective. dp's are intense, fun, and LOADED w/pressure to pull off even remotely steady & lengthy unless it's something you've been doing off and on for 5-10 years. even then, if you get a chick who won't settle down or runs from the dicks you're not gonna get anything cohesive. the pros make it look easy, but it's ALWAYS about the chick and how much she's enjoying it, or not. if she is, then finding your angles ain't that tough unless the dudes are struggling, then it's basically pulling teeth til you have enough runtime to warrant the money you're paying everyone for the scene. and I get all of the armchair quarterbacking going on here, you guys have watched a LOT of porno over the years. but watching isn't shooting or creating, so there's a reason why you keep finding new questions to ask here even though most of you seem to know everything you want to about porno (and that's NOT a dig, just an observation). my solution is you dudes pair off, get tested, and find some gals you can pay/arrange for a DP session that she can sell on her clip store (so it's all legal) and then get back to me, er this thread, and tell us all how it went. ;) by then you should have all the answers you could ever hope for, AND, a great memory of being a dirty DP scumbag like myself, lol. lates, von S.
Swine, you seem like the man to answer my question about standing DPs. I remember they were pretty common in the early to mid-2000s, yet I don't see them as often today. Is that because female performers charge extra for it and now that the industry is so cash strapped we see it less? You used to have it in movie like O Ring Blowout quite a bit.
standing DP's were just a hybrid of the top male performers taking the position to a new area to help make the scene and themselves stand out, since such a small % of dudes could pull it off. it was sometimes almost impossible to capture correctly if the guys didn't 'stand' in the perfect spot since you could get light stands, or the makeup table, or a window that would blow out your exposure stuck in the frame and it would ruin everything. it was cool when it worked, but it was also at a time where the sex in the scenes mattered more to the overall finished product. nowadays the vanilla tide has washed over almost EVERY company, and DP's are only being done by a small % of the female talent pool because the demand for raunchy sex is at an all time low (from the companies, not the fans). look at how many chicks don't do anal and yet are considered popular now. companies are just cherry picking pretty girls and 'making' them stars even if their scenes aren't ever volcanic, which eventually rubs off on everyone (male performers included) and now people are mostly performing at 1/2 speed in comparison to 02'-06'. I keep telling you, the internet companies RUINED it because they were always about the brand or scenario, and much less about the actual sex being hot. they had their scenes captured by people who were TOLD how to shoot by non-pornographers and it created this paint by numbers formula that didn't (and still doesn't) allow for much personal flavor or creativity from the shooter & talent. you guys have any idea how many girls tell me that the web companies tell them NOT to squirt if they are about to have an orgasm? if that's how a chick gets off, why would you squash that? oh right, your legal department is worried,..yeah, got it. < that's not porno! anyways, I'll end it here before this becomes a 600 word diatribe... thanx for the question bub. lates, von S.
I had no idea there were so many technical hurdles to shooting a standing DP. I can see why they're in short supply these days. You and Mike always made them look so natural in your releases. Or at least, as natural as something so very unnatural can look. Thanks for shedding some light on the topic.
I don't think this is a fair test of how difficult it is to make a good DP scene. Because doing anything for the first time, without any previous experience, always leads to all kinds of difficulties and problems. In real porn scenes, you usually have guys who have performed in hundreds if not thousands of scenes. These are very experienced guys, who have done it many times. They should do it better than inexperienced amateurs. Of course, experience by itself doesn't make you an expert. Because not every guy learns equally well from his experience. You need to pay attention to the positives and negatives of each experience you have, so that you will learn and adjust and make it better next time. But there are guys in the porn business who are good at doing DPs, anals, and other sex-acts. Take Mike Adriano, for example. He often takes on inexperienced hot women, who are doing either their 1st, or 2nd, or 3rd anal scene with him. He has these ladies gaping and rose-budding all over the place in his scenes. And it's not because these ladies are good at what they do. It's because Mike Adriano has learned so much from his experience that he is an expert at debauching the ass of any hot lass. I'm no expert at taking the ass of a hot lass. But Mike Adriano is. He often sticks a stick of butter inside the gaping ass of his hot lady, before he nails her good between the cheeks. So much lube might be dirty and rude. Which is what you need for a good anal or DP scene. I'd say that the most important requirement for making a good DP scene is making the sex as comfortable and pleasant for the lady as possible. This should be the first priority every time. Because nothing else will look good, if you focus on something else and make the lady feel uncomfortable.
you know what Dan, I never thought of that. -von S.
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StarGrek Deactivated User
Under the moonlight. 1763 Posts 10/11
Posted - Mar 8 2015 : 3:56PM
gee... I was out for a few days and things started to get a lot more interesting here...Well here it goes folks. My great confession! I have never participated as a male in a DP, but let's say I helped a lot setting many up. Why do you think I am shouting all this time? I didn't work with professionals, I wish I did, but I learned a lot working with amateurs. And Mister Swine IMHO you understand a lot more from DPs than many of the modern directors do now. Being an adult director doesn't mean you are good in every sexual activity. Each one has his/her own strong points that has acquired through the years after a lot of work in specific field. DP, is the most technical and physical demanding sexual act there is and trust me is a lot more complicated than many of the adult viewers, even directors themselves think. I have a lot to say about DPs but I am not the type of guy who will get in contact with the directors and be critical with them because I am afraid to be treated as a smart ass or worst, be totally ignored. If you want Mr Swine or any other director, we can discuss about them in private or in public. I am sure you will find my notes quite interesting!
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StarGrek Deactivated User
Under the moonlight. 1763 Posts 10/11
Posted - Mar 8 2015 : 8:37PM
Now as always Dan stimulates many issues at the same time. You talked about ways to make a DP better focusing in the mood or by executing several little actions which assist boosting the chemistry during the DP. I support you a hundred per cent. This is what in one word can be included in the overall eroticism of a scene. When we say eroticism we do not mean fuzzy pictures and softcore perspective . Eroticism can include the plot, the style, the acting, the "hardcoreness", the verbal and sexual communication between the performers, the sense of passion and generally anything that has to do with the atmosphere of the scene, each participant's sexual personality and the chemistry between them. I do not personally believe that the plot is to blame for the vanilla content of many sexual scenes by the internet companies. On the contrary I strongly believe that the atmosphere of a scene should follow and enhance the kind of porn that is portrayed in it. These two elements should blend to each other and work together. Porn belongs to entertainment industry. It is a show and as a show has to do very much about impressions, about feelings, about atmosphere. It is vital for the director to transfer this to his actors in order in turn to deliver the proper "mood". If for example the director wants to make a DP scene, the atmosphere of the scene should "smell" DP from the very first second till the end. It doesn't mean that all the scene will be nothing but DP.( This might bring the opposite results making it tedious and monotonous). It means that the DP will be the main event and the scene will be gradually lead to it, passing from all intermediate levels. From softcore to hardcore, from vaginal to anal and then to DP. The director will create the proper mood by "cooking" the audience and then he will quench their thirst by showing a glorious and satisfying DP session. This eroticism is very very difficult to be brought forth from the performers and the director but when it does it makes a distinctive difference.
^ I'm not so sure that DP works well as the main event, except perhaps in a gang-bang. Because anal sex is more hardcore than pussy-sex. And when you mix the two together in a DP, then you get something in between. A DP is more hardcore than pussy-sex alone. But it's less hardcore than all-anal sex. I think the natural progression in a porn scene is to go from less hardcore to more hardcore. Which means: foreplay, pussy-sex, DP-sex, and finally all-anal sex. The only thing about such a scene is that you need two guys to DP the lady. One of the guys can end up with nothing to do, during the pussy-sex and all-anal sex. And the solution to such a problem is to have a 2 on 2 scene. This way the two guys can DP both ladies and then go cock-to-ass with both ladies, 1 on 1. One of the ladies might end up with nothing to do during the DPs. But that's not nearly as much of a problem as having a guy with noting to do. A lady alone still looks attractive to heterosexual fans, but having a guy alone doesn't look so attractive. Edited by - Dan on 3/9/2015 5:57:50 AM
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StarGrek Deactivated User
Under the moonlight. 1763 Posts 10/11
Posted - Mar 9 2015 : 7:45AM
Well Dan DP is a category of its own. DP is not just vaginal or just anal. It is more than any of them. It is an action that includes both. DP is an uncommon, an extreme action. It is not something that couples do normally at home. This is what makes it special. Consider it as the special effects of the adult industry. A DP scene should be presented and advertised as it is, as the sexual action in which a woman has both of her holes stuffed at the same time. Nothing less. As a director you should not downgrade a DP to anal or vaginal level because in this way, the action will lose its identity, will lose its specific pornographic character. It is a matter of great significance for the directors to give this double penile intrusion impression. The viewer should clearly distinguish that the certain starlet has one dick in her pussy and one dick in her ass and there is some decent motion by both of them at the same time. This is very very very important for the director so he should create the proper setup and use the proper angles in order to ensure this in every, I repeat, every position that is committed. Now it is on the directors skills how creatively he will expose this extreme action, decorating the DP with the starlets beautiful assets, her expressions and numerous other erotic happenings. This is a trap that many directors fall in as they "vanillize" the hardcore character of the DP, either by creating wrong setup either by using wrong capture. The DP can be beautiful, wild, erotic, intensive, passionate but should always retain its hardcore character. The protagonist and the main plate in a DP scene should be the DP itself and not something else, otherwise there is no need to use it.
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StarGrek Deactivated User
Under the moonlight. 1763 Posts 10/11
Posted - Mar 9 2015 : 5:33PM
The DP naturally is more hard than anal because it is anal plus vaginal. In fact, as you rightly mentioned in previous posts the pressure the dick in the starlet's vagina exercises internally makes the anal penetration more tight. So physically the anal penetration is more difficult. That is the reason that sometimes if the DP is not committed right causes great discomfort for the girl. (On the contrary if it is committed right it can become very pleasureful, even more than anal). It is not like mixing black with white color creating grey shades. It is more like carrying a weight in your hands having also a travel pack in your back. However you are right sometimes the DP positions are so fucked up, that they look softer than anal. And that is not right! That is why I am shouting anyway.
^ I think DPs are usually less intense and less hardcore for the viewer than anal sex alone, because the DP sex-action is usually slower and more limited in terms of possible sex-positions. And you often get to see less of the woman's body too, because the guys get in the way of the camera. DP is different from both pussy-sex and anal-sex. But it's also different in terms of its intensity for the viewer. And that's important, because to achieve orgasm, sex normally progresses from less intense to more intense. Too much intensity at the beginning can lead to a premature orgasm. And too little intensity at the end can lead to a lack of orgasm. It has to be done the right way, or else the viewer gets a poor experience. In terms of the viewer experience, DP belongs somewhere between pussy-sex and anal-sex. And spending too much time on DP in the scene can make the scene drag on for the viewer. Because the sex-action slows down. And it looks like the guys have stopped progressing towards their orgasm with the lady. Guys don't usually cum during the DP. And having it drag on makes you wonder if the scene is ever going to end. You need to show gradually increasing intensity of sex throughout the scene, because that's how sex normally works to achieve orgasm. Or else it looks like the actors and their lady have lost their way and aren't going anywhere. And of course this applies not just to DPs but to any sex-action. You need to show progress by starting with less and then keep doing more and more, until you achieve orgasm. Which means that even foreplay should start with less and then progress to more, instead of being all the same from start to end. Edited by - Dan on 3/10/2015 6:13:59 AM
Links 3,4,6 and 7. Those are the best. Those angles are criminally under used in DP scenes. Jules shoots them but not sure who else does. Would definetly want to see more of those. Please directors!
