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All Forums > Tech Talk > Tech Talk Forum Page 57 > Dreamweaver 4
AuthorPost
Coyote
Member

Daylight Savings Time, is it really Necessary?
972 Posts
3/04
Posted - May 8 2004 : 3:07PM
I've been working on a web page now for a while (well just putting together stuff on photoshop) and messing around with front page. I went to Barnes & Noble and took a look at the web design area and found a large book on Dreamweaver 4. After looking through it I found it to be better than front page and wanted to know if it was indeed or just the same?

"Living Life is not made up of material things"

Mason
Member

872 Posts
7/02
Posted - May 8 2004 : 3:46PM
I really like Dreamweaver. Makes more sense to me than the others. My site was built with DreamweaverMX.
Em
Member

198 Posts
4/04
Posted - May 8 2004 : 4:55PM
Frontpage will generate messy code, 99% of the time the code will be invalid, crippling the very pages you try to create. Moreover, FrontPage is packed full with features that will exclude non-Microsoft software from accessing the pages you create with this program. One could go on forever about its deficiencies. It takes people years to get rid of bad habits they have injected into their system working with that particular software.

If you intend to buy something, I would suggest Dreamweaver MX 2004 bundled with Fireworks, but it is so expensive that few people can afford it. It also depends what exactly you need to do with the software. If it is server-side language like asp, or php, and you are not a coder, then Dreamweaver is a good solution.

If, instead, you are interested in producing quality webpages that are static, then you might settle for a component of Dreamweaver, which is similar to topstyle. In fact, buying only Homesite 5.5, also offered by Macromedia, will cut the price down to circa $100. What you get is a code-view, plus a very good CSS editor for colors and other styles.

If you already own Photoshop, you don't need Fireworks, obviously, although the latter is more efficient, web-wise. The bottom line is that I would think twice about buying Dreamweaver, settling instead on Homesite, or Topstyle, whilst I would never recommend FrontPage to anyone.

Adobe GoLive is another option, and is currently the only bigass web-design program that has Opera's rendering engine built-in, but it is pricey, and difficult to use, and leaves a lot to be desired as far as its formatting abilities go, including code efficiency.

hth,

Em

Coyote
Member

Daylight Savings Time, is it really Necessary?
972 Posts
3/04
Posted - May 9 2004 : 7:18PM
well thank you. I am not efficiant in code and want a more visual web tool. I have looked at adobe's web builder and will be sure to check it out further. I don't want to make a huge business web page, mainly one that will be used for my personal uses. I do want it to look very well done which is why I'm taking so long in Adobe making sure things will look good visually. Then all I have to do is import the images and other stuff to the web builder.
I really like Mason's web page and will also check out MX. So I should really look at Dreamweaver MX and Adobe Go Live? Does Dreamweaver MX come without fireworks? Is there a difference between MX and 4? Thanks!

"Living Life is not made up of material things"

ValrieVomit
Member

118 Posts
3/04
Posted - May 9 2004 : 9:32PM
Mason,
Did you build the site yourself? If, so you could explain the time it took with Dreamweaver MX and the deepth of the challange.


Edited by - valrievomit on 5/9/2004 9:33:19 PM

 
Em
Member

198 Posts
4/04
Posted - May 9 2004 : 9:47PM
Well, then you have 2 options: Dreamweaver or GoLive.
If you have Photoshop, a better choice is the newest version of Adobe GoLive! (CS), because cooperation with Photoshop is easier than with a third-party app.
Dreamweaver 4 is the 1999 (or 2000) version, really old. MX was released in mid-2002, and was superseded by MX 2004 (version 7.0), released last September. Since Macromedia sell only the latest versions, this is what you pick :) Dreamweaver is a member of a family of products, for web-design. Another is Fireworks, a web-oriented graphical application. Yet another is Flash, and the last one is Freehand, for vector illustration. All of them come in a studio box, with a discount (street price: 800+). Each app separately costs circa 400$, if you do not upgrade from previous versions.

Adone has identical prices (not surprisingly), so price isn't a differentiating factor.

Whatever you do, make sure that you have 1GB of RAM at the minimum. These apps are memory-hogs.

Em

edit: You can download limited-time, fully-functional previews of both applications, and see if they fit your preferences, etc.

Edited by - em on 5/9/2004 9:52:08 PM

snowman872
RainCoatReviews.com

400 Posts
6/00
Posted - May 10 2004 : 10:38AM

I use FrontPage 2002 but I'm not a huge fan. However, when I tried to work with Dreamweaver, it seemed much harder. From what I read, the latest version of Frontpage produces much cleaner code.

I am always trying to find something better. I am currently looking at Namo WebEditor 6, but it seems buggy. :-(

-- Snowman

Coyote
Member

Daylight Savings Time, is it really Necessary?
972 Posts
3/04
Posted - May 10 2004 : 3:49PM
Thanks for the info EM

"Living Life is not made up of material things"

PL
Senior Member

God hates us all, you know it's true, God hates this place. - Slayer
1726 Posts
10/03
Posted - May 10 2004 : 7:40PM
Coyote22,

I want to add something you may not have thought of, but I did when it was WAY too late, and that was is the site going to possibly end up large and VERY interactive?

Reason I say this is because when I built my site, I started in pure HTML (I knew the code, so I did it by hand), but as I see I wanted many links on a page (look at one of my reviews) and realized, I'd have to update every page when I added a review. I'm not sure your intent on the site, but regardless of what you plan to do with it, consider the content and if it's going to change or could change often. If so, I would recommend also learning a web language such as PHP or ASP along with a database (MySQL is the only one I'll recommend). Just a thought though, if you interested I can point you to a kick ass PHP/MySQL book. I wish you good luck!

Em
Member

198 Posts
4/04
Posted - May 11 2004 : 12:50AM
Pure html - well, many people understand a lot of things by that term, as it has been historically ambiguous... :)
All solid advice. I'd like to merely add that you can stick to regular html, and still have content managed modularly. Both by ssi & server-parsed html, and with the help of aforementioned DW as a cms. Any page you add, you add to a module that is built into the page dynamically when it is requested, and any link change goes through cms. If used well, Dreamweaver, and I bet also GoLive, can be a good substitute for a database. If one has knowledge of regex, this is even easier.

Em

DreamWeaver
Member

288 Posts
10/02
Posted - May 11 2004 : 1:54PM
Coyote
Member

Daylight Savings Time, is it really Necessary?
972 Posts
3/04
Posted - May 11 2004 : 5:42PM
What is regex?

PL:

Actually I do plan on adding on to my page and updating it often. I know that it will have a lot pictures and links on it. I would be grateful for any books you recommend.

"Living Life is not made up of material things"

PL
Senior Member

God hates us all, you know it's true, God hates this place. - Slayer
1726 Posts
10/03
Posted - May 11 2004 : 6:18PM
Opps double post.. sorry

Edited by - PL on 5/11/2004 6:19:12 PM

PL
Senior Member

God hates us all, you know it's true, God hates this place. - Slayer
1726 Posts
10/03
Posted - May 11 2004 : 6:19PM
Em, what I meant by "pure HTML", was the site was built purely in static HTML, all changes had to be done by hand to each file.

I'm a coder by nature so that's why I suggest a language (ASP/PHP), if you have any coding background in C or C++, you'll pick up PHP REALLY fast.

I haven't messed with XML so I can't speak on its behalf, although I would wonder which would be faster the DB or this "cms".

Additionally, I don't know how much XML can do, but the nice thing about PHP is you can do string manipulation and number manipulation. At any+rate, I would suggest this book

Em
Member

198 Posts
4/04
Posted - May 12 2004 : 2:05AM
Well, pure is not static. The latter can be full of unnecessary lint, and be tangled more than a Samson's beard on a desert :)

It is not true that static output implies static management, i.e. changes done to each and every file. I'll illustrate.

Assume you have a blog, with a blogroll on each page in your 300 pages. You do not need a database to call the blogroll data from a separate file. You can do the same on Apache via server-parsed html. You keep the blogroll in a separate file, and update only once. Apache then appends an updated file to all pages that have a call embedded, via server-parsed ssi. No knowledge of database required, no database required, either.

Furthermore, assume you have a 1000-page site, all static html. 666 of these 1000 pages link to a page X. Now, you want to change the filename of X. You seem to be under impression that this is done by hand. In fact, good software will update all links to that file automatically. Not as good as database or ssi, but still it does not require you to slave away changing links by hand. Similarly, a sitewide change and replace will take care of additions and other changes.

What I intend to say is that there is life, efficient life, beyond the database. The latter has problems of its own, often related to human-unreadable URI output, inability to handle Unicode, as well as sloppy output html that is nowhere near optimized, as well as chokes the user agents with unnecessary lint they have to download each time.

If I were the one to mention pure html, I would have clean, minimal, xhtml/xml in mind. How you manage it, build dynamically via functions, modularize via SSI, or manage in a truly static way - is a matter of convenience, and as such is not related to the quality of final output.

Neither PHP or ASP would be a problem to me. I am not fond of databases for my own reasons, but this does not imply I discourage others from using it. I care more about the user's experience and minimal, semantic markup, than the method of delivery.
I love XML/XHTML :) Lean and mean, with no formatting lint in sight. Well-structured, minimal files, if delivered as XML, are superfast, as they invoke a different parser in a browser or other xml-aware user-agent.
Click to expand
Em
 
Em
Member

198 Posts
4/04
Posted - May 12 2004 : 2:06AM
I would not recommend a single book. All you need is available in online tutorials...

Em

Hardware All-Star Supporter
All-Star Member

Your other left
14594 Posts
3/02
Posted - May 12 2004 : 2:31AM
A friend of mine has written a good editor which you might be interested in.
Mason
Member

872 Posts
7/02
Posted - May 12 2004 : 5:01AM
Ahhh, big kisses for you!
Coyote
Member

Daylight Savings Time, is it really Necessary?
972 Posts
3/04
Posted - May 12 2004 : 4:13PM
Thanks for the link Hardware! And thanks to all of you for the help..Well Dreamweaver just blushed but you know...

"Living Life is not made up of material things"

Em
Member

198 Posts
4/04
Posted - May 13 2004 : 3:23AM
It is indeed cleaner, yet only in comparison to what FP used to output. It's still quite atrocious. In any scripting language, a fatal code error is just that - fatal. Only thanks to forgiving rendering engines of all browsers the code produced by Frontpage is displayed at all. Unfortunately, this popular application is 7-8 years behind competition, and that doesn't take new, small tools into account, tools that are not "big bad web-design applications", but focused, limited tools, which are far superior to anything that is marketed by big companies.

Em




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