Gene Ross interviewed Johhny Thrust, the lucky stiff still married to the stunningly foxy Gwen Summers.
In the quotes below, Johnny explains to Gene how lucrative it is for female talent attending college to make some great money on the side working in porn:
That's the route that Leah Stevenson (a college student) and many, many other porn women went. Leah, as you'll recall, was an anal specialist (one, because it paid so well and two, because she genuinely loved anal).
Great money can be made when a woman decides to specialize in anal. Think about it, the going rate paid to female talent for doing an anal scene is $1,200 (possibly even more if they do a DP or DAP). Here's how it works out if the woman does just one scene a day, five days a week:
5 X $1,200 = $6,000 per week (minimum). $6,000 X 4 = $24,000 per month (minimum). $24,000 X 12 = $288,000 per year (minimum).
Bridgette Kerkove did 600 scenes (virtually all of them anal and DP) in just over three years:
600 X $1,200= $720,000 in just over three years!
Plus, Bridgette did magazine work during that time, also.
But let's say a woman didn't want to do five anal scenes per week. Even being a slacker, she could still easily clear six figures a year.
Popular anal queens like Aurora Snow and Belladonna are undoubtedly making a fortune and loving every minute of it. Imagine making more money than a great many doctors and lawyers just for having sex in front of the camera.
30 minutes from the beach, the desert and the mountains 29 Posts 2/02
Posted - Oct 30 2002 : 7:49PM
600 anal scenes - $720,000 surgeries to fix broken asshole - $100,000 spending the rest of your life carrying a colostomy bag - priceless
yes, and your point is? as we have seen, the ass crowd doesn't make it in the long run. your body can only take so much abuse. don't forget, gwen summers can probably command more for an anal scene than most do. i think the average anal rate is a little lower than the $1,200 she gets. so the average life span for an anal queen is probably more like a year or so and then what? even if she's making six figures, the fact she's never made money like that before means she's probably blowing it faster than she can make it. in any case, your argument that they essentially are making more than doctors and such is ludicrous. what they are giving up socially, physically and in the long run far outweighs any amount that they are making in the short term.
Hint: "Economics 101 for Female Talent." Gene Ross's interview with Johnny Thrust reminded me of how much money female porn talent can earn.Perhaps Bridgette Kerkove went overboard, but I've seen no factual information stating that she broke her asshole, spent $100,000 to fix it, and is carrying a colostomy bag.Bridgette Kerkove was in the biz for over three years initially, and she recently announced that she is back in the biz. Chloe Nichole has done a lot of anal and is still going strong in the biz. Ditto for Belladonna and Aurora Snow. I can cite enough other examples that would cause this thread to go on for pages with just my listing names, but you get the point. Plus, anal doesn't *equal* abusive.Johnny Thrust has been in the biz since 1995 and has personally signed the checks of the talent who worked for JM Productions. Johnny stated the going rate for an anal is $1,200.What does that have to do with anything? I've read enough financial books to know that even most doctors spend their money as fast as they earn it.According to the U.S. Census Bureau, in 1999 dollars, the average earnings for workers with professional degrees (M.D., J.D., D.D.S., or D.V.M.) was $109,600 per year. That reduces to the equivalent of less than 1.8 anal scenes per week.That's your opinion, that is not a fact. Many women get in porn, make great money, finish their college education, get married, have children and lead anonymous and happy lives from that point on. Also, not everyone shares your very moralistic, judgmental, and negative outlook on porn.
I agree with Pontus on this point. Women can freely enter and leave this industry as they wish, and they can choose which company to work for as they wish. If they don't want to do anal scenes, then they don't have too. If they do, then they will make more money.
I went to university myself, and was pretty strapped for cash, and if I had the option of fucking some birds in a porno flick whilst at college, I would have jumped at the chance, and probably the same goes for those ladies who do the same.
If they choose to stay in the industry longer than their college course, then thats great and good luck to them, If their ass, is showing signs of weakness, then they can just say no, and that would be the end of that. The industry certainly doesn't push a girl so far that she has to resort to using a colostomy bag (unless of course she's working for Max Hardcore).
30 minutes from the beach, the desert and the mountains 29 Posts 2/02
Posted - Oct 31 2002 : 11:30AM
you're right, there's no stigma attached to being or having been a porn star, and the transition back into a non-adult profession is as easy as quitting porn and getting a real job. to most of the outside world, it doesn't matter if you've been in 1 scene or 1000 or if you did anal or not. if you think the other mom's at their kid's school or the other people at the new non-adult job don't look and point behind their backs, you're living in a fantasy world.
much like yourself, i could go on for days about why I think your views are idealistic and naive and you could go on about why you think i'm wrong, but i have neither the time or inclination to get into this now or ever, so let's just say that we agree to disagree and be done.
Here's what hopefully really will be the final word on what has become a debate. Coffeycurve (by the way, sorry I misspelled your name in my last post), if you go back and look at my original post and your subsequent responses to it, it is clear that you suddenly changed the issue from the kind of money that women can make in porn when they specialize in anal, into a discussion about whether or not there is a stigma attached to having worked in porn. You completely changed the topic. Not only that, practically every word in your initial post was dripping with negativity, sarcasm, rudeness, and hyperbole. There was also a lot of moralizing in your post, which I find ironic given that you are here at ADT and are involved in porn like the rest of us.
In my original post, I was neither advocating that a woman do porn nor was I condemning the idea of a woman being in porn. Rather, I was simply pointing out the kind of income levels that are possible for female porn talent. Many ADT'ers have no idea, which is the primary reason that I started this thread.
Now, let's DO talk about whether or not there is a stigma attached to being involved in porn. (Remember, we're going totally off topic in doing this--but YOU brought it up.) Of course there is a stigma attached to doing porn. I never said otherwise. But to the extent that this stigma negatively impacts an ex-porn performer's life depends on a lot of factors. Was the person well-known before getting into porn? Does the person plan to run for public office? Did the person make one or two videos or a great many? Did the person appear in one obscure video that hardly sold at all or was the person in a high-profile, top selling video? Did the person dramatically alter his/her physical appearance when performing? Did the person become a major, well-known porn STAR or was the person little known? Etc., etc., etc.
FACT: Dating back to the 1950s, for example, there have been *literally* thousands of ex-porn performers who have left porn and lived out (or are living out) their lives in anonymity (no one has a clue). And by porn performers, I'm including ones who've worked in stills as well as movies.
FACT: There have been many cases in which ex-porn performers (usually porn STARS) have been recognized for having worked in porn.
FACT: People's reaction when an ex-porn performer is recognized varies widely. It ranges from scorn to neutrality to adulation.
Even when a porn performer is recognized and condemned, I can guarantee you that the person doing the condemning is a hypocrite. Every single one of us, to the man and woman, has done, said, and thought things that are less than moral. Remember what Jesus Christ said to the people who were just about to stone to death a prostitute? "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." Each person, one by one, dropped his or her stone and walked away.
Coffeycurve, you've said that my (and/or Squidmonkey's) views are idealistic and naive. That is a mischaracterization. Your tendancy when you post is to make a lot of assumptions and to exaggerate. You also seem to be very negatively biased in all of your views as well as combative.
Pontus
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Druber Deactivated User
187 Posts 9/02
Posted - Oct 31 2002 : 6:23PM
Porn is a viable job alternative for a girl and anal is payed well. I dont see the problem. (And Belladonna might become a millionaire getting her sphincter pounded. Good for her.)
Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous? 4283 Posts 4/00
Posted - Oct 31 2002 : 6:29PM
Stereotyping is very often so far from the truth with the majority of cases. Yes, it often reflects correctly on some of the more publicly known cases, but often completely misses the mark with the typical case.
That being said, getting back to facts, since coffeycurve was so eloquently talking about anal queens, to me that term means the best of the bunch of the girls who do anal. So his statement about an average price for an anal scene being less than $1200 doesn't make sense. An anal "queen" charges a more premium rate for any type of scene she does, and a smart producer gladly pays it.
As for how often the girls work, that varies greatly for each girl. Some girls who do anal only work once a month or so. Some work 5x a week. And even many anal queens often do lots of girl-girl scenes, which pay less than a boy-girl anal, or even do some blowjob scenes or non-anal sex scenes.
I don't think the "average" yearly income of a porn girl does reach six-figures. But for the A-list girls, it often does.
Finally, from coffeycurve: what they are giving up socially, physically and in the long run far outweighs any amount that they are making in the short term.
Wow, I've missed out on SO MUCH!!!!!!!!!! I better quit my job and go apply at a McDonalds right away!!!!!!!!! I can get a much better social and physical experience from that. I have taken ALL of my experiences from porn, and honestly believe that I am a stronger, better person for them. And for me specifically to be saying that is a pretty awesome thing.
I was pretty known for my anal and dp scenes, and I don't think I'd be as mature of a person sexually or emotionally if I had never been in porn. My life would have been great that way too, but I think it's pretty great now.
Sure, there seems to be quite a few girls who enter porn and leave with no more money or anything good than they had before. But maybe those girls wouldn't have gotten anything good from a different path either.
It seems strange to me that a person who's a fair regular at an adult website seems so negative and cynical about the people that make porn so great.
30 minutes from the beach, the desert and the mountains 29 Posts 2/02
Posted - Nov 1 2002 : 11:54AM
look, i'm not just being a dick, i really believe that if and when people in the adult industry quit and try to re-enter the mainstream, it is more often than not an uphill battle if not an impossible one.
i'm not saying it's right to judge people who have been in the adult industry, but the fact is that they do. i agree with you when you say they can make decent money in a short amount of time, but over the long haul, it's not worth it for them. i'm sure tricia is leading a wonderrful life, but from the many adult performers that i deal with on a daily basis, they're lives were in turmoil before they got here and they'll be in turmoil after they leave. and guess what, many of them really do snort their money up their noses. anything i've ever been involved with in the entertainment/creative arena, mainstream or adult, the use of drugs was widespread, so i'm not saying that adult has a corner on the market there. but there are exceptions to every rule and i'm sure tricia is one of them like a handful of others who seem to have their acts together. but overall you guys have to admit, these performers are not the swiftest deer in the forest which is why they're here in the first place.
whether you choose to beleive it or not, there IS a stigma attached to having worked in the adult industry. and i don't believe any of you who say that if you apply for a white collar job and you list Evil Angel as your former employer, that you'll get the same treatment as someone from a mainstream company.
sorry if i don't agree with you guys, but it's my opinion and i have the right to it. if fucking on film were as great as you make it sound everybody would be doing it.
anyway, if you want to flame me for my opinion, so be it. i have too much shit to do to ramble about this any longer.
Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous? 4283 Posts 4/00
Posted - Nov 1 2002 : 8:15PM
From all of the above quotes (most of which I actually agree with) you seem to be saying that it isn't porn, and especially isn't doing anal scenes that's the problem. The girls who leave being f'd up tend to be girls who would have had those problems no matter what they did. And society has it's own problems with being hypocritical.
I don't have a problem with what you've said, but it felt to me like you're just going with the flow of the part of society that condemns porn. For most of the people who are members of ADT, if they happened to make a mainstream movie and were looking for a DVD producer to transfer it for them: 1) a mainstream DVD producer sends in a crappy DVD demo to them. 2) a porn DVD producer from an Evil Angel/Wicked/VCA type company sends in a well-produced DVD demo to them.
I'm just saying that for MOST people at ADT, they would choose the 2nd because THEY don't look at porn as a stigma. True, that ISN'T the way it is with most of society, and of course I realize that. But why does it need to stay that way? It will is there are too many people who continue to accept that that's just the way it is.
Ahhh... but there's the difference. We at ADT really like porn, even love it. At some level it is a release to us, an art form if you will. The same is true of some people and death-metal, but to me it is just noise. Therefore I have no interest in its players, producers, the meaning of the lyrics, etc.
Now the one thing I will say as an ADTer that is different than with some folks, is that I believe that everyone has a right to their opinion. Even when I don't agree with them. That tolerance goes a long way, and it is what we need to foster in society. But to expect the general public to rally behind a "fringe" activity, and that is what I believe avid porn fans are - "the fringe", is way outside the scope of what I believe is probable.
P.S. I use "fringe" in a good way... I am a "fringee" in many aspects of my life, and damn proud of it!
Coffeycurve, we seem to have made progress. Your tone has gradually become much more civil.
However, my previous observation still stands: you disagree merely for the sake of being disagreeable, as the next two quotes illustrate:
See what I mean?
Another tactic you use is to manufacture an argument out of thin air and then right in the midst of it make it seem like you're debating with someone else. Example:
When we pointed out some successes, that doesn't mean that we were denying the existence of failures. No one ever said that some adult performers' lives aren't in turmoil or that some don't "snort their money up their noses." Yet, you rebut something that was never even said in the first place. Why? You seem to have a strong need to be contentious for its own sake.
Next, let's clear up a big misconception:
Your view of reality is very distorted in this area, so I'm going to cover it in more detail. The fact of the matter is that mainstream society does not view hardcore porn. Therefore, as a whole, they are clueless as to who the overwhelming majority of hardcore porn performers are. Sure, they are aware of extremely high-profile performers like John Holmes, Linda Lovelace, Marilyn Chambers, Ginger Lynn, Jenna Jameson, and mega stars like those. And they are sometimes aware of lesser stars who have appeared on television shows like Jerry Springer or Howard Stern or who have been profiled in print media. But for the most part, they have no idea whether or not someone they happen to see in their daily life ever worked in porn.
I'll give you an excellent example from my personal experience that illustrates this point. I once worked with a woman who once worked in porn. I had no CLUE, even though I myself had been a staunch porn fan for over 25 years! None of our coworkers, none of our customers had even the faintest idea. The only way that I found out is that she told me herself. She told me because she was proud of it!
Another example. Years ago, when I was in the military, I was friends with a very jovial G.I. One day, he proudly pulled out a hardcore magazine featuring him having sex with a beautiful woman. I was stunned. I had no clue and neither did anyone else.
I have been going to adult book stores (sometimes as frequently as weekly) for over 25 years. I have lived in various cities. In all of that time, while in an adult book store, I have only run into someone I knew TWICE! Mainstream America is not into hardcore porn and have no idea about most of the people who have appeared in porn. The overwhelming majority of people that I have known in my life have had no interest in porn whatsoever. They are clueless when it comes to hardcore porn performers. And then as I've pointed out, even if you are a staunch porn fan, most of the people who have appeared in porn you've never seen because porn is so vast. Hence, it's very easy for most ex-porn performers to merge back into mainstream society.
This also explains why so many people (men and women) have been able to put themselves through college while working in porn on the side. Johnny Thrust himself is an example of someone who did that.
Does it sometimes happen that a rank and file, low-profile porn performer will sometimes be spotted? Of course. But this doesn't happen nearly as much as you seem to think that it does. And even when it does happen, it's not always the big deal that you seem to think that it is. You seem to be unusually preoccupied with what other people think, anyway.
In your opinion. In some cases that's true, in other cases that's not. It depends far more on the individual than it does on society. As I've pointed out, in the majority of cases, society is not going to have a clue. But if the ex-porn performer is practical and makes good use of his/her money (and many of them do), they can definitely be better off in the long haul than if they had never been involved in porn. I'm a big Gene Ross fan. For years and years Gene has been interviewing porn performers to learn more about them and find out what their goals are. In countless instances, they report that they are using the great money that they make in porn to finance their education. Now, to stop you dead in your tracks because I know how your mind works, I am not advocating that a woman go into porn to finance her education. I'm merely reporting that many women have done that and continue to do it.You keep twisting words to try to make it seem like we have been trying to recruit people to do porn. All I ever did was cite the kind of income levels attainable by women who specialize in anal. From that point on, you've been running amok with all sorts of assumptions and allegations--and a great many of them moralistic.This is a civil debate, Coffeycurve. The mere act of exchanging views doesn't constitute flaming someone.Now if you're consistent, we shouldn't see anymore of your posting in this thread. Sweet dreams, Coffeycurve.
On the subject of anal sex and injuries, I used to know quite a few gay guys (don't ask), and I never heard about anyone suffering anal injuries just from regular fucking, with lube. Some guys would go all night, every night, taking it from anyone, the bigger the better. The only long-term problem was getting piles (hemerrhoids), which could put an end to a happy anal career! I don't see why it should be any different for women. Injuries are much more likely to be caused by fisting and plastic sex toys than by a cock.
First off the only injuries I can recall hearing about from anal sex is the tearing of the strip of flesh between the ass hole and the vagina. Usually this was caused by someone not being careful.
Next I too find the $1200 dollar mark a little inflated but maybe that is true. The reason I say that is that would mean that Jules Jordan is paying $7200 just for the Female talent is Ass Worship 3. Then when you add in everything else he is well above the average price for you normal gonzo video. Maybe that is true I really don't know.
Porn is a decent way to pay for college as is stripping and what not but not for everyone. Also for the type of schedule Johhny Thrust is talking about the girl would have to regulate herself to strictly scene work which usually pays less.
On Coffey's comments I would say it really varies now a days. Over the last (oh my god) 10+ years I have noticed a definate change in the female talent pool in adult. Before the one's who had goals and were financially responsible were definately in the minority but now they seem to be much more common and level headed. Still not the majority but a definate up trend.
As for the stigma it really depends on what you wanted to do. If you wanted to be a grade school teacher then you can probably scratch yourself off that list (parents groups are not very understanding). But there are plenty of jobs where you should be able to find employment with no more problems then the average person. However, the problems usually comes in when you start thinking "no one will know". Someone will always know and the person you really don't want to find out is the person who always does.
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DenverDon Benevolent
Firmly Embedded in Depravity 5914 Posts 7/02
Posted - Nov 2 2002 : 10:21AM
LOL
And that person more than half the time will claim to be good, and NEVER watches porn.
30 minutes from the beach, the desert and the mountains 29 Posts 2/02
Posted - Nov 8 2002 : 2:16PM
pontus-
with all due respect, I can't agree that doing adult scenes is a viable option for women who are making their way through college if they expect to get any kind of white collar job afterward. If you want to work in the adult industry or become a receptionist or service industry worker afterward, I would say it would be an easier pill to swallow, but if you'd like to be taken seriously in just about any field (excluding adult itself), it's more than likely that someone you work with will eventually find out what you've done and from that point you will be branded. I'm not saying it's right, it just more than likely is. People love to gossip and this kind of information would be way too good to keep secret.
Not to mention the fact that doctors and lawyers can work for 40 or 50 years with a steady income from that one profession while an "anal specialist" can maybe have 5 or so lucrative years at best beore she's completely worn out. Then what does she do? Well, hopefully she's made enough friend's to get a job at a studio. But other than that, her choices are pertty limited.
And geez, enough with your sarcasm, I'm not angry with you, I just happen to disagree with some of the things you've said. I apologize if I've offended you but I'd like to think that we can disagree without getting nasty. I also apologize if you think I disagree for the sake of disagreement. It's not my intention to piss anyone here off and if you feel that my opinions are wrong, that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. I'm not interested in proving you wrong or engaging in a battle of wits, i'm just stating a differing view from yours. it is obvious to me that you are a highly intelligent person and one whom I envy for having the free time that you obviously do. I don't mean that as a jab, I really mean it. We have become automatons in our daily lives and most of us are not lucky enough to be able to spare the time to engage in a good old fashioned debate. I wish Americans would adopt a more Euro style of conversation where we have heated debates in big groups over dinner, but instead we choose to watch Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
Sorry if I'm getting off topic. the bottom line is your opinion is that the guy whose married to gwen summers is lucky, I say have you ever been married to a porn star? I haven't, but from what the guys I know who have, have told me, it's not all that it's cracked up to be. and as far as porn being a recommended side gig to school, I guess it depends on what you expect to do after graduation.
Coffeycurve, no I'm not upset with you. Sorry if I was a little terse. Frankly, I had forgotten all about this thread until you posted in it again.
The funny thing about this discussion, Coffeycurve, is that we're not in disagreement (you just mistakenly think that we are). At no point, from my very first post in this thread up until this post, have I ever advocated or recommended that a woman do porn, much less do porn and specialize in anal. As I said before in this thread, I wasn't advocating it nor was I discouraging it. Rather, I was merely reporting on the kind of money that some of the women who specialize in anal are making in the porn industry. The economics of the situation were confirmed by an industry insider, Johnny Thrust.
Ditto for women working their way through college while doing porn on the side. I was neither advocating that women do that nor was I discouraging it. I was merely reporting that many people (men and women) have done that and are doing it now (including, for example, Aurora Snow).
Coffeycurve, I think you got the impression that I was advocating that people do porn because I was going out of my way to not be judgmental. We're all agreed that their is a stigma attached to doing porn. This stigma not only seems to be fostered my mainstream society, but, ironically, even by many porn fans themselves, which I've never fully understood.
And regarding my comment that Johnny Thrust is lucky to be married to Gwen Summers, I just meant that he's lucky to have such a beautiful and loyal wife and devoted mother of his two children. Despite the fact that Gwen is an ex-porn star and Johnny is a current one, their marriage has been going strong for years. A great many non-porn couples have seen their marriages falter after not even lasting as long as Johnny and Gwen's.
Coffeycurve, we're on the same team, dude.
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Wanker_Wang Deactivated User
The Beach 116 Posts 11/02
Posted - Nov 9 2002 : 6:42AM
Without divulging the price structure, the girl's fees are overinflated. Most girls have a hard time paying rent. Most do not ever go to college. Most don't have bank accounts. Most do not last more than several months.
The best counterexample I could think of is the Czech beauty Claudia Adkins who was smart enough to save her money and pay for medical schools. She's one who invested in her pussy for bigger and greater things.
The worst example is ****** ***** who's been in the business for over 3 years, has done hundreds of scenes, and let her hubby be her financial guru. Now barely ekeing by, they're having their car repossessed, they have to move, and now the woman is contemplating a bukkake.
Speaking of Claudia Adkins, what a babe. She has always been a favorite of mine.
Regarding "****** *****," that's sad to hear. But from the books that I've read, I have long since learned that most people across a wide socio-economic level mismanage their money (and yes, this does include most high income earners like doctors and lawyers). Wanker_Wang, you've probably heard the Government statistics many times by now: 95% of Americans by the age of 65 are either dead or dead broke.
Remember Ginger Lynn's story? At her peak, she was earning a very strong six-figure annual income in porn, but she ended up squandering her wealth by buying a mansion, driving expensive cars, doing drugs, being hit with heavy fines for tax evasion, etc. Ginger ended up going broke.
It's been a while since I last read the statistics, but I do recall that a high percentage of the people who win the lottery (I think it's well in excess of 90%), end up broke again in just a few years time.
But a person doesn't need to be a high income earner to succeed financially in the long haul. The book, The Millionaire Next Door proved conclusively that it's not how much you earn, but how well you manage what you earn that can make a big difference long-term.
Pontus
Edited by - Pontus Maximus on 11/9/2002 5:33:08 PM
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Wanker_Wang Deactivated User
The Beach 116 Posts 11/02
Posted - Nov 9 2002 : 9:25AM
The book The Millionaire Next Door is an awesome book. The common trait? "Always live below your means"
Trust me, it's kind of sad. I haven't been in the business for too long, but in a short time, I've seen a ton of girls go on lavish spending sprees only to lose it all and be forced to come back and do scenes. Or they squander all their money right off the bat to a boyfriend, drugs, etc.
I wish there were some honest financial advisors out there who force these girls to save their money. Current girls like Bridgette Kerkove and Nikita Denise are stellar examples of sound financial management.
Then there are 90% of the rest who'll end up escorting or drugged out of their minds wondering where all their money went.
A new girl being the Flavor of the Month will easily be replaced.
Financing college with a porn career is foolish if someone really plans on a white collar job. Since this would be the reason for going to college in the first place, I found Johnny Thrust's argument clever, but somewhat disingenuous. This is Economics 101 for Suitcase Pimps.
Despite claims of 'mainstream acceptance', most white collar employers, and indeed many blue collar ones, do not want the 'stigma' of porn associated with their business. It doesn't matter if they are well known or obscure, an anal queen or not, someone will inevitably find out. This isn't necessarily a moral judgement on the employer's part, it's just business, right or wrong.
No one forces the girls, and yes I know that she's a 'consenting adult' but an 18 year old is still generally naive and unable to see very far into the future. She could be dazzled by those figures, which WW has confirmed are inflated, and not look realistically at the consequences. Johnny Thrust certainly isn't going tell her. He paints a pretty picture with talk about earning money for college, but come on, let's get real. What he really needs is a constant supply of fresh young *cough* faces, and he's hit on a great lure, I'll give him that. It's the inflated figures and the 'financing college' bullshit that I have a problem with.
Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service. 6409 Posts 11/99
Posted - Nov 9 2002 : 12:48PM
While I never considered doing porn to finance college, I did consider topless waitressing. A friend of mine was doing it making a few hundred bucks a night. I was working my ass off for just over minimum wage. She told me that it didn't matter that I sucked at waitressing and that I'm a clutz. I didn't end up doing it, but if I had I wouldn't still be paying off my student loans...
That was how I started. At college full-time every day, five days a week, even though my scholarships and grants paid all my tuition, they didn't pay parking, lab fees, books or any of the other million things I needed to pay for. I couldn't get a day job - I was at school all day! So what kind of job can you get a couple nights a week that pays enough to get all those things you need for school? Nude dancing! It was easy - no training required. It was convenient - the bar let me come in whenever I wanted. I worked 2 nights a week - Tuesdays and Thursdays, 4 hours a night (10pm - 2am). It paid for everything. When I got sick of working in a bar, I went on to working for a bachelor party agency. That was even better! One or two nights a week and I'd come home with a guaranteed minimum amount of money! No more hustling for tips and drinks!
Then there's video. The pay is fine, considering the time investment. I do it more for the attention, the affirmation, and the glory (such as it is) than the money, though. I could probably make more money escorting or feature dancing - but I'm too insecure and shy to do either of those on a regular basis. Other than one nasty incident this summer, I haven't had any significantly negative experiences related to working in the adult film industry. I don't get recognized, I don't get pointed out, I don't get stalked. I don't think anyone would know if I didn't tell them. The title insurance company I used to work asked me to come back to work for them, and they DO know that I've done adult films. They don't care - I'm not in a high profile position. All they care about is that I'm an awesome employee in an area where it is difficult to find decent office workers. If I wanted a high profile position it would most likely be a different story. Okay, but I knew that before I went into porn. I knew there was a trade-off. I'm cool with that. Could I push the envelope? Could I be great enough that no matter what I had done in my past I'd be accepted in a high profile position? Maybe! It's not like the world is littered with great people. If what you have to contribute is greater than the social opinion of what you have done, hey, you're in. Clinton smoked pot - the american public decided it didn't really matter. Jerry Springer hired hookers - that doesn't seem to have been a terrible set-back for him. How many public figures have been alcoholics, drug addicts, violent crime offenders, adulterers and goodness only knows what else? If we like them well enough, we ignore it - or even glorify it. The attitude that "oh well, since you did porn you can't be a decent upstanding citizen", needs to go! Accepting it means perpetuating it. It means you buy into the lie. It means you agree that porn is dirty and nasty and that good people wouldn't do it.
What a great and intelligent post. Thanks for your insider perspective. I'm sure your story isn't true of everyone, but it's important to know there's room for all kinds of experiences and perspectives in the world. I think it's up to the performers in porn to make their life what it needs to be, and I don't think that the stigma associated with the profession is necessarily the end all, be all of the story. There are people who make the best of what they have, and there are people who don't. That applies just as easily to the profession of pornography as it does to any other profession. It may not be EASY to cross over from one to the other, but anything's possible, and that has been proven more than once.
Just because there may be a stigma against this profession doesn't make it ok for us to perpetuate it. It's a legitimate profession, and we as porn fans should be among the first to defend that notion.
That's my skewed and optimistic opinion on the subject. :)
Kimi writes: "The attitude that "oh well, since you did porn you can't be a decent upstanding citizen", needs to go! Accepting it means perpetuating it. It means you buy into the lie. It means you agree that porn is dirty and nasty and that good people wouldn't do it. "
I don't think anyone here agrees with that attitude at all, and it certainly wasn't what I was saying. I was just stating the reality of the situation, whether or not I accept it is not going to change it. I personally don't accept it or buy into it, but pretending it doesn't exist isn't going to help either.
My only objection is that Johnny Thrust paints too rosey a picture, complete with inflated wages, without any mention of a downside. It's kinda creepy. If everyone going into it were made aware of the possible consequences, that's a different story.
Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous? 4283 Posts 4/00
Posted - Nov 10 2002 : 1:56AM
Kimi - same story from me (great pic by the way!)
I started waitressing at a strip club one weekend a month during my junior year in college. Quickly switched over to being a dancer. It paid all of my random expenses for living, plus my monthly flight to go see my fiance in Toledo (I was at school at Missouri). Went from dancing to doing videos.
I have had both sides of the spectrum about having been a porn girl, as far as people's perceptions of me. The paying for living during college thing turned out to be kind of ironic, because my graduate (medical) school kicked me out because of the porn, although they masked it as saying I had cheated on exams. But that was when I was currently doing videos, and in the long run, it turned out to be a blessing. I would have SO hated being a doctor.
On the other side, when I quit performing, I went back to a small town in the midwest. Some people recognized me, not a single person treated me badly. I had several good jobs, including restaurant manager, medical assistant, and working at a hotel. The restaurant owner AND the doctor I worked for both new about me having done porn. It was something we didn't talk about after the day I was hired.
I COMPLETELY agree that for most people, DOING porn is not a good choice at all. What with the social stigmas, emotional roller coasters, and lots of other stuff, most people can't handle it emotionally.
But as for the money issue, I have to agree with Pontus. Porn girls are not so different than anyone else who suddenly finds themselves much wealthier. Some handle it well. Some don't.
Looks like this topic bounced all over the place from anal, to pricing, to college, to splitting us girls in two, and to what people pay for making a gonzo movie.
All I can say is that this business will treat you right if you treat it right. A girl can make some serious money if she really puts her mind to it, or should I say ASS to it. I loved anal sex with a passion when I first came into the business, but after an certain agent wore my ass out with nothing but anal shoots over 5 months, I soon took a uncertain discomfort to it. I had to take a break and then go back into it at my own pace. Girls who do anal scenes all the time have my respect. Do not get me wrong on this because I still like anal but having the likes of Lexington, Jack, Marcus, and many others hitting my ass, it tends to make me pucker up a bit. Wink Wink
Poor Turkey running for her life with Christmas Hat 3713 Posts 9/01
Posted - Nov 10 2002 : 10:37AM
Interesting thread. Either living below one's means, earning real big incomes, or having a huge inheritance is necessary to get ahead financially. It is real hard to earn real big incomes (in excess of $500,000) and most people are not born to billionaire families (one needs to inherit in excess of hundreds of millions to live a truly lavish lifestyle forever), so living below one's means is the only option most people can use to get ahead. Talents in the adult biz mirror the real world with super savers and non-savers, and non-savers abound. Too bad that most talents live for the short term and are broke as soon as their adult careers are over. Anyway with the stock crash most savers have lost money big time (me included). Most people in the US are fiscally in poor shape when they can no longer earn money, and talents just mirror the society. However, the earning window for the adult biz is quite short (a few years at best as oppose to a career of 35 to 40 years).
Wanker mentioned talent ****** ***** letting her husband squander her money away. Wanker, does the number of letters in the name have any significance? I suspect it does and I have a guess as to who that poor girl is (poor in multiple ways).
Good to hear that the Kerkoves are doing okay. I have read comments from Gauge saying that the Kerkoves leased the Jag etc., implying that the Kerkoves are not doing all that well financially, but then, I take Gauge's comment with a grain of salt.
Like all other careers, it is the combination of factors -- like having good money sense, having good attitudes, having skills, being able to work with others, etc. -- that determine success. Unlike careers with lengthy education requirements, where the education results in better financial knowledge (in theory at least), and where there is extensive screening for basic skills, a career for a female in the adult biz has very little entry requirements except youth and some physical attractiveness. Even not so attractive talents can get work if they are willing to do more for less (i.e., dap gangbang for the cost of anal or vaginal).
Maybe I should study for a financial planner certificate and open a business advising newbie talents. At least I can get rich and help some poor talent in the process. I will be honest and earn my fees the hard way . The modeling agencies should encourage talents to do financial planning. For the first 5 years of my professional career, I did no financial planning, and learned the hard way that financial planning was necessary if I wanted to retire in reasonable comfort. One learns when one is more mature that financial planning is crucial, and the earlier one starts, the better prospects one has.
Ron, you offer great advice to all. I sure hope that everyone heeds it. I'm blessed with being completely debt free and financially independent while still in my youth, which is why I have so much time to post here at ADT.
