For me, it just seems wrong. The [performer], most of the the time, has a higher financial status the [fan]. There's nothing wrong with having a Wish List. Nothing, BUT to constantly and consistently advertise it i.e. "Come spoil me" or "Check out my wish list," just makes it seem abnormal. No matter who the [performer] is. Let's be honest, there are more that DON'T pay for porn than those that DO. I, as the [fan], buy you something off of that list and in return I get what, an autograph and/or a DVD? Now what am I going to do with that when it's already online. I think it'd be a totally different scenario if you knew the [performer] on a personal level but most if not all of us don't. We'll never meet them without AGAIN spending hard earned money, especially in this economy, to go to a convention and even then it'd be a hassle. There's always going to be that sad sap or sucker who will spend his piggy bank money on a girl and be happy with it and good for me him, but that's the audience that the [performer] caters to. That guy or even girl who is so caught up in this that they'll do whatever the [performer] ask of them. I just think mindsets and expectations have to change.
Keeping an eye on the intersection of Pop Culture Blvd. & Porn Culture Ave. 151 Posts 7/11
Posted - Jul 14 2011 : 8:30PM
Several years ago, when I was younger and more arrogant, I used to download free music all the time. As I got older, wiser and had an actual income, I came to the realization that if I really liked a performer and listened to their music then they deserved some compensation. Since then I have made it a point to buy the music of the acts I like. In the music business I know they will get some small share in royalties, mechanicals, etc. In porn the performer gets a fixed fee for a scene and there are almost never royalties or residuals that they would see. If I buy the DVD or pay for a download it does nothing to benefit the performer, except maybe by showing producers a perfomer is popular, it raises their scene rate in the future. One way I know a performer I like will be compensated is by paying to join their personal website. Another way is to see them feature dance or pay for autographs at personal appearances. Many performers, however, do not have personal website or cannot be seen at PA's in a fan's region but do have wish lists. The wish list is another way a fan can directly compenstate a performer for their work. I think guilt may play a role in this. If you are enjoying a performers work for free on the Internet then buying them something off a wish list is your way of compensating them for their work.
Well what about this? Stephanie Swift contracted breast cancer in early 2010. She had a double mastectomy, among other surgeries. As it happens, she had no insurance and was saddled with tens of thousands of dollars in medical bills. Do you think that it would be pathetic to contribute money to help defray those bills?
That's a totally different venue. That has to do with someone's health and well being and we all know what it's like to be saddled with medical bills with no insurance and no true way to pay, no matter the illness and could use the help in a situation like that. That's a position where a person is truly grateful, and not saying they aren't in other cases, but that [Swift] is a life and death situation. You show me somewhere where a person has gotten healthier and life has been made better by buying them a TAG watch or and iPad or some heels. I think my biggest is the constant advertisement of it and the financial position of the [performer] and the [fan] but more so the weekly, even sometimes daily, asking. "Spoil me and I'll spoil you." With what? I drop a couple bills on you, someone I'll never know/meet/speak with, and you'll send me a DVD or two with an autograph. I just can't buy into.
It seems like some people think that porn fans who buy stuff on a star's wish list are suckers and this bothers them because they think it makes all porn fans, including them, look like a bunch of suckers.
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Solar4 Deactivated User
183 Posts 10/10
Posted - Jul 15 2011 : 6:09AM
Have you seen how poorly the record industry pays artists? You'd be better off getting the music for free then mailing a check to the musician. That way they would get 100% of the profits instead of 3% or whatever the percentage is from an album that they actually get.That's true. Many of the girls begging for gifts make more than their fans, so they can easily afford the gifts they're asking others to buy them. So I would concur, it is wrong for those women to do it.It does make them look like suckers. And the girls view those guys as little more than an atm. Edited by - Solar4 on 7/15/2011 6:10:31 AM
Keeping an eye on the intersection of Pop Culture Blvd. & Porn Culture Ave. 151 Posts 7/11
Posted - Jul 15 2011 : 8:32AM
^^^ In reference to how poorly the music business pays I would not make a blanket statment like that. It mainly depends on whether the performer is also getting songwriting/publishing credits or not. The act will normally get from $1 to $2.50 per album with most at the low end of the scale. Labels will withhold from that some expenses which is why most acts will not be seeing any money from album sales until they sell at least 100k in units which very few acts reach. But if they have songwriting/publishing credit they get additional money from mechanicals, radio airplay, etc. A porn performer does even have the chance to get these additional income sources. In the music they say the real money is in touring. The same could be said could be said for porn. The real money is from the feature dancing, escorting and personal appearances that a porn performer brings them. The wish list is another way to compensate a performer for enjoying their work and the idea that most of these performers are well of financially, in any long-term sense is not true in most cases.
+1 I think it's almost funny that there are people who get upset about this. Only on the internet. The girls should post pics of themselves with their gifts. Completely ignore these people.
Savings bonds. Which type of bond, and which nation? Canadian bonds might have better futures. If bonds can be bought in specific denominations, $69 would be a good amount.
I've noticed this Wish list thing going on amongst a lot of women on Twitter not just porn stars, even the least known glamour model has one and someone will eventually purchase something. I suppose this kinda thing has been going on since the beginning of time, men seem to want to lavish gifts on women they find attractive but I'll never understand it particularly now there's opportunity to do for women you've never met. If you genuinely think that's the best use of your money and for some strange reason that makes you happy (of course it makes the ladies happy) then fine, I cannot stop thinking you're absolutely bloody crazy but you do what makes you happy. I'm not entirely sure I'll ever hear a spin on the reasons for doing so that makes me change my mind that these guys are, well chump is such a harsh term but it's like the only word out there that seems to fit.
So here is my tale. Tell me if my expectation was off base. I was posting on the facebook page of a porn star (no need to out her). I posted a simple question. After naming the DVDs I already had featuring this star, I asked what should my next purchase be? The porn star replied directly, saying (and this is her response, directly cut and paste from facebook): "buy me stuff from my amazon wishlist and i'll send you some:)" So I check the list and there is something there that is within the budget I was planning on spending on a DVD or three. As someone with a very healthy collection and who buys both at a few local stores in my area as well as online, I know how much DVDs cost. The item on the wishlist that I picked off cost $35 ($41 with shipping). Now there was no expectation by me that I would receive a catalog of DVDs or even more than one, but based on how she responded to me and knowing the price of things, I think my expectations are reasonable that I would get a single DVD (and if lucky, a nice personal thank you and autograph on it) in exchange for this purchase from the wishlist. We had exchanged a few e-mails at this point, including me reiterating what I had already in my collection (I needed to add a third that had slipped my mind), just to make sure I understood how the process worked. I bit the bullet and made the purchase. Two days later, it arrives. She sends a pic modeling what was purchased for her. Once I get the photo, I reply with some shipping information. It is at this point I am informed by the star that the only thing I am getting is a Polaroid. Given all that led to this moment, I am completely shocked, feeling a bit taken advantage of. But, as they say, live and learn. I politely decline, explainging that a Polaroid would pretty much go to waste, noting that it would not be displayed (I assume it would be a sexual photo) and given that this particular star is constantly putting up photos daily online, I could easily just see her online if I wanted to enjoy simply looking at her. I then concluded with a polite comment hoping that she enjoys the purchase. At that point I was done. I did not voice my displeasure and disappointment at what I felt was her taking advantage of my generosity. Like I said, live and learn. Her next e-mail back informs me that if I had spent money on "something big" defined as $50 or more, I would have received a DVD. That got a response from me, fully detailing why I was disappointed with what she offered up as her display of gratitude, especially considering what she initially posted on facebook. I was not rude at all, but I just laid out why it was I was disappointed. At no point in any of the e-mails exchanged was it ever explained or suggested that I needed to spend to a certain minimum before she would send a DVD. Of course, I received no response to the last e-mail I sent. So here is my question: Considering I was not planning on just randomly sending her something from her wishlist and only did so because of her post, was it wrong of me to expect a DVD?
Edited by - infrareddreamer on 7/16/2011 4:10:24 PM
No. You were lied to, plain and simple. She ripped you off. It was a very wrong thing to do from a moral sandpoint and very stupid from a business standpoint. She basically has a good thing going and chooses to risk messing it up out of greed. It's just stupid. If she keeps doing iot it will eventually catch up with her. If she does that and appears at porn functions it's just a matter of time before she's confronted by a pissed off fan. Or even pissed off fans who put the word out that she's scamming her fans. If she had stipulations about what she gives out on the amount spent she should've made them known upfront. This girl probably has fans who'd be perfectly willing to go along with her "rules" if she is honest and upfront about them. Why risk messing up a good thing just because you may be able to get away with it a few times?
Keeping an eye on the intersection of Pop Culture Blvd. & Porn Culture Ave. 151 Posts 7/11
Posted - Jul 16 2011 : 3:51PM
^There was a famous long-term study conducted where the researchers brought young children (around 4 to 6 in age) into a room and placed a marshmellow on the table in front of them. The child was told that they could eat the marshmellow. If they waited and did not eat the marshmellow, while the researcher left them alone, they would get two marshmellows. They then tracked the children's success in school and in the workforce. There was a strong co-relation between those children who could defer eating the marshmellow, in order to get the extra one, and future success. I am of the firm opinion that most of those who get into porn would have fallen into the group of kids who could not delay gratification. Pornstars would rather eat the immediate marshmellow than wait and get two marshmellows.
It's not that I don't like it. I don't care. I'm making fun of you. Maybe you should consider it before you call someone a chump online that you might regret opening your mouth. Edited by - randomprecision on 7/16/2011 7:04:38 PM
Yeah I suspect you may care just a little bit anyway I didn't actually call anyone a chump I just mentioned that for want of a better term that does seem appropriate. But yes I do think you chaps that do this are chumps, of course it's not nice as I've already said but there isn't really a polite way to put it.
Keeping an eye on the intersection of Pop Culture Blvd. & Porn Culture Ave. 151 Posts 7/11
Posted - Jul 17 2011 : 1:24AM
^ Ask and yee shall recieve. Here is the link to the New Yorker article about the study. It is not the original source scholarly paper but The New Yorker is pretty rigourous in their fact checking.It is a long six page article but quite interesting.
You're entitled to your opinion but it's nothing more than that and you're logic is faulty because it seems to assume that every guy and every pornstar and the motives behind giving/receiving gifts are all the same. I agree with your "chump" theory if the guy is giving a gift with the intention of getting closer to a pornstar somehow and the pornstar he gives the gift to takes advantage of that. But that doesn't seem to be the case in every senario and it seems that there are times iwhen the guy simply wants to show his appreciation through a gift(s) and expect nothing else. Even the senario of the guy giving gifts as a way to get closer to the pornstar doesn't always mean the guys a "chump". From what I understand Christy Canyon knows some of her fans that buy her gifts very well and has a friendly relationship with them that includes going out to dinner with them when they come to town. And no, I don't and probably never will buy gifts for pornstars but I don't knock the guys that do and can understand why they might do what they do.
And on that fateful day, the hatred consumed me... 1423 Posts 3/09
Posted - Jul 17 2011 : 11:57AM
I've got an Amazon wishlist, but I only use it personally for myself to keep track of stuff I want (posibly that I thought of on the spur of the moment), that I'll forget about otherwise. It's just a tool to aid my memory. It's not made public to anyone.
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Solar4 Deactivated User
183 Posts 10/10
Posted - Jul 17 2011 : 12:42PM
As the other poster said your generosity was taken advantage of. Did you want to give a clue as to who she is?Yes that's true, it does vary, unfortunately though because of the RIAA's unscrupulous accounting methods, most bands don't make much. And most of the real money is through touring. And for porn girls that's true, most of them don't work enough to be supported by scenes which pay anywhere from $500-$1200 on average. So they have to find other sources of revenue, which is why a lot of them escort, but also do a ton of camshows. And that's an interesting study Mustela, I suspect you're right. A lot of girls in the industry probably have trouble delaying gratification.
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Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - Jul 17 2011 : 1:38PM
Of course your expectations were way off base. What did you really expect? I've been in the entertaiment industry for over 10 years and have seen thousands of people like you. I don't mean that in a negative conatation, but everyone feels that they are special when they are in front of that celeb. Throughout my career, I've done roughly 100 Meet & Greets with performers. Everyone, (generalizing a bit,) going to these things thinks that because they tell the performer that they are their favorite band in whole world and the band's music changed their lives, or helped them through a difficult moment in life, etc etc etc, and that they and the performer are immediatley going to be best friends for the rest of their lives. The reality is, you have 30 seconds in front of the performer. Long enough for them to shake your hand, pose for the shot, and sign the CD cover. The band is grateful and cordial to you during that 30 seconds, but once you leave the line, you're just another face in the crowd, instantly forgetable and dismissed just as quick. I use this example and say to them when people ask if I get to meet the performers: Right now, you're standing in front of your most favorite performer in the whole world, just you and them. "What your you going to say to them?" Performer: "I'm right in front of you! What are you going to say to me? I'm waiting!" You: "Uhhhhh!" P: "I'm waiting, let's go!" Y: "I'm a big fan" P: "I've never heard that before! Come on I'm waiting!" Y: "I like your music!" And there it is. Based on a drooling 10 seconds, you think you should become best friends. Unless you have "hook" and are more or less captive with a performer, you have 10 seconds to say to Simon Cowell, "Hey Simon, (offer and hand to shake), Rosco Fuji, I love your show!" and then you move on. Now the "hook" is you have to have something in common with the peformers and have something to talk about while you're both in the same location. My best ones were; standing at the front of the line at the AEE to get Kylie Ireland's signature while she was waiting for more slicks to arrive. Our conversation was about our cars getting stolen recently. We were 2 bored adults at the same time chatting like adults, not "I love how you swallow cum heh heh heh" Other notable converations I've had were with Linda Gray from "Dallas" about gunshows, and with the members of Bachman Turner Overdrive about Canada and Ice hockey. Bottom line; you're just another face in the crowd, regardless of the 3 emails and the outfit you sent. They only way you'd remotely register as more than a blip, is at a personal appearance, and you crudely say, "I think you should swallow 50 cumfarts from an Albino Midget, (apologies to Albino Midgets) and she has to call security. What I find amusing is that even though you got ripped off and played, you're still almost defending her by not outing her, allowing her to continue with the charade. Almost like the poster's that defend a star's honor on this site in the hopes that the girl is going to thank them for defending such honor. And the cycle would repeat at the next personal appearance. "Hey Suzi Star, I'm XYZ, I defended your honor on ADT!"
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Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - Jul 17 2011 : 1:42PM
Just so you know, you're off base on so many levels with this post.
Yup just like everyone else'sI didn't really come up with a theory beyond men wanting to give gifts to women cause they find them attractive, which I kinda think is sad. (sorry folks) I don't condemn women for taking advantage of this, it's not their fault these guys want to 'Show their appreciation' the way things are many will bug you to put up a list if you don't already have one and the fact that they're able to do this online without leading guys on makes them blameless. It does make me wonder about the bloke though. We're all fans but going from enjoying them in print & movies to deciding that it's a good idea to purchase them gifts is a bit weird to me.
I don't know, someone to keep their word, perhaps?Actually, I agree with everything you are saying here. I never go out of my way to meet my favorite performers in any field of entertainment. There have been occassion where I have been in a postion to shake hands and get the occassional autograph, but in my eyes, they are just people like me. I don't know them and I really don't have anything to say other than the usual compliment (unless of course it is in the context of my occassional role as a music journalist, but even then, I don't expect long-term personal relationships to come about once the interview is done). I certainly don't expect them to remember me simply because I am not expecting a chance meeting at an organized meet-and-greet function to start a long-term friendship. And the e-mails that were exchanged were all business. I was never expecting her to become a friend because of this and quite honeslty, that was not my intention at all. I thought I understood what I was getting into - a purchase from her wishlist in exchange for some porn because there was no real ambiguity in her wording on her facebook post.Well, I have never been to AEE or any other personal appearance of ANY pornstar, and I am not about to start. Just not my thing. As I said before, in the context of bands, your scenario describes me at the few times I have been back stage or at meet-and-greets of my favorite artists. Shake hands, get an autograph, move on. I chose not to identify the star in question because the question was not about who snubbed me, but whether I read too much into a comment that was posted. No need to turn this into some kind of Internet flame war.
I think there's more to it than the guy finding the girl attractive. They're showing appreiciation because they enjoy their work or their work brings them pleasure (obviously). You realize fans send Hollywood celebs gifts all the time and in those cases most of the time they don't even get a thank you card and the gift more than likely ends up in trash. The pornstar thing isn't totally unique. People give gifts to people who they like or do things that makes them happy. It's mostly friends but sometimes it's strangers. Sometimes it may not even really about the girl...it's about what would make the fan happy. If a fan has a fav girl but doesn't like the panties, bras or shoes she wears in a scene I would imagine it would be a very cool thing for that fan to see his fav girl suddenly show up in a scene wearing the thing he bought her. As I'm typing this I'm thinking I actually would like it if I could have some influence in what certain girls wore for a scene. I wouldn't spend the time or money to send it to the girl but I do think I'd get a kick out of selecting what a girl wore in her scenes. Like the point I was imlpying before, you shouldn't just write off any guy who does this as a "chump". Sometimes, they are a chump. Sometimes, they're just trying to be nice. Sometimes, it's their way of saying "thank you". Sometimes, they're trying to be helpful. Sometimes they're trying to build a connection. Sometimes, they know they'll really get off on the girl wearing something they bought her.Lots of people do lots of things considered weird by others but that's what makes us all different. I read some of the comments made on this site and think they're very weird. Some guys here are into or get annoyed by things I would never give a second thought to or never even noticed and yet it's a big deal to them. Personally, I think spending tons of money at a strip club is weird but I don't put down the people who do it.
I would like to see less high heeled shoes and flip flops, and more bare feet, natural breasts, and untattooed skin, but that can't be achieved by sending gifts.
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Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - Jul 17 2011 : 4:51PM
Wasn't trying to Flame On and wasn't really directed to you personally, but just the overall situation as we discussed.
Keeping an eye on the intersection of Pop Culture Blvd. & Porn Culture Ave. 151 Posts 7/11
Posted - Jul 17 2011 : 5:49PM
Off base on what levels? That when you buy music you know the performers/songwriters are compensated or at least have their recoupables reduced. That porn performers almost are never getting any additional compensation when you buy their DVD's or pay to download one of their scenes. That porn perfomers will have to have wishlists, personal sites, cam shows, personal appearances, feature dance or do escort work in order to actually make a living above and beyond their limited earnings from shooting scenes. That guilt, morality, ethics (call it what you will) encourage some fans to use things like wishlists to directly compensate performers for the work they enjoy.
No, what I was saying was I don't need to start a flame war with the star in question by outing her as well as those who may be fans and whose experiences may have been different from mine. Not a flame war with you. I actually have no problems at all with your perspective (especailly considering I agree with a lot of it).
My opinions vary on this topic as I agree with both sides. Like in a stripclub, patrons feel burned if they buy lots of lap dances, thinking they are making some "connection" with a dancer by spending so much time with them. Same goes here where some guys expect royal treatment by buying some gifts for the stars. I don't blame the stars for doing this and I don't blame fans for doing this. It all is about expectations and feelings. The poster who felt deceived was just that. I think it was wrong to not send a dvd and any star rewarding fans for buying gifts, should very clearly have a list of what a fan would get back for what value gift is bought. At the very least, in making a fan happy, if that fan emailed back feeling they were deceived, the star should just send a dvd to them and say sorry for any misunderstanding. The goodwill generated would only help her career in the big picture-just look at the amount of discussion this one example has generated. My other observation is something maybe I never knew about-how do stars reward their fans with dvds? Most of them get hired for scenes, but do they get an unlimited amount of copies of films they have a scene in? Or how do they have so many at their disposal to give to fans who buy them gifts?
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Solar4 Deactivated User
183 Posts 10/10
Posted - Jul 18 2011 : 7:15AM
And 100% > 3% So if a musicians fans didn't buy one album of theirs, but downloaded all their music for free, and mailed a check for $2 to them, they'd end up making more money.
Keeping an eye on the intersection of Pop Culture Blvd. & Porn Culture Ave. 151 Posts 7/11
Posted - Jul 18 2011 : 8:13AM
^^ The musician/act would normally make less than $2 per album if that was all that was involved. If they had songwriting/publishing credits then they would make more. The point about porn is that things like residuals, mechanicals, publishing royalties, etc. that help compenstate people in mainstream acting and music do not exist. Thus in porn you need to be more creative in order to make a living - hence wishlists.
^ I believe they are able to buy DVDs they star in (or perhaps any DVD from the company) at cost or next to nothing. It's another sorce on income. They buy them at a cut price and sell them at shows, conventions, when the dance, on their site, etc...at near retail price. They'll sign it to make it more personal to justify the price they charge. Because realistically, a fan could probably get the same DVD elsewhere for less.
An update with a happy ending. So I decide that I would take the Polaroid. Might as well take whatever is being offered, suck up the sour grapes and move on. I send my shipping address along with, upon reflection, a more obnoxious version of my earlier expressed disappointment. Today, a DVD arrives. Of course I feel a bit stupid for my chosen tone in the last e-mail I sent. But I was very pleasantly surprised. The star stepped up and did the right thing, in spite of the attitude in my last e-mail accepting the Polaroid. In the end, depsite a bit of frustration, she got something she wanted. I got what I was expecting based on our interaction. Thanks were exchanged. After this experiment, no more wishlist buying for me, but the star in question did the right thing at the end of the day, and that will be remembered when I am in the local shop or on my chosen website when I am deciding what to buy next. Back to simply being an anonymous fan... Edited by - infrareddreamer on 7/20/2011 8:17:03 PM
^ I'm betting your last email guilted her into sending the DVD. I have to ask...when you thought she was going to stiff you and not do the right thing, did it turn you off to her? Were still a fan or were you soured on the situation enough to not want to watch her scenes anymore?
It's simply an attitude of customer service and gratitude. In any walk of life, if you treat people well, it goes around. I'm glad the star made you happy as good karma will come her way now.
Just another bare bum in the shiower 1739 Posts 12/04
Posted - Jul 22 2011 : 2:28AM
My biggest gripe about wish lists are that they are repeatedly referred to in porn chicks' tweets. I have to wade through 100s of wish list references to get to the witty, controversial, politically-savvy and deeply philosophical tweets that I follow porn chicks for - those and the candid nudey I-phone pics!
The best list I've seen so far is Dana DeArmond's. Just one page of gifts, including Oxford shoes. I assume she wants a pair. I see only the left shoe in the pics.
Nope, not me. If I'm going to buy something for a stranger, it'll be a depatment store gift card to support a family in need or some food for someone hungry. My generosity does not extend to spoiled celebrities -- porn or mainstream. My gift to them is my time and my grateful acknowledgement of their talents in such forums as ADT.
MILF Quest (Brazzers) - review by NobleRemy
Posted - Jun 29 2011 : 8:44AM
