In the behind-the-scenes for VCA's Chasing Destiny, Demi Marxxx asks, "Can I cuss in features? ... I've never done a feature before, so I don't know if I can. Because I say stuff like 'Yeah, fuck my cunt!' "
She's about to do a three-way scene in a porn movie, but she's worried about bad language. It's so goddamn cute. Veronica Hart kind of messes with her a little, but eventually assures her, "Yes, you can say that."
I just think it's funny that even performers can get the idea that "features" are these neutered, sanitized things.
On the other hand, one difference I think does exist is that sometimes there's better work in makeup and hair in features. This is definitely the most beautiful I've seen Demi look, even though she makes fun of her big hair in the same BTS segment. I thought she looked spectacular.
MOD NOTE: Please don't come to the feature side to just put down feature films. Features cover a wide range of styles, types and the hardness of the sexual content. Blanket statements here are just going to cause flame wars. Thank you.
Yeah, I'm feeling naughty. I think I'm gonna go on the main forum, and post "gonzo is boring" on all the threads about double anal, RLD and Zero Tolerance. Just for the fun of it.
There's already one or two "porn is boring/I'm bored with porn" threads going in the porn pool. Can't say I disagree. The gonzo I've seen recently has been bloodless, sexless, utterly forgetable.
I'm usually not confrontational, but Tony, I swear, it's like every frigging time there's a positive thread about a Paul Thomas movie, even when the thread is not about Paul Thomas (i.e the Janine thread), somebody just HAS to say "Paul Thomas sucks". Every fucking time there's a thread about Taylor Hayes, somebody HAS to say "She began to suck when she went Vivid". Every goddamn time there's a thread about a feature film, somebody HAS to say "feature films are boring". Can you hear me say "DAP is ludicrous" every bloody time there's a thread about double anal ? No. I mean, holy shit, let's start an open thread called "FEATURE SUCK" in the main forum that would stay on top of all others where every member would post his obligatory "vivid sucks" 2-words post and the whole world would be wonderful and I'm rambling because I'm pissed. Gonzo sucks. I feel much better now.
I've watched 6 different RLD movies, with a total of 30 scenes or so. Of those 30, 5 had some heat to them. All the others were lifeless, bloodless, utterly devoid of any excitement at all. But what can you expect from a company that churns out one movie after another, with one scene after another in which all the action is like the one before, and the one that comes after.
I say, lets start a "RLD SUCKS!" thread.
Why do people who don't care for features, even read the feature forum, much less feel compeled to post here?
One of the main reasons for starting a separate forum for features was so that people who enjoy features could discuss them without insults from those who don't. It was assumed that people who don't like features wouldn't be that interested in hanging out on the features forum.
That pretty much sums up my experience with them as well, except that I hung in there for 8 titles before finally coming to my senses. Off hand I can recall two great bits from RLD. Faith's knob gobbling in Group Thing #1 and Lily Thai's bratty motormouth in From Her Ass To Her Mouth . What were your high points?
I'm not keen on Vivid either, but that's because of their butchering their titles for DVD. Does anyone know whether that's a thing of the past? How is their technical quality these days?
I love it when Vodka feels naughty ;) It's almost as if some people resent the fact that features are made at all, but you're right, the sex really isn't that different. As far as I'm concerned, it's better.
I think I read somewhere that even Rocco was shooting a Vivid flick, but I don't know the name of it. I'm curious about Chi Chi La Rue's Vivid work, that's gotta be the weirdest collaboration since Skeeter hooked up with Private, LOL.
I've been meaning to review "Dark Garden." If I recall, that's the one where in the extras, Ninn describes Vicca giving a guy a look that caused the guy to shoot. Hoo boy!
What I really would like to see is more "feature quality" sex scenes presented as "all-sex" product.
I'm being very particular in using "all sex" instead of "gonzo." I don't want the cameraman/director talking to the talent during the scene or during the post-cum wind-ups.
There ARE feature xxx films that are just wonderful. For example, "The Ozporns" was spectacular! I watched the entire video in realtime without using FF even once. It is a very entertaining movie that also happens to have sex scenes.
A good example of what I mean by "feature quality" sex scenes presented as "all-sex" product would be the "Strip Tease then Fuck" series from Zero Tolerance. I will have a review of "Strip Tease then Fuck #4" up within the next few days that will explain my points more fully.
Bottom line: quality needs to applied across the entire range of porn and not banished to "features." Raincoaters want to see pretty girls with their hair, makeup and outfits beautifully done every bit as much as the "couples feature" consumer... probably more so!
The Zero Tolerance titles that I've seen are clearly shot with a camera which imitates the film look . It's more classy to my eye than most gonzo , but also a little distancing . There's just something about video tape which screams immediacy . Not that it's bad to have variety , mind you , I just think gonzo is better served by video .
Vignette style porn on the other hand ... Kind of a halfway house between features and gonzo , taking some of the best from both ( and more importantly avoiding some of the worst from both ) . The Voyeur series has been good - from what I've seen of it - and the Offertes a tout series from Marc Dorcel looks quite promising too .
That was like reading a doonesbury cartoon, thankfully you made a point. Brevity man brevity!
Regardless of the length of your post you made some good points. I've been whining about this for a while. Take the eroticism and titillation from a good story and translate it to film. It doesn't sound hard but unfortunately is.
4 of those decent decent scenes were in Jake Malone's Fuck Dolls 2, which had some chemistry between the performers, and didn't have a never-ending round of anal circus acts as it's sole purpose of being.
The other RLD scene that is great is in Erik Everhard's Sport Fucking 1, the first scene with him, Tera Joy and Steve Holmes. Total heat and chemistry from start to finish. From my perspective, however, the rest of the film is standard gonzo stuff, with the same overall lack of heat that you find everywhere. The last scene is pitiful - it's some blonde shouting out cursewords at Erik and trying to sound sexy; she only sounds like an idiotic 12 year old.
I honestly have tried to see what is the big deal with Vince Vouyer. As someone wrote in a recent review of one of his films, VV has become the master of artificial heat.
It's true, according to a recent post from Brigitte Kerkove, that Brianna Banks recently went to Budapest to do scenes with Rocco for a Vivid movie. I know from the recent "Rocco Rocks" Vivid comp title that I rented, he looked plenty happy to be in scenes doing regular old vag sex, even with a condom.
As for some more traditional, feature-type sex scenes in a gonzo film - the scenes that Rocco does with a young Czech actress called Suzie, in "Rocco Meats Suzie" were along these lines. These two had a real liking for each other, and he paid some real attention to her in those scenes. Plus, no slapping, hair pulling, spitting, etc. He was rather gentle with her, with lots of spontaneous kisses, as a matter of fact. Now, the rest of the movie was standard gonzo - two overly long group sex scenes which were both a constant round of changing partners and orifices, with the men being somewhat brutish and the women fake-moaning, trying to look like they were enjoying themselves.
I'm a bit of a train wreck myself. I don't know where I'm going when I start typing, but it quite often involves a derailment.
I made a point? Great!
Agreed, conceded, no less depressing. I'll be the first to admit, too, for all my bluster, if you gave me a decent camera and a some greenbacks and a universe where I'm single, I'd just film myself or have a buddy film me fucking hot chicks and you'd either buy it or you wouldn't and I wouldn't really give a shit one way or the other.
I just realised that both those scenes I mentioned were from VV titles. In both cases however it was the performers that made the difference, not Vince. Whenever Faith gets to give head, she impresses the hell out of me with her attitude. And Lily, Dana and Eric appeared to be having a great time in their scene. Lily and Dana cracking up when Eric popped early was fun. Lily made that scene the best from RLD I've seen.That perfectly describes nearly all gonzo releases of '04 I've seen. That's why I've pretty much given up on gonzo.
And that leads in to my response to the threads subject line:
Good feature sex isn't really any different from good gonzo sex. Where the two differ most in my view is when the sex isn't so hot. Features tend to just cut their losses when a scene lacks heat and fall back on the plot however bad that may be. Gonzo seems to me to more and more turn towards abusive behaviour in a preemptive attempt to hide the lack of real heat. This reduces the chance that I'll find a gonzo scene I'm going to like.
I admit that many of the feature porno films that I've seen were boring, but it was probably just the particular porno films I was watching. I have nothing against feature porn in general. If anything, I think that style of porn has the most potential in the entire adult genre. They show that a porno film can be more than just a bunch of sex acts thrown together. A movie with a good plot and hot sex is what I want to see. Sure, it's difficult, but there are people who could make it work (didn't John Stagliano do that with "The Fashionistas"?). I should add that I feel there is room for gonzo porn as well. Sometimes I want to see nothing but sex acts. Like somebody once said, variety is good. Watching the same type of porno film all the time would be boring too.
Well done adult features are totally different than gonzo fare.
I'm not going to go into a long dicussion about this, I just wanted to state my one line opinion. If I get started, I'm going to go into a rant - but anybody who's read my opinions on feature films in the past already knows what I'd say, so I'm not going to bother.
Frankly, I'm a little dismayed that this thread even got started. If there weren't any real difference, we wouldn't have this forum as distinct from "The Porn Pool". But we do - because there are obvious differences between the two genres.
Go ahead and rant. I don't think anyone will mind.
I will say that this thread has gotten away from what I meant, which was just to relay what I thought was an amusing anecdote about Demi thinking she shouldn't swear because it was a feature. If that's dismaying to you, hey, sorry.
I think what most people were commenting on was how often the sex in features was assumed to be plain vanilla, not that there weren't differences in the genres themselves. But hey, if ya wanna rant, please feel free ;)
I agree with this, but too many other board members don't. Listening to them, contract girls are Playboy bunnies and feature films porno for the Bible belt (the latest handful of Vivid films I bought had rimming, anal, DP, snowballing & P2M, but whatever). I think this forum was created to avoid demeaning remarks & perpetual conflicts, which is why I was pissed off in the 1st place. Though it very rarely arouses me, I understand the place & need for gonzo. I just wish gonzo lovers had the same respect towards me.
Vodka, you are correct. This forum was created so that people have a place to discuss feature films, softcore erotica, etc (all that tends to get blasted in the main forum) without having to see 'Vivid Sucks' or 'features suck' showing up in all the threads.
+1 explaining why you think threads shouldn't be started instead of just slagging them hit-and-run style, while clearly missing the entire point of the discussion.
No I did not. I said features were neutered, sanitized things. I meant this neither as an insult nor as an absolute. For instance the mainstream film Eyes Wide Shut could be called neutered and sanitized but it was a good film and quite erotic. The problem is pornographic features tend to express this symbolic property unintentionally and to their detriment. To qualify the statement, as context alone should have, most recent (last 5 or so years), domestic (made is the U.S.), mainstream (made by a major feature company like Vivid, Wicked, VCA, Jill Kelly, Adam and Eve, et al) are neutered, sanitized things. Also this was in direct response to Obi Bong who said this is a commonly held, but false premise. I would likely have not set of all this unreasonable defensiveness had I said something like vague like "The statement whose veracity you question is not entirely false, some evidence exist to support it in limited circumstances. “. Maybe a would have been enough. In any case fans of features (of which I am one) are more knowledgeable and concerned about the problems many features exhibit, as they are more aware and effected by such defects. Also addressing ObiBongs original point many features do make it a point to avoid or cut out what some call foul language for whatever reason. Sometimes people with opposing views have valuable insight.The opposite problem is more prevalent in my view. Many threads in the porn pool will attest to this.
Just like comedies and horrors are all technically movies and essentially the same? There's a huge difference between the two. If that's not obvious, I shouldn't waste my time saying anything.
However, if the point is that gonzo and features have technically the same sex - I see a bit of that point when looked at superficially (although I think the assumption could have been better spelled out) but even there I still disagree when looking at it more closely. Context / presentation makes a big difference in terms of perception - and the two styles here (gonzo vs. feature) offer quite different takes on the same thing.
That's like saying that stand up comedy (gonzo) is the same thing as a Marx Brothers movie (feature) because they both make you laugh. Unless, of course, all you care about is the laughter itself - regardless of anything else - in that case, that's fine and I get that point.
Would you say that the feature movie Taboo is neutered or sanitized? If so, I think you need to clearly define your terminology so we're not comparing apples to oranges.Generally speaking, the terms "neutered" and "sanitized" are perjorative terms. Also, if we're not talking absolutes here, some qualifiers like "in my experience", "in general terms", "unfortunately, many examples of", and "with the exception of some notable exceptions", etc., would probably help ease some of the emotional reaction to the statement. <grin>Like Pulp Fiction? <grin> There are lots of examples of feature films where swearing is part of the script, and examples of feature adult movies where sex talk is perfectly appropriate to the dialogue.
One "issue" is that within "feature" (in the context of this forum) gets lumped softcore, erotica, and plot-based hardcore. When I think of adult features, I almost invariably think of the latter - whereas, I get the impression that many of the previous statements have focused on the former. Perhaps that needs to be clarified also...
I've watched three Italian features - Siffredi's The Bodyguard, Damato's Marquis de Sade, and Private's Cleopatra. Well, they seemed to be the worst of both gonzo and features: all anal sex, lots of group sex, DP's that go on too long - as well as bad acting, flimsy plots and heatless sex. Yes, you haven't lived until you've seen a DP between a Roman matron and two Roman soldiers, everyone struggling to keep their costumes from obscuring the action. And it's all made worse by the bad dubbing into English. And I really, really wanted to enjoy the films.
Like I've said before, I have enjoyed the Vivid comp tapes made fromt the scenes that Rocco has done for them. And I rented 'Island Fever 2', just to see Erik Everhard. And I mean to see all of him, with full body shots of his toned body. In nearly every RLD scene he does, you get to see maybe one elbow, or one knee of this guy at a time, mainly because he's usually the bottom half of a DP sandwich. Very frustrating. Luckily, the Island Fever movie had plenty of EE, and I liked the scenes he did with Tera Patrick. (And also found out EE watched Mr. Roger's Neighborhood when he was a kid, too cute).
I think the Island Fever movie was the type of feature that I prefer - no plot, and no acting to distract me, but it's on one-on-one scenes, with no circus acts. I wouldn't mind seeing Siffredi in a Digital Playground scene, what with their good camerawork.
Perhaps we should all wait to see what the Vivid movie that Skeeter Kerkove is directing will turn out to be like. Could it be the magic formula that we are searching for???
This is excellent! From now on, I'll just assume that gonzo is the more "neutered and sanitized" of the two. If I hear otherwise, I'll just translate in my head with this in mind. <grin>
^ Hey , I've never stepped on my girlfriend's head , or invited a bunch of my mates round to jizz on her face , so for me features are a closer representation of sex - hands touch bodies for more than just position changes ; women smile occasionally , clothes can be left on . I wonder how many of these double anal fans have ever tried it in real life .
Renee , I think you've just been unfortunate with the European features you've watched so far . Joe D'Amato and Antonio Adamo aren't my idea of 'good' directors - they place too much emphasis on the plot and not enough on the sex for my liking - and I'm not sure who directed The Bodyguard ( Sifridi ? ) . An equivalent American Gonzo example would be if someone had only seen RLD releases : not really very representative I'm sure you'll agree .
All I can do is suggest that you keep trying to find what you like , because believe me it's out there . Some of the European male performers are very good looking and apear to love women - John Walton , Hakan , Chosky Ice , Zenza Raggi , Andrea Nobili - and I've yet to see them in boring group sex or all anal fuckfests . Try something by Silvio Bandinelli ( Frank Simon ) , or by Steve Morelli , or perhaps by Alain Payet . They are all uncomplicated directors who can hold a plot together but understand the importance of hot sex in their movies .
I must plead guilty to perceptual bias here. Further thought and research revealed that my statement is not true. I had in mind things like this. [url=357207]It is a classic problem; everyone wants the camera pointed at different stuff. The whole multi-angle business did not help either. Some balance would be nice, but some are quite upset if they see anything they don’t like. I have noticed less effort is spent giving (often repetitive and/or fake) “insight” into male performers. I have never seen all the “When did you lose your virginity?” , “Do you masturbate”, “Do you like anal?”, “Do you like girls?”, “What are your fantasies?”, “What do you look for in a man?”, “Are you single?” type questions addressed to a male performer. A no plot no acting feature? What is left that makes it a feature?Gonzo is not intended to be representative of sex in general. Do you say “Darn that NBA, the way they show basketball is way different than when I play”, “Darn Those kung Fu movies how about some 1on1 fights without all the fancy stuff like when I punch people in my house.” , or “I wish those darn cooking shows would make some mac n cheese and ham sandwiches.”. As far as not being sanitized gonzo has a big advantage in both theory and practice. All the effort is on the sex. Features have to divide focus with other thing like acting, costumes, and the like.How many Basketball fans have slam-dunked in real like? How many gymnastics fans can do a back handspring? What kind of features have you been watching? Touching, and smiles, that might be worth a look. You are too tough on Joe his flaws make him more beautiful like a diamond. I think part of the problem is watching his movies one tends to suspect his motto is something like “Start strong, the rest does not matter.”.
One of my points. Whenever I read US-centered NG or boards, it appears anal, DP, whatever was brought into porn by gonzo, and little Zartyr goes to the floor, rolling and laughing, because it was already there in Italian features, before the gonzo craze started.In most cases plots and acting is on par with the acting and plot in $TV_soap_opera.
Lee O already listed some other Italian directors. Max Bellocchio (Alessandro del Mar nowadays) also did one or the other good job in the 90'ies. [...]
It seems I have a little fetish for togae, since I liked going to toga-parties ;-)
You haven't lived until you have seen Ron Jeremy in a role suited to his body type, as in "Baron of Darkness", e.g.
Since I am a German native speaker I am accustomed to dubbing and I can find the audio/subtitle button on my DVD-player. [...]I call this Artcore-"Gonzo". And since Lee O mentioned Alain Payet, we are already in France, the country of Colmax and Dorcel.
Or discover the new Gonzo-Queen Katsumi in a nice 1on1 movie, Kamasutra.
Besides the French, Italians, Spanish (IFG, Conrad Son, sometimes Ponce and Dominguez) the Danish at Innocent Pictures also do a good job, and I am eagerly awaiting the movie set in Venice from German director AlexD, who may have the potential to become the German Hyde, Ninn or Blake.
BTW, recently I rented "Riot Sluts" and was blown away. So I started to give Platinum X a try. But I was bored in the other titles, as I was with the gonzos of other companies. Call me a decadent Euro, but besides "Riot Sluts" the best gonzo I have seen, was Private's "When Porn Stars Play"in Chamonix during the winter (I guess the actual title was "More than she expected"). OTOH, "Riot Sluts" may be considered, at least in some scenes, Artcore.
I also could not believe that somebody mentioned "A Good Source of Iron" as his perfect porn in the "Perferct Porn - Have you found it?"-thread. I know there are different tastes, but this movie was even more boring than a GGG, and I seriously doubted that this could be possible by any means.
I have seen vivid films that have those things too. That is why I don't get these guys who call vivid tame and not nasty enough. Vivid has many sex styles and genres. You can't label vivid simply as a couples genre.
If you mean that features are in general less nasty than gonzo, you are probably right. However, there are many features that have the nastiness often talked about in gonzo. I have seen DPS, spitting, soft slapping, pulling hair, hard fucking in Wicked, JKP and vivid films. Hard fucking is not that uncommon in these films. I also see a lot of tame sex in these film productions as well.
Okay, I'll try to find some other Italian directors to watch.
Back to the "Erik Everhard - Mr. Rogers" comment that I wrote before: It wasn't that they were interviewing EE. They were just filming in the BTS EE talking with Tera Patrick. Tera was saying how she liked this TV show, and what her favorite puppet was (Henrietta, the princess). EE then says that the favorite for him was the trolley that carried the puppets around. Tera then imitates the sound of the trolley bell. There's nothing like seeing two porn performers waxing sentimentally about their favorite TV show when they were kids.
What I meant by "neutered and sanitized" was neutral and made more acceptable by the removal of offensive elements. I was disagreeing with ObiBong who in starting the thread among other things said that features were not "neutered and sanitized". I was directly responding to his post and would not have used those exact words if I had been making comments from scratch. In effect I was saying (many, but not all) features are neutral in that they have an detached and sterile atmosphere and sanitized in that they omit passion, enthusiasm, and playfulness. I made no comment regarding the inclusion or exclusion of any particular activities, nor was I particularly concerned about it other than the effect on atmosphere. This all applies to subjective tone of such features, they do tend to contain fake moaning and semi-rapid movement on occasion. To sum up the sex in many features is performed in the same mode as one might employ when disposing of trash.
I assumed as much. It made me think about how unbalenced it is that some effort is made to "interview" the ladies before things get underway, but gentleman are not given similar attention. I made a thread about it. Equal pre-scene chit chat for male performers
Introducing Kalani Luana
Posted - Oct 7 2004 : 6:18AM
