Well, I'm not so sure there's a huge demand for feminist porn either. It's an alternative type porn and if there were such a huge demand, I'd think it would be more mainstream. Sure, individually some people may say they're into it, but that's anecdotal. This can be why there's so many more porn films about step-mom, step-dad, step-brother, step-sister, double-anal, dp, deep throating, degredation, etc. than with sex positive, deep story lines, etc. I don't think that most people are looking to think when they watch porn, so the though provoking story lines or dealing with deeper issues aren't necessarily where much of the demand is. Sure, some people may respond to this by saying they do, but that's anecdotal.
As a cam model, I lost count of how many viewers asked me what's the biggest thing I can shove up myself, but rarely do I get asked what feels the best. This makes no sense that on the one hand they want us to be tight, but on the other hand they want us to shove big stuff up ourselves. This again is more for male entertainment. Maybe, they like to think women enjoy shoving huge things up themselves and some might, but from what I learned, for many it feels better not to because too big can make them sore and might also cause internal injury.
Also, though I appreciate creative role plays where we can work together to create and act out stories, unfortunately most of the role play requests I get are for incest-type stuff I don't do. This can be one of the reasons some cam models stay away from role plays all together. It got to the put where I had to actually write a disclaimer saying no incest role plays in my profile and with my live video feed. In terms of the painful anal thread people were writing about, I think the objection to it can be because some fans of anal wish to think the the performers enjoy it, and though some may, this again is mainly about the viewers and what they want to think. Thus, they don't want to hear about how it can be painful. Not necessarily opposed to that thread because it can reflect reality, even if the tone of the thread can be fetishizing. Then again, I don't live in anybody else's body and cannot speak for how they feel.
I like porn and the Golden Age of Porn 1947 Posts 9/21
Posted - Jun 4 2023 : 2:07PM
That's another thing missing from modern porn films too, the creativity of scenes and stories. One thing I hate most about step incest porn is that most have very little creativity in the plot or story. Most of the sex acts in porn have been done to death, stuff like gangbang and orgies all just look the same. Again, what's the use of buying this stuff when it all just looks the same?
Perhaps I haven't watched enough porn to know, but it seems like female directors often do the same types of scenes as male directors because they need to adapt to market demands. Oftentimes, female directors are current or former big name pornstars whose experience is in mainstream porn, so they may direct based on what they know. There are some exceptions and some who went against the grain such as Candida Royalle, who spoke about how she was a performer and disliked what she was expected to do in scenes, and found porn to degrade women. She's not the only performer who said that and some may turn against the porn industry, but she went a different route and created her own porn that offers an alternative to the mainstream at least to an extend. There's also Erica Lust (though I don't know if she was a performer) and Courtney Trouble (a director and performer focused mainly on the "queer" niche).
I saw one Candida movie. It didn't make much of an impression, so I never watched another. But I was decades younger. I might be mature enough now to appreciate whatever she did.
I like porn and the Golden Age of Porn 1947 Posts 9/21
Posted - Jun 4 2023 : 9:22PM
Just think of her work as SkinaMax movies but with hardcore scenes. Don't know why it's so hard for some guys to get into porn like this when we watched the softcore stuff on Cinemax when we were teens and everybody loved Shannon Tweed
I like porn and the Golden Age of Porn 1947 Posts 9/21
Posted - Jun 22 2023 : 12:02PM
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Context on this post by Paulita Pappei
Paulita is the co-owner/producer/director of Hardwerk Studio ( a feminist/queer gangbang series), over the past two years she has been trying to release her gangbang scene/film on the site but hasn't because of credit company's rules on blood &gore in porn. I say she should just release it for free and send it in an email to members
Well said. I never understood why there's so much more outrage toward showing sex (even if non-violent) than violence.
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Lezzyist Deactivated User
Make Porn Erotic Again 1736 Posts 9/19
Posted - Jun 22 2023 : 1:56PM
It's because the U.S. is puritanical, and a propensity for show-offish religion goes hand-in-hand with an admiration for violence.
Sex is only to be done between two people, male and female only (often closely related or one person underage, in religious and WASPy circles), who are blessed by the Sky Daddy to be together. Anything sexual outside those restrictions warrants BEING ON FIRE FOREVER.
People in and out of the porn world are into some crazy and creepy shit lmao
Hey Tessa and Everyone! I'm the Feminist Sexpert at Sexpert.Com, and also write about feminist porn for Scandalous Women and Sssh.Com. I'd definitely add Sssh, headed by the brilliant feminist director Angie Rowntree, and Lilly Sparks' Afterglow to the list of excellent feminist porn sites--in addition, check out older titles from the likes of Playgirl (I worked with the company and wrote some of their DVD cover copy) and Inpulse/Lennox Films--a studio that flipped the script by producing star vehicles for hunky male talent--Evan Essence starred Evan Stone, Velvet Thrust starred Julian Rios, etc. Also check out titles by Ms. Naughty, Jennifer Lyon Bell, Jacky St. James, etc. I believe Erika Lust, Inka Winters, Shine Louise Houston, and Candida Royalle already have been named--Shine recently rereleased Candida's titles at her Pink Label site. Hope this helps!
Hi Feminist Sexpert and welcome! I didn't know about Afterglow and looked it up. The website is https://xoafterglow.com/ Also haven't heard of Inpulse/Lennox Films or Jennifer Lyon Bell, but will look them up. At this point, the sites I'm most familiar with are PinkLabel and Lust Cinema. They're kind of similar and kind of different. In addition to studio produced videos, Pink Label TV also provides independent performers with the opportunity to submit videos to their site. Thus, we can make videos out of our bedroom, yard, etc. and submit them. There are a variety of videos on Pink Label, from amatuer that looks like selfies from somebody's cell phone to professional, polished, studio produced videos with special effects and so on like Hollywood features. This interests me not mainly as a fan, but also as somebody who did videos and is interested in creating my own solo content. Started doing this, though I haven't posted on there yet and don't know if I will. I posted some on XHamster and plan to post more. Though they're accessible for free there, creators get a small percentage of the ad revenue and the traffic is huge, so it can also be a way to reach potential customers for web camming which I also do.
On the other hand, Lust Cinema doesn't post indie-produced content and just posts professional, studio-produced videos. Like, I can't just do a video of myself from my backyard and post it on Lust Cinema's website. Some videos are from Lust Cinema themselves and some from other production companies such as Wicked Pictures. That said, Lust Cinema provides much to chose from and good variety. They have an XConfession series where we can write out our fantasies and submit them to be acted out in videos, but Erica Lust produces those and her production company tapes them. Also, it's other people acting out the fantasies. Neat concept, though. It also seems like Pink Label includes a higher percentage of videos in the "queer" genre.
Speaking of creating our own independent content, I'm off to the beach for an LGBTQ+ Pride Month event. May create some videos there, including a yoga video.
Thanks, Tessa! I look forward to seeing your content. I don't film content, but have written stories and scripts for Sssh and scripts for Blush Erotica, erotic stories and DVD cover copy for Playgirl, erotica for Good Vibrations, and got a Story of the Month award at XConfessions. It's always cool to meet other talented, awesome ladies in the industry.:)
Very true. Early female porn directors like Gail Palmer and Roberta Findlay, while talented, directed films that were not remotely feminist in content--although from what I heard, Palmer did want to move in that direction, and she did end up editing Sylvester Stallone's softcore film for rerelease, and filming the best trailer ever--one that totally objectified the male star. Gloria Leonard was also a mixed bag--appeared in mainstream porn and edited High Society magazine, but went on to direct some beautiful femme porns, such as Two Hearts and Intimate Desires.
Though many female directors make films that are more mainstream porn like men do, most of the directors in feminist porn or alternative porn I can think of are women. An exception is Justin Santos, founder of Joybear. Thus, with more female directors, there may be more of a move toward this type of porn. I don't know of many men directing porn in this genre. There may be some non-binary people, too.Edited by - Tessa on 6/25/2023 10:45:55 AM
Yes, the vast majority of feminist porn directors are female--the only two exceptions I can think of are Ron Lawson, a friend of mine who created the beautiful Love Scenes series of softcore videos for women, and Giovanni, who directed Erection Services for Inpulse--a film about a male bordello for women.
Enjoyed your interviews with MILF stars Lily Craven and Penny Barber, both of whom embody the notion of fearless mature women whom are sexually out there. Lily had problems with her marriage not of her own making and took the view that with the children grown, she was free to assert her independence and enjoy herself and pursue the career and lifestyle she wanted. Not everyone may approve but MILF fans love women like this, certainly I do. I also love porn scenarios with strong women characters who instigate the sexual activity. Though does this come under the umbrella of feminist porn?
^Very interested in Feminist Sexpert's response. To me, what you're describing can be all kinds of porn- a woman going at a man's d*ick and devouring it. In some cases, the woman instigating can be feminist porn, though I wouldn't say that in all cases. Sometimes, it's more the male fantasy of the aggressive woman begging for his ****. Not saying that's a bad thing, just is what it is. Feminist porn can be hard to define in words and it's more like I know it when I see it. Here are some of the common threads of feminist porn:
-Deep story lines and character development. Not delving into sex right away and more than just "I want your d*ck so badly and need to f*ck you." Also, allowing women to be fully human and have vunerabilities and struggles. This notion of women being all strong all the time goes against this. -Doesn't follow the standard porn sequence of bj, vaginal sex, anal sex (if it's an anal scene), and then pop shot often on the face. Feminist porn often has more foreplay, more focus on the clit (female pleasure center), and just more a full body experience. Also, they may cut into sex scenes then cut out to another scene before cutting back in again. When they do show the pop shot in feminist porn, the woman isn't on her knees waiting for him to shoot it off in her face. -Though there's occaisonally anal in feminist porn, I haven't noticed dp or double-anal. -In gonzo type videos without plot lines, there tends to be very beautiful settings and artistry in terms of camera, visual effects, and music in feminist porn. Also, as I said before, doesn't follow the standard sexual sequence. -Not the same backlash against condoms as in mainstream porn. Though condoms aren't used in every scene, they are accepted if that's the performers' preference and fans of this genre aren't turned off by them as far as I know. In fact, some may find safer sex to be a turn on. In some scenes, condoms may be not only included in the scene but highlighed with the topic specifically brought up or using them in a playful way, such as putting them on with the mouth. -Often full body camera angles and not much close up of penetration. Though there can be penetration, it doesn't have to be the main hightlight of the scene and sex scenes are often not mostly penetration in feminist porn. There may be at least as much carressing, foreplay, etc. as penetration. -Like somebody mentioned, feminist porn isn't just about what we see on screen but also behind the scene working conditions, which we might not always know.
Thank you for your kind words, Jack! I appreciate them. I loved speaking with both Lily and Penny, Lily in particular has become a dear sisterfriend, and she interviewed me on her podcast. And yes, I do love the way that she seizes control of her sexuality in her scenes, including the one I wrote for her at Blush Erotica! I believe that a strong woman instigating sex can indeed be feminist porn, with certain qualifiers. If the character is knowingly seducing another woman's man, to me this is not feminist, especially if the man is a stepfather, brother-in-law, etc. I have indeed had some people argue to me that most porn is feminist because the films feature female main characters who are sexually aggressive--but in my view, many more conditions must be in place, such as romance, sensitivity, and intelligent, dimensional female heroines. And yes, Lily and Penny have this down to an art!
And while it's cool when women instigate the action, I also love it when an attractive, charming man seduces a strong woman in the story, with him taking on the male minx or seducer role--with him offering to act out her fantasies and release her from her inhibitions, perhaps regaling her with gifts, dirty talk, kissing and dancing, etc.; while at the same time respecting her, and never using force or duplicity.
Excellent recipe for feminist porn, Tessa; right on the money. I also would add that, in feminist porn, the male talent is generally more attractive and sensitive, and the camera focuses on them much more than in typical porn. You also see a greater variety of female body types, and an emphasis on realistic ways to achieve female pleasure and genuine orgasms. Also, the female characters are more dimensional--you tend to know what they do for a living, more about their families and friends, and what motivates their great strength and their desire for pleasure.
Another aspect of feminist porn that stands out to me are the lack of "pretty girl" scenes at the beginning that are common in mainsteam porn where the woman just models for the camera and the guy doesn't come in until later and she starts immediately sucking him off; or the woman is interviewed and asked questions such as "how old were you the first time you had sex" (which I never hear male performers being asked in porn videos). Sometimes a guy behind the camera is interviewing her and sometimes the male performer is in such cases, but I don't notice this in feminist porn.
True! Inpulse's Erection Services, a feminist porn about a male bordello for women, actually opened with some male beauty shots, with stars like Alex Sanders, Chris Cannon and Julian Rios posing for the camera. And yes, I find those interview segments so creepy. I keep waiting for the day the actress will say, "None of your friggin' business!", stand up and leave.:)
Yeah, or maybe just say something like "30" since it seems like they're expecting her to say a young age. I felt awkward talking about anything under age 18, even in the past tense, so I just said 18 when asked that. In retrospect, maybe I should have said an older age for the heck of it lol.
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Lezzyist Deactivated User
Make Porn Erotic Again 1736 Posts 9/19
Posted - Jun 30 2023 : 4:48PM
Yeah, that "how young were you when you first had sex" question is absolutely pedo content, and I have 0 interest in pretending that it's not.
^Though this is the first I heard of Whitney Wright and haven't seen any of her videos, I'm now a fan after reading that. Generally, I prefer to stay away from doing interviews and just do a blog whre I can share my input in my words. With interviews, the interviewer has some control and may have an agenda trying to promote a certain narrative, asking questions in a way that leads to that. I'm not a major star and don't get many interview requests, which is fine with me. However, this year at AVN somebody with a YouTube channel asked me to do an interview, thinking I was there just as a fan. This is understandable considering how I was dressed plus I was by myself and not with any company. When I told him I did some videos back in the day and currently did live camming, he looked at his 2 colleagues and then expressed interest in still doing the interview. When I asked him what the interview was about, he said porn's effects on society. Though my focus is more in sex workers' human rights, I still agreed to do the interview and steered it in that direction.
Also did an interview in writing where an administrator from a live cam performers' online community site emailed me a questionnaire and I responded. I enjoyed that, especially because he said I can add my own questions and respond if there's anything the questionnaire didn't ask that I wish it did. Thankfully, there were no questions about how old I was when I first had sex or if I was promiscuous in high school. Interesting that this topic of bad questions came up on here because I actually started a series on my blog about the worst questions to ask workers. Not sure if I'd still call it a series because I started it a year ago and only posted once on this topic, though I may post again and I do- questions such as the ones mentioned here will be at the top of my list of worst questions to ask sex workers. Anyway, here's the blog entry: https://veganvixentessa.blogspot.com/2022/07/worst-questions-to-ask-sex-workers.html
One compliment that I get from interview subjects is that I treat them as people, asking about their work, what the industry can do better to serve them, their goals and their creative projects. I NEVER ask about their personal history, their sexual history, their favorite positions, etc. I've had a number of stars say that their favorite interviews are with me--I'm so flattered to hear this, at the same time I think that my fellow interviewers need to do better./: PS: Tessa, let me know if you want to do an interview with me, anytime!
Thanks for the offer. I'm generally not into doing interviews for reasons mentioned, but I'm tempted now and also interested in reading interviews you've done. It looks like your interviews get rave reviews on here.
Thanks and sure! Here are some of my recent interviews: https://scandalouswoman.com/interviews/the-year-of-the-foxxx-adult-star-ana-foxxx-makes-waves-and-a-difference/ https://www.sexpert.com/the-feminist-sexpert-interviews-the-stud-boss-elaina-st-james-gets-her-man-in-her-first-boy-girl-scene/ https://www.sexpert.com/powerful-penny-the-feminist-sexpert-interviews-penny-barber/
Cool, thanks for posting! Here's my coverage of last year's festival: https://scandalouswoman.com/entertainment/this-ones-for-the-ladies-male-stripper-documentary-set-to-debut/
Thanks for the interesting replies to my query re sexually assertive women and feminist porn. Should have said was aware the sort of scenario where the woman aggressively makes the moves on her daughter's boyfriend could hardly be classed as feminist!
Used to love Suze Randall's porn scenarios which could hardly be classed as feminist either but had superb photography, beautiful women and good-looking males, and the sex while often raunchy had passionate moments too.
Thanks Jack, and agreed! I love Suze's work, and I know a gentleman who worked with her, when she shot him for Playgirl. She helped to innovate the female gaze!
This discussion gets me thinking about the topic of whether feminist porn is just switching gender roles and portraying women in ways men are portrayed in traditional porn, or is it something different all together. Like is it just replacing the male gaze with the female gaze and putting women and men in roles tradionally occupied by the opposite sex. For example, the movie about a bordello where men sex workers service women clients that the Feminist Sexpert brought up. This isn't so different from mainstream porn except the reversal of gender roles in which men are the sex workers and women are the clients. Typically, it's vice versa. Or, does feminist porn enact it's own different style. Seems like it can be a mixture of both.
^ it reminds me of how some feminist proponents leave out a class based analysis (proletarian feminism vs bourgeois feminism). For some it's "good enough" to do as you'd just postulated as opposed to replacing the current system in full (achieving equality in the current system versus changing the system itself). Like you'd mentioned, is it just replacing the male gaze with the female or replacing the "gaze" fully and changing the system fundamentally?
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Lezzyist Deactivated User
Make Porn Erotic Again 1736 Posts 9/19
Posted - Jul 3 2023 : 9:00PM
I wouldn't say feminist porn as a whole is about taking on stereotypically masculine roles as if that is a mandatory theme for the product to be feminist, but I think a lot of people in that porn space try to rely on not following gender norms as a selling point. When I scroll pinklabel.tv every now and then, I get the sense that some of it is excessively performative in the opposite way of average corporate porn. Like very over-the-top and fake, but in an effort to play up being different. Nothing wrong with that per se, but when I go looking for something real, it kinda irks just the same as the average Mindgeek product.
I would say feminist porn is a production that equalizes or emphasizes female experiences and presentations in comparison to those of the male persuasion. That might mean women in the production behaving how men stereotypically behave or could just mean that the woman's pleasure or experience is focused on or otherwise not ignored or diminished.
This is an interesting question. A fair amount of feminist porn does involve an exchange of gender roles. There is the film you referenced, Erection Services by Inpulse--in addition, the same studio released Snapshot, a film that concerned a group of male models pleasuring the female photographers and stylists for whom they worked. When I worked for PlaygirlTV, I promoted a number of scenes featuring male strippers, male escorts, etc. More recently, Erika Lust directed Magic Magus and Wicked released Magic Mike XXXL, both of which offered hardcore takes on the male exotic dancer trope. Bellessa released Going For It, in which a female personal trainer helps a male client build the perfect body, then finds that she can't resist him. Anna Span released Be My Boy Toy. Yet looking at the work of Candida Royalle (except for Stud Hunters, about a female studio head searching for hunky male actors), Angie Rowntree, Jennifer Lyon Bell, Inka Winter, and much of Erika's work, etc., they see nuanced, artistically presented productions that deal more with human relationships, featuring strong heroines and elements of romance and emotion, and sometimes fantasy and paranormal themes.
I personally like both of these approaches--one thing I've noticed is that some men in particular are more resistant to the femme porn category that I call Turnabout is Foreplay, which shows the exchange of gender roles. As a promoter of male strippers and films about them, I've been told that I'm exploiting men in the same way that women have been exploited for years, that I'm encouraging women to act like men, that I'm giving men the sexual power that was once the domain of women, etc. So I guess I'm both empowering and exploiting these guys at once? Not sure how I managed that!:) My theory is, feminism is about choice and freedom for everyone. If a man chooses to emphasize his good looks and perform sensually for women, he should have that freedom. If a woman chooses to enjoy that performance and pay him for it, she should have that freedom. But if a couple simply chooses to rent a romantic film and cuddles up to enjoy it, they should have that freedom.
Edited by - TheFeministSexpert on 7/4/2023 8:07:18 AM
Edited by - TheFeministSexpert on 7/4/2023 8:15:56 AM
I once had a chat with an anti-porn feminist of the kind who views are relentlessly reflected in the the media where I live in the UK, not least in the once liberal Guardian. She asserted all straight porn was by its nature sexist and unacceptable. When I asked her about women who liked male strippers, she said she had seen one show and was appalled - both the strippers and the women in the audience were being degraded. She saw it as another sinister machination by the 'sex industry' to expand its reach. 'We are becoming saturated with sex'. She regarded herself as progressive, but I reflected how similar her views were with those of the religious right in the US, people she would otherwise despise.
I've found that very few anti-porn feminist or SWERFS actually harbor negative views towards sex workers themselves. It seems that the majority of their criticism is to the profession itself. I think the majority of them would support the nordic-approach to prostitution where the workers themselves aren't penalized but the actual act of soliciting prostitutes was discouraged. As for your final point about about her views (and other progressives) being similar to those on the religious right I think that perspective is maybe a little reductive.
Progressivism is against using religion as a pre-text to establish laws but it doesn't mean any opinion or conclusion drawn by a religious person is automatically regressive. Personally my view on sex work and porn is similar to that on cigarettes. It should be legal and people should be free to consume it but there should also be space for honest conversations about its negative aspect.
Just my take though. What do I know I'm just some guy online lol.
Interesting view! I would encourage her to watch a documentary called This One's for the Ladies, a featured selection at the South by Southwest and San Francisco Porn festivals. I had the pleasure of interviewing the director, who spent months observing an American male strip troupe and their fans. The troupe developed a close bond with their fans, to the point that--in an effort to help one of the ladies who regularly attended their shows, a school teacher--the guys performed an adults only dance benefit meant to aid children in need. And they rallied behind another audience member who'd lost her brother in a mass shooting. The ladies were a delightful bunch who were moms and wives, single women and career women. The dancers were hardworking artists, construction workers, actors, etc., who used their dance earnings to go to school, build their businesses, and support their elderly parents.
Of course, I don't know if viewing the documentary would change that woman's mind--I've tried to reach out to and communicate with anti-porn feminists, telling them that I, too, am concerned about women in the business and the conditions they must deal with on certain sets. But when I tried to tell them that there are many good people in the business, not to mention good porn, they shut me down.
These days, anti-porn feminists absolutely make sure to clarify they have no issue with sex workers (it would be career suicide to say otherwise), but how can you support sex workers and not shape your position around the complex experiences and wishes of sex workers? When sex workers point out the flaws in anti-porn arguments, or highlight how harmful the nordic model is, the majority of anti-porn feminists double down on their position and call those sex workers "shills" or part of the "pimp lobby." When it comes down to it, I have seen little to no concern or support for sex workers unless those sex workers present themselves as 100% victims of the sex industry.
Just to be clear I'm not arguing that anti-porn feminists are not anti-porn. They are, as the name suggests, against the the industry, its alleged treatment of women within it, and its supposed effect on viewers.
When I say they support sex workers, I mean they support them as human beings or individuals worthy of the same legal protection as non-sex workers (a belief not commonly held by their conservative religious counterparts). Here's how I'd break things down:
Religious Conservative Anti-Porn People: -Don't respect sex workers as people -Don't agree with their opinions on sex work
Feminist Anti-Porn People: +Respect sex workers as people -Don't agree with their opinions on sex work
I've missed you too, GGG. Couldn't agree more with your comments on many anti-porn feminists. They are so patronising to the sex workers whose opinions they dismiss.
Meg from Heidi's site, I'm delighted to hear you promote male strippers and share my high regard for Suze Randall. In fact first developed an interest in the porn biz after reading her autobiography. She's fearless and has such a wicked sense of humour apart from being the best in the business at shooting and staging scenes. Also watched Two Hearts which you mention above, the tape of which I bought years ago as have long admired Gloria Leonard and liked Ona Zee. In general the performers of the Nineties and beyond looked so much better than many of their counterparts from the 'Golden Age'. Quite enjoyed it, but Oh that awful music! Liked a lot of Anna Span's stuff too, but being a MILF fan, Be My Toy Boy in particular.
I agree, Jack, Suze and Gloria are wonderful. I have a funny story about a Suze shoot; she shot my friend Derek for Playgirl, and he really enjoyed working with her. The only problem was that Suze's assistant director was leaning in to get a close up shot, and Derek has a problem maintaining his--um--excitement--if there's a man standing in close proximity. He had to ask the dude to clear out so Suze could assume all duties. LOL!
I love Two Hearts--it was the rare adult film that was both romantic and humorous, and very sexy. The only issue I had was that the male actor pictured on the cover with Racquel Darrian--Danny Celaya/Steve Strong--was one of my favorite Playgirl models, and I was led to believe from the cover art that he was the lead actor in the film. Turns out he was only in a single scene! Still a good movie, though.;)
