I hate this. I think it looks stupid, and I don't think it's hot, and of all the disrespectful things that happen to porn chicks, this one has even less redeeming value than usual.

To each, I suppose. But apart from the whole meanness factor, which is another issue altogether, the bottom line is it just plain looks silly. Just my opinion, but you asked.

Edited by - obibong on 4/1/2004 5:54:59 AM

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jab

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Oh btw, I find this position a HUGE turn off, I saw some stuff like this on Meatholes and it served nothing but the purpose of degrading the girl in a ultimate way but then again I guess it's the girls who choose to do this.

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I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that, yes, it would hurt to have someone step on your head.

Further, I just cannot even imagine why anyone would do this as part of having sex......

Scott Kinney
Diversified Video Associates
www.xxx-imports.com

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Yeah, this foot-to-the-head stuff is a turnoff to me too.

Almost as much as all the spitting that's going on in porn these days.

BSD

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If girls get their heads stepped on and are getting paid for it, maybe they want to and maybe they don't.

Edited by - lindi on 4/1/2004 7:52:02 PM

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My problem with it is the woman's neck is twisted 90 degrees to the side, and the man is applying pressure on her head to keep her this way. It looks plenty uncomfortable, and maybe it could cause some kind of injury.

There's another neck move that I'm starting to see, when the woman and man are in reverse cowgirl, and the man clasps his hands behind the woman's neck and forces her head forward at a sharp angle, while he's pounding away at her. I've seen Michael Stefano do this, and Steve Holmes. This one, it looks like the woman can hardly breath.

Maybe one of the porn actors can comment on the purpose and eroticism of this move. I just wish that they would leave the women's necks alone, and concentrate on other body parts.

Back to Rocco and his feet, I think he has a foot fetish. If he could, I bet we'd see him suck on his own feet, but he's not that flexible, so we get to see the women do the sucking for him. To be fair, he is constantly shoving women's feet into his own mouth.

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Yeah, maybe porn actors are running out of ideas and moves, so they've got to borrow from contact sports. My problem is when I see a 180, 190 lb man doing one of these moves on the neck of a woman who weighs maybe 110, 120 lbs. max. Not exactly an even match.

Do you think some of these porn actors don't realize how much stronger they are than the actresses?

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-T.C.

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From what I remember from high school, wrestlers were one dedicated bunch of athletes, who never stopped training. Plus, they only compete against someone in their weight class. This is what bothers me about seeing stuff like this in a porn scene, where the person doing the move is way bigger than the person on the recieving end of it.

Maybe the porn guys are trying to show how little strength it takes to overpower an actress? Or maybe there should just be a wrestling referee on the sofa/bed/floor with the actor and actress, so he can monitor the action, make sure everything follows all the regulations.

I'm waiting for Skeeter to chime back in with something along the lines of:
A Full Nelson! It's like a cum shot on the neck! It cures depression, it makes deaf mutes sing!

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The one thing I personally don't like about toe sucking is the damage is can cause to the roof of your mouth if your partner's toes nails aren't clipped. I got cut once, and it definitely left a bad taste in my mouth. I no longer toe suck, that's for sure.

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Kami is just too cool for words. You rock girl!!

-Sane today, tommorrow..who knows!!

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there are two purposes for it.

Some girls constantly move up if you don't lock her down like this. Also some girls can't keep their head up while getting fucked in both holes. It is to help her stay in the position.

Steve Holmes

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While one might call this a full nelson, the simple fact is that she was entirely in control of the forces excerted; Newton's 3rd law of motion was very much in effect, the harder she pushed, the harder I pushed back. But that works in reverse as well; anyone who thinks a woman is going to break her own neck in the throws of orgasmic bliss is worrying about something that's not going to happen.

On the other hand, it would very easy for me (or anyone else) to seriously injure another person using the full nelson hold. The danger of the hold (and I presume why it's banned from HS/Col wrestling) is that even after the recipient gives up resisting completely, tremendous force can still be excerted on the neck and shoulders. In a wrestling match between equallly matched opponents, both intend on victory, this could happen quite suddenly; strength can give out quite abruptly.

I suppose this could happen in a sex scene as well; but it seems extremely unlikely. The chance of the abrupt failure of resistance seems remote. I outweight a typical porn starlet by about 70 pounds; by dint of leverage and strength the resistance a 115 pound woman could provide would be virtually inconsiquencial. But unlike a choke hold, in a full nelson I would get A LOT of feedback from the the woman as my application of force increased. First she would say "stop you mutherfucker, you're hurting me." If I continued to apply preasure in the absense of muscular resistance I would feel resistance from connective tissue as joints were pushed beyond their normal range of motion. Presumably this would be accompanied by a lot of catterwailing, and even more caterwailling as these connective tissues failed (anyone who's ever torn a ligament knows what I'm talking about!)

As far as what is or is not okay for a gonzo series, I have no problem with rough sex, spitting, choking, vomiting, or whatever else people what do put on tape. In my "day job" I deal with imagery that is infinitely more disturbing than anything I've ever seen or heard of in a sex tape. It's not about what you show, it's how you show it.

-T.C.

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This may sound like a stupid question, but why does the woman have to keep her head up when she's being DP'ed? From the way this is caught on film anyway, you can hardly see much of her body as it is, so what difference does it make where her head is, as long as it's comfortable for her and she can breath?

When I read a comment like Tony C.'s above, I get concerned about moves like this, whose purpose is to immobilize an opponent, and that the move has to be done with some care to avoid injuring the other person.

A little aside about the man shoving his toe into an actress' mouth - I bet anything that Rocco doesn't bother to trim his toenails before one of these manuevers of his. I bet he doesn't tell a woman that he's going to do this anyway, hell I bet he doesn't plan what he's going to do for a scene, he just does what he wants, when he feels like it.

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When I use a full nelson like embrace on my wife, the purpose is not to turn her, or sap her strength in her struggle to resist, but to create a rigid connection between us so we each have something to push against. Without it, our grinding would result in our becoming uncoupled, rather than driving my penis more deeply into her vagina. That rigid connection also allows her to more precisely "steer" my penis so that it hits the spots she wants to hit.

I lace my finger behind neck because a) it provide a more solid connection (this is also what makes it a powerful wrestling hold) b) it supports her head (more comfortable for her) and keep her from bashing my face with her noggin (I got a fat lip once from one of her orgasmic convulsions.

To hurt someone in a non-wrestling situation with a full nelson would require extraordinary insensisitity to one's parter. I can't imagine ever exerting enough force on someone that I outweighed by 70 pounds that even a sudden and catastrophic failure of their ability to resist would result in injury. As I said, feedback from the person in the hold would tell you you were going to far LONG before any damage was done. Are there people who use this move in rough-sex porn who go to far anyway? You'd have to tell me. Are there people who enjoy this? Perhaps. There's hardly anthing one can imagine that someone somewhere doesn't get off on either doing or watching. (Wasn't there a german guy who consented to being slowly tortured and eaten?)

I will say this: in nearly 15 years in "the scene", I've never encoutered anyone who regarded intentional damage to connective tissue (tendons, ligaments) as a part of rough sex or SM play. I would be extremely sceptical of anyone who offered that a sprained ankle, let alone a sprained neck, was a ligitmate goal, or even a ligitamate risk in scene play. (I have heard of fingers being sprained in fisting encounters.) I'd be far more inclined to regard a person making such claims as a low-grade sexual predator (if they were a 'top'), or sadly damaged career victim (if they were a "bottom".)

-T.C.

Edited by - TonyC on 4/2/2004 11:47:40 AM

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Steve - I'm sorry, but I don't completely understand your reasoning. Putting a girl's neck forward at such an angle IS pretty dangerous. Putting your hands around her shoulders and grabbing her shoulderblade area would be MUCH less dangerous.

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Also, I've come to personally call the position the "True Romance" position. Frankly, because it seems like it's anything but.

\m/\m/
"Rock the hut." Dimebag Darrell

Edited by - EvilBatman on 4/2/2004 3:25:54 PM

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My wife likes very physical sex, not rough sex, not SM; just very physical, muscular sex. If you took snap shot of us, you'd probably end up with some shit that looked every bit as weird as head-stepping (okay, maybe not that weird) But if you thought it was about the particular placement of limbs (like my forearm across the back of her neck when we're doing prone rear-entry) you'd be missing the point altogether.

Weird shit that happens (like hooking her feet on the crook of my elbows, and then using that as an anchor point so I can pull her arms back until her back is so arched I can kiss her) are a byproduct of the passion and abandon that we feel when we're having a good fuck. Sometimes it might even be a short cut (Pavlovian response I suppose.) But it's never an end in and of itself.

That's where most porn leave me absolutely cold. It's not that this crazy shit doesn't turn me on; it's that it's so dissapointing when I see something I know would be hot to do, but somehow the pornographer has failed to make it hot to watch

-T.C.

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When I first met my wife, she was in the habit of hitting the weights about 2 hours a day. No girlie 5 pound curls either; she was benching well over her body weight. I couldn't take her unless I resorted to using 'wrestler's tricks' in spite of the fact that I outweighed her by 60 or 70 pounds (granted, much of that was useless flab.) Now when we battle she goes after my bum shoulder. The bitch is ruthless.

Back to the neck stepping. I think neck stepping could be very hot. The key would be to have one person step on the chick's neck, while someone else nailed her. Extra points if fascist uniforms or jackboots are involved.

But if you try to do the head/neck step thing all yourself you just look silly. More over, you look vulnerable. Anyone familar with the dangers of throwing a high half nelson knows what I'm talking about. (My wife does this all the time and I always get the reverse to a nice tight head and arm. After eight years she still hasn't figured out what she's doing wrong. Don't any of you tell her!)

-T.C.

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Is "Uncle" still the universal safe word for bedroom wrestling?

The Kama Sutra is the ultimate wrestling guide.

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this holding her head up is not dangerous at all. Other than in wrestling I don't put much force in it. It is neither dangerous nor painful. So far no girl ever complaint.

Steve Holmes

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And yeah, Rocco probably doesn't say to every girl he does a scene with, hey, is it okay if I step on your head while I fuck you?

But if you have ever seen Rocco fuck, and then you do a scene with him, you KNOW what you're getting in to.

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The most I done was have a woman hang over a bed frame and perform a partial headstand, or sometimes standing up 69 where I am holding her weight and all the blood is rushing to her head while she gives oral.

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You mentioned that your wife could (can) bench press well over her own weight. I wonder how many 115 lb. porn starlets can do the same. I bet it's not that many, considering how petite and slim most of them are.

Rocco said in an interview recently with a Brussels newspaper that he considers himself to be rather 'cerebral'. Perhaps he was referring to his penchant for stepping on heads, because that's gets you close to a woman's brain, for sure.

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And you're correct. I might be simplifying it too much. I just meant his style is evident. I have, actually, only seen him in a clip from True Anal stories 9 , and in the Fashionistas DVD I bought last month.

Both of which, BTW, were better than I ever thought porn could be considering what I grew up stealing from my father's closet. Although Candy Stripers was decent, if I remember correctly. I'm babbling.

Edited by - valjean4876 on 4/4/2004 1:50:56 AM

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Here is the thread where there was a discussion about Rocco's statement on being 'cerebral' with respect to the women in his films. You'll see there's a variety of opinions expressed about him.

I have to say, out of the 25 or so scenes of his that I've watched, there are some rare occasions where he does ask the actress if everything is okay, sometimes more than once. Twice this was because the actress was shy and inexperienced; for instance, Elizabeth in 'Rocco Invades Poland', and Timea in 'Rocco's Initiations 7'. With this last actress (who was also in Brandon Iron's Bell Bottoms as Alice), Rocco went so far as to ask her in both English and Hungarian if he should stop during the scene. The other time I have seen him show some concern is the last scene in Rocco's Way to Love with Kelly Stafford, who is an experienced actress who likes rough sex. He asked her multiple times if she wanted to stop (because it was getting too rough), and twice she did tell him to stop, which he did immediately.

I'm not certain if Rocco does this out of genuine concern, or because he doesn't want to push the actress too far, have her walk out without finishing the scene, and then he loses the footage that he's already shot. He has hinted that this has happened to him, in a brief interview that he gave to Brandon Iron in the beginning of "I Love it Rough 2". Rocco says something to the effect that you (meaning the director) have to know an actress' limits when performing a rough sex scene, or you can end up finishing the scene by yourself (he says this with a somewhat sheepish look on his face).

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Like I say, The only two things I've seen of Rocco are Fashionistas (100% incredible!) and that outstanding scene from True Anal stories 9 with Svetlana and Suzan I think.

Both scenes blew me away. I don't remember the foot-head thing in TAS 9, but he definitely did it in Fashionistas, and it turned me on every time. I like it much better, and it conveys the same thing , when he is doing them doggy and he sticks his foot NEXT TO their head and they suck on his big toe. That said though, as mentioned somewhere else, the pause for time to let the girls suck his toes while he strokes it is bloody vomit inducing. Well, not literally, but it's gross.

I am still deciding what my favorite kind of porn is, what I accept and what I don't. One thing I'm learning is that my brain doesn't always agree with my penis, but who's fucking does? That's one great thing about porn, it doesn't have to. I hope that makes sense, lol.

However, since I've only been watching for a matter of months, what the hell do I know?

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Some people see topics like this as a black and white issue... I guess I'm just not one of them.

I'm a little late saying this, but welcome to the forum, valjean4876! We're glad to have you here, and I for one am glad to see that I'm not the only one who doesn't have all the answers. :)

Welcome.

Edited by - MLyons on 4/5/2004 2:31:29 PM

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