It's dubbed though

Edited by - vodka tonic on 3/10/2005 4:32:53 AM

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Other than that, it is kinda hard to give recommendations if you don't give some more specific things that you either want to se or want to avoid -- hell, for me it is always hard to give them. European porn is very diverse. I kinda know you well enough (I think) to have some general idea about you like and don't like.

Let's see. Some European features are surprisingly misogynistic, more so than the American counterparts. Italian director Mario Salieri, for instance, has some sort of fetish for subservient females 'forced' into sex acts by 'powerful' and often much older men. Lots of French classics from the early 80s have rape scenes or scenes where women are forced to have sex at the beginning of the scene only to like it at the end.

A recurrent theme in lots of French features, especially by VMD (Video Marc Dorcel), is the sex education of an inexperienced female. This is especially true for the early work of his contract star Laure Sainclair. Most of those also have some of the classier production values, as they often take place in a 'bourgeois' milieu. You might enjoy the 'fine' lingerie and the handsome costumes.

Most of the European features of the last 15 years or so also are a lot 'harder' than American features. Almost all scenes contain anal, facials and so on. Many German features contain pissing and/or fisting -- especially when made by companies like DBM (Dino's Blue Movies -- they have many sublabels) and Videorama (now DVDrama). Other German video companies -- like MMV (Multi Media Verlag), Goldlight, XY Video and more recently Magma (which used to have some pissing and fisting titles in the early 90s, but not so much in recent years) -- stay away from the harder stuff and have more classic features.

Something you might like more, is that many European features, especially French and Italian ones, are porn spoofs of mainstream films. A problem might be that many of them are spoofs of European films you might not be familiar with. Most of them are fairly low budget affairs -- even for porn -- while others are really big budget videos. I tend to prefer the Italian porn parodies over the French.

A director you might be interested in, is John B. Root. He is French. Most of his work is released by VMD. His work is often lighthearted... in a French way -- which is sometimes fun, but at other times irritating... to me at least.
Another one, who works more visually, is Christophe Mourthé who is basically a fetish-glamour photographer. I personally think his video work is greatly overrated and I don't think it will appeal to you either.
Another interesting French director would be Martin Cognito, supposedly a mainstream director who in an anonymous way (hence his alias) did a handful of porn titles for French company Colmax. By no means fun stuff, more the typical French (pseudo) intellectual approach.
Ovidie, a French actress, has directed a couple of 'dark' -- Ovidie is a kinda Goth queen -- titles from a pro-porn or sex positivistic femeninist viewpoint -- her words, not mine. She claims to be influenced by some American pro-porn feminists such as Annie Sprinkle. Apart from a couple of features -- maybe you could check out Lilith -- she has also recently directed a three part sex education video. I haven't seen them, so I can't tell if they are good.
For more classic approaches the best bet in France would be the better stuff from Video Marc Dorcel from the mid 90s onwards -- I recommend Les nuits de la présidente , Le parfum de Mathilde , Citizen Shane , La princesse et la pute . Most if not all of these should be distributed in the USA by Wicked. Two other studios which have bigger budget titles are Colmax and Blue One. You might be interested in some of their work as well.

In Italy, the most appealing stuff in my view is made by director Steve Morelli. I am sure that Lee O will have more to say about his work. It is very classic and very basic, but enjoyable nonetheless.
Silvio Bandinelli's work kinda resembles Morelli's, except that Bandinelli is often more heavby handed and often introduces a politcal background to his tories, which may mean very little outside of Italy and which often makes his work prententious.
I would stay away from most of the work done by Joe D'Amato. Mario Salieri is another acquired taste, as noted before. He has a typical visual signature, which is very different than what you are used to from American features. Luca Damiano is another big name in Italy. I don't think you like him either. And remember, most Italian porn is dubbed, even the Italian versions.

In Germany, some decent work is done by MMV, although I don't believe they are making much of anything lately. Magma has some nice recent contract stars -- Tyra Misoux comes to mind. On the whole, the German market is dominated by other kinds of porn, besides features. I don't think any of them would interest you much -- GGG, I don't think so.
The best bet for German stuff you would like, is probably the classics from the 70s and 80s, some of which were directed by Hans Billian. Some of them were so highly regarded that they even became classics in the US as well -- Sensational Janine comes to mind (no, it is not about Janine Lindemulder, but about an in literauture well known Viennese prostitute called Josefine Mutzenbacher, which is also the original German title: Josefine Mutzenbacher ... wie sie wirklich war 1. Teil )

Spain has some interesting directors, such as Conrad Son, Narcis Bosch and some younger ones. They often have a pop/cult feel, mixing violence and fantasy settings with their sex scenes. Heavy MTV influence in many of their videos, with vibrant colors and lots of editing and 'flashy' camera work. Lots of vampires too. Don't know why exactly.

Scandinavia. There is the 'Lars Von Trier' work you are familiar with. At this point, I have only seen Constance and Pink Prison , which were both major disappointments.
Another director that might interest you is Mike Beck, from Sweden. He often spends lots of time on classic storytelling and often has really high production values. Some of them are spy/adventure/thriller spoofs, others are comedies. In the latter category, Ridskolan seemed not too bad -- I have recorded it from TV, but I haven't seen it yet.

OK, I would say that is more then enough already. One last thing, if you are interested in finding out more about any specific title, I would visit the EGAFD, the European Girls Adult Film Database. You cannot only find information there about specific titles, but you can also ask for more specific information on titles you might be interested in in their forum.



Hardware said:
"I don't understand it. We're under flash flood watch all day but Cytherea's nowhere to be found."

Edited by - Walter Burns on 3/10/2005 11:15:20 AM

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There are some general differences between European and American features that might be worth mentioning . For starters European flicks are nearly all shot on video these days (no Vivid or Wicked 'look') which might be a little jarring for some American viewers ( Tony I'm thinking of you ); 2) . And since there's very little gonzo or all sex made across Europe (from what I can tell) most of the market is made up of features . That doesn't mean more money though , so there are far more cheep and cheesy story based flicks to pick through making it more difficult to find something of real quality , to begin with .

From what I've seen you're not gonna find anything with English as the undubbed language on anything produced outside England - and possibly some newer Private releases . The rest , as Walter said , are generally dubbed even for their home country ! With a Hungarian actress , German Actor , Italian director , and an English camera man things must be a real nightmare to coordinate . And that's not even thinking about all the other crew ! Yikes ! The good news is that some of the dubs are not too shabby - Marc Dorcel (VMD) and Colmax are among the best .

Agree with everything Walter posted about Italian porn , though I prefer Bandinelli to Morelli . But they're are pretty similar - think Brad Armstrong and Michael Raven - and have a similar level of success . Mario Salieri (and his woman Nicki Ranieri) : avoid like the plague unless you're not into attractive looking men ! He has some of the least attractive male performers getting it on with the best looking women - all part of his degradation drive I guess . Great outfits , the best stories and acting on a consistent basis in porn - for my opinion - but he's not exactly all joy and light . The political bent gets tiresome as well , and he's not about to move his camera once he's got it set up , is he . Almost like a photographer who composes the perfectly lit scene then can't bare to shift in case he breaks the spell . His stuff annoys me as much as it impresses me . If that makes any kind of sense .

English porn is really not set up for features , so you're probably best not wasting time looking there . For the most part amateur and amateur look is the norm over here . Readers wives is more popular than Penthouse . Viv Thomas has shot a few features - for his own studio - but they're mostly g/g which is his forte (and passion ?) . Cracking stuff : if you like faux lesbo sex . He has shot some simple vignette series that might appeal to you . Busty Suckers for instance is one I've seen and enjoyed , and posted some vid caps here . Good looking performers of both sexes , above average but simple set ups , and enjoyable sex .

Walter , you mentioned Colmax and Blue One having some of the highest quality porn but aren't many of their features bought from other places ? In fact I'm not sure Colmax have ever produced anything original . Is that right ? Blue One have a director working for them that I'm surprised you didn't mention - Alain Payet - who also directs for Marc Dorcel . He's probably one of Europe's top 5 directors for me .

Blondie , could you say what exactly you're interested in ? Both so people can give better suggestions but also just because , frankly , it interests me . Are you first and foremost after hot looking guys ? Do they have to fit a certain personality type - fun loving , dominant alpha , mysterious loner , etc ... ? How important are high production values ? Do you prefer more or less plot ? Are shorter (say 3 mins) sex scenes gonna get on your tits ? Those sorts of things .

Some good looking European men who perform(ed) in hard core - Hakan Serbs , Ferenc (Frank Gun) , Sebastian Barrio , David Perry , Andrew Youngman , Jolth Walton , and one I can't remember . Damn , it's right on the tip of my brain !

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The best might be the Swede Walter mentioned, Mike Beck.
Ridskolan and Lustgården were quite enjoyable because of some hot chicks.
Their silly plots were so-so.
But apart from one guy (or was it two) the fellas ranged from passable to 'next please'.
Scandinavian porn studs don't usually look like Julian, if that's what you're after.

Personally I haven't been too impressed with Mike Beck's other offerings, but they're generally considerably better than what the other Swedish outfits put out, and as I haven't seen that many of his, he may have some other good ones out.

Danish porn is best avoided.
I've written of my poor opinion of Zentropa's titles before.
IIRC, all the other Danish produced porn has been really crap.
A few smokin' girls for sure, but the lads are bottom of the barrel, and the production values would have to be tripled to include a Yellow Sofa (TM).

I don't think I've ever seen any Norwegian or Finnish produced porn. Has anyone else?
Apart from Dina Jewel, I think all the Norwegian and Finnish porn starlets I've seen were in Swedish productions.

In fact the only specific continental European produced titles I've seen, that I could recommend, would be the German features Ein Sommertagstraum and Hotel Fickmichgut from Magma which I've mini-reviewed elsewhere in the forum, and if you're not picky about the male looks, the aforementioned Ridskolan and Lustgården .

As for other German, French, and Italian porn, I'm reading the others' suggestions with interest, as I can't help but think I must've been extremely unlucky in my picks.

So far, apart from a couple of French softcore movies featuring the lovely Maud Kennedy, they've all been dubbed shite, featuring bloody awful looking guys and (albeit lovely looking) robochicks.

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This is all fascinating though. Thanks all, for your thoughts!

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Dorcel is one of my personal favourites, I can highly recommend it. And I like the way they do some of their internation editions: the menu has 20 languages to choose from and they all go to a text telling you that there is no dialogue in this movie, so don't worry!

British porn: there are a few studios that make features. Relish among them, they have decent production values, usually their features have a humorous storyline.
Cathy Barry makes some features, usually cheezy like Cathula, but not all bad.

If you like classics, get the original Herzog versions of the Josefine Mutzenbacher series, not the badly cut Sensational Janine ones sold in the US (why they changed all the names and re-edited them is beyond me), especially the first three are very good.

Private of course makes many features, but have been slacking a bit lately, all though I liked the Millionaire films. There last pictures are luckily not all dubbed anymore.

Jacco

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As for what I'm looking for, I'm not really sure yet..maybe a sense of fun? The guys don't have to look like Julian, but it sounds as if male attractiveness is not a high priority anywhere, LOL.

I guess the dubbing is unavoidable, which isn't so bad during the dialogue, but I remember watching something (I think from Private) and even the sex sounds were dubbed, which had me rolling on the floor with laughter, though it was not meant to be a comedy ;)

No need to worry about hijacking the thread Mike, I left my inquiry vague in order to open up the discussion to anyone who is interested in 'foreign' films (and I realize that some aren't foreign to you at all, but didn't know how else to word the topic).

Unfortunately I have to get back to work now, but do look forward to more discussion! Thanks again.

@Kperv, I actually love it that you loathe von Trier and his partners-in-crime ;) and would enjoy more discussion on that topic too. For instance, are Danish taxpayers subsidizing their porn projects as well?

Sorry if that is a sore subject ;)

Edited by - dumblonde on 3/11/2005 7:04:00 PM

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A forgotten name till now, is Michel Ricaud, the man who really defined the VMD style in the late 80s - eraly 90s, till his death in 1993.

I don't know what this thread should cover. I initially reacted to a specific question from DB about features. European porn is lots more than features and lots of features which I don't think will appeal much to DB have also been left out. In the end, the field of the topic is enormous to cover, way too big for a single thread or post.



cv said:
"I can pretty much tell when I'm watching something rated G or X but everything else is just a big blur."

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See, the often mentioned Mario Salieri and Joe D´Amato. Seems most of those who already posted in this thread seem to dislike (to say the least) these two directors. Good news for those who hate D´Amato: He hasn´t made any films in years (but that is because he is dead).
I liked most of his films, because he had a very unique approach to filming. As he often mentioned in interviews and statements, D´Amato was not in the biz for big profits (actually rather the opposite was true: For some of his films he paid more money than he got back in the end), but for making "his" kind of movies. Which used to be very often films that took place in the past, like in the age of knights and maidens, like in ages when pirates sailed the seven seas, and so on. Always with a sharp eye for the detail (like costumes, uniforms - hell, once he even managed to get one of this real old sailing boats back to the seas) and with the heart of a B-movie director.
Mario Salieri on the other hand has a rather dark and voyeuristic approach to the sex scenes. Very often you see the starting sex scene from a position that would best be described as a "keyhole perspective".
I agree to what most other people have already said: You either love or hate these directors, respective their films. Me? I love them. Well, not the directors, but their films. But hey, I´m known as a weird person anyway....

Another point that has already been mentioned by Walter is the late 80´s/early-to-mid 90´s stuff by German companies like DBM, Magma and Videorama (which, btw, is still the name of the company, at least as far as videos are concerned; DVD-Rama is the brand they use for their DVDs - such as they used CD-Rama for their CDs).
Back at that time, forementioned companies still used to produce films themselves on regular basis (like at least one new production per month). Classical Videorama stuff can be found under their lines "Maximum Perversum" and "Teeny Exzesse". Since these were produced for the german market, they are not dubbed (which means you either understand German, or you may not get the - often very funny - dialogues). Lots of these old titles were re-released as DVD in the last couple of months, and at least in local shops and stores they were sold at very reasonable prices. Classical DBM stuff you can also find in their line "DBM-Classics". So far, some 20 DVDs under that line are available; I especially like the fact that each of these discs features 2 of their old films.

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Incidentally , Viv Thomas recently tried the opposite approach in his flick "Confessions of a Make-up Artist" , where he had the women talking in their original language with subs over the top . Worked well I thought .

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heres a pretty little collage ... <a href=http://img2.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc277&image=8a5_garcon.jpg target=_blank heres a pretty little collage ... <a href=http://img2.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc277&image=8a5_garcon.jpg target=_blank here's a pretty little collage ... <a href='http://img2.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc277&image=8a5_garcon.jpg' target=_blank

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I have seen pictures of the boat in question (if it is that one at all). It's not a complete boat at all, just a piece of it that was erected somewhere on a set. Maybe it was a left-over from a mainstream production. This boat was used in the pirate film he did with Selen.




BigFerret said:
"It's good to see pornographic film titles advertised on major thoroughfares."

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my 2 cents:

The top brands were mentioned, but - with exception from Private, which you are familiar with - I would explore VMD, Colmax, von Triers Zentropa/Pussy Power and Goldlight.

When various Italian productions are mentioned for "misogyny", I have to say that I can "tolerate" the "misogyny" there much easier, than in German labels like Magma, MMV and DBM.

A caveat to Goldlight, because at least when they had the old cover design, subtitles in languages mentioned on the cover were not available on the DVD.
AFAICS the subtitles stated on the cover of the DVDs of newer production.

As spanish productions have been mentioned, AFAICS IFG seems to be worth a look.
I myself would like to see more of IFG productions, since they are not in the rental stores here. Some of their titles are carried by Colmax AFAIR.

And as Walter said, check out the EGAFD, since you could end up with 3 DVDs containing the same movie.

Goldlight often "overlaps" with Italian distributors, and Colmax "overlaps" with productions of basically all of Europe.

Attractive male performers:
+1 Zenza Raggi
Alberto Ray should also be mentioned.

Since I couldn't watch much movies in the last months, I don't know if EVS/AlexD have released a feature yet.
But I am definitely looking forward for a movie of this label.

some links to websites of European feature distributors/producers

edit: you asked for specific examples.

I always liked "Baron of Darkness" (Part1+2).
Sure "it is only porn", but it isn't too far away from what you get in Italian horror movies in regard to production value.
And as Walter Burns said: The AFAIK 3 movies of Martin Cognito are a must. I also kind of like Ovidie.

edit:
Mourthe is kind of a french Andrew Blake. So it can't really be called feature.
As far as I can recall Mike Beck is also more on artcore, but maybe I am confusing something here.
If you go artcore, also check out AlexD, which is often more "vignette" - style than Andrew Blake.
It is BDSM orientated, but it contains sex scenes and it is not the usual BDSM-flick, which is shot in a dirty basement.
And the BDSM-content is not too strong, IMHO.

Edited by - Zartyr on 3/11/2005 6:22:38 PM

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I don't know how I missed Zenza Raggi before GaySatyr snatched him up, but yeah, he looks hot. And according to gbg32: "he's funny & he fucks like a wild beast from the flaming pits of hades!!!!"

I also found his pic on the site Walter linked to:

Despite its mixed reviews, I do want to check out "Pink Prison" first, I think. Vodka Tonic and I are often on the same page, if ya know what I mean ;)

I'd also like to order from stores that help support ADT whenever possible, so was happy to find it at Orgazmik, along with a few screenshots and a couple of short reviews. (I see that Alberto Rey is in it... I hope that he didn't cause any problems on the set)

But here's another dilemma - I can only find it in the dubbed French language, which is okay, but I'd be better off getting the Danish version. Unfortunately I can't find it in any Danish store that ships to the US, and even Orgazmik says "Availability - Delivery problems at distributor"

Great info and suggestions so far though, keep 'em coming.

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I know nothing of them, so it's not an endorsement, but putting their phone number and address on the site is usually not a bad sign.
By international webshop standards they aren't cheap.

As I've mentioned in another thread recently, Katja herself wasn't too keen on those movies. Compared to her American made movies, these were made by and with a director and crew with little porn experience and performers with wood problems.

@DB: I haven't been able to sniff out any info on whether Zentropa's porn got state funding or not. They probably didn't directly, but all the money that's been sunk into other Zentropa productions must have helped free up cash for the porn titles too.
Any more on this should probably go into another thread.

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As DB asked for movies:

From the Italian/Goldlight side, I would watch "Baron of Darkness" (the "story" was better than in "Millionaire", BoD is also from Bellochio/del Mar) as mentioned before.
"Divina" from Salieri should most probably also be in a canon of Euro-porn features.

The french side:
I am too lazy to dig out the producers/distributors, but most of them should be from Colmax or VMD.

"Harcelment au feminine"
"Reves de Cuir" (or was this an original Wicked production?)
and of course Michel Ricaud's "Regarde-moi".

I also like the approach of Cognito and Ovidie.
And a much more personal preference is "L'affaire Katsumi", because of Sandra Russo's performance.
If you define the quality of feature porn that it is good if you remember non-sex scenes.
I remember a scene where Sandra Russo is at a quai and lits a cigarette.

Spanish:
"Gothix", but it isn't really a feature.
I remember a two part feature called Galaxa, Galaxina or something. Nothing to mention, but funny as hell in a strange way.

Leaving the feature side:
I have seen IIRC three movies of Mourthe.
Amazonesex is the only title I remember (I even bought the DVD, instead of renting).
But it focuses on the women (Katsumi, Olivia del Rio, Lisa Crawford lead cast) and I have a fetish for "chicks in chainmail" and DnD-fantasy clothing.

German:
I am really no expert in it.
But Magma or MMV cooperates with VMD or Colmax and they sometimes hire Alain Payet. So it should be also available at VMD/Colmax.
"Die 8. Sünde" ("The 8th Sin" as international title? check IMDB) was highly acclaimed. IMHO it was at the level of an average Private movie.

Than there is a "Faust" Movie from Germany which is rather good (but maybe this was also a German-French coproduction).

I would check out for smaller German producers.
But they are often more on the fetish/BDSM side and vignette Artcore style. Start with Erosmedia (I think Katja Kassin is involved with them) AlexD, EVS if you want to avoid crap.

Also the features of the big German companies often don't deserve their classification.
IMHO there is not much difference to an PXP or GGG when it comes to the story.
It is a rare event to find a German feature (Goldlight an exception, but AFAICS they seldom produce, but use Italian and French productions) which has more story than say a Kovi from Private's Fetish Machine.
But maybe I should start to watch more German movies, because I never liked 'em that much, my experience with them is rather small.
In the nineties one had to endure silicone-bimbos, excuse the derogatory term, and now they sell mechanical in-and-out gonzos as features.

Reading this rant, I think I'm getting old.

Edited:
I forgot I wanted to mention an actor who was not mentioned in this thread.

Zenza Raggi and Alberto Rey are a sure winner, when watching porn with women.
But some fall for this guy:
HPG 1,2

Edited by - Zartyr on 3/12/2005 9:49:24 PM

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Edited: If you like Regarde moi , Leroi also made a (fake?) documentary on the making of it, called Focus . I haven't seen it yet, but I do have it on DVD somewhere, recorded from Canal +.

Edited by - Walter Burns on 3/13/2005 7:07:51 PM

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I just received this email which I think says that it shipped out today? If so, that's quick service!

Hermed fremsendes den stregkode for din pakke, som dags dato er blevet afsendt til dig.

It's also interesting how different the same movie can look:

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The main thing is, I'm looking for something that is shot more from a female's perspective, with erotic emphasis on the man. At this point I don't necessarily count porn inexperience as a negative, but I'll report back with a mini-review.

As for Lars, I can't say that I like everything he's done.. I thought The Idiots was well-named, and Riget made me ill, but Breaking The Waves and Dogville just blew me away.

It's funny.. I have a friend who can't stand his movies because she thinks that he hates females, since many of the women are just brutalized and tortured. I don't think he does, since their porn takes an entirely different approach. From what I understand, he believes some porn has the ability to dehumanize and encourage violence against women, and therefore wants no part of that kind, and I respect him for it.

Perhaps when "All About Anna" is released, porn valley will shoot "All About Money", and as long as the latter has a few popular robo-teens and the usual checklist of acronyms, the 1 or 2-day shoot will probably outsell the former by far.

I know how you feel about state funding for the arts, and I'm still of two minds about that myself. Porn is a business, but I think people are more willing to try new approaches, and creativity and variety have a better chance to blossom when the 'bottom line' isn't the overriding factor.

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See, now you made me go way off-topic. I guess I really would have made an awful moderator after all.
BTW, next time you go recrouting for mods, it might help if you didn't surround your encouragements with quite so many smilies.

BTW, does your DVD player and TV support 50Hz signals, or will the player have to convert it to 60Hz?

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one

two

and three.

I'm tempted to pick these up.

SDC

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Jacco

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I've only watched the first 30 minutes or so, but so far I like it. Not that it doesn't have some of the problems indicated, but it's quite different from what I'm used to.

Already it's had a gay scene that arthur might enjoy, and interestingly, two 'sex with bondage' scenes. I wonder if that's why it's not readily available in the US? Not that they were bad (although the guy strapped to the table ...well, more on that later ;)

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Edited by - juha on 3/24/2005 6:02:41 PM

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