With the Darren James fiasco currently hitting porn many are suggesting MANDATORY condom use. What's the point then? I would quit watching porn alltogether if this were the case. I think a better course of action would be to step up the testing and quarentime people coming in from other countries. Also, GET RID OF ANAL SCENES! It's MUCH easier for both parties to contract HIV via anal sex than ANY other kind of sex. Just a thought.
Unlike you, I don't pretend to know all the answers, but I'll tell you what, I'd rather people like you stop watching porn than have the performers in the industry be denied informed choices about how to protect themselves.
I'm not the biggest fan of condoms in porn either, but I AM a big fan of the performer's health. I've always maintained if that's what it takes, that's what it takes. I can easily look past them. Is the higher risk of contraction through anal sex claim really true? I'm not saying it isn't, but I haven't heard this. What's your source?
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I urge the industry to make informed choices. If condoms is the answer, then so be it. If new standards and procedures for testing is the answer, great. I expect that ultimately it will a combination of solutions, and I hope the industry gets through this with minimal damage.
Like I said, I really don't know the answers, but I hate to see the self-centered demands of the porn audience dictate what the best choices are when it comes to matters of life and death such as these.
No offense to you, whoremonger, but I feel very strongly about this--for whatever my opinion is worth.
I don't know of many people who like watching sex with condoms but if it is a choice of a performer's health or a mild distraction to me....I go with a person's health any day of the week. Hot sex is hot sex with or without a piece of latex.
Max Booty "She smells like angels ought to smell." Frank Miller, Sin City
I'll be one to say use condoms when you don't know the health of your partner :in porn, in life. Condoms in porn never bothered me, I remember Shanes World, in the early parts of the series, it was condoms always, and I still enjoyed the porn. I've seen a recent Shanes World Campus Invasion, and there were condoms used then also. But by all means don't get rid of anal!
They will never get rid of anal. Anal sells dvds like nothing else. Just look at all the anal titles. Changes like condom use will probably be made for a while,but anal isn't going anywhere.
I personally won't buy condom-only movies, I just can't watch it but I also don't think condoms during sex is the answer because you would also have to use condoms for the blowjobs and also you can't eat pussy because those two acts can also be dangerous, not to mention all creampie action are over and also facials/swallowing. Take all that away and what's left?
I don't know; I maintain that there still might be some pretty good stuff left, actually.....
I'm not saying that that's what I WANT to happen, mind you. Not by a long shot! And I certainly don't want to be reactionary, but I'm also not quite prepared to write off porn entirely because condoms are used, or even because no one does facials or swallows cum anymore...
Maybe I'm in the minority there, but at a certain point it's not up to us to decide the best course of action. It's only up to us to decide what we will and won't watch.
I just want the people who are actually at risk to be informed when they make their choices. It's the best I can hope for.
I don't think you are in the minority at all. When you come right down to it, it is the only course of action we as consumers have. If this thing spreads out and if, for the safety of the performers, condoms become the rule and not the exception for a certain amount of time...consumers are going to have to make a choice. Are they going to place their own selfish needs....and let's be clear, masturbation is a selfish act....ahead of the safety and well being of the performers while chosing to not buy porn that features latex or are they going to ride this thing out and get over a fairly minor part of the videotaped sex act.
I like my balls-to-the-wall gonzo porn as much as most others in this forum and the last thing I want is for condoms to take over. The no condoms aspect of most porn is sadly an additional fantasy element in this post-HIV world but if the real world intrudes into the fantasy world, as it has here...well, I'm pragmatic enough to understand that some things will probably have to change. Still, it all boils down to need and am I willing to sacrifice an element of the fantasy knowing that the person I'm watching having sex knows that he/she has a certain level of protection. Or do I want to stomp & whine about how I'm not getting exactly what I want to see.
Max Booty "She smells like angels ought to smell." Frank Miller, Sin City
no anal is not the problem. The problem is that in this case one person wasn't responsible and his actions are having consequences that affect an entire industry.
Max Booty "She smells like angels ought to smell." Frank Miller, Sin City
Companies like VCA, Vivid and Wicked having an all condom policy won't hurt thier bottom line because it's already in place. But companies like Anabolic/Diabolic, Evil Angel, Red Light District, PXP are going to suffer greatly, their customers don't like seeing condoms in their porn. Maybe I'm wrong but that's the impression I get. Remember Extreme Associates? When they first started getting big they were pushing and advertising the fact that they don't use condoms in their movies, and it worked well for them. I don't know of any successfiul gonzo company out there that has an all condom policy, because they don't exist. The people that rent and buy gonzo don't want to see condoms.
Anal is indeed part of the problem -- anal with oversized dicks, double anal, triple anal, all the stunts raincoaters adore, rip girl's assholes right open, thereby allowing a direct gateway to infection with the HIV virus -- and girls with bloody assholes can give it to guys fucking them the next day, especially if that guy's dick is sore.
The insane and childish (Freud, anyone?) emphasis on anal is indeed exactly the cause of this current problem .
My source is a documentary I saw on the discovery health channel about a year ago on STDs. You are more likely to get torn and ruptured membranes during anal sex making disease transmission more likely. You are correct in that the performers health comes first but that should be up to the performer, not the industry, to decide on whether to use condoms. The industry may not die if it goes to mandatory condoms but I'm willing to bet it'll take a huge hit. I for one will only watch older, condomless porn. Is it selfish? Probably, but that's how it is.
You are not here in the industry. Darren James was a very responsible guy, compared to a great deal of the talent. Similar and greater acts of irresponsibility go on all the time --- this time, somebody's number was up.
Don't run down someone when you have no first-hand real knowledge of what goes on in this industry.
DAC, it's been said that Darren James did non-condom scenes in Brazil this past March. Condoms are mandated by law when shooting in Brazil. Darren, TT Boy, and possibly others were irresponsible.
Nope I'm not in the industry and no I don't know Darren James. Never claimed to either but at the end of the day he clearly wasn't responsible enough, was he? I would hope that he had no knowledge of his medical condition when he worked with all those girls and have no where implied that he did. I understand the need to circle the wagons in a case like this but if you have bothered to read what I've written the past two days you will find me totally sympathetic to the performers in your industry. This is a time for leadership on the industry's part. One person's actions have directly impacted a lot of people and indirectly impacted many others like consumers such as myself. Those are the facts. All I want is what I always want, for people to live safely, with dignity & with accountability.
Max Booty "She smells like angels ought to smell." Frank Miller, Sin City
I wonder which, over the past 10 years, has taken more porn star lives - road traffic accidents or AIDS? I suspect its the former. So do we stop porn stars from driving? I agree absolutely that the health of the performers comes first but we should keep perspective until we know the full extent of the problem. And if condoms are the only answer - and not more regular checks (2 weeks) - then condoms it must be.
My guess and prayer is that nobody else will have been infected. As for the future, if its no condoms, no facials, no cum swallowing, no creampies, and no gangbands, I, for one, will be spending the next five years exploring the huge back catalogue of porn I have not seen. That, and soft core.
Well said F5. Anal isn't the issue here, it's responsibilty, or the lack of. Either way the situation is unfortunate, and the list at Aim is growing well beyond what I expected. More than 30 1st and 2nd gennerations stars are listed.
Let this be a lesson to all of us in every area of our live. BE RESPONSIBLE! Our collective actions all effect each other!
Yeah,,,you're on crack if you think I'm watching porn with condoms. I'll watch porn from other countries or underground shit. Sad to be real but, Why is everyone so shocked that porn stars caught HIV??!!
This points out flaws in AIM's testing. Yeah, test every month and possibly infect people if your viral load is rising at the end of the month cycle. Too much of a gamble.
I look at porn stars like I look at our nations military. They take risks I wouldn't take for the sake of the freedoms I enjoy!
The solution is complete Nazi'ism in regards to testing. Test constantly and give tremendous penalties for performing positive. No filming outside the country, then increase the price to the consumer $50 per dvd for ATOGM and DAP's and all that shit. Now let's see how much people care about the health of others, or if these same so called humanitarians start buying brazilian porn on the internet for $10 per dvd.
What's the comparison? Porn stars have sex for a living, so some regulation of sex safety is in order. Race car drivers and bus drivers drive cars for a living, so how they drive is regulated.
We don't specifically regulate how bus drivers have sex or how porn stars drive.
No sexual act is dangerous as long as the performers are clean and they should focus on that like how do we make sure the performers are 100% clean. Companies like Red Light District and Evasive Angles should not shoot condom-free scenes in Brazil in the first place, that's the problem not double-anal scenes or anal creampie scenes.
Understood, but how do you account for a performer's personal life? Porn star X could hook up unknowingly off camera with someone who has HIV and then resume filming scenes a few days later.
I think it's the duty of pornstars to make sure they don't take any risk in their private life also because their job demands for it because it's not their life they're playing with but also of that of all the peformers working in the industry.
I am all for taking strong steps to protect the safety and health of porn performers. This includes better, increased and more frequent testing, industry wide standards of production and conduct, severe fines and penalties for violations, even a porn actors union, if that will help.
But to dilute the end product in an attempt to make the experience AS SAFE AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE for the actors, will drive me as a porn consumer away. Now I certainly don't mean that porn actors and actresses need to foolishlly or wantonly risk death for my entertainment. But just as my other entertainment passions, American professional football and ice hockey have a certain amount of inherent danger and physical occupational hazards that if removed in the interest of player safety would weaken their appeal, so it's the same with porn. At least for me.
I have been looking for a reason to kick my porn habit. But the girls are so beautiful, the scenes are so hot and the porn is so much better in this day and age, that I am probably a certified porn junkie with no hope for reform.
Condoms in my porn, the cessation of hetero anal sex, or the removal of facials and oral cumshots in porn would do the trick for me. I would be gone in a heartbeat. Probably do my wallet a whole lot of good.
This is not indicative of my stance on wanting the most for performer health and safety, just a consumer choice, nothing more, nothing less.
I think most of us want whats best for the performers, and I for one agree with Mlyons, that whatever it takes it takes, but let informed and individual choices be made, however, does a situation like this potentially bring us closer to Big Brother stepping in and telling us what is allowed and not allowed on the warrants of health in the industry? I don't know, I'm not asking and answering the question here, just bringing up a possiblitiy.
Let's face it, The current regime in the US, has been looking to kill porn for quite a while, and this fiasco could open a door for them to take a step towards atleast tighter control.
My point is, if your really a fan of porn, now is not the time to be supporting a knee jerk reaction resolution to cure this problem of potential HIV infection. Anal with little women and big dicks is probably a bit risky, as is anal sex in general, but it is far from being an inarguable fact, that getting rid of anal will resolve the problem. Simply it is not a well thought out or warranted solution.
This is only discussion, and that is great, but we need to be reasonable about this situation. Everyone is scared now, but it will get resolved, if everyone just takes some time, and all the testing gets done, and some time is spent to closely find some better solutions and testing, very little at all may need to change in porn production.
I'm not trying to start a war here, just trying to be reasonable. I just think this is a bit of a tricky time where actions by the industry are gonna be paid attention to by it's fans and especially the government, and having it's fans and close supporters call for radical changes and panicky solutions, will only hurt at this point in time.
As far as the industry itself goes, as has been said, far to many sales are directly associated to anal themed titles, there is absolutely no chance of anal sex vids stopping, and as I said above, there is no reason for it.
You're comparing apples to oranges here. People who hook up in bars do so with a person who's usually a stranger and hasen't been tested for HIV. To have sex with someone in this manner without a condom is akin to playing russian roulette. Porn stars at least have an idea of who their partner is and supposedly they have been tested.
I posted this in another thread that got locked as I was posting.. Here are my thoughts (I agree with the OP entirely!!)
From other thread :
> "He did do tons anal & dps on film. "
And that's the scariest part.
Everyone knows I *hate* anal based upon my previous posts, and finding films without the disgusting act is near impossible nowdays (unless I want entirely sexless videos entirely)...
However I think this industry as well as all of the anal/dp/a2m/circus act lovers have to wake up and realize that this is one of the EASIEST ways to transmit this virus and perhaps it's time to go back to good old fashioned sex and then produce GOOD films based on that, all at the same time significantly reducing risks for the performers.
I for one would love to buy good well done all vaginal sex films done in the genere of the best of the ones out of the 80's. (Like Alex DeRenzy's "The Big Thrill" [hetero one not the gay one by the same name]) rather than the garbage that is being shoveled out there now with anal, a2m, gaping, choking, abuse, etc... And know the actresses are treated like human beings and not trash.
[Link]
Artold Liehf Deactivated - Same Person as Nun Porn
27 Posts 4/04
Posted - Apr 16 2004 : 8:56PM
Whoremonger,
I think that Hardball was trying to make the same point that you did.
Just because he did a lot of anal and dp scenes doesn't necessarily mean that the problem would have been avoided if he had not. There are many other ways to contract HIV.
I am not sure what you have against anal scenes and why you find them disgusting, but it seems foolish to attempt to suggest that they are the sole culprit.
Yes, is impossible. And beside the hiv matter, i think it's almost impossible to find no-anal gonzo movies, and, even worse, impossible to find any kind of porn movie with missionary intercourse, wtf, is my favorite position, and is never filmed in porn movies. From being the classic-position is going to be a fetish?
Please, start a line of movie with missionary only fucking scenes, it could be called "Missionary impossible" :)
Can someone explain to me how it's easier to get HIV through anal sex than vaginal? I guess I must be very misinformed because I thought once a guy with HIV has sex with a wom an vaginally without a condom, there was a 100% chance of contracting it. Is that true?
Let me spell out what should be a no-brainer -- nature designed the vagina to be penetrated by a cock so conception can occur. Nature designed the anus to expell waste matter. When you put something large up an anus, you are dealing with very soft tissue in the colon that is easily damaged and torn. That's why people tend to scream and yelp when you put something up their ass. If you are creating tears and fissures in the membrane, you are creating a perfect portal into somebody's system by which the virus will enter. Understand?
Can someone explain to me how it's easier to get HIV through anal sex than vaginal? I guess I must be very misinformed because I thought once a guy with HIV has sex with a wom an vaginally without a condom, there was a 100% chance of contracting it. Is that true? [/quote]
[Link]
Pocketcomb_Pimp Deactivated User
1921 Posts 7/03
Posted - Apr 17 2004 : 11:14AM
HIV get's into your blood system, and in most cases their are traces of blood in your stool. Botton line, more germs, virus's and infection are in your anus. No matter how much you clean it, it will still get dirty during sex. I don't know any men that would drop thier dick in shit, but most of us do women anally.
You need to be careful, and have a partner that not only enjoys it, but know how to prepare for it in every form or fashion.
[Link]
jewel denyle Platinum X Pictures
769 Posts 4/03
Posted - Apr 17 2004 : 5:35PM
We at PXP are not going to use condom's in any of our movies or stop anal. We will not have anyone going to Brazil to shoot under any circumstances or any other third world country for that matter. We will only shoot in the USA,Canada and Europe where the testing is accurate. I will not let anyone shoot at my company with any party that has shot scenes in any countries other then the ones I've listed. I do think anyone going to these high risk places to shoot will be quarantined for sure now that this has happened.
Unless this quarantine does come about, I don't see that you've accomplished much. Yes, you won't have any first generation exposures working for you, but that doesn't stop Jack from going down the street and doing an anal with Jill for Company B, then Jill doing an anal for you the next week.
When you say you're not going to use condoms, am I to interpret that as you're not going to require condoms, or that you won't hire performers who wish to use them?
I don't know the exact #s but here's what I've heard (on the documentary on STDs on Discovery Health)
It's easier for all parties to contract STDs via anal sex because it's more likely to get torn membranes that way thus increasing the chances of blood to blood contact.
It's easier for women to catch HIV than men from unprotected vaginal sex.
The chaces of infection are actually harder than one might think through a single encounter, not only is 100% WAY off the mark 1% is also, but given what HIV is then why take even a small chance?
I'm not current on everything so I have no idea what's up. What happened to Darren James, or the "Darren James fiasco" as someone phrased it? (if there's another thread on this subject a point in that direction would be helpful).
"This country was founded by white men who loved to fuck black women." 63 Posts 1/04
Posted - Apr 17 2004 : 8:06PM
Can someone tell me the following? 1) Has there ever been performance related HIV infection in Gay Pornography? 2) If so or not, why? 3) Do Gay Pornographic Production companies handle STD testing differently than their straight counterparts? I ask this because of the comments of Mr. Clarke.
Homosexuality and anal sex have been a part of human sexuality from the very beginning. Why do people insist on treating it as an anathema? Anal sex does not cause HIV infection. Anal sex does not lead to AIDS. HIV is a virus that is spread through the exchange of body fluids. These are the facts.
The vast majority of HIV infections are due to unprotected vaginal sex, not anal sex. This is the case on every populated continent. And, if the theory of HIV originating in African Green Monkeys is true, than were the monkeys having anal sex too?
It is clear to me that Mr. Clarke does not care to view nor engage in anal sex. But, to use the tragedy that is the global HIV pandemic as a campaign against anal sex and (carried to its logical conclusion) the Gay Community is just patently false and irresponsible. It really smacks of the kind of vitriol and bigotry that was heaped on Gays when HIV was first brought to public awareness.
Yes, we must be careful. Yes, we must be vigilant. Yes, we must have a reasoned and civil discussion about STD prevention. But, we must not devolve into cannibalistic hyperbole. The enemies of free speech and the Adult Industry are lurking like vultures hoping to pick us all to pieces. We must not give them the feast they are anticipating.
[Link]
Pocketcomb_Pimp Deactivated User
1921 Posts 7/03
Posted - Apr 17 2004 : 8:13PM
Jewel, let me make sure that I understand. Are you saying if someone goes third world, you are going to blacklist them? Chances are no one will be in a hurry to go there anytime soon, but I'm trying to figure out if this is something that you are going to stand by, or once this cools off would you reconsider?
