You're unwittingly making the best argument yet for mandatory condom use in porn. Even though you wouldn't accept it, there are undoubtedly millions of other porn fans who would (and do) accept condom use in their porn. It's funny how you want anal fans to be self-sacrificing for the cause of maximizing the health protection of porn performers by giving up on anal sex in porn, but when it comes to you being self-sacrificing and consuming porn in which condoms are used, you want to bail out. This implies that your primary goal is securing your own selfish agenda rather than genuine concern for the health of the porn talent.
But... and stop me if I'm being silly, how will you know if a performer you hire hasn't shot in these other countries--because they told you so? And how do you know they haven't done scene WITH someone who was working in these countries?
And then there's always that question of responsible sex outside the industry--which you have even less control over.
Is there something I'm missing here? That's a pretty bold decision and proclamation you're making there when no one really knows yet what the true status of the current crisis is...
Not trying to feed the alarmism around here... Lord knows we have enough of that, just trying to understand if you're policy is truly going to reduce risk...
Edited to add: Oops... I just found Hardwares post that brings up the same issue...
Concern for the health of the porn talent is the duty of the porn talent, not me. I'm just suggesting cutting out what IS a higher risk activity as a way to make it safer. As for porn consumers, we're all selfish, I can certainly understand how fans of anal wouldn't want this. I'm willing to bet that when the initial shock of this dies down and it fades further into memory that nothing in porn will change from what it is now, nothing at all. The bottom line will still be the $$$.
The answers to most of these questions are in a recent thread in the Gay porn forum, about a company called Titan. The thread was started by Tricia Devereaux.
I'm also perplexed by Jewel's comments about PXP not hiring people who have recently worked in third world countries. How would anyone know where a performer has recently been, since there's no registry of where a person has shot scenes. And what about when someone like Rocco Siffredi goes and shoots a film in Russia? It's not quite third world, but it's not Prague or Budapest either.
Back to the topic of anal sex, I watched an anal scene recently, but before this HIV situation developed, in which there were 2 men and 1 woman, in a middle-of-the road gonzo film from one of the better companies. First one man came inside the woman's ass, then the other man did. My first thought was that the woman was now exposed to any infections that might have been carried in the semen of these two men. My second thought was that the second man had exposed himself to the 1st man's semen, and any infections that might have been present in it. Kind of gave me the creeps, and I wondered if the second man had any misgivings about doing the scene this way.
Exactly. It's a thin, virtually transparent, piece of latex, that is barely visible half the time. It's not like those black bars they place over people's faces to 'disguise' them on tv. It's just a condom. Can someone please explain how this would totally wreck your viewing experience? Because I just don't get it.
Huh some one read what I wrote and is doing it, cool! Just seems to me in Brazil there's a higher risk, someone said 96% of the hookers are HIV and I bet most of them do porn over there and then they can get a fake test for 10 bucks? They should bane the guy, bi and tran as well!
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DenverDon Benevolent
Firmly Embedded in Depravity 5914 Posts 7/02
Posted - Apr 18 2004 : 1:41AM
hardball,
Stick to the facts and don't post suppositions.
"someone said 96%" and "I bet most of them are" are not quotable sources.
If a person has tested HIV+, then for all practical purposes he/she is banned, or out of the industry as a performer.
"someone said 96%" and "I bet most of them are" are not quotable sources.
Sorry Den, What is a quotable source? I thought when someone say's something and I quote it, I am just repeating what they say and not stating it as fact? I wouldn't take the News as fact but I might repeat what they say.
If a person has tested HIV+, then for all practical purposes he/she is banned, or out of the industry as a performer. [/quote]
Yes that's my point! Ok I don't know because I don't work for the industry but someone here who say's he/she does. Said and I am not stating this as fact!!! That they can get a fake test for 10 dollars! And that would me that they are working in the Industry showing fake papers!!! I think this has been done before.
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jewel denyle Platinum X Pictures
769 Posts 4/03
Posted - Apr 18 2004 : 2:07AM
I use all my guys at PXP so I know where they have been and anyone else I use I know where they have been it's a small community and word get's out who's shooting where and when. I'm a non condom company and I will not use condoms in my movies if you don't have a current test you don't shoot and that's that. Restrictions will be enforced if you go to places you shoot that you shouldn't you will not work for me. As for the girls I know their story as I go through their agents and get the run down on them to find out what they've been shooting I care more about talent as I'm former talent and I care alot about the girls and guys I shoot with as they are my friends and co workers. I screen everyone who is in one of my movies to make sure they are all current and I always check tests and show talent each others tests so everyone is clear on dates. The sad thing is not all directors do this and they just shoot without even looking at a test or caring I hope that stops now that this has happend and they don't just assume everyone is tested and ok.
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Pocketcomb_Pimp Deactivated User
1921 Posts 7/03
Posted - Apr 18 2004 : 2:44AM
Jewel, does Platinum have any contract tallent as of yet?
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jewel denyle Platinum X Pictures
769 Posts 4/03
Posted - Apr 18 2004 : 2:59AM
Julian,Brandon Iron,Michael Stefano,Kylie Ireland,Sean Michaels,Steve Holmes and Mason.
I assume that "Mr. Clarke" refers to me ... it's "Clark," by the way. Am I against anal sex? No. Am I against the proliferation of UNPROTECTED ANAL SEX in porn? Most certainly. Has there been work-related HIV transmission in the gay porn industry? Yes, quite a bit. Go do your homework elsewhere on the net. Unlike some, I am not using this crisis as an excuse to work out my male homophobia. If you had any familiarity with me, my work, my published writings, you would know I'm quite the opposite.
Yes, anal sex has been around since Day One. So has murder. And at this point in human history, post-HIV, to have UNPROTECTED anal sex with numerous partners on a daily basis is certainly courting disaster.
Without having read through the whole thread, but there still is and always will be a MASSIVE amount of back catalogue stuff of already-released material covering every one of our most belived deviant circus tricks by a plethora of companies.
Seriously, there's SO much stuff out there that unless you're constantly churning through 2-3 DVDs a week never to re-watch them you could go for years without needing to buy anything released later than today.
Oo it's not that much of a stressful porn fix situation, even for adamantly-non-condom watchers. Please note, Ramsey, even though I quoted your post this is a more general reply rather then directly at you. You just made the easiest-to-reply-to post out of the ones I've read so far...
As it happens, we've seen this happen before about 10 years ago, the whole Marc Wallace episode. I expect that what you've said above there will turn out to be true and soon enough we'll be back where we were before this happened.
scipio
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Pocketcomb_Pimp Deactivated User
1921 Posts 7/03
Posted - Apr 18 2004 : 11:12AM
Thanks, good tip. Julian, good performer. I thought Brandon , and Michael were strickly behind the camera these days. I am assuming that Kylie is a new signing. Sean career has come back from the brink, thanks to people like yourself that still believe. Sorry, but I don't know anything about Steve or Mason, but I know you know tallent, so I'll keep one eye open.
Side note. Jewel, I have to compliment you in the class you showed while making the transition to IR movies. I won't speak on others, but you showed it doesn't have to be hard or dramitic. Kudos to you miss.
Thanks Jewel for getting involved here. It is very important for the fans to understand the feeling on this from someone in the industy. As people, on the outside, we can only guess what fear there is in the industry.
Before we jump to condom only or no anal, lets look at the facts here. The facts that we have now, or as close to the facts that we know is that. Darren James, with a positive test for HIV was performing with a young new comer, Lara Roxx. Darren was filming in Brazil in March and there is a great article at AVM.com's site by Mark Kernes going into the chronological details.
While there are set precautions in the United States and Canada with required test, policies and procedures, what the heck do they do in Brazil, Hungry, the Czech Republic? Are these people who go over asking for trouble? Don't we have enough people here to perform?
Unions? This was a topic that came up a few weeks ago. What security, benefits, etc. do stars have. Aside from a good manager, who is watching out for these people? A lot of people are saying it is up to the talent to due this for themseleves. This may be a perfect time for all the people involved in this $13B industry to find out a way for some sort of health beneifts, savings accounts, etc. Not that it would be mandatory for participation, but at least an option to look at. While some talent has a wealth of longevity and can cross-over into directing, etc., those numbers get smaller and smaller.
There is already a government who is looking at any way possible to stop our freedom of speech as Americans. By having these problems make their way into national news, this does not help the casue. The powers that be must take the time now to develop funds going forward for cases like this, find a way to provide health benefits and savings options. If not, what are the conditions that can result?
As adult film becomes more and more mainstream and becomes more and more intense with the growing populaity of anal, double anal, cream pies, etc., as risks continue, preventitive methods must also be heightened. By calling for an end to anal, or condom free film is not only a violation of our rights, but a dumb idea. Performers must protect themesleves and others by determing what they will and won't do and the rest of the set must agree with that decision. In the AVN article, it is implied that during her scene with Darren, Lara was pushed into double anal. If talent is couerced into doing things they don't want to, isn't that rape?
As adults we cannot pass blame, issue unrealistic mandates or add fuel to the prorverbial fire. The team of adult performaers, distributors, studios, crews, etc. This is a tough situation and our thoughts, prayers and contributions should speak volumes over any critisims.
Ms Christine & JC, the first couple of adult review.
Hey everyone. This is so sad. It's sad when anyone gets HIV... or Cancer or whatever else for that matter... but this is particularly sad I think because Lara was so new to the industry and... relatively speaking of course... so innocent. It's one thing to get HIV by just being really reckless in your own private life... it's another to get it by participating in a legitimate commercial industry. Like any industry, there should be stringent regulations, safeguards and processes in place to protect the workers. This will be especially true as porn becomes more and more mainstream. The 'masses' won't want to support an industry that puts it's workers at great risk... or at least that it perceives as putting it's workers at risk. I know there are some things in place... but they certainly didn't help in this case.
That said... I understand that no matter what you do and no matter how many safeguards are in place... shit will still happen. There is always just plain old bad luck... wrong place, wrong time. But still... I'm sure that a whole lot more could be being done. Certainly, having unprotected sex with prostitutes in Brazil... whether or not that's where Darren picked this up... is not exactly the most prudent thing to do. I don't want to blame Darren, and my heart goes out to him as well, but I have to wonder why it was that he and Marc didn't seem to be aware of the risk in Brazil? It's clear from an article on AVN that they thought nothing of it. Marc actually said something to the effect that he "did some research on the internet after this happened and found out that there are actually more people in the US with HIV than in Brazil... so it's actually more dangerous here". WTF?! That shocked the hell out of me... that someone with his experience in the Industry could think that (and ummm... can you say 'per capita'???). And most of all I was shocked that he's educating himself via Google... after the fact!!!
Anyway... I might suggest... after reading all the posts about banning anal or about how driving is statistically more dangerous than doing porn or condoms vs. no condoms or finger pointing etc... head on over to AVN.com and read the interview with Lara posted yesterday. Honestly, it will absolutely break your heart. I would give up every single bit of non-condom porn ever made to give this terrified young girl her life back. I hope and pray that she has a supportive group of friends and family to help her though this and that she comes thru it ok in the long run.
I also hope to hell the industry makes some serious changes. As a consumer, I will be watching to see what is done and by whom and I will be careful about who I support in the future with my consumer dollars.
Some of the reasons why they use women from Eastern Europe:
1: The Women are beatiful. 2: They show up on time for the shoot. 3: They don't complain as much as the american perfomers. 4: They do all the nasty things. (Anal, DP, ATM and more) 5: They don't cost as much as the american perfomers.
I think that would be reason enough for studios to shoot in Eastern Europe.
Try and read the thread from Quaserman a while back about the differences between female perfomers in Europe and The States.
I'm not sure what you really meant to say here, but every article about this I have seen says that he stopped performing immediately when he received the test result.
That would mean that he did not perform "with a positive test" with anyone.
If you really mean what you said above, that seems to be a very serious allegation.
Speaking of allegations, in this article at AVN Lara Roxx appears to be claiming that she was pressured against her will into performing DAP in the scene where she may have been infected.
from the article
Not a good story, people.
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jewel denyle Platinum X Pictures
769 Posts 4/03
Posted - Apr 19 2004 : 4:47PM
Well I don't believe into pressuring any talent into doing anything they don't want to do. I give them the rundown on the scene and I already know their limits and wouldn't push anyone into doing something that wasn't agreed upon before hand. I remember directors (Male) trying to get me to do things right in the middle of a shoot and I said I'm not doing that and if it's a problem I'd walk off the set I think more girls need to stand up for themselves and make it clear what they're limitations are and not get pressured into shit they don't want to do. Not to sound like all male dirctors are bad but sometimes they don't think about the womans body and what's healty and what's not for that particular female individual.
Do you mean you said to a director, "I'm not doing that and if it's a problem I'd walk off the set." Or do you mean you said, "I'm not doing that," and if it's a problem I'd walk off the set, meaning that there were times when it was a problem, and you did really leave a set.
Have you ever known times when an actress did leave?
Even I've seen scenes, where the director just left the footage in, where in the middle of the scene he decides to change the program, and ask for anal, or a dp, when he must have known the actress didn't do that stuff. I get the idea this sort of thing is more common than we viewers think.
I'm just wondering how much more common this practice is taking place, changing program in the middle of the scene. Dark workings of the business.
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jewel denyle Platinum X Pictures
769 Posts 4/03
Posted - Apr 19 2004 : 5:40PM
Sometimes directors try to take advantage of you and try to get you to do things that aren't part of the deal. I never once let anyone push me into something I didn't want to do by believe me there are directors that try to take advantage of new girls. I'm just strong willed and if they wanted the scene finished it was on my terms or they had a half finished scene. I always got my way but it shouldn't of been a problem to begin with and not all girls are as strong willed as I am and feel they have to do what they are told or they'll get a bad rep for being difficult. I stronly suggest anyone who feels pushed into something to walk away if they really need you they'll work with you on terms that both parties agree upon.
It's up to the director to stick to his word and be a professional. If he hired an actress, particularly through a booking agent, for a certain type of scene, it is his responsibility to act like a mature adult, and keep his part of the bargain. Nearly every one of these guys are 30 or older; I would hope that they can behave like grown-ups.
If the porn industry wants respect from the rest of the world, the people in it who hold the power should act like professionals. This kind of crap wouldn't make it in the corporate world. If you agreed to something, then changed things halfway through a deal, you'd rapidly find yourself with a reputation as someone who can't be trusted, and you'd watch your standing/business suffer.
Now you know why I took the power into my own hands and I love to help the girls who have any questions or concerns and I feel I set an example the way things should be done.
I agree that a director or company should stick to what they agree on. I mean there shouldn't be mandatory rules about condoms, etc imposed by the industry or the law. As for porn getting respect from mainstream society, it will never happen. It will always be looked at as Hollywood's blacksheep stepchild, no matter how popular it is.
When someone is nineteen years old, away from her home country, in a strange town with a hotel bill to pay, and looking for her first shoot, she is not exactly in a position of power.
It would have been very hard for her to resist pressure and walk off the set in those circumstances I think.
It's been mentioned in this thread about the Lara Roxx interview, where she says she wasn't told up front that the scene would require a DAP, until she got to the set. People seem to be somewhat surprised that this could happen.
I just came across another one of these "the actress was ill-informed" situations. I finally got around to renting Vince Vouyer's XXX Road Trip 4 from RLD. This is the one where he makes his infamous comment to an actress Angela that she ought to be working at McDonald's, she's not meant for porn. There was quite a controversy about this back in Nov. when the movie first came out.
If you watch the Boner footage in the movie, the director shows the casting call he had with this actress and the Czech porn agent. Vouyer is told that the actress has only been doing porn for a month, that she really doesn't like anal, but she is willing to try for the first time (the agent says this, Angela's English is so poor, it's not certain that she even understands that they are talking about an anal sex scene). The agent seems anxious for her to get hired. Vouyer seems more interested in her all-natural breasts than her inexperience, her shy demeanor, and that she's wearing a cross (she's probably religious).
This wouldn't be so bad, except that he's making a movie in which every scene will be DP's of one sort or another. They never tell Angela during the casting call that she will have to do a DP. You can guess the outcome - even Vouyer says this is the worst scene he's ever shot, during the closing credits to the film.
However, at least at the time of the filming, he doesn't take any responsiblity for this fiasco. He hired her knowing that she hasn't done anal, that she's inexperienced, and without giving out all the details of the scene to her. He acts like it was all her fault that the scene turned out poorly.
Why do directors do these things? It's like throwing money out a window, when they make bad casting decisions. I would think for this reason alone, they wouldn't hire the wrong kind of actress.
Hopefully Angela didn't catch an STD from her American porn experience.
--------------------------------------------------------- mod note: fixed hyperlink
An HIV blood screen is only accurate until the "talent" leaves the filming studio and has unprotected sex with another partner, (potentially someone not in the porn industry).
There is an incubation period during which the disease becomes infectious to others, but it is not universally agreed upon as to the precise length of time required for this virus to become accurate and detectable.
One trusts his or her life to a great deal of chance in this situation.
I remember the good old days when sex was safe and parachuting was dangerous.
And others have guaranteed the people who claim they will buy condom porn won't. Obviously people change their minds but neither you nor I know which ones will and which ones won't. So why don't we all just give it a rest?
Then I look at this set of Lara Roxx at HardcoreGossip (http://www.hardcoregossip.com/lararoxxtgp.html) and think about how weird it is to look at her now...now that she is HIV+. If she hadn't done double anal or anal at all that day, would it be differently?
I do think that the notion of barring anal sex from porn because of this outbreak is a kneejerk reaction and I don't agree with it. I am only posting this to say that I understand the reaction.
