Talk on the Faux Incest thread that Team Skeet/Daughter Swap had to edit a few scenes , as they strayed over the "step" line .I'm actually surprised at the extremes porn has gone to . I admit to finding some of the shoplyfter scenes hot , and I don't think there's any other description for it than a depiction of rape . Then there's the scenes from PKF , which heads right into sexual abuse , rape , snuff and necrophilia , PKF has scenes with most major stars . Taboo incest scenes still largely are played as "step" family , piss still somewhat taboo and scat a major no-no , which is s bit strange if you think about it .
While you may think that porn has gone more extreme in recent times. I can assure you that it always was and in some cases it was even more so. The only difference today is that it's more readily available to watch because of the internet. Incest, pseudo-incest, rape, snuff, bestiality, piss and the no-no subject were getting filmed more than 3 decades ago and even starred some pretty high end performers.
The fact that pseudo-snuff film still get made or at least used to (Can't say either way) is something that has always boggled me because while I think performers who choose to shoot a fairly standard vaginal only sex scene is normal. Exactly why would they want to do a pseudo-snuff film knowing that the guy is suppose to kill them prior to or after the sex scene and it's not like they really know that person?
In a free society who are we to judge what is extreme and what not? In the seventies a simple pornmag was considered extreme. In the 90s fisting. In the 2000s squirting.
Porn contains fantasy setups.
For me there are two important rules:
1-Performers have to be at legal age 2-There has to be concent between performers
I don't like rapescenes either but when there is concent and legal age there should be no law againt making it. And why is it ok to portray incest in Game of Thrones and why is it not ok to have incest fantasy scenes in porn?
If its not your cup of tea just skip and move on to your own fantasy
Has porn actually gone to extremes recently or has what seems to be the anonymity of the internet allowed extremes in pornography become more obvious? Perhaps as you may have dug further on the internet, you've merely found more than you realized was out there?
Max Hardcore cast women of legal age but made depictions of them being underage though he couldn't be convicted when charged. His porn gathered notoriety in part also because of pissing on the performers and in their mouths. Much of this porn was shot more than 15 years ago. "Extreme" porn is nothing new.
To begin with. There is no such thing as a free society. If there was then we would be free to take what our neighbor owns simply because we want it. What we call societies create laws to make sure that there are some rules that can't be broken and we empower individuals to enforce those laws and punish those who break them. Now laws change over time and what was once a crime may no longer be one or not as severe as it once was. We still consider horse theft to be a crime but we don't hang or flog people for it.
The same goes for what is considered normal and extreme pornography. Playboy may have once been considered extreme pornography and I suspect some people still do but I have seen my share of fashion magazine where there is a significant amount of nudity that would make many past Playboy magazines blush. The same goes fetishes. Some fetishes are more acceptable than others and I would argue that some societies find certain fetishes more acceptable than others and even enjoy them more than other societies.
I agree that as long as the people involved are of legal age then what they do should technically speaking be allowed as long as they don't break any laws but where you and I might disagree is in what is considered consent. Being 18 means that you are considered old enough to make your own decisions and face the consequences of those decisions but I argue that being 18 does not mean you have the wherewithal to understand all the ramification of consenting to doing porn. I'm not even sure than a 21 years old has it either but they would definitely have more of it than someone 3 years their junior has.
I haven't seen many porn rape videos and the few that I have I consider to be more pseudo-rape than actual rape so maybe I'm not the best judge for what passes for a true rape porn video. When I think of what a rape might be like then I think of what happened to Jodie Foster in the Accused. It was graphically violent and by no means sexually stimulating.
I agree that not many people seem to have an issue with main characters having a long term incestuous relationship in GoT but will get on their high horse and condemn it when they see it in porn but I have a theory that most of the really ardent morale crusaders are deep down some of the biggest offenders and use their attack as a shield to hide what they do. I have heard more than story of a rightwing homophobe getting caught soliciting gay men?
^ Pat, a free society does not mean you can do whatever you want with no consequences, it means that you are free to make your own actions but be judged (and, if severe enough, punished) for these actions if society deems it unacceptable.
^ by that definition, I can also do what I want in Communist North Korea - and face the consequences.
Going back to the original theme: All the Zero Tolerance titles (My Step<Daughter/Son/Mother/Father> yada yada yada...) that Mike Quasar complains so much about aside, how are Digital Sin/New Sensations getting away with titles such as "My Sister Has Big Tits", "My Sister's First Anal" etc, where there is no "step" involved... (not sure if there is dialogue pertaining to that issue).
^I'm not too familiar with these titles so I don't know if they are more marketing than actual content and by that I mean that there is very little actual dialogue promoting the pseudo-incestuous relationship of the performers prior to them having so called incestuous sex but if they are then it's not impossible that could be targeted by CC companies. That said I doubt that the two main CC companies care all that much. Twitter, Instagram and OF seem to be cracking down on this type of content but only IG and OF need CC companies to function.
Yeah, because North Korea gives people the same basic freedoms as the USA and UK...
I meant that people have the freedom to be a dick if they so choose, but there will be consequences if they cross the line. North Korea has a much closer line to cross. Set by a dictator, and not by a senate/parliament voted for by the people.
True , old enough to have been thru the late golden era . There were a lot a flicks with abductions ,rape (remember Water Power , one of the most perverse flicks ever), implied incest , etc.
Yeah, I don't think porn has really become that much more extreme, but as with all things in the internet era, it is easier to get exposed to that stuff nowadays. In fact I would actually say that extreme porn arguably peaked (if that's the appropriate word to use here) in the early 2000s and has soften up a bit since. Not by a big extent, but even in Japan things have become stricter, a backlash to the super wild early 2000s in a way. But again, not by much. There is still plenty of incest, rape-themed, faux underaged, vomit, scat and so on content being made in Japan today.
In the Digital Sin/New Sensations product with similar titles to the above I've seen, the scenes are depicting step relations, whatever the titles might imply.
I think it's actually the other way around and porn has become far more homogenised. Porn used to be the Wild West with mad stuff like Max Hardcore, Meatholes, Slap Happy etc. Those were the days when you had to physically buy the movie from a store.
Now porn is a slave to credit card billing companies as it's all online and they are petrified to take a risk as, if the billing company bails on them, they lose their entire subscription base. Porn is now much more safe and corporate. There are the odd exceptions of course like a Facial Abuse or some PPV stuff on onlyfans. Most of the big providers though now play it extremely safe.
All manner of bloodshed and killing in Hollywood movies. Porn comes nowhere near, in my view. Simply a squeamish public afraid of sex...especially penises for some reason?
^^Let me disprove some of your assertation. Max Hardcore begot Hookup Hotshot. Meatholes begot Facial Abuse. You have sites like Hoby Buchanon and Dick Drainers that shoot a pretty extreme type of porn and somehow we don't hear anything about the two major CC putting a stop to their ability to shoot their brand of porn.
You have to understand that when porn was on physical media. It was not available to anyone under the age of 18 and it was nearly impossible to buy. You could rent tapes but purchase prices made it beyond almost anyone's budget. The internet has in fact created a sort of Wild West because now anyone with an internet access and a credit card can buy porn and in many cases you don't even need a credit card because of Tube and torrent sites.
If we are talking about pseudo incest themed porn then you see significantly more of that type of porn now than you did a decade ago and it's not even comparable to anything before that. At this point the only studios I can think of that were targeted by CC companies are Kink and PornHub. The first for a specific type of scene which they quickly stopped producing to later produce again and PH for allowing anyone to upload just about anything on their platform.
^There is no denying that there is a substantial double standard when it comes to what is X-rated and what isn't because I think many Hollywood mainstream movies go way beyond what porn does and yet never get the dreaded "X" rating. I see it differently when it comes to penises and vaginas because the US is the top producing porn country in the world and likely it's top customer as well so while you have many vocal individuals and groups decrying the amount of penises and vaginas. Clearly some of these people are talking from both sides of their mouths as they likely enjoy watching their fair share of porn behind closed doors.
Hookup Hotshot is a very watered down version of Max Hardcore. It's nowhere near what Max used to do. Facial Abuse is closer but even they won't go as far as Max used to and they don't shoot any of the big name girls. They usually have pretty rough looking amateurs on there. Yes there are some amateurs out there like Dickdrainers and Hoby and they do represent the more Wild West element and are prepared to take a risk but they are not major players in the industry.
As for pseudo-incest, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone shooting that now. It's all stepfamily stuff despite mainstream tv shows being able to show roleplay incest sex with no problem at all.
My point stands though that porn is not getting more hardcore or pushing more boundaries, it's less hardcore now than it was 20 years ago.
With 4K video, in a strict sense porn is more explicit. I'm not trying to be funny. If 4K has been available in the early 80s, the moral majority would have gone nuts over content like Hegre and FTV, which is now considered "softcore" in some quarters.
^ I'm not sure that is pertinent to the OP's question. The discussion is whether porn is more extreme, not more explicit and the two really shouldn't be conflated. Sexually explicit porn has been around since long before 4K was even a concept. Likewise, "extreme" porn such as Max Hardcore had been around without 4K.
Indeed 4K can show more detail but resolution and video quality can be lower and "good enough". I don't see 4K as the make or break in explicitness.
Hustler magazine created huge moral outrage in the 1970s when the models posed with pink shots, without 4K video. Yes, 35mm film can be digitally scanned at 4K but that wasn't done back then.
[Link]
NymphGamerAddict69 Deactivated User
29 Posts 3/21
Posted - Apr 5 2021 : 3:19AM
There's definitely some studios that legalize and consent-ualize rape.
Like in my option if a girl shot for blackpayback, she's being paid to get raped.
Like dickdrainers and hotshothookup are similarly as disgusting
^ Are you trolling? I don't care for any of the sites you mentioned but that first sentence is nonsense. Can you not see the blatant contradiction of "consensualizing rape"? Rape by definition is non-consensual. The roughness is not to my taste but it doesn't determine if something is rape or not.
Let's not get carried away with this narrative and belittle the cases were consent was allegedly violated though a performer wasn't treated roughly.
I don't disagree with you and I'm not asking for porn to be rougher. I'm just disagreeing with the original post that porn is more extreme now than it was before. Billing companies are actually pushing things in the opposite direction. You guys obviously manage to get around that though which is why I wonder why other sites are so scared to push things at all.
I don't need or want all porn to be super rough FA style, variety is great and I like lots of different stuff. It's just sad that people like Bareback Studios or Meana Wolf for example now feel they have to change their family roleplay content to stepfamily roleplay due to pressures from billing companies. I know Natalie Brooks had to take down a bj scene with pissing in recently too as they changed rules on swallowing piss. Just feels like censorship is creeping in more and more.
I think you are confuting the situation in regards to why more producers aren't shooting content similar to FA. I doubt it's a question of fear of reprisal so much as it's a desire to get talent to work for them. It's no secret that established performers almost never work for FA and I doubt it's because FA doesn't pay well. I suspect that they are a very generous studio and yet they can't get well known performers to work for them and therefore anyone trying to copy/emulate their style will face the same issue and that's why studios avoid shooting content that is even remotely close to FA.
As for BBS switching what was once pseudo-incest themed porn to now pseudo-step-family porn. Isn't that mostly in the description of the scenario and less about actual content and dialogue. Unless you now have dialogue that uses the term step-father or step-mother than isn't the bulk of the dialogue still using terms like mommy or daddy when the performers interact?
You're misunderstanding me, I'm not suggesting more companies should shoot FA style stuff. They shouldn't, it's a fairly niche market and most girls don't want to do stuff at that level. They did get some more mainstream girls when they did some shooting on the west coast but it was less extreme.
All I am doing is disagreeing that porn is getting more extreme, it's not, it's actually more censored and the incest stuff is another example. BBS have not just altered scene descriptions, all their new stuff is stepfamily porn and makes it very clear throughout the scene. This applies to Meana Wolf too and Family Therapy etc. Mainstream sites have done this for years but now even niche fetish companies are having to tone stuff down because Pornhub and c4s won't host their stuff otherwise due to pressure from credit card billing companies.
So no, I'm not suggesting more porn should go the FA route, just that people should be allowed to shoot what they want as long as it's consensual and not illegal.
^I didn't think you were implying that more producers should shoot content similar to FA and that's why I wrote that it has very little to do with the desire of other producers and everything to do with getting top notch talent. I don't want to denigrate the women who shoot for FA but you rarely see them shoot for anyone else. That doesn't mean that FA hasn't had the odd well known performer over the years but as a rule they get unknown amateurs who I would argue shoot for them and then never shoot for anyone else because their experience on an FA shoot gives them an erroneous idea of what it's like in most porn shoot.
You will have to give me example of BBS changes in dialogue in their more recent pseudo-incest videos because I can't find any.
Thanks for that because I was looking at content shot prior to November and I notice that the dialogue is different after that.
[Link]
NymphGamerAddict69 Deactivated User
29 Posts 3/21
Posted - Apr 29 2021 : 6:45AM
Just to clarify what I said.
There's MANY examples in porn of woman showing to a shoot (paying money for flights...etc) and being asked to do things which were not agreed initially, and if she refuses, they tell her she won't be paid a dime. So she begrudgingly does it. Ana Rose is a clear example.
therefore with studios that do the extreme hardcore shit, no sane woman would do some of the things that they do if no money was involved. Additionally guys who would want to do what the guys in those porn scenes do, I guarantee that you'd never do this with your wife or gf or a random hookup or even most prostitutes wouldn't even let you do it, unless you paid them a fortune.
So yes technically speaking if they agreed to everything that's done in the scene, it's not technically rape. But don't you think she's hating every moment of it as she's doing it?
This article if true, only God knows what's true and what's not, but it seems like the evidence pointed to leigh raven being in the wrong, but she still thought she was raped, even though she agreed to it.
In addition there's many cases where rape was Proven, Markus Dupree for example.
So the point I'm trying to make is that while porn might for the most part seem consensual, there are elements that are grey areas, and porn which specifically mimics rape scenes only encourage scandals and actual rape and should in my opinion be avoided..
Really sorry if people disagree, but you can do so politely
[Link]
Pr0nLover Deactivated User
247 Posts 1/19
Posted - Apr 29 2021 : 9:15PM
I personally don't think anything is going too far as long as its simulated. Taboo was a classic and they didn't do the step thing. They just put it out there that it was incest. I've seen a few great "rape" scenes that were really a turn on. I remember one in particular with Vanessa Del Rio and another seemingly underground vid called Forced Entry. The same can be said for schoolgirl/cheerleader type of stuff where its insinuated that the girl is underaged. I can understand if that is not everyone's cup of tea, even simulated, but one can always freely choose to not watch.
However, I understand why studios might be reluctant to cross certain lines even though its fiction. Hardcore adult film has been enjoying a certain renaissance for the last few decades, but it hasn't always been that way. It is still on the fringe of societal norms. There are still those who would like to greatly restrict it if not ban it outright. The industry has to be very careful not to provide those groups with the ammunition to do so. It's still extremely hardcore even if they have to explicitly state that the young girl is 18, or the child is a stepchild or that the person consents to the rough sex that is about to happen. It's a small enough price to pay to keep the industry flowing without any great hinderances.
[Link]
Lezzyist Deactivated User
Make Porn Erotic Again 1736 Posts 9/19
Posted - Apr 29 2021 : 9:34PM
More like going too annoying. Now we can barely have content without this creepy shit. Every video is a "somebody's barely-an-adult step-whateverthefuck" scenario. Sigh.
[Link]
tastethetang Deactivated User
536 Posts 4/21
Posted - Apr 29 2021 : 9:34PM
Somebody's content always goes too far. People get worried that talent could come back and claim there were not okay with the scene or the content, so scenes get re-shot, edited or abandoned.
^ Are there significant documented cases of that happening, specifically reshoots because the talent wasn't happy with the content? That is an expense somebody has to absorb. Does the model release not waive the talent's publication and distribution rights of the content provided the studio/website operates legally?
I can believe a few isolated incidents but for that to be the norm, it doesn't sound like a sustainable business model to have to worry about reshoots because talent has the power to veto publication because they weren't happy in retrospect despite signing away that right when the studio acted legally and in "good faith" with the talent.
^ "Re-shoots" probably don't occur too much, especially for Gonzo porn (in contrast to feature porn, or Show Case movies for certain actors). If one scene isn't good (enough), then it gets scrapped (or put in the vault for times like these), but often enough you read about talent flaking on an appointment, so a replacement talent is searched in a hurry. I get the impression that it is more about "we need a B/G scene" or "we need a oily B/G anal scene" that is ordered by the producer, the talent is more or less interchangeable.
I read somewhere here on the forum that scenes that are deemed not good enough getting scrapped happens all the time. So that's probably the producers "absorbing the cost", or it's simply factored in the production expenses, e.g. 90% of the scenes are usable, the rest is not usable for whatever reasons...
There's hundreds of scenes released every day that aren't family roleplay related. There's millions of scenes out there that aren't family roleplay related. It's nonsense to suggest that there's barely any content without this stuff. There's more non-family roleplay content than you could ever watch in your lifetime. No one is forcing anyone to watch this stuff, some people enjoy it but, if you don't, there's lots of other porn for you to watch.
Audrey Madison Interview
Posted - Mar 21 2021 : 8:54AM
