How to Stop the Tube Sites

Author	Post
JohnS Member 44 Posts 6/10	Posted - Jul 21 2010 : 10:36PM I don't know how they do it, but "True Religion" jeans has everyone including yahoo and google bent over and taking it like belladonna takes lex steele in the ass. i had a small amazon site that had some overpriced shitty true religion jeans on it. i got a c&d from some stupid bitch lawyer alleging trademark violation, blah, blah. so i do some googling to see what the fuck was up with that shit. well turns out they must have a team of lawyers doing c&d's. they even got to my host who bent over faster than katja kassin. i didn't really care, the site was crap anyway. but do a search on "true religion". google puts a disclaimer on every serp page that says results have been removed. true religion serves google and yahoo all the time and forces them to remove organic serp results that they think are infringing. no judge, no jury, no nothing. it's like they own the damn internet. check it out. i thought i had seen it all. christ even nintendo and apple don't have google bent over with a true religion cock in their ass. yeah they have adsense restrictions, but this is the serps! google said they'd never modify the serps. they remove any serp results true religion wants? wtf? wtf? wtf? lol true religion owns google's ass. http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=true+religion&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=Cl7Y4Ha1HTNKLCIGwNO_s7YsEAAAAqgQFT9DAXxs&fp=830d90d2738c16d2 vivid needs to hire the same lawyer. she'll have google the tube sites bent over and screaming like a hungarian porn star in no time at all. the above statements are just the opinion of the author. no statement of facts should be implied or construed. Edited by - JohnS on Jul 22 2010 [Link]
ninja1 Senior Member 2939 Posts 1/08	Posted - Jul 21 2010 : 10:48PM This is confusing. You were selling counterfit jeans on amazon? What's a serp? [Link]
celluloidferox Senior Member @EmperorCorndog 1438 Posts 1/10	Posted - Jul 21 2010 : 11:21PM yeah, what exactly the hell are you getting at? [Link]
JohnS Member 44 Posts 6/10	Posted - Jul 22 2010 : 12:00AM lol no my site was just an amazon affiliate site selling true religion jeans. i got a nasty c & d from true religion. my host took the site down. and apparently they serve google with c & d's all the time and google removes offending sites from the search engine results pages (serps) at their request. if the porn companies used a similar tactic, they could have the tube sites delisted in google, something that mike quasar alluded to in an earlier post. if google removes you from the serps i couldn't access "kasey kox swallows multiple loads on edit". not that i would ever do that, lol but comically enough there are results in the top ten that are chinese ripoff sites so who knows. maybe they can't keep up. Edited by - JohnS on 7/22/2010 12:01:22 AM [mod edit: name of tube site removed. We don't need to advertise for them. Thx.] Edited by - killbillvol69 on 2/2/2011 9:01:17 PM [Link]
ClayraBeau Member 659 Posts 2/10	Posted - Jul 22 2010 : 12:51AM Great SCOTT! EUREKA! Okay, sorry to be facetious here, but really? C&D's are worthless to most of the Tubes... They KNOW they're operating a piracy site, and they DON'T CARE.... Look at the blogs on The Pirate Bay. Funny to read, if you don't have any content up there... Sorry to burst your bubble :( [Link]

Harri Patel Senior Member #SDNY he's all yours. -- Michael Steele 5110 Posts 3/03	Posted - Jul 22 2010 : 1:09AM ^ But what he seems to be suggesting, in between the compulsive sodomy references, is C&Ding the search engines, not the tube sites themselves, in order to at least make it harder for people to get to the tube sites via the search engines. [Link]
Harri Patel Senior Member #SDNY he's all yours. -- Michael Steele 5110 Posts 3/03	Posted - Jul 22 2010 : 1:15AM This guy may be on to something. Vivid should hire a new batch of contract girls and require them to shoot sex scenes on Tuesdays and Thursdays and spend Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays in the office generating C&Ds. [Link]
ClayraBeau Member 659 Posts 2/10	Posted - Jul 22 2010 : 1:29AM Harri Patel wrote: ^ But what he seems to be suggesting, in between the compulsive sodomy references, is C&Ding the search engines, not the tube sites themselves, in order to at least make it harder for people to get to the tube sites via the search engines. Click to expand Now THAT might be an idea... That said, The Pirate Bay still comes up in Google searches.... [Link]
pornlaw Member 578 Posts 10/05	Posted - Jul 22 2010 : 2:47AM He is actually right on. Too many people in the industry are trying to go after Tubes with copyright but with the DMCA still in place that is a lost cause. Trademark is the way to go. And if the host doesnt take down the site they may be liable for allowing the TM infringement to continue... according to fairly recent Northern California District Court case. [Link]
ilikepornguy2010 Member 35 Posts 7/10	Posted - Jul 22 2010 : 11:06AM the easiest way to stop them is to me clearly the most obvious as well, and that is, give the consumer NO reason to go to a tube site, (any tube site), make the consumer WANT to go to a site where he or she can get what they want, what they are looking for [Link]
duefuss Member Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09	Posted - Jul 22 2010 : 11:41AM In my own limited experience, it SEEMS as though there is a little less piracy going on. An illusion of mine, or are people in the industry getting better at reducing piracy and limmiting tube sites? Are they working on ways to do even more, or are they still pretty much sitting around wringing their hands? [Link]
JohnS Member 44 Posts 6/10	Posted - Jul 22 2010 : 2:31PM yep pornlaw that's exactly what i meant. i hadn't seen that notice at the bottom of google before, so it's working. even big brother google is worried about it. true religion googles and finds links, and c&d's google and the host. either the case you referenced or something else put them on notice that you don't fuck with trademarks. my host bent over and took my site down first, and then emailed me. wtf? i thought they were joking. google is actually modifying their serps around true religions c&d's, something they said they'd never do. and let me stress again. we simply had amazon supplied pictures and content and were selling real merchandise as an amazon affiliate. i think they overreached, but i don't care. i hadn't put much work into the site. what's really funny is that true religion doesn't even own "true religion". only for jeans. their is a guy that owns "truerelgion.com" and he's got a big middle finger up to them. lol and yet google is still bending over. i really don't get it. but it's working. and yes, it was all trademark stuff, not dmca. the porn companies better start trademarking everything. can you trademark your gaping sphincter? lol what about having all your stars wear your trademarked baby doll t shirts or stockings, or clear heels? hmmmmm if any porn company needs some consulting done, i am available. [Link]
Haze Deactivated User 769 Posts 7/04	Posted - Jul 22 2010 : 2:35PM i don't think you can stop tube sites. Like the goverement stopped Napster and now I have even more ways to download music free. Its weird its like prohibition once its banned somehow it gets made better. Speaking of which ever sampled Prohibition recipe bourbon whiskey? Its fucking amazing way better than Jack or Jim Beam. [Link]
Mr Right Member 56 Posts 12/09	Posted - Jul 22 2010 : 2:44PM Haze wrote: Speaking of which ever sampled Prohibition recipe bourbon whiskey? Its fucking amazing way better than Jack or Jim Beam. Click to expand Tell me about it! That's the shit baby! Rhaaa... now you make me want to have one but I'm here stuck in my stupid office with my stupid boss. She has nice boobs though. Speaking of which, if I make a comment about her boobs, can it be considered as sexual harassment? Winning internet debates is my favourite pastime [Link]
ninja1 Senior Member 2939 Posts 1/08	Posted - Jul 22 2010 : 3:27PM Seekers of free porn don't need Google; there are other ways to find stuff. Frankly I don't understand why pirate sites would even want to be on Google, that's a dumb way to run an illegal operation. Smart would be an "under the radar" approach. Aren't there ways to make your site "invisible" to Google? OTOH, folks like JohnS are really really dependent on Google to funnel buyers to his Amazon affiliate thingy. So...in a way it's apples and oranges. Sites which rely on Google vs. sites who don't need no stinkin' Google. [Link]

von_swine Member Dominance & Persecution. 919 Posts 1/04	Posted - Jul 22 2010 : 3:37PM look, the only way to stop the tube sites & 'online' piracy is to abolish/destroy ALL forms of high speed internet connection and go back to dial-up since the agonizing download times will drive EVERYONE back to dvd & blu-ray. thats it. technology is killing porno as much as anything. well, the dvd side of porno. lates, Von S. Edited by - von_swine on 7/22/2010 3:38:42 PM [Link]
NewRomancer Deactivated User under THEIR avatar 738 Posts 7/08	Posted - Jul 22 2010 : 4:54PM The best way to deal with TubeSites is to make a product that people WANT to buy... Do that, and most people WILL buy your product and the few people who do get it for free won't matter a tinkers-cuss to you Unless you're a short-sighted, selfish, d-bag who cries about nickels when you're already making dollars. [Link]
duefuss Member Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09	Posted - Jul 22 2010 : 8:06PM The possibility of tube sites and piracy gpoing away is the same as that of porn itself going away. Once the box is open -- any box with something the people want in it --it can never be closed. The best that can be hoped is to minimize the damage by attaching as much legal risk to stealing porn as possible. The OP's notion is as original a n idea as I've heard for doing that. [Link]
pornlaw Member 578 Posts 10/05	Posted - Jul 22 2010 : 10:37PM JohnS wrote: the porn companies better start trademarking everything. can you trademark your gaping sphincter? lol what about having all your stars wear your trademarked baby doll t shirts or stockings, or clear heels? hmmmmm if any porn company needs some consulting done, i am available. Click to expand Not necessary. Really all they have to do it watermark their DVD content. I know there is a thread about Evil Angel doing it now and as consumers I would expect to see watermarks on all your DVD videos starting relatively soon. I am surprised it has taken the porn companies to figure this out. The watermark itself should be the TM... no different than the Nike swoosh on the side of a pair of sneakers. Pass off a fake Nike sneaker with their trademark on it and you have now violated the Lanham Act. [Link]
JohnS Member 44 Posts 6/10	Posted - Jul 23 2010 : 12:04AM yeah but i was assuming that if a renegade site clipped the watermark out of the frame, they could say they didn't know it was trademarked, and/or claim that there is no trademark since it's not visible. i wasn't exactly sure what you can and can't trademark. i think the idea of trademarking your gaping ass is kinda cool though. from wikipedia: The term trademark is also used informally to refer to any distinguishing attribute by which an individual is readily identified, such as the well known characteristics of celebrities. When a trademark is used in relation to services rather than products, it may sometimes be called a service mark, particularly in the United States.[2] i think belladona could trademake her gape! lol this is what i was thinking of. having all you porn stars wear a necklace or some piece of clothing with a trademark that is visible at all times and can't be removed without ruining the videos. http://gaygamer.net/images/nintendo-panties.jpg and i got news for ya. google could hurt the tube sites bad. esp. new ones. and while google c&d's stop the new ones, you go after the old ones. it would severely crimp their already thin business model. if the tm thing holds, the next step is to go after adultfriendfinder for advertising on the site. spam wasn't shut down in 2004, but it took away all but the shittiest of operators. can spam held the advertisers responsible. i think this step could shut the tube sites down completely. they all rely on a couple shitty affiliate deals from the adult chat sites and aff. get them to pull their ads, and it's over. trust me if a small fashion brand got google to modify the serps, the adult companies like vivid could get together and have a field day. Edited by - JohnS on 7/23/2010 12:14:57 AM [Link]
Bill All-Star Member 5334 Posts 6/00	Posted - Jul 23 2010 : 11:30PM pornlaw wrote: Not necessary. Really all they have to do it watermark their DVD content. I know there is a thread about Evil Angel doing it now and as consumers I would expect to see watermarks on all your DVD videos starting relatively soon. I am surprised it has taken the porn companies to figure this out. Click to expand It's taken this long because, by watermarking their DVD's they are screwing over the people who actually pay for the discs. It's like a car dealer spray painting graffiti on their cars to keep people from stealing them. I, for one, will not purchase any DVD's that have watermarks on them. I don't care why the watermarks are there. If you want to sell me a product, don't damage it prior to selling it. [Link]
joachim Senior Member 03 12 15 16 18 04 07 13 18 2285 Posts 1/09	Posted - Jul 23 2010 : 11:34PM Is this a watermark over the entire screen, or just a DOG in the bottom right corner? [Link]
pornlaw Member 578 Posts 10/05	Posted - Jul 24 2010 : 12:04AM Bill wrote: pornlaw wrote: Not necessary. Really all they have to do it watermark their DVD content. I know there is a thread about Evil Angel doing it now and as consumers I would expect to see watermarks on all your DVD videos starting relatively soon. I am surprised it has taken the porn companies to figure this out. Click to expand It's taken this long because, by watermarking their DVD's they are screwing over the people who actually pay for the discs. It's like a car dealer spray painting graffiti on their cars to keep people from stealing them. I, for one, will not purchase any DVD's that have watermarks on them. I don't care why the watermarks are there. If you want to sell me a product, don't damage it prior to selling it. Click to expand What if the watermark appeared and then faded after a few seconds and reappeared later... much like television studios/stations do it ? [Link]
Bill All-Star Member 5334 Posts 6/00	Posted - Jul 24 2010 : 12:44AM pornlaw wrote: What if the watermark appeared and then faded after a few seconds and reappeared later... much like television studios/stations do it ? Click to expand That's just as bad. If a company wants to have their logo on the screen during a scene, they should just incorporate it into the scene(s). How difficult would it be to frame a picture of the company's logo and hang it on the wall behind the action? In the "golden days" of Anabolic/Diabolic, the guys would often wear a shirt with the Anabolic or Diabolic logo at the beginning of the scene. With a minimal amount of creativity, there are lots of ways that producers can get their trademarked logos onto the screen without damaging their product or punishing the people who are legally purchasing their product. [Link]
shank Member 119 Posts 2/09	Posted - Jul 24 2010 : 7:56AM Actually to stop the tube sites, one must first to understand the rationale of the existence Youtube type of sites - which itself appears difficult even for economic experts. Tim Hartford (famous author of "Undercover Economist") runs a blog 'Dear Economist' where someone asks this question about why people upload free videos to sites. The economist admits he has no answer to this question as per standard economic models which are based on self-interest and asks the questioner to think for himself. [Link]

NewRomancer Deactivated User under THEIR avatar 738 Posts 7/08	Posted - Jul 24 2010 : 10:51AM shank wrote: Tim Hartford (famous author of "Undercover Economist") runs a blog 'Dear Economist' where someone asks this question about why people upload free videos to sites. The economist admits he has no answer to this question as per standard economic models which are based on self-interest and asks the questioner to think for himself. Click to expand That tells me that apparently these so-called standard economic models are for shit... [Link]
duefuss Member Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09	Posted - Jul 24 2010 : 11:54AM I don't think economics has anything to do with uploading. I think there are plenty of psychological reasons why people do so: a satisfaction in sticking it to the establishment, doing the forbidden, getting away with it, revenge for some real or imagined wrong (or to sabotage porn out of existence), or something as simple as sharing a vid with a friend through a torrent or tubesite that coincidentally makes it available to everybody. One might imagine uploading as his entre into a group with common interests -- paying his dues, as it were. I imagine there are countless motives for uploading, but clearly money can't be one of them, except of course in the case of a site or company that uploads stuff as advertising, an occurence that seems rather frequent to me. By and large, however, uploading can't really BE explained in economic terms. I've harped on this before, but motive is almost irrelevant in changing behavior. Not that you can't change one's behavior through identifying its cause and altering ones perceptions, but some times a lifetime is insufficient for such a task. Effective behavior modification consists in the very simple and logical process of attaching severe unpleasant consequences to the behavior and making those consequences as certain a result of the behavior as possible. the more you can make these two conditions apply to the unwanted behavior, the faster it will stop. The OP's own story is a perfect example of that. It's that simple, and you can argue all you want why it's not possible to do it, but until uploaders see their peers having to pay disastrous fines and go to prison for uploading, it won't diminish, and NOTHING is going to end it entirely. [Link]
Bill All-Star Member 5334 Posts 6/00	Posted - Jul 24 2010 : 12:30PM shank wrote: Tim Hartford (famous author of "Undercover Economist") runs a blog 'Dear Economist' where someone asks this question about why people upload free videos to sites. The economist admits he has no answer to this question as per standard economic models which are based on self-interest and asks the questioner to think for himself. Click to expand This so-called economist has his head so stuck in capitalism, that he's apparently unable to think outside of that box. Other than the thrill of "sticking it to the 'man'", the whole concept of tube and torrent sites is communal (or socialist) in nature. People put in what they can and take out what they need and the community thrives. In the case of tubes and torrents, the concept works better than in "real" life because when someone "takes", he isn't depriving someone else of that same thing. I person A downloads a video clip, it doesn't stop person B from also downloading it. If, rather than digital video, we were talking about food, if person A eats an apple, then there is one less apple for the rest of the community. Because of this concept of "shared taking", there needs to be a far lower percentage of contributors to that virtual society in order for it to succeed, in relation to the percentage of takers than there would need to be in a real communal society, in order for it to succeed. It also eliminates the instance of the "givers" getting mad at the people who don't contribute their fair share (or at all), but still take what they want. [Link]
UnkwnUsr2 Member 443 Posts 2/05	Posted - Jul 24 2010 : 1:04PM duefuss wrote: I don't think economics has anything to do with uploading. I think there are plenty of psychological reasons why people do so: a satisfaction in sticking it to the establishment, doing the forbidden, getting away with it, revenge for some real or imagined wrong (or to sabotage porn out of existence), or something as simple as sharing a vid with a friend through a torrent or tubesite that coincidentally makes it available to everybody. One might imagine uploading as his entre into a group with common interests -- paying his dues, as it were. I imagine there are countless motives for uploading, but clearly money can't be one of them, except of course in the case of a site or company that uploads stuff as advertising, an occurence that seems rather frequent to me. By and large, however, uploading can't really BE explained in economic terms. Click to expand Especially with tube sites the motivation of what is perceived as sharing content with fans is the most prominent, just as with YouTube. The number of those posting videos is a LOT smaller than those watching them. However, there is still a sense of community in that the posting of comments is possible, just as with YouTube. The ease of accessibility of tube sites and their high placement on Google combined with the promise of instant gratification is the main reason they are rightly seen as a major factor in porn piracy. However, the amount of porn available on tube sites is in no relation to the amount of porn pirated through file hosters, torrents and usenet. Porn only becomes available on tube sites after it has passed through these channels and some individual decides he wants to upload this content to a tube site, even though it is already available in these established channels. So invariably only a relatively small portion of pirated porn becomes available as streaming porn, but is then easily accessed by a much larger audience. Now, this is for tube sites only. File hosters are quickly becoming the single key element of piracy by giving strong economic incentives for their users to commit copyright infringement. In the past 2 years it's come to the point where a lot of this originates from automatic bots that automatically download and upload and spam their links to as many places as possible (including email) to get as many people as possible to download the pirated content, so much so that it is now even invading this board. A lot of this activity is coming from low-income regions such as India, Russia, Vietnam, Brazil which are known for being hotbeds of similar profit-based cyber-annoyances and cybercrime. The 2 biggest file hosting services are operating from Switzerland and Hong Kong, the legal implications of which are obvious. Edited by - unkwnusr2 on 7/24/2010 1:08:38 PM [Link]
TheDreamPolice Deactivated User 170 Posts 2/10	Posted - Jul 24 2010 : 2:58PM duefuss wrote: I don't think economics has anything to do with uploading. I think there are plenty of psychological reasons why people do so: a satisfaction in sticking it to the establishment, doing the forbidden, getting away with it, revenge for some real or imagined wrong (or to sabotage porn out of existence), or something as simple as sharing a vid with a friend through a torrent or tubesite that coincidentally makes it available to everybody. One might imagine uploading as his entre into a group with common interests -- paying his dues, as it were. I imagine there are countless motives for uploading, but clearly money can't be one of them, except of course in the case of a site or company that uploads stuff as advertising, an occurence that seems rather frequent to me. By and large, however, uploading can't really BE explained in economic terms. I've harped on this before, but motive is almost irrelevant in changing behavior. Not that you can't change one's behavior through identifying its cause and altering ones perceptions, but some times a lifetime is insufficient for such a task. Effective behavior modification consists in the very simple and logical process of attaching severe unpleasant consequences to the behavior and making those consequences as certain a result of the behavior as possible. the more you can make these two conditions apply to the unwanted behavior, the faster it will stop. The OP's own story is a perfect example of that. It's that simple, and you can argue all you want why it's not possible to do it, but until uploaders see their peers having to pay disastrous fines and go to prison for uploading, it won't diminish, and NOTHING is going to end it entirely. Click to expand It's money. Don't kid yourself [Link]
pornlaw Member 578 Posts 10/05	Posted - Jul 24 2010 : 3:03PM duefuss wrote: I don't think economics has anything to do with uploading. I think there are plenty of psychological reasons why people do so: a satisfaction in sticking it to the establishment, doing the forbidden, getting away with it, revenge for some real or imagined wrong (or to sabotage porn out of existence), or something as simple as sharing a vid with a friend through a torrent or tubesite that coincidentally makes it available to everybody. One might imagine uploading as his entre into a group with common interests -- paying his dues, as it were. I imagine there are countless motives for uploading, but clearly money can't be one of them, except of course in the case of a site or company that uploads stuff as advertising, an occurence that seems rather frequent to me. By and large, however, uploading can't really BE explained in economic terms. I've harped on this before, but motive is almost irrelevant in changing behavior. Not that you can't change one's behavior through identifying its cause and altering ones perceptions, but some times a lifetime is insufficient for such a task. Effective behavior modification consists in the very simple and logical process of attaching severe unpleasant consequences to the behavior and making those consequences as certain a result of the behavior as possible. the more you can make these two conditions apply to the unwanted behavior, the faster it will stop. The OP's own story is a perfect example of that. It's that simple, and you can argue all you want why it's not possible to do it, but until uploaders see their peers having to pay disastrous fines and go to prison for uploading, it won't diminish, and NOTHING is going to end it entirely. Click to expand No one uploads to tube sites. The content is almost always uploaded by the sites themselves and made to look like someone else is doing it in order to gain DMCA protection. Please someone prove me wrong and tell me they spend their days uploading porn to tubesites and link to their account.... Edited by - pornlaw on 7/24/2010 3:04:32 PM [Link]
UnkwnUsr2 Member 443 Posts 2/05	Posted - Jul 24 2010 : 6:29PM pornlaw wrote: Please someone prove me wrong and tell me they spend their days uploading porn to tubesites and link to their account.... Click to expand Internet piracy of all kinds including porn piracy has existed since the very dawn of the internet. Until just a couple years ago, the idea of openly making any sort of money by encouraging others to commit crime under the guise of free speech would have been looked at as absurd and in opposition to what the primary ideal of earlier piracy among the average pirate was: anonymously "sharing" content for the good of other pirates, period. It depends on some among the pirates to spend money and to give away freely what they paid for. Until just recently, internet piracy has always been based on non-economic principles. This excludes sellers of counterfeit pirated content and situations in which pirates sell pirated goods for money on the streets to people that have no internet connection. More commonly, a non-economic incentive system would be found within the platform used to pirate content, such as forums, chats or other communities. As some content is easier pirated than other content, easier access to rarer content would be a common incentive. Torrents today are an example of non-commercial piracy that requires the average user to voluntarily contribute enough upload for the average user on the other end to download. Without voluntary contribution, the system collapses. Possibly the greatest problem the porn industry is facing is that the vast majority of what could be considered the "internet porn community" is found in online communities that are focused on piracy. Notable exceptions include FreeOnes and Peachy's. This is entirely different from other industries affected by piracy. The majority of software, music and movie discussion takes place in online communities that do not endorse or allow piracy. I believe that this is due to the stronger social acceptance, social influence and wider social spread of this type of content, as well as the more influential and organized industry (in the case of music and movies). You can have a software board as part of a computer/technology board and music/movie boards as part of any board that deals in any way with society, culture etc. Porn, not so much. All of this you can freely discuss on facebook, Myspace and on the BBC homepage. Porn, not so much. These are usually communities founded and controlled by people that want them to stay on the legal side. This intention is incredibly rare among porn communities, because porn is so separate from public life. Then you have imdb which allows user reviews, commenting, discussion etc. You have movies, music and software distributed and perfectly organized by major online retailers such as Amazon whose user reviews have made it what it is today. This does not exist for porn. Porn has never had strong partners like Amazon or the media offering a platform of exchange for customers, but it has never bothered to create one either it seems.* iafd has never so much as bothered to look into that direction. Even AEBN, the world's largest porn pay-per-view site does not allow ANY sort of user contribution, not even reviews, NOTHING. The same goes for clips4sale, the largest niche content service. NO user contribution possible. KINK.com is the SOLE exception that comes to mind when thinking of customers being allowed to voice their opinion publicly in the same place where the content is purchased. I think it is understandable that a LOT of users and potential customers feel a high degree of uncertainty when being confronted with this abysmal state of legal online porn and its attitude towards potential customers, its high degree of secrecy and marketing based on trailers and meaningless 10-second clips. The idea of purchasing any DVD solely based on the cover or trailer seems inane beyond all good and evil. The Japanese put a large number of actual DVD screenshots, evenly distributed through the duration of the film, on the cover, which allows the customer to gauge what the actual content of the product is he is purchasing. The same holds true for the producer web sites, which typically offer many descriptive high resolution screenshots. The largest Japanese adult retailer DMM does the exact same in many cases. AEBN provides 4 tiny screenshots per scene, I'll acknowledge that. Videobox is good. Some sites have 5-star scene rating systems but what's the point if only members can see them? I also suggest that the porn business be given into the hands of the mafia like in Japan, so that the many many widespread internet producers can have a centralized online store/website and customer community that makes it easier for the user to find what he is looking for, review his purchases and pay without credit card too. If you notice, Japanese Google proves incredibly uncooperative when searching for pirated Japanese porn, this is not without reason. Tube sites do not exist in Japan, period. However I will not omit that Japanese copyright enforcement is a lot harsher than in the US which would make operating a tube site a futile endeavor. Capitalism has left American internet porn in a state of persistent chaos and diffusion, the only answer is a powerful association of producers and distributors that offers a new user experience and has enough power to threaten Google with all kinds of things. Web-based producers need to be assimilated, as is the case in Japan. AEBN, iafd, ADT, Wicked, Vivid, EA and EA need to join forces to get the industry back into the hands of those that matter. Japanese porn is to this day founded on DVD-based producers even though Japan has the most advanced internet infrastructure in the world. This should be reason enough to think things over. The absence of any definitive and legal "place-to-go-to" for porn reviews, previews, discussion and organization has given this task into the hands of Google which does not exert any control over the amount of pirated content it might link to, and more often than not favors the pirate's side. ----- *Any I'm not talking about this forum here, I'm talking about a system where user response is next to the product on offer, where it's easy to find, where it's properly described and organized, and where it encompasses a wide range of producers, not just mainstream DVD-based ones. Edited by - unkwnusr2 on 7/24/2010 8:19:34 PM [Link]
duefuss Member Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09	Posted - Jul 24 2010 : 7:24PM TheDreamPolice wrote: duefuss wrote: It's money. Don't kid yourself Click to expand I was responding solely to the issue of motive of uploaders to tube sites, torrents and other outlets of pirated stuff. Certainly it's about money for the sites themselves, and I trust Pornlaw's insight as always. Nevertheless, the motive for individuals who trouble to upload complete movies and scenes from commercial DVD's logically must be something other than money, since how would they be paid for their effort? Of course someone might upload something for an acquaintance who then pays him for it, but this is the only possible economic motive I can think is possible for the indiviual who uploads. [Link]
ClayraBeau Member 659 Posts 2/10	Posted - Jul 24 2010 : 9:29PM pornlaw wrote: duefuss wrote: I don't think economics has anything to do with uploading. I think there are plenty of psychological reasons why people do so: a satisfaction in sticking it to the establishment, doing the forbidden, getting away with it, revenge for some real or imagined wrong (or to sabotage porn out of existence), or something as simple as sharing a vid with a friend through a torrent or tubesite that coincidentally makes it available to everybody. One might imagine uploading as his entre into a group with common interests -- paying his dues, as it were. I imagine there are countless motives for uploading, but clearly money can't be one of them, except of course in the case of a site or company that uploads stuff as advertising, an occurence that seems rather frequent to me. By and large, however, uploading can't really BE explained in economic terms. I've harped on this before, but motive is almost irrelevant in changing behavior. Not that you can't change one's behavior through identifying its cause and altering ones perceptions, but some times a lifetime is insufficient for such a task. Effective behavior modification consists in the very simple and logical process of attaching severe unpleasant consequences to the behavior and making those consequences as certain a result of the behavior as possible. the more you can make these two conditions apply to the unwanted behavior, the faster it will stop. The OP's own story is a perfect example of that. It's that simple, and you can argue all you want why it's not possible to do it, but until uploaders see their peers having to pay disastrous fines and go to prison for uploading, it won't diminish, and NOTHING is going to end it entirely. Click to expand No one uploads to tube sites. The content is almost always uploaded by the sites themselves and made to look like someone else is doing it in order to gain DMCA protection. Please someone prove me wrong and tell me they spend their days uploading porn to tubesites and link to their account.... Edited by - pornlaw on 7/24/2010 3:04:32 PM Click to expand Actually, I HAVE uploaded one video of myself just to get something out there. It was a low-quality homemade video of me masturbating with a big dildo. I uploaded it to one site, Xvideos.com, and within a week it was on more than 50 different tube sites. What is happening is that the tube sites cannibalize one another in order to generate content. Content drives web traffic, and they don't care about quality. Some of them add spam material to the videos after the fact like web addresses for penis pills and other crap. Another thing that seems to happen is that one or two people alone seem to be pirating from a lot of websites and uploading the info to torrent and file sites. Not the big free ones, mind you, like pirate bay, but smaller, membership based services like Rapidshare. From there they spread viraly, with links popping up on message boards. Sometimes they're active for months before they get removed. All I had to do to figure this stuff out was google myself and look at each link to see where I'm at, where I'm being sold and marketed, and how. Here's an example The above link, ironically, is to a site that claims it has a copyright. Interesting that they would bother when they're facilitating piracy. The user KTR seems to go around to all the major porn sites he can, download their material, and put as much of it up for free as he can. Why? Check out this link Just because he can. That's it! He wants to look cool to his own perceived fans. For KTR, it's about internet fame. I also found this: The Prescene Database page This last one is the most disturbing. This is where KTR announces all of his releases, like a bragging board. It's page after page of stuff this guy has stolen and posted across the web to various sites, and they all include a cute picture he made This is where the tube sites are getting a lot of their stuff, and then it ends up going viral to other shady assholes who aren't always in it to make money. Sometimes all they want is to be some kind of internet hero. These aren't people who are looking to make a difference in the way the economy works or how business gets done, because if they were they would be picky. These assholes are stealing EVERYTHING and posting it indiscriminately for people to grab, and mostly for just the hell of it. You can WHOIS a few of the sites, but they all come back to proxy registrants in California and Arizona. I wonder if ICANN has any rules that protect these proxy registrants still if they are informed that the information they are keeping secret is protecting criminal activity? [Link]
pornlaw Member 578 Posts 10/05	Posted - Jul 24 2010 : 11:40PM @UnknwUsr2 -- great post and it sound be reposted on a lot of other boards - especially where the core of the online industry posts.... @Cyra -- I was not talking about producers, my comments were centered towards fans and tubesites... not even torrent sites. What most people dont understand about the tubesites (not sure if it applies to torrents, but I doubt it) is that they make much of their money from buying and selling bandwith, not ads, not upsells, and definitely not memberships or even affiliate dollars. I had a client that spoke with a huge tubesite owner in eastern Europe and he was basically told that the strategy behind the tubesites was that they wanted to break the membership model so that porn was completely free on the internet. The tubesite owners would then control that traffic and make their money off the increased need for bandwith and be able to increase the price. It pennies, but those pennies add up quickly. I had breakfast today with a friend that runs one of the most branded programs on the internet and he has also heard the samething... What I learned about the internet side of the business today was that the some programs are actually being used to launder money. While the mob may be gone from the DVD side of the industry, international organized crime is alive and well on the online side. And yet the DOJ is focused on obscenity prosecutions... [Link]

ClayraBeau Member 659 Posts 2/10	Posted - Jul 24 2010 : 11:51PM You would think this would take precedence... Maybe Rolling Stone needs to do a story on it? If a journo with enough credibility was given all the facts, I can't see this not being a huge story. Everyone knows piracy happens, but most seem to think it's a rebellion against pricing tactics... [Link]
Harri Patel Senior Member #SDNY he's all yours. -- Michael Steele 5110 Posts 3/03	Posted - Jul 25 2010 : 12:07AM pornlaw wrote: I had a client that spoke with a huge tubesite owner in eastern Europe and he was basically told that the strategy behind the tubesites was that they wanted to break the membership model so that porn was completely free on the internet. The tubesite owners would then control that traffic and make their money off the increased need for bandwith and be able to increase the price. Click to expand I don't undestand. Who would be buying the bandwidth, and why, if it becomes impossible to sell anything? [Link]
pornlaw Member 578 Posts 10/05	Posted - Jul 25 2010 : 2:27AM ClayraBeau wrote: You would think this would take precedence... Maybe Rolling Stone needs to do a story on it? If a journo with enough credibility was given all the facts, I can't see this not being a huge story. Everyone knows piracy happens, but most seem to think it's a rebellion against pricing tactics... Click to expand I dont know if this is true in regards to mainstream piracy. From what I have been told this applies to the porn tubesites. As for Harri's question... if you run a tubesite your bandwith bill each month could be $100,000 to millions per month. If you need that much bandwith you can get huge discounts when you buy in bulk, you then resell what you dont use to others for a mark-up, off setting your costs and making money. [Link]
just_me Member 133 Posts 4/09	Posted - Jul 25 2010 : 2:42AM Bill wrote: It's taken this long because, by watermarking their DVD's they are screwing over the people who actually pay for the discs. It's like a car dealer spray painting graffiti on their cars to keep people from stealing them. Click to expand I know what you're getting at, but the fact that all cars on a dealer's lot do in fact have the brand name & logo on the exterior in multiple places... And besides, as someone who buys 95% website subscriptions over dvds, and 99% of those have watermarks, if created properly you'd be surprised how you don't even notice the watermark at all after the first minute in to the scene. Edited by - just_me on 7/25/2010 2:49:10 AM [Link]
x3094 Deactivated User 46 Posts 5/09	Posted - Jul 26 2010 : 12:49PM NewRomancer wrote: The best way to deal with TubeSites is to make a product that people WANT to buy... Do that, and most people WILL buy your product and the few people who do get it for free won't matter a tinkers-cuss to you. Click to expand They're not going to do that. They think it's easier to try and sue their way out of the problem as opposed to changing their business model. [Link]
UnkwnUsr2 Member 443 Posts 2/05	Posted - Jul 26 2010 : 2:59PM x3094 wrote: They're not going to do that. They think it's easier to try and sue their way out of the problem as opposed to changing their business model. Click to expand It has nothing to do with a lack of products worth purchasing. The fact is that, no matter how good your product is, piracy can always provide the exact same product for free, and without requiring a credit card or filling out a form, no exceptions. The only alternative is stopping the commercial sale of music, films and photographs which isn't a "business model", it's the death of several industries. There is no alternative "business model" for making money with copied data. It's a modern myth. Japan has very tight and effective copyright laws, and piracy requires a lot more technical expertise. They've still locked up a whole bunch of people for up- and downloading copyrighted content. Japanese piracy is almost entirely anonymous, even the software used is created by anonymous people, it's all peer-to-peer. They don't use tube sites, file hosters or torrents, they use anonymous file sharing systems with no central servers and a lot of obfuscation of data. For a copyright holder, it's virtually impossible to do anything, however the authorities actually enforce the law. This means that the producers don't have to deal with the bullshit and can produce their content, and the authorities do what they're there for. They've had their thumb on this issue from the very start and it helped. Especially the adult industry doesn't even bother to sell content outside of Japan because it's a waste of time when only one in a hundred potential Western customers buys it instead of pirating it. SIX years ago already, the author of a very popular p2p program was arrested for conspiracy to commit copyright infringement and mass-assisting copyright violation. Piracy is much less of a problem in Japan, and contrary to what some lunatics claim, enforcing copyright laws does not equal the government having full surveillance or control over the internet, just as having cops patrolling an area does not mean they are communist spies trying to find political dissidents. It's a moot point anyway because Uncle Sam does already have full surveillance and control over the internet. In the US and Europe, you can just start a business based on piracy, spam it all over the web, have your name plastered everywhere, invite friends and family to commit copyright violations and there's nothing anyone could do against it, except send a barrage of lawyers, all of which want to be paid, only to have it reappear a million times over the next day. Last time I checked, it's usually not the duty of the aggrieved party to enforce the law. Edited by - unkwnusr2 on 7/26/2010 3:47:10 PM [Link]
NewRomancer Deactivated User under THEIR avatar 738 Posts 7/08	Posted - Jul 27 2010 : 5:23AM UnkwnUsr2 wrote: It has nothing to do with a lack of products worth purchasing. Click to expand Oh yes it does... 99.99% of commercial porn is NOT worth me paying for it... And about the only way I find the stuff I do pay for is by following reviews/recommendations and torrenting/tubing them first... I'm not wasting my money on porn I don't like. Full stop. [Link]
Schmse Senior Member I'm not here, this isn't happening! 2571 Posts 6/04	Posted - Jul 27 2010 : 5:41AM NewRomancer wrote: Oh yes it does... 99.99% of commercial porn is NOT worth me paying for it... And about the only way I find the stuff I do pay for is by following reviews/recommendations and torrenting/tubing them first... I'm not wasting my money on porn I don't like. Full stop. Click to expand Well said. [Link]
Schmse Senior Member I'm not here, this isn't happening! 2571 Posts 6/04	Posted - Jul 27 2010 : 6:05AM The problem when buying an american porn title is following: 1st: If you like one girl in particular, you have to buy a movie with 4,5 other girls. Mostly I just want to see one particular girl. But I have to pay for all of them. In JAV you mostly pay for the girl you wanna see. So it's one girl in various scenes instead of various girls doing all the same procedures. 2nd: Misleading titles. I just hate it that latinas are advertised as asians, and in an all-anal movie the covergirl doesn't do anal. And so on. 3rd: Too few fetish movies. The set up is always the same. Chico Wang was different. rocco too. But mostly it's lingerie, couch, fuck. and so on... So why should someone buy a DVD, when he can download his favourite girl's scene for free. To support this uninspiring stuff gain and again? [Link]
shank Member 119 Posts 2/09	Posted - Jul 27 2010 : 6:42AM Hirsch complains of declining DVD sales when the classy DVD's cost as much as a mainstream movie and has to be viewed streaming or purchased by post which is a hassle (i.e no instant gratification which is a feature of porn watchers). Anyway at the end of the day the average porn viewer simply sees such DVD as a collection of 4 or 5 sex scenes, of which he may just like 1 and fast forward all others. Is there any other business model thay can adopt? I always download from subscription websites such as realitykings & brazzers as I feel this is affordable and worth the cost. However there seems to be a vast sea of potential porn consumers outside USA and Europe who have their credit cards rejected even if they wanted to pay the modest fees of some sites & perhaps that is one main source of piracy and support for tube sites. [Link]
UnkwnUsr2 Member 443 Posts 2/05	Posted - Jul 27 2010 : 6:46AM NewRomancer wrote: Oh yes it does... 99.99% of commercial porn is NOT worth me paying for it... And about the only way I find the stuff I do pay for is by following reviews/recommendations and torrenting/tubing them first... I'm not wasting my money on porn I don't like. Full stop. Click to expand Schmse wrote: The problem when buying an american porn title is following: Click to expand No matter how many times you repeat the magic mantra of the "adapting" industry producing "better" products, it doesn't change anything about the fact that people pirate porn because they like it and often think it is fucking fantastic. It's not like they are going through hundreds of titles and never find anything they like. They share the content specifically because they think it's good. For anyone who's already downloaded something, it's an even bigger waste of money to then pay for it. Many of the more popular videos get millions of hits, they all wouldn't pay for it if it was indefinitely inaccessible? Quite frankly, if "99,99%" of porn does not appeal to you, then you're just an uninformed customer is all. Contrary to popular belief it's not just "There's a babysitter in my daughter #84" that gets pirated, it is virtually every scene that gets released on every pay site and every DVD that gets released in any country. You people keep babbling about how you don't like generic hardcore DVD XY when the internet gets FLOODED with sites that appeal to specific preferences and when every notable girl has her own page with dozens of scenes of just her. It's not 2001 anymore, you have to come up with better arguments than "HURP DURR I don't like Vivid DVDs because they are too fake, therefore the entire industry is shit". Then there's the fact that pirated scene B might compete with legit scene A (and therefore hurt several producers, not just the producer of scene B), and the fact that pirated scene X by producer Y might be of direct interest to the customer who previously purchased scene H by producer Y. You don't need to watch an entire scene before you can decide whether or not to buy it, that is also a myth. Edited by - unkwnusr2 on 7/27/2010 7:00:55 AM [Link]
Schmse Senior Member I'm not here, this isn't happening! 2571 Posts 6/04	Posted - Jul 27 2010 : 7:06AM UnkwnUsr2 wrote: No matter how many times you repeat the magic mantra of the "adapting" industry producing "better" products, it doesn't change anything about the fact that people pirate porn because they like it and often think it is fucking fantastic. It's not like they are going through hundreds of titles and never find anything they like. They share the content specifically because they think it's good. For anyone who's already downloaded something, it's an even bigger waste of money to then pay for it. Many of the more popular videos get millions of hits, they all wouldn't pay for it if it was indefinitely inaccessible? Click to expand I would ay for porn. But why should I pay for an entire DVD to watch Ms XY first anal scene? I have to buy a movie with 5 other girls whose stretched out assholes I don't wanna see anymore. [Link]
duefuss Member Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09	Posted - Jul 27 2010 : 8:55AM NewRomancer wrote: UnkwnUsr2 wrote: It has nothing to do with a lack of products worth purchasing. Click to expand Oh yes it does... 99.99% of commercial porn is NOT worth me paying for it... And about the only way I find the stuff I do pay for is by following reviews/recommendations and torrenting/tubing them first... I'm not wasting my money on porn I don't like. Full stop. Click to expand So, you find a scene from a recent release on a tube site that you like. You say you will then go to the store or online and buy the complete feature on DVD without looking around to see if you can get the movie from a torrent or elsewhere for nothing. If you do, you will become a member of a very small group of people that will not take something for nothing when they can get it. This wouldn't even be a subject of discussion if you were not a small and shrinking exception to the norm. [Link]
charn fubar 2880 Posts 12/09	Posted - Jul 27 2010 : 10:42AM Watermarks would be useful to me when I transfer large quantities of porn to other media and throw out the original copies and their oversized boxes, such as tape to dvd and dvd to harddrive. Intermittent watermarks look like popup ads. Companies that do watermarks need to consider the space they occupy and plan their camerawork to accommodate. [Link]
Mike Quasar Zero Tolerance Reluctant pornographer 1765 Posts 7/01	Posted - Jul 27 2010 : 11:25AM NewRomancer wrote: UnkwnUsr2 wrote: It has nothing to do with a lack of products worth purchasing. Click to expand Oh yes it does... 99.99% of commercial porn is NOT worth me paying for it... And about the only way I find the stuff I do pay for is by following reviews/recommendations and torrenting/tubing them first... I'm not wasting my money on porn I don't like. Full stop. Click to expand You're about to discover that 100% of porn is not worth you paying for because there will be no new porn in 5 years other than amateur content and celebrity sex tapes. There is no money to be made from producing content anymore none, zero. No matter how creative, innovative and brilliant a content producer may be, they need to get paid for their work. All those "rich pornographers" won't keep pouring money into something with no return. The 'new' industry is a group of content thieves up-selling bandwidth and hoping you'll buy subscriptions to dating sites filled with girls who don't exist and wouldn't fuck you if they did. [Link]
Ordell Deactivated User 1042 Posts 6/05	Posted - Jul 27 2010 : 11:40AM How about hiring a bunch of hackers to DDoS the fuck out of them until their ISPs throw them off? [Link]