In this business - is still possible to make it ?

Author	Post
readyman Member 10 Posts 10/07	Posted - Oct 5 2007 : 8:01AM The porn business is so saturated that it seems that some one like me "ordinary guy" have not chance to make it. OK put that i want to start to shoot porn videos let say in two or three weeks, because you need some time to set up things like, rise some money - get some equipment - to book some models - find a location studio. considering all this how much shall i need ? Let say between $10.000 $15.000 is this enough to start off? Also i will have to get in contact with a distributor and someone to print the DVD from the master and this could bring costs up. any way in this days is it still plausible for someone to consider porn a way to make good money? Ciao [Link]
picman Senior Member Nothing says I love you so much as a tongue in the ass. 2884 Posts 1/03	Posted - Oct 5 2007 : 9:04AM If you're as unprepared as you sound like you are, you'd have a hard time just booking talent, and zero expectation of finding a distributor for your finished work. Try to get work as a PA on real porn shoots just to see what it takes, then all your questions may be answered for you. [Link]
johnny brazil Member 67 Posts 9/07	Posted - Oct 5 2007 : 9:41AM picman wrote: Try to get work as a PA on real porn shoots just to see what it takes, then all your questions may be answered for you. Click to expand yeah but be careful man because my bro got a job holding the boom mic on a porn shoot and he thought it was the coolest job in the world until he had to wear headphones so he could monitor the sound. he said the moaning and screaming drove him totally insane and that it was the "hardest" job he'd ever done! [Link]
sickguy Deactivated User I'm unofficially Beauty Dior's #1 Fan 736 Posts 9/06	Posted - Oct 5 2007 : 10:48AM I used to think that working on a porn shoot would be the coolest job ever. Be it actor, boom mic guy, whatever... Then one day I realized I had my head up my ass. If it was all females maybe I would like it. The thought of filming some other guy's dick for 3 hours would make me feel like a bit of a homosexual. Even as a male performer...watching is one thing...but when those lights go on and so many other people watching you, I'm sure it's a whole new ball game. Personally I don't think it's all it's cracked up to be. Obviously we all fantasize about these women and I'm sure if you could be with them in privacy, it would be great..but when the sex is as staged as it is in porn...I'm sure it's not as fun. I know some of the male performers are still having a great time but it can't be as fun, when you have someone else saying "cut". "This position isn't working. Let's try..." IMHO Didn't mean to derail the topic. Edited by - sickguy on 10/5/2007 10:48:46 AM [Link]
conquistador Deactivated User Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03	Posted - Oct 5 2007 : 11:47AM You should pull up some old topics on this board as well as doing some business research elsewhere. I agree with the advice that you should attempt to work peripherally on a porn set first. You may discover it is not for you without blowing 15,000$. Good Luck and keep us posted. Also remember that releasing DVDs is not the only business model porn takes. Some content is never released on DVD at all and is used only on pay porn sites. Consider your location as well. You didn't make clear where you wanted to shoot but in many (actually most) places in North America the public authorities would not approve of your work. What is going to be special about your product? Can the market even support another generic studio? Do you have any special interests or themes in mind that are not thoroughly covered in the existing market? From reading adult boards I think you might find the porn consumer has the same kind of brand loyalty going on as any other consumer. Folks buy stuff from studios who have treated them well in the past, consumers know what they want and through feedback studios already cater to them. I hope 2 or 3 weeks is ample time to conduct the necessary research. EDIT: typo. Edited by - conquistador on 10/5/2007 11:50:00 AM [Link]

Tinaka Member 953 Posts 8/03	Posted - Oct 5 2007 : 12:43PM Better off with a website. Check out conysgirls for how feeble a porn site can be. [Link]
Jholmes Member 150 Posts 4/07	Posted - Oct 5 2007 : 4:18PM The problems I have been hearing is that Porn is superfragmented and there are a million different categories like Milf, toe lickers, tug jobs, interracial, midgets etc :) Everybody has their own kink Also DVDs may be dieing as a lot of new stuff is on the internet on Pay by the minute sites so 1st you need to see what you want to specialize in I think if you do films for couples then DVDs may be safe bcus watching porn on a laptop is not exactly romantic or conducive to getting a chick in the mood whereas watching a DVD on TV is a lot better for couples [Link]
Hardware All-Star Member Your other left 14595 Posts 3/02	Posted - Oct 5 2007 : 5:08PM I doubt that DVD's are dying. However, it is certainly less of a risk for an unknown to put up a scene on a web page. Getting DVD's packaged and produced costs real money, not to mention having to give the distributors a cut, and waiting for said distributors to actually pay you for what they sold can test your monetary reserves. You did plan on having monetary reserves, didn't you? [Link]
Lance Member My Life Sucks 386 Posts 4/05	Posted - Oct 5 2007 : 10:58PM Hardware wrote: You did plan on having monetary reserves, didn't you? Click to expand All the more reason why internet can be so seductive. (CAN be far lower overhead and start-up costs, but not always depending on how you do it.) Though the internet is very saturated, and you need to have a hook and solid marketing plan, or you can expect to pour thousands down the drain on top of your content costs. www.makemoneyfucking.com [Link]
Mike Quasar Zero Tolerance Reluctant pornographer 1765 Posts 7/01	Posted - Oct 5 2007 : 11:46PM Think of it in terms of breaking into the "real" movie business. Is it possible to finance a low budget indie film and have a major studio pick it up without having any connections whatsoever? Yes, but extremely unlikely even if it's utterly brilliant. Unfortunately porn is completely disposable entertainment and a captivating and clever storyline doesn't really enter into the equation so you're pretty much left simply shooting people fucking. So what is it that you would do different than every other pornographer who shoots the same girls at the same locations every single day in porn valley? If the answer to that question is "nothing", how can you compete with the established players in the game and make any real money? 25 years ago people were fighting for slices of the porn pie, then porn exploded and they started fighting over crumbs. Now they're fighting for the tin plate that the pie came in so that they can take it to a recycling center and make 5 cents. Yes it's possible to make good money in porn but it gets harder every year and part of the problem is that everyone wants to try to make good money in porn. [Link]
Porn Scout Deactivated User 3735 Posts 10/02	Posted - Oct 6 2007 : 6:04AM Back in 2001-2002, it might have made more sense for a reasonably informed outsider with good business sense to try and enter the porn business. Since then, so many studios have popped up that it doesn't make sense to do that anymore. [Link]
Kensington Chapp Senior Citizen Mine is the biggest. 610 Posts 7/07	Posted - Oct 6 2007 : 8:27AM ...unless a new studio makes decent porn (a contradiction of terms). Booking talent is a prob. I know it's porn, how reputable do you have to be? Imagine you were a porno-chick trying to make yourself famous. Would you waste time with some nobody producer making his first DVD? I think not. However, all women have their price; the more you up the fee, the more likely you'll book a known performer. At least then fanboys will buy your crap even if it is, well, crap. Edited by - kensington chapp on 10/6/2007 8:30:12 AM [Link]
Porn Scout Deactivated User 3735 Posts 10/02	Posted - Oct 6 2007 : 3:29PM I don't think booking talent would really be a problem, or not much of one anyway. There are hundreds of porn girls out there looking for paydays. And if you can actually make a good product (doubtful), I don't think distribution would be a problem either. No, I think the problem is, quite simply, how do make money with all the competition out there? It's very, very tough, even if you have an okay product, to make it stand out to the consumer. [Link]
Knocko Member 533 Posts 5/07	Posted - Oct 7 2007 : 6:33AM well u got to offer something no one else is.....look at joanna angel. her burning angel site & products are successful because she tapped into a market and offered a look & style that no one else was.....look at the bangbros guys, they were just another porn site until they really focused on their scenarios and started the "reality style" porn craze [Link]
realtip Deactivated User 2301 Posts 6/04	Posted - Oct 7 2007 : 6:51AM I would imagine that getting started in the porno business is no different than starting any other type of business. Of course, you will need capital to get things up and rolling, such as paying for equipment, talent, and various other expenses. Frankly, I think the beginning stages of making your product, and making it known are likely to be the most difficult. Some have expressed concerns over competition and how saturated the market is. I wouldn't see that as a problem. Yes, there are numerous other pornographers, many of whom are already established and well-known, that your product will have to compete against. But if you look at it, most of them are all basically doing the same thing. I don't want to work in porn, but if I were going to get into the porn game, I would focus on creating something that no one else is doing, which really isn't that difficult to do, as creativity appears to be lacking. It's just like if you live in a town that has 1,000 donut shops, but they all only sell glazed. If you open another donut shop, but sell glazed along with chocolate, jelly, and other varieties, then you've just given the other thousand shops some strong competition. That's what porn seems to have become- Everybody wants to do it, but nobody's doing anything different or that stands out from the crowd. If you think about some of the most well-known pornographers around (Rocco, Jules, Max, Khan, etc.) they all made their names by creating something that no one else was doing at the time. If you can do that, there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to do alright in porn. [Link]

Sean Renaud Member 181 Posts 7/07	Posted - Oct 7 2007 : 3:33PM I think everybody has a dream of one day putting out a product. I agree with most of what has been said here but I think one very important thing hasn't been said that should be self evident. Watch porn. What is it that you like? I think that the numerous films that are dedicated to a single act like toe sucking, fat chicks or midgets (all of which I'm sure make enough money to be worth while. Which obviously is/will be my goal. You don't need to release the New Devil in Miss Jones or Pirates. I'm sure that Tea bags and Tossed Salads made enough money to pay the bills and a little something extra.) So stop thinking that you are a freak and start thinking that there are probably other people out there just like you who think, gee wouldn't it be nice if I could find a porn with X? Since I may never get to make my own porn I don't mind throwing out what my basic plan is, worse case scenario somebody steals it and I get good porn. Best case somebody thinks I'm brilliant and agrees to fund me, either way (or anything in between) I'll spill. Nothing against blondes (many of my favorites are blonde) but there are enough girls of other looks that unless the point is Blonds or you are matching up legends like Janine vs Jenna or Hillary Scott vs Kelly Wells there is no reason to have two blonds in one film and no excuse for having 3+ (Unless we are doing threesomes or something). I would make sure to try and have five different looking girls a blonde, a black, an asian, a redhead, a latino would probably be my normal set up but the peices are interchangable. Next I know I can't be the only person who is tired of cookie cutter porn. The blow job kinda sorta has to come first but from there you'll often see five scenes where it goes cowgirl, reverse cowgirl, doggy, anal if it's gonna happen, cowgirl. I'm sorry that just doesn't work for me, instead of each scene having a use instead you just pick which girl is "best" and exclude all the others because they are doing the same thing. I understand the need for themes but when you put out a random(ish) title like Obscene Behavior, you could have done so much better than just foot and rim jobs. I want one scene to be a lot of gagging, then the next one to be a girl cum farting into another girls mouth, followed with a rough gangbang like a Violation of, or a Max Hardcore scene. The idea here is to get five DIFFERENT scenes on one film. I have a few other random ideas floating around but that covers the basics. Bottom line is I want to make porn that I want to watch and I'm sure that there are other people who think exactly what I think. Also I figure with the porn that I've seen on the market getting a distributer can't be THAT hard. [Link]
Porn Scout Deactivated User 3735 Posts 10/02	Posted - Oct 7 2007 : 4:22PM ^ Interesting idea. You might have some trouble getting so many different types of girls that are also willing to do all the things you want them to do, but I like the idea of mixing it up more. A lot of Evil Angel titles mix things up quite a bit, although I don't know any where the director was quite so particular about bringing in different "types" of girls to the same extent you are talking about. [Link]
Leeroy Magic Member 178 Posts 6/07	Posted - Oct 7 2007 : 9:07PM I plan on making an adult film sometime this year or next. The biggest problem I see with entering the adult business is piracy. The second problem is adult video rentals. The third is oversaturation. If you put out a DVD you have to worry about it getting pirated. Then you have to worry about the market shift in buying to renting. Because why buy a DVD for $20 when you can rent 5 or more dvds for the same price? Then you have market oversaturation where everyone wants the hot new DVD with their favorite stars. Right now there are a TON of DVDs I want to see. I don't have the time or money to get them all so I have to be really selective. I still haven't even seen Fashionistas 1. I try to rent what I can and from there I start buying my top choices. If I know my budget is for 5 DVDs, I won't want to waste a pick on some unknown unreliable new startup DVD because I've been burned before by bad studios. So your first obstacle is establishing yourself as being a decent studio. And that is going to require a few releases. That's why most new studios I've seen start off by creating a series. Look at most adult studios and you will notice their empires are built on a series or two. There are a few benefits to a series. One is if someone sees number 4 in the series and likes it, they are more likely to go back and get 1, 2 and 3. I personally do it all the time. One series I currently follow is POV Fantasy. I'll buy anything released in the series and currently own all releases. So I think that is the best way to start. Be prepared to not make any real money until after your 2nd/3rd or 4th DVD. After you get one series going, work on starting another, then another. That's really the best approach. And honestly I would say you have to really really like porn. If you are just showing up to make money then you probably won't. My personal approach is sure I'd like to make money with it but the main reason I'd like to get into making adult films is I think I can do it better. I have ideas and plans to make a better product than a lot of the rest and from that I feel confident enough that I could stand out. I highly recommend trying to sign up as a reviewer on AdultDVDTalk. You'll get to select DVDs to review. It's a great way to learn more about what you like and dislike in porn. Most of the time when you watch a porno you don't like, you don't really stop and evaluate why you don't like it. I'd say it's almost like getting your masters degree in pornography. Because once you start filming you'll need ideas and you'll need to know what works for you and what doesn't work. After you've seen a few 100 or thousand pornos, suddenly you think more like a pornagrapher. It becomes an art. [Link]
conquistador Deactivated User Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03	Posted - Oct 7 2007 : 9:17PM Please keep us updated about your progress (or lack thereof). I would be interested in reading about the trials and tribulations of a first time adult video maker trying to make it in the market. All of the points that have been mentioned may make sense but only if you try will you see if any of them are realistic. Thanks. EDIT: Left out a word. Edited by - conquistador on 10/7/2007 9:18:09 PM [Link]
Mike Quasar Zero Tolerance Reluctant pornographer 1765 Posts 7/01	Posted - Oct 7 2007 : 9:40PM "Be prepared to not make any real money until after your 2nd/3rd or 4th DVD" I hate to disappoint you but you should be prepared to not make any real money your first YEAR in business and then be prepared to make very little money in your second year. You won't even collect all the money for your first DVD for 6 months. [Link]
conquistador Deactivated User Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03	Posted - Oct 7 2007 : 9:51PM For Mike Quasar: Were you a CA based person to begin with when you got into cameras or did you have to move? And if you relocated to California what sort of cost did it incur? EDIT: I am assuming you were interested in cameras before you became an adult camera man. I don't know though. Edited by - conquistador on 10/7/2007 9:53:32 PM [Link]
justalurker Member 241 Posts 8/03	Posted - Oct 7 2007 : 10:12PM Let's not forget, it's a business, general rule of thumb is it's five years for any business to be even concidered viable. The only times these might skew the trend is when you get lucky and get in on a leading edge of a bubble. And if you want to do that in porn start thinking beyond the internets. [Link]
Mike Quasar Zero Tolerance Reluctant pornographer 1765 Posts 7/01	Posted - Oct 7 2007 : 10:43PM @conquistador It's a verrrrrrrry long story but to summarize I moved from Toronto, lived in abject poverty, got into porn entirely by accident and somehow ended up making a career out if it. I had absolutely no knowledge of cameras but after a short time in the biz I discovered that most of the people shooting didn't either :) mod: extraneous quote removed Edited by - hardware on 10/8/2007 8:13:08 AM [Link]
conquistador Deactivated User Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03	Posted - Oct 7 2007 : 10:45PM I live in Toronto.... [Link]
Mike Quasar Zero Tolerance Reluctant pornographer 1765 Posts 7/01	Posted - Oct 7 2007 : 11:49PM conquistador wrote: I live in Toronto.... Click to expand Well if I can do it....... ;) P.S. The leafs won their season opener!! Soon they'll start to suck again though. Happens every year. P.P.S Happy canadian thanksgiving. Edited by - mike quasar on 10/7/2007 11:51:02 PM [Link]

Sean Renaud Member 181 Posts 7/07	Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 2:31AM 1. I figure that since I only need one girl for each act it shouldn't be too hard. The hard part is getting the difference and mixing it up. I might be wrong but I would imagine that porn is an industry where you could might actually make money your first year. Correct me if I'm wrong here. Average porn girl makes what between 500-1500 per scene. 2k is pretty obscene unless they are really well known and guys practically work for free but for the sake of argument I'm going to put them at 1000 dollars. So at six scenes of b/g loving you've spend 15k. 2.5x6. Assuming you need to buy your camera(s) you could potentially rack up say another 5k (I think less but honestly I don't know) You then need to handle odds and ends, catering, renting a location and stuff that I'm not thinking of. Once again this number might be low but I'm guessing that can't possibly top another 5k. So the entire film cost you 25,000 dollars and that seems a little high. Now depending on your bussiness model and pricing we'll say 12.00 per which is kind of the low end of pricing. Hell it's damn near bargain bin. You need to sell just over two thousand copies (2083 to be precise) to make up those costs. I would be willing to bet that in a world where they are releasing literally dozens of movies every month (week) there HAS to be atleast 2000 people in the States that literally buy everything that comes out or would be willing to take a chance if you had a pretty covergirl and a good title. That of course doesn't even factor in whatever you can rake in on some crappy website selling the scenes individually or stills. Maybe I'm completely off base here but I think that when they say that you shouldn't expect your bussiness to make money off the bat they are talking your normal bussiness. [Link]
Jholmes Member 150 Posts 4/07	Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 9:44AM Mike Quasar wrote: "Be prepared to not make any real money until after your 2nd/3rd or 4th DVD" I hate to disappoint you but you should be prepared to not make any real money your first YEAR in business and then be prepared to make very little money in your second year. You won't even collect all the money for your first DVD for 6 months. Click to expand Looks like a good index fund is the way to go even though its nowhere near as sexy :) [Link]
sickguy Deactivated User I'm unofficially Beauty Dior's #1 Fan 736 Posts 9/06	Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 10:23AM conquistador wrote: I live in Toronto.... Click to expand + 1 [Link]
Mike Quasar Zero Tolerance Reluctant pornographer 1765 Posts 7/01	Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 10:36AM Maybe I'm completely off base here but I think that when they say that you shouldn't expect your bussiness to make money off the bat they are talking your normal bussiness. Click to expand Will you have an office? A salesperson? A telephone? A warehouse? An accountant? A shipping department? A good lawyer on retainer? None of these things are free. How will you pay for them when, using your business model, you've only made your money back with virtually no profit on one DVD. [Link]
mrbluelouboyle All-Star Member mrbluelouboyle and Alexis Tae 1334 Posts 12/03	Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 11:10AM I've read a statistic that only one out of every ten new businesses succeeds. 1 out of 10 isn't the greatest of odds. But if it's something you have a great desire to do, and possibly throwing money into it, without ever recieving any money back...then go for it. [Link]
Leeroy Magic Member 178 Posts 6/07	Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 1:24PM Well it was estimated in another thread that most DVDs don't sell more than 4,000 copies, even if they are fairly popular and backed by a big name adult studio. [Link]
Sean Renaud Member 181 Posts 7/07	Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 2:19PM 4000 seems a bit low to me, but I admit I don't know I'm just guessing at that number. I don't think you would need an office though, you should be able to handle paperwork from your home. Least I don't see why not (I already have an office anyway but we are speaking hypothetically.) The same goes for a phone number or a warehouse. DVD's aren't THAT big I'm sure you could store 4k in a corner of your garage and literally forget about them if need be. I would again expect to be my own salesperson and shipper, until/unless I got to a point where I was shipping enough volume that it made sense to hire somebody for these things. I hadn't given any real thought to an accountant though which might end up being a serious snag. It is true that using my initial model all you did was make your investment back (which if I'm not mistaken by normal bussiness standards is damned impressive for your initial project) but my point is it doesn't seem that hard on paper, so I figure one of two things. 1. There is something I'm completely overlooking here which might just be the accountant and other hidden costs. 2. That's why there is so much crap porn out there. [Link]
Drew Black broken crankshaft 8011 Posts 9/99	Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 2:20PM Related topics: How well do DVDs sell? So you wanna start a porn company [Link]
Leeroy Magic Member 178 Posts 6/07	Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 2:24PM Sean Renaud wrote: 4000 seems a bit low to me, but I admit I don't know I'm just guessing at that number. Click to expand I wish ADT had an adult film maker subforum. Do you think there is enough interest on here for one? Not sure. Either way, yeah that 4000 number seems low but selling 4,000 units of anything has to be a difficult process. [Link]
Sean Renaud Member 181 Posts 7/07	Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 2:37PM I think there is enough interest to rate a subforum somewhere. I figure when it comes to DVD's of this nature 4k can't be that hard once you've gotten a few connections. Now I don't now how hard it is to get something like your DVD put on the top of this forum, or front page of Adult Video Universe. I suppose the truth about the bottom line is that you'll never know until/unless you try but between people who own nearly everything, and then there have got to be a number of guys who try to support the new guy. It would be interesting to be able to see how many copies the average porn DVD sells just to have an idea as to what to expect. [Link]

Leeroy Magic Member 178 Posts 6/07	Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 2:40PM Sean Renaud wrote: The idea here is to get five DIFFERENT scenes on one film. Click to expand I agree with you about getting away from cookie cutter porn, but I disagree with your idea of having five different scenes on one film. I think most consumers want consistency in their porn. Having too much variety allows you to please more people but a lot less versus pleasing a select group a lot more. There is actually a good amount of porn out there with that outline. They shoot the first scene with a white girl, then an asian, then a black girl, then a blonde and a brunette. I don't really see how that is any different. [Link]
conquistador Deactivated User Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03	Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 2:48PM It may be helpful to let you know how a downtown Toronto porn shop classified DVDs so customers could find them. 5 totally different scenes would be confusing. Black Interracial (any mixed race couplings) Asian Anal Lesbian Bi Gay Tranny Feature/couples friendly Amateur (dirty debs. up and cummers, etc.) Young Girls Mature Big Breasts Private (for some reason is a category/style by itself) Bizarre (hermaphrodites and midgets and fat people and such) And if someone is particularly well known there might be a Jenna Jameson or Rocco Siffredi or Seymore Butts section. If someone approached me and asked about XXX type of film I would tell them to check XXX section. EDIT: Many online retailers have a better breakdown but in brick and mortar shops they have to be set up in a simplified both to help employees and customers. Edited by - conquistador on 10/8/2007 2:50:38 PM Edited by - conquistador on 10/8/2007 2:51:35 PM [Link]
Sean Renaud Member 181 Posts 7/07	Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 6:09PM There are films that have different looking girls, but it doesn't seem to be the majority. Like I said all to often we have three blondes, a brunette and a wild card girl. You guys might be right that people want some kind of consistancy, but I think if you told them in advance there wouldn't be any most wouldn't be upset. That said that same consistancy is what makes so much porn boring. But maybe I stand alone on this one. [Link]
Leeroy Magic Member 178 Posts 6/07	Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 7:08PM @Sean Renaud You're right, if you can somehow create a theme out of it, it might do well. But I've seen so much porn with mixed stuff like that, it doesn't even seem like a theme to me. mod: extraneous quote removed Edited by - hardware on 10/9/2007 8:00:23 AM [Link]
Sean Renaud Member 181 Posts 7/07	Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 7:26PM Thanks for the advice on trying to find a theme for it even if I go out of my way to make certain the scenes aren't to similar. Hell maybe that can be the theme. [Link]
conquistador Deactivated User Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03	Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 7:34PM Sean Renaud wrote: You guys might be right that people want some kind of consistancy, but I think if you told them in advance there wouldn't be any most wouldn't be upset. That said that same consistancy is what makes so much porn boring. Click to expand I am not saying that you need a category. All I was getting at is that on the retail level, if you have something that defies categorization you also might be missing out on a place on a store's shelves. I would never order product that couldn't be easily identified by customers. I shouldn't have to tell a shopper anything in advance. They should be able to make their own decisions. Product that needs to be explained in advance is a bad move and a waste of employee and customer time. EDIT: Customers hate feeling cheated or mislead. While working at an adult shop I had many customers return DVDs because they were somehow misleading. The girl on the cover wasn't really in it, contained no anal scenes but customer thought it would, whatever. Genre bending is not well received by many porn fans. Some people are happy to see something new. But most buy an anal movie because they want to see anal sex, or a black movie because they want to see black performers etc. I am not trying to say you have a bad idea. What I am trying to say is look at how porn is marketed, it doesn't fit into easy to classify categories by accident. Edited by - conquistador on 10/8/2007 7:42:12 PM [Link]
Sean Renaud Member 181 Posts 7/07	Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 9:32PM Sorry I misunderstood your intent. I know that feeling as well of being pissed off that this porn had nothing but anal shots on the cover but didn't really have much anal. That said it seems that there is a fair share of porn that is fairly poorly defined, or that I should be able to piggy bag onto one genre or another. Thank you for giving me something to think about as far as how to market. I guess I should start by asking would you think that there is a category you could put it under? What do we put general porn under? You know stuff labeled Nasty Girls 11? [Link]
conquistador Deactivated User Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03	Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 9:45PM What does Nasty Girls 11 show on the box art. Or better yet, what did the catalog I ordered it from or the distributer who sent it to me say about it. The distributors who I would order titles from had them categorized in much the same was as my list. If gay movies were selling well I would say to give me 1 of everything they had at a certain price range. Ordering porn for a retail store is not really that advanced. If you go into a porn store yo know why you are there and what you want. Many customers prefer to have little or no interaction with employees. And often aren't even looking for specific titles, they just go with whatever catches their eye. You might want to a search for for a topic that talked about why straight porn should be more inclusive of male-male sex. The idea was discussed in a way that it should sort of be slipped into otherwise "straight" movies. This kind of genre bending did not go over well. Also it is not at all unusual for someone to rent or buy several porn titles at the same time. So, I wouldn't be able to classify your movie, not would I attempt to put it in the store where I worked if I didn't know what it was. I am not trying to discourage you, just letting you know about some of the things I noticed while putting in time in the retail world. [Link]
Roxanne Hall Member myspace.com/roxannehallxxx 58 Posts 2/04	Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 10:16PM I would like to ask....does the box cover have a big part of the movie? If so what do you look for? [Link]
ragingbull Deactivated User 404 Posts 5/07	Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 10:18PM Porn is soooo fucking crowded and DVD sales are actually going down. Best model is to create content ofr an established entity since they have a certaing amount of infrastrucure. [Link]
conquistador Deactivated User Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03	Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 10:29PM Roxanne Hall wrote: I would like to ask....does the box cover have a big part of the movie? If so what do you look for? Click to expand As a consumer and former porn store worker here is what I think. A box cover should have pictures of everyone involved in a movie. Let me know what the scene pairings are and who directed the thing (there are performers, both male and female whose presence will put me off from a movie, even if it is just one scene it is one scene that I don't want to spend money on). Tell me if there special features and what they are (trailers are not special features). If it an all anal movie, for example, the box doesn't need to be cluttered up with text explaining it. If there pictures of all the girls doing anal I know what to expect. It is porn, show me pictures instead of barely literate drivel about "huge cocks violating tight young chicks who are barely legal jail bait for the fist time ever in their asses...". I am sure you get the point. I also appreciate it when a DVD has a reversible clean and dirty cover in the sleeve. I don't always want to see a huge gaping ass when I am thumbing throw my movies. [Link]
Roxanne Hall Member myspace.com/roxannehallxxx 58 Posts 2/04	Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 10:59PM Do you want to see extra footage like bloopers, behind the scene interviews that kind of thing? [Link]
Mike Quasar Zero Tolerance Reluctant pornographer 1765 Posts 7/01	Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 11:07PM Is that THE Roxanne Hall? [Link]
ragingbull Deactivated User 404 Posts 5/07	Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 11:11PM Hey M Q I have a ?: Would you say porn is really a big money business. I know all these huge numbers are thrown out about how it is a certain, size. But, form my research it seems more like a bunch of small businesses. [Link]
Roxanne Hall Member myspace.com/roxannehallxxx 58 Posts 2/04	Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 11:14PM It is THE Roxanne Hall. [Link]
Mike Quasar Zero Tolerance Reluctant pornographer 1765 Posts 7/01	Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 11:19PM ragingbull wrote: Hey M Q I have a ?: Would you say porn is really a big money business. I know all these huge numbers are thrown out about how it is a certain, size. But, form my research it seems more like a bunch of small businesses. Click to expand You're right. It's an enormously profitable pie cut into a zillion tiny pieces. There are a handful of truly wealthy people in porn. Can you make a good living at it? Absolutely but the more crowded the playing field gets the harder it is. [Link]

Author

Post

readyman
Member

10 Posts
10/07

Posted - Oct 5 2007 : 8:01AM

The porn business is so saturated that it seems that some one like me "ordinary guy" have not chance to make it. OK put that i want to start to shoot porn videos let say in two or three weeks, because you need some time to set up things like, rise some money - get some equipment - to book some models - find a location studio. considering all this how much shall i need ? Let say between $10.000 $15.000 is this enough to start off? Also i will have to get in contact with a distributor and someone to print the DVD from the master and this could bring costs up. any way in this days is it still plausible for someone to consider porn a way to make good money?
Ciao

[Link]

picman
Senior Member

Nothing says I love you so much as a tongue in the ass.
2884 Posts
1/03

Posted - Oct 5 2007 : 9:04AM

If you're as unprepared as you sound like you are, you'd have a hard time just booking talent, and zero expectation of finding a distributor for your finished work. Try to get work as a PA on real porn shoots just to see what it takes, then all your questions may be answered for you.

[Link]

johnny brazil
Member

67 Posts
9/07

Posted - Oct 5 2007 : 9:41AM

yeah but be careful man because my bro got a job holding the boom mic on a porn shoot and he thought it was the coolest job in the world until he had to wear headphones so he could monitor the sound. he said the moaning and screaming drove him totally insane and that it was the "hardest" job he'd ever done!

[Link]

sickguy
Deactivated User

I'm unofficially Beauty Dior's #1 Fan
736 Posts
9/06

Posted - Oct 5 2007 : 10:48AM

I used to think that working on a porn shoot would be the coolest job ever. Be it actor, boom mic guy, whatever...
Then one day I realized I had my head up my ass.
If it was all females maybe I would like it.
The thought of filming some other guy's dick for 3 hours would make me feel like a bit of a homosexual. Even as a male performer...watching is one thing...but when those lights go on and so many other people watching you, I'm sure it's a whole new ball game.
Personally I don't think it's all it's cracked up to be.
Obviously we all fantasize about these women and I'm sure if you could be with them in privacy, it would be great..but when the sex is as staged as it is in porn...I'm sure it's not as fun. I know some of the male performers are still having a great time but it can't be as fun, when you have someone else saying "cut". "This position isn't working. Let's try..."
IMHO
Didn't mean to derail the topic.
Edited by - sickguy on 10/5/2007 10:48:46 AM

[Link]

conquistador
Deactivated User

Hellhamster.
2947 Posts
10/03

Posted - Oct 5 2007 : 11:47AM

You should pull up some old topics on this board as well as doing some business research elsewhere.
I agree with the advice that you should attempt to work peripherally on a porn set first. You may discover it is not for you without blowing 15,000$.
Good Luck and keep us posted.
Also remember that releasing DVDs is not the only business model porn takes. Some content is never released on DVD at all and is used only on pay porn sites.
Consider your location as well. You didn't make clear where you wanted to shoot but in many (actually most) places in North America the public authorities would not approve of your work.
What is going to be special about your product? Can the market even support *another* generic studio? Do you have any special interests or themes in mind that are not thoroughly covered in the existing market?
From reading adult boards I think you might find the porn consumer has the same kind of brand loyalty going on as any other consumer. Folks buy stuff from studios who have treated them well in the past, consumers know what they want and through feedback studios already cater to them.
I hope 2 or 3 weeks is ample time to conduct the necessary research.
EDIT: typo.
Edited by - conquistador on 10/5/2007 11:50:00 AM

[Link]

Tinaka
Member

953 Posts
8/03

Posted - Oct 5 2007 : 12:43PM

Better off with a website. Check out conysgirls for how feeble a porn site can be.

[Link]

Jholmes
Member

150 Posts
4/07

Posted - Oct 5 2007 : 4:18PM

The problems I have been hearing is that Porn is superfragmented and there are a million different categories like Milf, toe lickers, tug jobs, interracial, midgets etc :)
Everybody has their own kink
Also DVDs may be dieing as a lot of new stuff is on the internet on Pay by the minute sites
so 1st you need to see what you want to specialize in
I think if you do films for couples then DVDs may be safe bcus watching porn on a laptop is not exactly romantic or conducive to getting a chick in the mood whereas watching a DVD on TV is a lot better for couples

[Link]

Hardware

All-Star Member

Your other left
14595 Posts
3/02

Posted - Oct 5 2007 : 5:08PM

I doubt that DVD's are dying. However, it is certainly less of a risk for an unknown to put up a scene on a web page. Getting DVD's packaged and produced costs real money, not to mention having to give the distributors a cut, and waiting for said distributors to actually pay you for what they sold can test your monetary reserves.
You did plan on having monetary reserves, didn't you?

[Link]

Lance
Member

My Life Sucks
386 Posts
4/05

Posted - Oct 5 2007 : 10:58PM

All the more reason why internet can be so seductive. (CAN be far lower overhead and start-up costs, but not always depending on how you do it.)
Though the internet is very saturated, and you need to have a hook and solid marketing plan, or you can expect to pour thousands down the drain on top of your content costs.
www.makemoneyfucking.com

[Link]

Mike Quasar
Zero Tolerance

Reluctant pornographer
1765 Posts
7/01

Posted - Oct 5 2007 : 11:46PM

Think of it in terms of breaking into the "real" movie business. Is it possible to finance a low budget indie film and have a major studio pick it up without having any connections whatsoever? Yes, but extremely unlikely even if it's utterly brilliant. Unfortunately porn is completely disposable entertainment and a captivating and clever storyline doesn't really enter into the equation so you're pretty much left simply shooting people fucking. So what is it that you would do different than every other pornographer who shoots the same girls at the same locations every single day in porn valley? If the answer to that question is "nothing", how can you compete with the established players in the game and make any real money? 25 years ago people were fighting for slices of the porn pie, then porn exploded and they started fighting over crumbs. Now they're fighting for the tin plate that the pie came in so that they can take it to a recycling center and make 5 cents.
Yes it's possible to make good money in porn but it gets harder every year and part of the problem is that everyone wants to try to make good money in porn.

[Link]

Porn Scout
Deactivated User

3735 Posts
10/02

Posted - Oct 6 2007 : 6:04AM

Back in 2001-2002, it might have made more sense for a reasonably informed outsider with good business sense to try and enter the porn business. Since then, so many studios have popped up that it doesn't make sense to do that anymore.

[Link]

Kensington Chapp
Senior Citizen

Mine is the biggest.
610 Posts
7/07

Posted - Oct 6 2007 : 8:27AM

...unless a new studio makes decent porn (a contradiction of terms).
Booking talent is a prob. I know it's porn, how reputable do you have to be?
Imagine you were a porno-chick trying to make yourself famous.
Would you waste time with some nobody producer making his first DVD? I think not.
However, all women have their price; the more you up the fee, the more likely you'll book a known performer.
At least then fanboys will buy your crap even if it is, well, crap.
Edited by - kensington chapp on 10/6/2007 8:30:12 AM

[Link]

Porn Scout
Deactivated User

3735 Posts
10/02

Posted - Oct 6 2007 : 3:29PM

I don't think booking talent would really be a problem, or not much of one anyway. There are hundreds of porn girls out there looking for paydays.
And if you can actually make a good product (doubtful), I don't think distribution would be a problem either.
No, I think the problem is, quite simply, how do make money with all the competition out there? It's very, very tough, even if you have an okay product, to make it stand out to the consumer.

[Link]

Knocko
Member

533 Posts
5/07

Posted - Oct 7 2007 : 6:33AM

well u got to offer something no one else is.....look at joanna angel. her burning angel site & products are successful because she tapped into a market and offered a look & style that no one else was.....look at the bangbros guys, they were just another porn site until they really focused on their scenarios and started the "reality style" porn craze

[Link]

realtip
Deactivated User

2301 Posts
6/04

Posted - Oct 7 2007 : 6:51AM

I would imagine that getting started in the porno business is no different than starting any other type of business. Of course, you will need capital to get things up and rolling, such as paying for equipment, talent, and various other expenses. Frankly, I think the beginning stages of making your product, and making it known are likely to be the most difficult.
Some have expressed concerns over competition and how saturated the market is. I wouldn't see that as a problem. Yes, there are numerous other pornographers, many of whom are already established and well-known, that your product will have to compete against. But if you look at it, most of them are all basically doing the same thing. I don't want to work in porn, but if I were going to get into the porn game, I would focus on creating something that no one else is doing, which really isn't that difficult to do, as creativity appears to be lacking.
It's just like if you live in a town that has 1,000 donut shops, but they all only sell glazed. If you open another donut shop, but sell glazed along with chocolate, jelly, and other varieties, then you've just given the other thousand shops some strong competition. That's what porn seems to have become- Everybody wants to do it, but nobody's doing anything different or that stands out from the crowd. If you think about some of the most well-known pornographers around (Rocco, Jules, Max, Khan, etc.) they all made their names by creating something that no one else was doing at the time. If you can do that, there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to do alright in porn.

[Link]

Sean Renaud
Member

181 Posts
7/07

Posted - Oct 7 2007 : 3:33PM

I think everybody has a dream of one day putting out a product. I agree with most of what has been said here but I think one very important thing hasn't been said that should be self evident.
Watch porn. What is it that you like? I think that the numerous films that are dedicated to a single act like toe sucking, fat chicks or midgets (all of which I'm sure make enough money to be worth while. Which obviously is/will be my goal. You don't need to release the New Devil in Miss Jones or Pirates. I'm sure that Tea bags and Tossed Salads made enough money to pay the bills and a little something extra.) So stop thinking that you are a freak and start thinking that there are probably other people out there just like you who think, gee wouldn't it be nice if I could find a porn with X?
Since I may never get to make my own porn I don't mind throwing out what my basic plan is, worse case scenario somebody steals it and I get good porn. Best case somebody thinks I'm brilliant and agrees to fund me, either way (or anything in between) I'll spill.
Nothing against blondes (many of my favorites are blonde) but there are enough girls of other looks that unless the point is Blonds or you are matching up legends like Janine vs Jenna or Hillary Scott vs Kelly Wells there is no reason to have two blonds in one film and no excuse for having 3+ (Unless we are doing threesomes or something). I would make sure to try and have five different looking girls a blonde, a black, an asian, a redhead, a latino would probably be my normal set up but the peices are interchangable.
Next I know I can't be the only person who is tired of cookie cutter porn. The blow job kinda sorta has to come first but from there you'll often see five scenes where it goes cowgirl, reverse cowgirl, doggy, anal if it's gonna happen, cowgirl. I'm sorry that just doesn't work for me, instead of each scene having a use instead you just pick which girl is "best" and exclude all the others because they are doing the same thing.
I understand the need for themes but when you put out a random(ish) title like Obscene Behavior, you could have done so much better than just foot and rim jobs. I want one scene to be a lot of gagging, then the next one to be a girl cum farting into another girls mouth, followed with a rough gangbang like a Violation of, or a Max Hardcore scene. The idea here is to get five DIFFERENT scenes on one film.
I have a few other random ideas floating around but that covers the basics. Bottom line is I want to make porn that I want to watch and I'm sure that there are other people who think exactly what I think. Also I figure with the porn that I've seen on the market getting a distributer can't be THAT hard.

[Link]

Porn Scout
Deactivated User

3735 Posts
10/02

Posted - Oct 7 2007 : 4:22PM

^ Interesting idea. You might have some trouble getting so many different types of girls that are also willing to do all the things you want them to do, but I like the idea of mixing it up more. A lot of Evil Angel titles mix things up quite a bit, although I don't know any where the director was quite so particular about bringing in different "types" of girls to the same extent you are talking about.

[Link]

Leeroy Magic
Member

178 Posts
6/07

Posted - Oct 7 2007 : 9:07PM

I plan on making an adult film sometime this year or next. The biggest problem I see with entering the adult business is piracy. The second problem is adult video rentals. The third is oversaturation.
If you put out a DVD you have to worry about it getting pirated. Then you have to worry about the market shift in buying to renting. Because why buy a DVD for $20 when you can rent 5 or more dvds for the same price? Then you have market oversaturation where everyone wants the hot new DVD with their favorite stars. Right now there are a TON of DVDs I want to see. I don't have the time or money to get them all so I have to be really selective. I still haven't even seen Fashionistas 1. I try to rent what I can and from there I start buying my top choices. If I know my budget is for 5 DVDs, I won't want to waste a pick on some unknown unreliable new startup DVD because I've been burned before by bad studios.
So your first obstacle is establishing yourself as being a decent studio. And that is going to require a few releases. That's why most new studios I've seen start off by creating a series. Look at most adult studios and you will notice their empires are built on a series or two.
There are a few benefits to a series. One is if someone sees number 4 in the series and likes it, they are more likely to go back and get 1, 2 and 3. I personally do it all the time. One series I currently follow is POV Fantasy. I'll buy anything released in the series and currently own all releases.
So I think that is the best way to start. Be prepared to not make any real money until after your 2nd/3rd or 4th DVD. After you get one series going, work on starting another, then another.
That's really the best approach.
And honestly I would say you have to really really like porn. If you are just showing up to make money then you probably won't. My personal approach is sure I'd like to make money with it but the main reason I'd like to get into making adult films is I think I can do it better. I have ideas and plans to make a better product than a lot of the rest and from that I feel confident enough that I could stand out.
I highly recommend trying to sign up as a reviewer on AdultDVDTalk. You'll get to select DVDs to review. It's a great way to learn more about what you like and dislike in porn. Most of the time when you watch a porno you don't like, you don't really stop and evaluate why you don't like it. I'd say it's almost like getting your masters degree in pornography. Because once you start filming you'll need ideas and you'll need to know what works for you and what doesn't work. After you've seen a few 100 or thousand pornos, suddenly you think more like a pornagrapher. It becomes an art.

[Link]

conquistador
Deactivated User

Hellhamster.
2947 Posts
10/03

Posted - Oct 7 2007 : 9:17PM

Please keep us updated about your progress (or lack thereof).
I would be interested in reading about the trials and tribulations of a first time adult video maker trying to make it in the market.
All of the points that have been mentioned may make sense but only if you try will you see if any of them are realistic.
Thanks.
EDIT: Left out a word.
Edited by - conquistador on 10/7/2007 9:18:09 PM

[Link]

Mike Quasar
Zero Tolerance

Reluctant pornographer
1765 Posts
7/01

Posted - Oct 7 2007 : 9:40PM

"Be prepared to not make any real money until after your 2nd/3rd or 4th DVD"
I hate to disappoint you but you should be prepared to not make any real money your first YEAR in business and then be prepared to make very little money in your second year. You won't even collect all the money for your first DVD for 6 months.

[Link]

conquistador
Deactivated User

Hellhamster.
2947 Posts
10/03

Posted - Oct 7 2007 : 9:51PM

For Mike Quasar:
Were you a CA based person to begin with when you got into cameras or did you have to move?
And if you relocated to California what sort of cost did it incur?
EDIT: I am assuming you were interested in cameras before you became an adult camera man. I don't know though.
Edited by - conquistador on 10/7/2007 9:53:32 PM

[Link]

justalurker
Member

241 Posts
8/03

Posted - Oct 7 2007 : 10:12PM

Let's not forget, it's a business, general rule of thumb is it's five years for any business to be even concidered viable. The only times these might skew the trend is when you get lucky and get in on a leading edge of a bubble. And if you want to do that in porn start thinking beyond the internets.

[Link]

Mike Quasar
Zero Tolerance

Reluctant pornographer
1765 Posts
7/01

Posted - Oct 7 2007 : 10:43PM

@conquistador
It's a verrrrrrrry long story but to summarize I moved from Toronto, lived in abject poverty, got into porn entirely by accident and somehow ended up making a career out if it. I had absolutely no knowledge of cameras but after a short time in the biz I discovered that most of the people shooting didn't either :)

mod: extraneous quote removed
Edited by - hardware on 10/8/2007 8:13:08 AM

[Link]

conquistador
Deactivated User

Hellhamster.
2947 Posts
10/03

Posted - Oct 7 2007 : 10:45PM

I live in Toronto....

[Link]

Mike Quasar
Zero Tolerance

Reluctant pornographer
1765 Posts
7/01

Posted - Oct 7 2007 : 11:49PM

Well if I can do it....... ;)
P.S. The leafs won their season opener!! Soon they'll start to suck again though. Happens every year.
P.P.S Happy canadian thanksgiving.
Edited by - mike quasar on 10/7/2007 11:51:02 PM

[Link]

Sean Renaud
Member

181 Posts
7/07

Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 2:31AM

1. I figure that since I only need one girl for each act it shouldn't be too hard. The hard part is getting the difference and mixing it up.
I might be wrong but I would imagine that porn is an industry where you could might actually make money your first year. Correct me if I'm wrong here.
Average porn girl makes what between 500-1500 per scene. 2k is pretty obscene unless they are really well known and guys practically work for free but for the sake of argument I'm going to put them at 1000 dollars. So at six scenes of b/g loving you've spend 15k. 2.5x6.
Assuming you need to buy your camera(s) you could potentially rack up say another 5k (I think less but honestly I don't know)
You then need to handle odds and ends, catering, renting a location and stuff that I'm not thinking of. Once again this number might be low but I'm guessing that can't possibly top another 5k.
So the entire film cost you 25,000 dollars and that seems a little high. Now depending on your bussiness model and pricing we'll say 12.00 per which is kind of the low end of pricing. Hell it's damn near bargain bin. You need to sell just over two thousand copies (2083 to be precise) to make up those costs. I would be willing to bet that in a world where they are releasing literally dozens of movies every month (week) there HAS to be atleast 2000 people in the States that literally buy everything that comes out or would be willing to take a chance if you had a pretty covergirl and a good title. That of course doesn't even factor in whatever you can rake in on some crappy website selling the scenes individually or stills.
Maybe I'm completely off base here but I think that when they say that you shouldn't expect your bussiness to make money off the bat they are talking your normal bussiness.

[Link]

Jholmes
Member

150 Posts
4/07

Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 9:44AM

Looks like a good index fund is the way to go even though its nowhere near as sexy :)

[Link]

sickguy
Deactivated User

I'm unofficially Beauty Dior's #1 Fan
736 Posts
9/06

Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 10:23AM

+ 1

[Link]

Mike Quasar
Zero Tolerance

Reluctant pornographer
1765 Posts
7/01

Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 10:36AM

Will you have an office? A salesperson? A telephone? A warehouse? An accountant? A shipping department? A good lawyer on retainer? None of these things are free. How will you pay for them when, using your business model, you've only made your money back with virtually no profit on one DVD.

[Link]

mrbluelouboyle

All-Star Member

mrbluelouboyle and Alexis Tae
1334 Posts
12/03

Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 11:10AM

I've read a statistic that only one out of every ten new businesses succeeds.
1 out of 10 isn't the greatest of odds.
But if it's something you have a great desire to do, and possibly throwing money into it, without ever recieving any money back...then go for it.

[Link]

Leeroy Magic
Member

178 Posts
6/07

Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 1:24PM

Well it was estimated in another thread that most DVDs don't sell more than 4,000 copies, even if they are fairly popular and backed by a big name adult studio.

[Link]

Sean Renaud
Member

181 Posts
7/07

Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 2:19PM

4000 seems a bit low to me, but I admit I don't know I'm just guessing at that number.
I don't think you would need an office though, you should be able to handle paperwork from your home. Least I don't see why not (I already have an office anyway but we are speaking hypothetically.) The same goes for a phone number or a warehouse. DVD's aren't THAT big I'm sure you could store 4k in a corner of your garage and literally forget about them if need be. I would again expect to be my own salesperson and shipper, until/unless I got to a point where I was shipping enough volume that it made sense to hire somebody for these things.
I hadn't given any real thought to an accountant though which might end up being a serious snag.
It is true that using my initial model all you did was make your investment back (which if I'm not mistaken by normal bussiness standards is damned impressive for your initial project) but my point is it doesn't seem that hard on paper, so I figure one of two things.
1. There is something I'm completely overlooking here which might just be the accountant and other hidden costs.
2. That's why there is so much crap porn out there.

[Link]

Drew Black
broken crankshaft

8011 Posts
9/99

Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 2:20PM

[Link]

Leeroy Magic
Member

178 Posts
6/07

Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 2:24PM

I wish ADT had an adult film maker subforum. Do you think there is enough interest on here for one? Not sure.
Either way, yeah that 4000 number seems low but selling 4,000 units of anything has to be a difficult process.

[Link]

Sean Renaud
Member

181 Posts
7/07

Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 2:37PM

I think there is enough interest to rate a subforum somewhere.
I figure when it comes to DVD's of this nature 4k can't be that hard once you've gotten a few connections. Now I don't now how hard it is to get something like your DVD put on the top of this forum, or front page of Adult Video Universe.
I suppose the truth about the bottom line is that you'll never know until/unless you try but between people who own nearly everything, and then there have got to be a number of guys who try to support the new guy.
It would be interesting to be able to see how many copies the average porn DVD sells just to have an idea as to what to expect.

[Link]

Leeroy Magic
Member

178 Posts
6/07

Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 2:40PM

I agree with you about getting away from cookie cutter porn, but I disagree with your idea of having five different scenes on one film.
I think most consumers want consistency in their porn. Having too much variety allows you to please more people but a lot less versus pleasing a select group a lot more. There is actually a good amount of porn out there with that outline. They shoot the first scene with a white girl, then an asian, then a black girl, then a blonde and a brunette. I don't really see how that is any different.

[Link]

conquistador
Deactivated User

Hellhamster.
2947 Posts
10/03

Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 2:48PM

It may be helpful to let you know how a downtown Toronto porn shop classified DVDs so customers could find them. 5 totally different scenes would be confusing.
Black
Interracial (any mixed race couplings)
Asian
Anal
Lesbian
Bi
Gay
Tranny
Feature/couples friendly
Amateur (dirty debs. up and cummers, etc.)
Young Girls
Mature
Big Breasts
Private (for some reason is a category/style by itself)
Bizarre (hermaphrodites and midgets and fat people and such)
And if someone is particularly well known there might be a Jenna Jameson or Rocco Siffredi or Seymore Butts section.
If someone approached me and asked about XXX type of film I would tell them to check XXX section.
EDIT: Many online retailers have a better breakdown but in brick and mortar shops they have to be set up in a simplified both to help employees and customers.
Edited by - conquistador on 10/8/2007 2:50:38 PM
Edited by - conquistador on 10/8/2007 2:51:35 PM

[Link]

Sean Renaud
Member

181 Posts
7/07

Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 6:09PM

There are films that have different looking girls, but it doesn't seem to be the majority. Like I said all to often we have three blondes, a brunette and a wild card girl.
You guys might be right that people want some kind of consistancy, but I think if you told them in advance there wouldn't be any most wouldn't be upset. That said that same consistancy is what makes so much porn boring.
But maybe I stand alone on this one.

[Link]

Leeroy Magic
Member

178 Posts
6/07

Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 7:08PM

@Sean Renaud
You're right, if you can somehow create a theme out of it, it might do well. But I've seen so much porn with mixed stuff like that, it doesn't even seem like a theme to me.
mod: extraneous quote removed
Edited by - hardware on 10/9/2007 8:00:23 AM

[Link]

Sean Renaud
Member

181 Posts
7/07

Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 7:26PM

Thanks for the advice on trying to find a theme for it even if I go out of my way to make certain the scenes aren't to similar. Hell maybe that can be the theme.

[Link]

conquistador
Deactivated User

Hellhamster.
2947 Posts
10/03

Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 7:34PM

I am not saying that you *need* a category. All I was getting at is that on the retail level, if you have something that defies categorization you also might be missing out on a place on a store's shelves.
I would never order product that couldn't be easily identified by customers. I shouldn't have to tell a shopper anything in advance. They should be able to make their own decisions. Product that needs to be explained in advance is a bad move and a waste of employee and customer time.
EDIT: Customers hate feeling cheated or mislead. While working at an adult shop I had many customers return DVDs because they were somehow misleading. The girl on the cover wasn't really in it, contained no anal scenes but customer thought it would, whatever.
Genre bending is not well received by many porn fans. Some people are happy to see something new. But most buy an anal movie because they want to see anal sex, or a black movie because they want to see black performers etc.
I am not trying to say you have a bad idea. What I am trying to say is look at how porn is marketed, it doesn't fit into easy to classify categories by accident.
Edited by - conquistador on 10/8/2007 7:42:12 PM

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Sean Renaud
Member

181 Posts
7/07

Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 9:32PM

Sorry I misunderstood your intent. I know that feeling as well of being pissed off that this porn had nothing but anal shots on the cover but didn't really have much anal.
That said it seems that there is a fair share of porn that is fairly poorly defined, or that I should be able to piggy bag onto one genre or another.
Thank you for giving me something to think about as far as how to market.
I guess I should start by asking would you think that there is a category you could put it under? What do we put general porn under? You know stuff labeled Nasty Girls 11?

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conquistador
Deactivated User

Hellhamster.
2947 Posts
10/03

Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 9:45PM

What does Nasty Girls 11 show on the box art. Or better yet, what did the catalog I ordered it from or the distributer who sent it to me say about it.
The distributors who I would order titles from had them categorized in much the same was as my list. If gay movies were selling well I would say to give me 1 of everything they had at a certain price range. Ordering porn for a retail store is not really that advanced.
If you go into a porn store yo know why you are there and what you want. Many customers prefer to have little or no interaction with employees. And often aren't even looking for specific titles, they just go with whatever catches their eye.
You might want to a search for for a topic that talked about why straight porn should be more inclusive of male-male sex.
The idea was discussed in a way that it should sort of be slipped into otherwise "straight" movies. This kind of genre bending did not go over well.
Also it is not at all unusual for someone to rent or buy several porn titles at the same time.
So, I wouldn't be able to classify your movie, not would I attempt to put it in the store where I worked if I didn't know what it was.
I am not trying to discourage you, just letting you know about some of the things I noticed while putting in time in the retail world.

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Roxanne Hall
Member

myspace.com/roxannehallxxx
58 Posts
2/04

Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 10:16PM

I would like to ask....does the box cover have a big part of the movie? If so what do you look for?

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ragingbull
Deactivated User

404 Posts
5/07

Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 10:18PM

Porn is soooo fucking crowded and DVD sales are actually going down. Best model is to create content ofr an established entity since they have a certaing amount of infrastrucure.

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conquistador
Deactivated User

Hellhamster.
2947 Posts
10/03

Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 10:29PM

As a consumer and former porn store worker here is what I think.
A box cover should have pictures of everyone involved in a movie. Let me know what the scene pairings are and who directed the thing (there are performers, both male and female whose presence will put me off from a movie, even if it is just one scene it is one scene that I don't want to spend money on). Tell me if there special features and what they are (trailers are not special features).
If it an all anal movie, for example, the box doesn't need to be cluttered up with text explaining it. If there pictures of all the girls doing anal I know what to expect. It is porn, show me pictures instead of barely literate drivel about "huge cocks violating tight young chicks who are barely legal jail bait for the fist time ever in their asses...". I am sure you get the point.
I also appreciate it when a DVD has a reversible clean and dirty cover in the sleeve. I don't always want to see a huge gaping ass when I am thumbing throw my movies.

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Roxanne Hall
Member

myspace.com/roxannehallxxx
58 Posts
2/04

Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 10:59PM

Do you want to see extra footage like bloopers, behind the scene interviews that kind of thing?

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Mike Quasar
Zero Tolerance

Reluctant pornographer
1765 Posts
7/01

Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 11:07PM

Is that THE Roxanne Hall?

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ragingbull
Deactivated User

404 Posts
5/07

Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 11:11PM

Hey M Q I have a ?: Would you say porn is really a big money business. I know all these huge numbers are thrown out about how it is a certain, size. But, form my research it seems more like a bunch of small businesses.

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Roxanne Hall
Member

myspace.com/roxannehallxxx
58 Posts
2/04

Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 11:14PM

It is THE Roxanne Hall.

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Mike Quasar
Zero Tolerance

Reluctant pornographer
1765 Posts
7/01

Posted - Oct 8 2007 : 11:19PM

You're right. It's an enormously profitable pie cut into a zillion tiny pieces. There are a handful of truly wealthy people in porn. Can you make a good living at it? Absolutely but the more crowded the playing field gets the harder it is.

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