The following is from an article/interview that was done by HIPHOPDX.com with Vanessa Blue:
__________________________________________________________ DX: What types of scenes are ideal for you? VB: Female aggressive, where the girl is doing the most work and the guy just holds on for the ride. I don’t like watching the guys power-fuck the girls. DX: Why? VB: That’s not real sex. It’s a show. I’m not saying I got a big ol’ pussy, but, I was with Lex. When you have a guy just pounding and banging at you with no reason and no purpose, it’s not enjoyable. A woman who has had sex can look on screen and see that a woman isn’t enjoying it. I think the only person who can enjoy a girl getting pounded is that misogynistic guy. I don’t believe there’s that many of them buying it. Maybe they’re buying it because they have no other choice. DX: Are there a lot of girls who end up getting hurt doing scenes like that? VB: Yeah. A very popular Asian girl, in a three way. They ripped her ass. She was bleeding profusely from her ass. Nobody said a word to her. They kept the scene going and they kept wiping her ass and not letting her look around and telling her she was okay. She was out of work for a year. Oh yeah, this industry will fuck you up. That’s another thing I try to tell the girls too. If you’re not adjusted to having your body run through the mud. If doing trains ain’t some shit you already been doing, you don’t want to come here and do it because no woman’s body is prepared for that kind of action. The girls who can do it are high. I don’t care what nobody says. The girls who are doing these gang bangs and these bukkakes and all this crazy shit that doesn’t make sense, you ain’t sober. You’re not sober when you’re doing it. DX: So this isn’t the type of stuff that people would do in their every day lives, but more so just a fantasy? VB: No. I’ve met swingers who are bout it. And they are down to do all the things that porno girls do; only they want to do it. There is a difference and a fine line, and the women who really, really enjoy it aren’t here. _________________________________________________________________ First off...what does anyone else think about being misogynistic if you like seeing someone get pounded? Second, does anyone (especially the females out there) want to touch on not being able to do a gang bang unless you're inebriated or high? Finally....who is the Asian star that she's speaking of that got her ass torn? As far as the first two points go, you're entitled to your opinion, but she seemed to REALLY generalize.....
Vanessa Blue is speaking from the viewpoint of a female performer while attempting to psycho-analyze the male viewer. She can't do both accurately. I happen to believe that a viewer can get enjoyment/excitement/pleasure from watching high-energy sex, without hating women. There may be something to her claim that mind-altering substances are needed for a "normal" girl to be able to do the more outrageous sex stunts. If "normal" means they are in the business strictly for the money, and "normal" means they are not a sex freak nor nympho nor sexually adventurous in their personal life, then it would be extremely difficult for this "normal" girl to mentally handle a 57-man lubeless anal gangbang without some type of drugs. However, Vanessa did admit that there exist some "real-life freaks", people who are adventurous in their personal life, who enjoy wild sex for the thrill and excitement, not for business or monetary reasons. So, Vanessa's drug-use theory is based on the premise that ALL of the porn girls are "normal"(as defined above), and NONE of them are "real-life freaks"(as defined above).
I think Vanessa is throwing females under the bus here, when this is just her opinion. I know several girls’ (porn performers and non performers) who get off watching a guy pound another girl. Contrary to her comment, this type of porn does sell and quite well. Otherwise the market wouldn’t be overflowing with “gonzo material.” It’s funny you post this today because I just got off the phone with a performer and she was in the hospital early in her career because of too hard of a pounding. But she didn’t go out and throw stones about it. There have been many many injuries from hard porn scenes, so she isn’t stating anything new with that. Saying everyone is high or drunk doing certain scenes is just an asinine opinion. If she feels like this how come she directed the films Super Whores 3 (2204) and Super Whores 6 (2006)? I like Vanessa and her work, but she can’t put everyone in a box based on her own opinion. Edited by - IWAdult on 2/25/2008 5:08:26 PM
Personally I agree entirely with what she says. I cannot see how a couple of jocks banging the shit out of a girl who looks barely out of high school is a turn on? Porn originally (from my point of view anyway) was the fantasy of an attractive woman/women seducing a man and getting down and dirty. Someone you'd probably never have a cat in hell's chance of meeting but you'd fantasize about being with. Not about literally being gangbanged into submission at a million miles per hour. Theres just no feeling in it. Its not hot. Porn these days resembles an X rated workout or wrestling match! If I think a scene is hot its always down to the woman/women in the scene appearing to be in ecstacy not with mascara dripping down their faces as though they've been in a fight. Can you imagine if a Gonzo style movie featured the same kind of thrills Vanessa Del Rio used to give us? A woman like that who could make you cum just by looking at you??! Porn should be erotic. To me that is the whole point. Take that away and you've got precisely what Vanessa Blue is talking about - cold and pointless. I just wish all these gonzo producers these days would figure this out.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Feb 26 2008 : 4:51AM
One of the central fallacies of 99% of porn is that most women get off from a 'hard pounding.' Most women don't get off from vaginal penetration, it is clitoral stimulation that gets them off. Both at the same time seems to work well for a lot of women, yet you rarely ever see this in porn.
Because porn is marketed for men. And while we take care of our partners for a variety of reasons really a lot of the time we simply want to get off. And we do get off on pumping and thrusting.
Hm.Hm. I always appreciated Vanessa Blues comments, but here she uses a simple generalization. What is a gangbang ? I enjoy having sex with 5 good male friends, sometimes 1 or 2 female friends join us. I would never do this with strangers or when a film camera is running. But I wouldnt say, that girls/women dont enjoy wilder sex. Its an incredible feeling, having sex with 3 or even 5 men together. Or sucking a cock together with a good girlfriend. Of course, the case described by Vanessa Blue, where an asian women is hurted, is terrible. But accidents can happen in everybodys private sex life too. If the directors havent stopped this at once, "nobody said a word to her", then this isnt far away from a sex crime. But "the girls who can do it are high" is - sorry - idiotic and degrades and insults women. I never took drugs, even 5 of my girlfriends who participated in porn, never did this. Some enjoyed Bukkake, I too. I refuse it, to feel ashamed or that all of these women are under suspicion of taking drugs. ( If I read Vanessas interview, I am not so sure, if she hasnt drunk too many rootbeers..) Its ok, when Vanessa criticies the porn industry, many things should be criticized. But she uses blatant and simple overgeneralizations. In her interview, wise statements and pure nonsense alternate. "A woman who has had sex can look on screen and see that a woman isnt enjoying it." Thats true. In most porn movies, I only have to watch 30 seconds and I can tell you, if the women liked it or not. Especially in US porn, at least 90% of orgasms are faked. But simulating an orgasm doesnt mean, that you cant enjoy the sex. Or that the sex is terrible brutal. Several women in porn dont enjoy what they do. They only pretend it. But this is more often so in normal porn (1 on 1 scenes ) or in very extreme porn ( hard sm porn/animalporn/scat ). Why ? Because normal porn is the main entrance for women into the XXX biz. Women do this, who usually wouldnt play in porn, but they need $. The women in extreme porn have no problem with her performances, sometimes a long career in normal porn, but they look at the "big money" offered. There are also women there who really enjoy it. Some women enjoy SM. I dont like it at all, but why should I judge them ? As long as I dont have to join them, I dont mind. As long as nobody is seriously hurted. In Gangbang videos, excluding the "Gangbang Records", the enjoyment factor was higher as in "normal porn" or "very extreme porn". Its also highly subjective, if you call sex with 5 or 7 people a "gangbang" or not. Most women would say, this is a gangbang, most men would say, no, this isnt a gangbang. Quite a lot of women like group sex, fewer gangbangs. But everyone has his own definiton. It isnt mysoginistic , if someone fucks without sense. Its boring. But its only mysoginistic, if he insults and degrades the women. Max Hardcore is mysoginistic. JJ isnt. Even if some scenes are sometimes questionable. But he and other porn directors dont direct their movies with the intention to degrade the women. Max does it. But I feel degraded, if I read Vanessas statements: "The girls who are doing these gang bangs and bukkakes, that doesnt make sense, you aint sober." Even my conservative anti-porn feminist mother hasnt said this to me. She said, " You are crazy. Watching too much porn has brainwashed you. You have adapted the male vision of sexuality and believe, these are your own desires. You should feel ashamed. " Is this a hoax or an imposter ? OK, I have to calm down a little bit. Such statements are very disappointing, especially from a (porn) women, because she doesnt differentiates at all. She only repeats cliches, I already heard from right wingers or christian knuckleheads. With this interview, she also contradicts some of her own older statements. Edited by - Caroline-NL on 2/26/2008 1:43:07 PM
Are a lot of the girls high when they're shooting? I don't know. Maybe/possibly. I'm sure some are. Do any of them actually enjoy their work? I think so. I've seen some scenes where there wasn't any doubt the girls were enjoying it. Also, it's easy to accuse the viewers of being misogynists but it really is getting a little old. Clearly, if you read a lot on here, you can see there are plenty of viewers who aren't misogynists. I'm sure there are some who harbor some misogynistic feelings but I'd say it's pretty normal for a man to want to see a woman fucked hard. Especially in today's society when so many men feel emasculated. Maybe that plays a little into misogyny but it's also just human nature. Men like to feel powerful and in control and so much of our culture these days denies us this. She has some good points but guess what? These girls are being paid to get fucked. Of course there are going to be a lot of them who are just going through the motions. You see this every day in every other profession. A lot of people hate their jobs. And when and if they complain, their boss will invariably point to the door and say "There it is. Don't let me keep you". What it comes down to is the fact that porn is just business. Like anything else (Though obviously with some differences). You don't have to enjoy it but if you're going to do it, you might as well make the best of it. If you really hate it, just don't do it. It's possible to put yourself through college working ordinary jobs. Porn will not be worse off without 1,000 girls who don't want to do it anyway. In fact, it might be better that way. If studios had to actually look for their talent, maybe they could find the girls who really enjoy sex. And maybe they'd appreciate them a little more when they do find them. If you let people take advantage of you, they will.
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Feb 26 2008 : 6:06PM
I think Vanessa's comments are spot on. I also think that it hits a little close to home for some fans considering some of the reactions posted here. I don't think, for example, that she was being "anti-gangbang' she was being anti-abusive of the female performers. I think great gonzo with hot performers actually enjoying the sex are not mutually exclusive concepts.
I don't know if you're referring to my post or not but I'd just like to say that if I hated women, I wouldn't have any problems just saying so. It's nothing to me to be honest here. If I was a misogynist, why should I care what a bunch of strangers I'll never meet think of me? I don't hate women. I get off on everything from softcore solo pictures to the hardest hardcore. In fact, probably 80% of the porn I have on my hard drive right now is simply softcore solo pictures of naked women smiling and posing. Now if I hated women, what would there be in a softcore photograph of a woman smiling and happy to get me off? If you doubt me, check my posting history. I'm an honest guy. I don't care what people think.I don't disagree. But there's a wide range of what people enjoy. It isn't the viewer's fault if many of the performers don't enjoy the rough stuff. They're adults. They can choose not to do it. When I watch the rough porn, it's not a requirement that the girl hate every minute of it. I'd actually prefer that she likes it rough and enjoys herself. But I can't know if she really likes it or not until after I've seen it and even then, if she's good at pretending to like stuff she hates, I might not know it. Women in the business have to take care of themselves. They can't expect viewers to just know what they really get into and what they don't. And just applying "common sense" with sex doesn't work because as I said, different people get off on different things and some women do like it rough. So. To say "Well, of course she isn't enjoying it! Who does?" isn't a very good argument. Many people do. For many reasons. Misogyny may be one of them for some people but it definitely isn't the only one for all people. Edited by - randomprecision on 2/26/2008 6:32:56 PM
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Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Feb 26 2008 : 8:42PM
RP, no I wasn't calling you out. Actually I thought that you presented a very well reasoned opinion, You were not calling a very experienced and well known performer basically a traitor to, shell I say, her profession, which is what I was reacting to do while starting a war with anybody. A vigorous fuck should not be injurious to the extent that a performer is not capable of working for a year. The interviewer did, after all ask her what kind of scenes she liked to do and her answer was [iFemale aggressive, where the girl is doing the most work and the guy just holds on for the ride. I don’t like watching the guys power-fuck the girls.. That is after all her taste. She is not just some parolee's receptacle, she is fully engaged, sexually. Considering most of the boring dreck that falls under the classification of "Gonzo" these days, I find her comments refreshing and I think I will start looking for scenes that she is in.
Of course it shouldn't. But where's the line? I think it's pretty safe to assume most of the male performers and most of the directors have little medical knowledge. All most of them probably have to go on is their personal experience (whatever that is). And many viewers may know even less. If you continually see women getting "power fucked" and you never see the injuries, you may be inclined to think women can take it with no problems. Although that would seem to be contrary to common sense, people are generally not deep thinkers when they're horny. The surface is pretty much all that matters. And also, if a woman knows full well that a certain activity is likely to result in injury, shouldn't it be (at least in part) her responsibility to say no? Of course, a director should know better in the first place but you can't always count on that. Clearly, a man with a 12" cock slamming in and out of a woman's asshole pretty much full force is something that should make anyone think twice. If someone wanted to fuck your ass like that, wouldn't you say no (Assuming you had the inclination to be fucked in the first place)? As the old saying goes, it takes two to tango. One party can't be responsible for everything. America is a free, open society (more or less) and these women are not strictly limited to porn. That's even assuming they can't do something softer within the porn industry. IOW, even if they had no choice but to do nothing but the hardest hardcore if they wanted to do porn, they could always do something else. I get what you're saying though. A director shouldn't really ask a woman (or a man, for that matter) to do anything he or she knows is dangerous. But there are still gray areas. For instance, things that might cause mild injuries but nothing too serious (unless something goes terribly wrong). If a woman knows the risks and agrees to do it, doesn't she have that right? And doesn't the director have a right to make that kind of content under the assumption that he or she discloses everything to her up front? Some problems arise when women agree to this stuff at the get go, say they're fine with it every time they're asked and then only later decide to kick up a fuss about it. Why they do this is anyone's best guess but it happens. As I say, they shouldn't agree to do anything they're not really comfortable with in the first place. If they're seriously injured just due to pure negligence, I can understand them being upset. But if the kind of content that's being shot is risky, there's only so much the director can do to try and assure everyone's safety and there's only so much a director can do to try and assure everything is consensual. He or she can't know the female talent is uncomfortable, in pain or wishes to stop (or not do it at all) unless they say so. Now I'm working under the assumption that almost every major studio and/or director is clear and honest, upfront with the talent and actually asks them in advance if they're OK with every act that will take place during shooting. In todays litigious world, it would be insane to do otherwise unless you like dealing with a lot of extraneous nonsense.
Edited by - randomprecision on 2/26/2008 9:27:43 PM
wOw!!! I appreciate ALL of the responses that you guys have sent to my original post. It shows that we have ALOT of different people here with ALOT of different opinions and ALL of those opinions should be respected. NOW...for MY opinion. (lol) I've always said that as long as the girl is enjoying herself, I have no problem with Gonzo. I'm not into gaping and "cum farts" etc. but hey, to each his/her own. I've dealt with different women over the years (30 + on this planet) and there were some that felt sex was overrated, some that laid there like a sex doll, and others that were wild women and let you do just about ANYTHING to them that you see in a porno. NOW, Vanessa DOES say that if a women isn't doing trains already, that they shouldn't do it in the business because their body can't take it. Well, there's a first time even for the women that do gangbangs/trains/group sex in their private lives, so who's to say that a newbie or established female performer may not try out a gangbang and actually LIKE it. It doesn't mean that they need to be "high" or drunk. To all of the women that are out there that DO enjoy participating in gangbangs/trains on film it's basically a diss and Ms. Blue said "I don't care what anyone says" so to her, you're high if you do it....straight up. There is no misquote there. BUT...again, she's entitled to her opinion. But enough of that shit....does anyone know who the Asian performer is that she speaks of?
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Posted - Feb 27 2008 : 12:08AM
First she was stating what her approach is. 2nd her comments about girls being high or stone dwhile doing some of these things, I presume is based on her experience being on a great deal of porn over the last dozen years, Who am I, or anyone else posting on this thread to question her experience, let alone suggest that she is some sort of sellout or calling it like she sees it. RP, I think your comment, t's pretty normal for a man to want to see a woman fucked hard. depends what one interprets as a hard fuck. To me, as far as a woman is concerned, it means that a woman as gotten so caught up in the moment that she breaks the figurative orgasmic sound barrier into another dimension. Actually not only the woman but the guy as well. After it is over I want to see them collapsed into a pool of exhaustion, but hey that is just me. If a guy is power fucking the girl and by doing so drives her bananas, well great But I don't wish to see anyone abused. I do not think that hurting someone is sexual. I don't buy into the concept of "today's man" feeling emasculated, by I presume women. I certainly don't and I suspect you don't either. Some may, especially sexual sadists, but I do not believe your typical guy feels that way. You are right the girls are there to fuck and be fucked, but I don't believe misogyny is human nature. Some men do like to feel powerful and in control, but that is not in their/our DNA. It is what they/we are taught to be. I again applaud Vanessa for being empowered by her sexuality.
I have longed for a scene in which Vanessa Blue was submissive and gets totally pounded. Her dominant female persona (looking and talking directly to the camera) is always a turnoff. Which is disappointing, because she is incredibly hot.
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First, I don't have any further comment about drugs than what I've already stated in other threads. I'm sure there is quite a bit of drug use in porn and really, my political views on drugs are that people should be free to use them if they want.Well, first of all, as I've said before in other threads, I think porn tends to exaggerate everything. Over the years, things have gotten harder and there's not much room left for subtlety. For example, I don't think there's really a need for the woman to be screaming and moaning at the top of her lungs throughout the entire scene unless she's really just that turned on. I don't think every thrust needs a vocalization from the male or the female. I don't think everything needs commentary. Life, for example, if a chick is sucking the guy's dick and she stops and looks into the camera and says "I just love sucking dick". I think that can be communicated in more subtle ways that don't seem so overt that you stop jacking off and think "Why did she need to say that?". So the whole "power fucking" thing is kind of an extension of that. They go overboard to demonstrate the fact that "Hey. This is as hardcore as it gets, man!". They may not even realize there's any other way to do it and still convey the message and give the image of hardcore sex. Or, maybe it's just too much trouble to aim for subtlety at the high volume at which most porn is produced. It's cheap, dirty and mass produced. That usually means sloppy. As to your other point - Well, again, tastes are very individual and what's abuse to you may be normal lovemaking or sex to someone else. Whatever your normal is, you can't expect that to be everyone else's normal. And if there weren't women who actually enjoyed it, there wouldn't be a BDSM scene outside of porn. There are women who seek it out and even travel to meet men for what you would apparently term as "abuse". They get off on it. It's a give and take situation. Yes. The male typically enjoys inflicting pain but he also wishes to satisfy the needs of the woman who enjoys receiving it. He's usually not just some guy out there grabbing random girls off the street and beating them senseless for his own gratification. This may not be sexual to you but to a lot of people, it is. Pain and pleasure are so closely related that they can almost be interchangeable for some people. I realize some people don't get it and if you don't, that's fine. But I think your conceptions are generally wrong.No. It doesn't take a sexual sadist to feel emasculated by the fact that men are expected to act like women with dicks in the bedroom. I've commented on this before but sometimes, women expect a man to act like a man and take charge. It really depends on the woman and the situation. But women have fantasies too and they aren't all nice and warm and cuddly. Sometimes they want to be ravished and they want the man to act like a traditional man. Not all the time. Not a wife beater. But not a sissy either. Sometimes they want a man to take what he wants. Not literally rape them. If they say "stop" in all seriousness, he should stop. But they want a man to be assertive and even aggressive at times. So. Anyway. A lot of men realize this is a part of many a woman's fantasies and it turns them on as much as it turns the women who like it on. But of course, in porn, you can't count on every woman to like it. In fact, they probably won't because women like to build some kind of a foundation of trust and some kind of feelings with a man before they just rip their clothes off and ravish them and there's really no time for porn performers to get to know one another so intimately. But sometimes, you will see a scene in which the women and the man just have some special kind of chemistry and it really comes right through and you can see that she's soaking up every bit of it. Manuel Ferrara is one of the guys who tends to get a lot of the porn chick's juices flowing in this manner. I think a lot of the girls are genuinely attracted to him and it really shows. A good looking guy with lots of sex appeal can do things that your average porn stud can't without turning the girl off even more than she already is by the fact that she isn't even really attracted to the guy.My point wasn't that misogyny is human nature. Rather, that I think it tends to be (although not necessarily is) in a man's nature to want to dominate. You can see it everywhere in nature. The male is almost always the aggressor. The female is almost always resistant and then, ultimately, submissive. My argument had nothing to do with misogyny because as I said, I don't think this particular aspect necessarily requires someone to be a misogynist in order to enjoy it. I do enjoy it at times and am certainly not a misogynist. At least, I wouldn't characterize myself as such. Obviously, as a male, I've had issues with women just as all men have and there may be some latent hostility there somewhere but that, I think, is normal. Just as there's almost always some latent hostility towards men from women because of bad experiences they've had in the past. That certainly doesn't mean they hate men though. But they might enjoy watching a man get smacked around a little by a woman as some sort of a sense of empowerment because they've been in relationships and situations with men in which their power and control was involuntarily taken away. They're not really sitting there hating men. They're just trying to mentally get back the power they lost at some point in the past.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Feb 27 2008 : 1:10AM
RP makes some good points but the question becomes why is it that porn focuses so much on submissive women and dominant men, when most S/M is about shifting between submission and dominance? To me, this is the real sign of pornography made by someone into S/M, as opposed to just retarded male revenge fantasies.
Hmm. What I've noticed about people who are really into bondage is that most of them aren't switches. They are either dom or sub. There generally is no shifting within the same scene. And I think the answer to your question is that this is what a lot of men can't get in real life (or are afraid to ask for). Many men want a submissive woman. If that doesn't say it plainly enough, I don't know what will. As I say over and over, porn is more about our fantasies than it is about "normal" sex. If you can have "normal" sex any time, why would you want to watch it in porn? We want to see what we're not getting in reality. That's why there are so many unrealistic scenarios in porn. And that's why you see so many acts that real women generally just aren't into doing. People who are in a normal relationship with regular sex probably don't want to see plain vanilla sex in porn. They're looking for what they can't have. Whether it be cum swallowing, anal or whatever their desires are that they can't fulfill with their wife or GF. Vanilla porn tends to be more for couples to view together or for people who don't have a partner who prefer vanilla sex. Anyway. I don't think porn is about reality at all so it's silly to expect it to be constrained to the conventions of reality. It's about creating a fantasy reality in which anything can happen. It isn't based upon how things really are (Real anal isn't always squeaky clean). It's based upon how things might be in the viewer's ideal world. And to go further, it is also because in the real world, women tend to dominate men in many ways. We have to ask them for sex. We have to ask them for a date. In either case, they will probably say no if they don't like you. Many men have to practically beg women for what they want. Porn simply flips reality upside down. The man says what he wants and the woman does what he wants. It really is rather simple. In that man's fantasy, the women never say no. They say "Harder, deeper, faster". That isn't a realistic situation but again, porn is about satisfying unrealistic desires.
While I cannot presume to speak for Ms. Blue, even though she's sitting here right besides me, I think I can shed some light on her statements. (She cannot find her password to respond herself) I was actually present for the interview with HipHopDX during AVN in January. And we have had numerous conversations about the state of the industry currently and how it has changed since her baptism into it nearly a decade ago. As for her statements, they were made during an interview given to a journalist that had little or no previous experience with the industry and wanted to know some of the details that most fans would not otherwise be privy to. You must always look at the context of someone's statements before judging them in a vacuum. Her statements were brought here not by her own accord. The basic premise of her statement(s) is that the industry has changed in the past 10 years and the gonzo style of shooting is a large part of that change. Ten years ago, features ruled the day and gonzo was its little brother. A feature scene is much different than a gonzo scene, obviously. The performers in a feature were/are much different than gonzo performers. Her statement was not meant to be a criticism of the entire industry, merely a clarification of what someone sees when they watch a gonzo type of scene. It is not that she believes that all women do not enjoy a hard pounding, it is when the pounding is merely presented to the viewer for no other purpose than to degrade the female performer. There is a fine line between a hard pounding and a violent fucking. I can attest to the fact that there are more injuries on set than most would care to know. Rips and tears can occur when you have a male performer with a 10"+ dick, rock hard from Viagra with little sensation, pounding against an anus or vagina for hours in order to capture 20 or so minutes necessary to make the scene. As for the use of drugs or alcohol on set, this does in fact happen. This should be of no surprise to anyone. Again, she did not mean to say every female performer needs to be inebriated to perform, but many do need to be in their "happy place" in order to perform some of the scenes they are called on to do. There has been an unstated race in gonzo to be the "most depraved, most violent, most shocking" company. Just review some of the titles of lines today compared with 10-20 years ago. Not all companies have participated in this race, but a rising tide does lift all boats. Anal ten years ago was a small part of the business. Now it is almost mandatory at some point in a performer's career. Blow jobs have become more about throat fucking and less about the sensual use of a woman's mouth to please. Whether this is good for the business or not is still unknown. That is really up to the consumer to decide. I can tell you however, that injuries on set are going to be treated much differently in the next 10 years. A performer with an injury on set will now have options other than to keep quiet. I suspect as more companies realize the need to protect their talent, the violent misogynistic scenes will decline. The risk will be too great and the price too high. As a lobbyist for FSC in Sacramento I have heard on numerous occasions over the past several years, questions from legislators and their aides as to when the industry is going to treat their workers better and protect them. This is one of the issues the industry is facing with Cal-OSHA. If you continue to have doubts about how talent are treated just look to the average longevity of a performer's career now as compared to a decade ago. Vanessa has been a part of the industry for a decade and will continue to be for years to come. There aren't many performers that have started their career in 2008 that will be here in the year 2018. Michael AdultBizLaw.com
I heavily doubt this. This may be true for the years 2001-05. But its not true for the last 2-3 years. We have more features as ever, WICKED has doubled his releases - Digital Playground, even some smaller labels are releasing a feature now and then. It may be true, that we have more gonzo porn as in 2001, but the percentage is lower as in 2001. Total releases just exploded in the last years. And feature isnt the only "anti"-gonzo. Lesbian porn was almost "dead" in 2005. Now we have Abby Winters ( ok, thats in Australia), but lezlovecuties, Pureplay, 21st Century, Pink Visual, quite a lot of SOFTER lesbian porn movies, most are rented better ( at least here in NL ) as the usual gonzo porn.Sorry, but in her interview she says, that women can only enjoy bukkake or gangbangs, if they take drugs. Thats an insulting, nothing less. Some may take drugs, but even doctors, profs. or sport stars take drugs. As sad as it is. Its just a stupid generalization, I only read in the boulevard press before. Should I assume, that Vanessa Blue is "high" everytime ?Partly this is true, but I am smiling a little, if I look at the porn in the Netherlands or especially in Japan. 95% of US porn is tame and lame, if I look at the releases in Japan. But there are enough other companies. I never understood, why young US porn stars played with Max Hardcore, instead of starting with a softer amateur label. $ cant be the only answer. Girls and women are responsible for their own lives too.Thats true, we have fewer and fewer long runners in the porn industry. My danish girlfriend stayed for nearly 20 years in the porn biz, this would be almost impossible today. But the reason is only to a part the "gonzo" porn, but the glut and flood of porn, too many movies are shot in a shorter time. My danish girlfriend shot around 100 movies in 20 years. Nautica Thorne shot almost 500 movies in 5 years. Thats crazy, not healthy and she has slowed down. More models should say "no", instead of shooting as much scenes as possible in a month. And the - in the majority male - customers should avoid terrible brutal gonzo productions. Edited by - Caroline-NL on 2/27/2008 9:44:56 AM
absolutely well said. Its about time this was brought out into the open. I would love to see some shithouse gonzo male performer sent down for this type of thing. Fuck 'em. I hope someone gives them the kicking they deserve.
Excuse me if I repeat anything that's been said, I don't have time to read everyone's response at the moment-but I REALLY had to touch on this subject. This really pisses me off. YES, there is a large percentage of GIRLS in this business who do sex acts they would never do personally, they do it for money-and yes many of them do it under the influence to cope with the physical and emotional pain. You would be surprised, some performers' have a persona that I believed was true to their sexuality, and they trick the audience as well, they are plain and simple great performers. Unlike some people on forums, I'm not a gossiper or shit talker so I won't name names. No, I never done a gang bang in my personal life, but I did do a DP before porn (more than once), I enjoyed it and I wasn't under the influence, and I've NEVER been under the influence of drugs or alcohol during any scene. I understand where she i coming from, because stereotypes exists for a reason, but this is an ignorant generalization and assumption. As far as "pounding" goes, I like to be pounded-and I like to fuck back. If a guy can "pound" you good, it feels great hitting your cervix, if they know what they are doing of course! the fuck junkie ♠
I agree with what she says about gangbangs and "bukkake" or whatever that shit is, but this right here what she just said is just bullshit. I like energetic rough sex and I'm not a misogynist, so that's a blanket statement! What does this say about the women who like to be "pounded"? And as far as women doing all of the work? That's just dull, boring and unrealistic. If all porn was like this, not very many people would be watching that shit. You want to see women do all of the work while men get to be lazy? Rent a blowjob-only movie (which I can't stand). In reality, I can't see myself having the woman do all of the work because I'm just a lazy-ass bastard. Sex is a "two-way street". It's not all about pleasing one person who's on the receiving or the offering end. So, half of what she says is all bullshit! Edited by - Long Noel on 2/27/2008 8:55:08 PM
Just because a guy likes watching anther guy do all the work in a porn scene doesn't make the viewer misogynistic. Many guys like the woman to be in control just like many women like the man to be in control. Maybe the girl in the scene is just lazy and wants the man to take the wheel, or isn't really into it, and just wants to get the scene over with and get her paycheck. I have heard from girls who actually have rape fantasies for god sake. I think it is a bit unfair to psychoanalyze male viewers based on her own, Vanessa's, personal preferences in performing.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Feb 27 2008 : 11:09PM
I think it depends on the scene, I've found older S/M types tend to stick to top or bottom, but younger more 'sex positive' lesbian/bi/trans/gay types switch more. Just my
your use of the word "many" is ridiculous. I have been in the business for almost 5 years now and I work every day. I have seen maybe 2 girls do a scene while fucked up total. unless they show no signs at all, and are really good at hiding it, thats a crazy assertion. how the talent are treated on a set has absolutely zero to do with the longevity of a performer's career. the fact that there are more and more new talent agencies bringing in a boatload of new talent every day is the reason for the lack of longevity. or the fact that the big internet companies are constantly searching for new girls for their sites is another reason. Vanessa Blue is not performing boy/girl scenes anymore nor has she for a year now. So she is still "in" the industry because of her websites, but not in the context that you are talking about. She isn't in the industry like Sasha Grey or Katja Kassin or Teagan Presley is. You failed to mention that. I think it's disingenuous to make that statement, implying that she has been doing hardcore boy/girl scenes for multiple dvd/internet companies for 10 years. because you and I both know that's false.
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Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Feb 28 2008 : 9:55AM
I think quibbling over the word many is ridiculous. What makes you think that your observations are more valid then Vanessa's? Maybe you do not fall into the category of male performers she was talking about. Maybe the people that you have worked for were/are more professional than has been her experience. Who knows? All I can say that I've been poking around this forum and before that RAME and comments like Vanessa's from are not strangers to at least me. And certainly Vanessa, who has progressed into running porn businesses from being only a performer, certainly has no reason to lie about such things, as you and some others here have implied. In addition, I think pornlaw's comments seemed pretty credible. I thought that Di' Bella's post of what happened to her were troubling and support Vanessa's comments. If less then 5% of all of the scenes produced contained such behavior, it would be to many.
Christian's comments on my statement....Quoted from Christian's Blog - Chrisitian Sings The BluesPerhaps you should really remember what you blog about before you make any further comments on this topic. Christian's comments on Vanessa Blue's role in the industry...She is a feature director for Adam & Eve. Her most recent movie was released just over a week ago. Taking Memphis, Adam & Eve Pictures - Starring Alexis Silver & Trina Michaels Again, before you comment, you should really do your homework. Michael www.AdultBizLaw.com Edited by - pornlaw on 2/28/2008 11:49:18 AM
@pornlaw : Thank you for your research. Christianx statements are really contradictious. I think the USA in general have a major drug problem. Maybe this sounds strange, if I say this as a citizen of the Netherlands. We have a problem with softer drugs, but too many actors in the USA ( also in mainstream movies ) take harder drugs. But is the rate of drug users so much higher as in mainstream movies ? I am not so sure. Its more a problem of fast money.
I don't think fast money is the issue. I think the issue is a 'live for today' mentality which is pervasive in both the entertainment and service industries.
again, of course I remember what I wrote. You and Vanessa said girls were on drugs while doing performing a scene. If you refer back to my blog post, i said that only ONCE did I do a scene with someone, and I saw another girl once. What a performer does during their free time away from set is what I was writing about in my blog. my post, which I am sure that you understood, was responding to your allegation that girls are showing up and doing scenes while in a state of intoxication or high from drug use, which is untrue. second, again, being a director for adam and eve and doing 2 movies a year, hardly qualifies as being a performer in the business for that same year. you are attempting to obfuscate my point and it isn't working. Michael, please don't accuse me of not doing my homework when you are smart enough to know what I am talking about. As a lawyer it's your job to dissect statements and parse the meaning of it. clam digger, why would vanessa lie? I don't necessarily think she is lying and I understand that her comments were taken out of context. but you have to remember that this is a girl with a MAJOR axe to grind.
Of course Christian, the industry's drug problem you refer to as MAJOR only occurs "off-set." Do you expect the readers of this thread and your blog to believe that the drugs you mentioned in your blog are left at home, or not ingested prior to a scene ? Nice reach. Try again. How about Sasha Grey's statement ....Please address her statement that basically supports our previous statements.Again, she has twice the experience (10 yrs+ v. 5yrs) in the industry as you do and from several different perspectives (performer, director, webmaster, dancer, Playboy Radio and Playboy TV v. performer).She was approached by HipHopDX, she didnt seek out this interview. She gave an honest interview as to her opinions as opposed to starting her own blog to give her view of the industry. If there is anyone that wants to "heard" more than you, please let me know. Michael AdultBizLaw.com
I am simply stating that in the time that i have been a performer and on all the sets I have been on, that i haven't seen massive drug use ON SET during a scene. before and after? tons and tons. I guess I am splitting hairs here, so I will give you that one. As for you and Vanessa's assertion that a girl's longevity is shortened because the rough scenes she is doing.....I am still going to say that's completely false. The rise of the big internet companies means that new girls are doing easier scenes, not rougher. Wouldn't you agree that girls now have easier weeks rather than rougher weeks because of this? So please explain to me again how the types of scenes a girl does now, makes her longevity shorter? And when I say axe to grind, I am talking about her backlash towards her ex, Lexington Steele, whose company does many hard and "rough" scenes.
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Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Feb 28 2008 : 3:50PM
Christian, I think the axe to grind argument is just lame. It comes down that because you have different experiences than hers, does not invalidate what she has to say. Especially when female performers, like Sasha have made similar comments. It just may be that because no one is "power fucking" your ass, you just haven't noticed.
Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous? 4283 Posts 4/00
Posted - Feb 28 2008 : 4:05PM
OK, well, I've been in the business for 12 years, only two of them as a performer. Whoop de doo. Vanessa is entitled to her viewpoints on the business and the other performers' motivations. I just tend to bristle when people make sweeping generalizations about ANYTHING. "The girls who are doing these gang bangs and these bukkakes and all this crazy shit that doesn’t make sense, you ain’t sober. You're not sober when you’re doing it." I have indeed seen some girls who NEED to drink too much wine or NEED to get high before scenes, but in the majority of hard scenes that I've been on set for or knew the performers, I don't believe that the girl isn't sober.
