hey Mid, one thing to keep in mind is the progression of porno and its 'acts'. if people could package and sell barbie and ken videos they would, they sure the fuck would cost less to make. but, since everyone is trying to find something w/a new hook, you got all of us in XXX shooting a myriad of carnival sex act porno. and to defend 'gonzo' porn, I must say if it werent for 'gonzo', me and my whale bellied, beer swilling self would've never, EVER been able to do p.o.v.'s, which , correct me if I'm wrong, is about as hetero as it gets in this day in age. midtown, enjoy what you can bro. lates, Von S.
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Midtown Deactivated User
299 Posts 7/05
Posted - Oct 14 2006 : 4:31AM
POV titles are not gay - yet. But, just watch, some director is going to come along and screw up even this genre. He'll do a POV gangbang where the screen will be filled up with man butt half the time. Or, someone will feel compelled to do a POV "Strap Attack" with some chick jamming a dong at the camera.
It occurs to me that the solution might be to have more female directors. The male directors are, ironically enough, screwing up the product for the hetero male audience.
I know Carrie asked this question in an episode of Sex and the City. I think they finally came up with yes, it is. I always figured if I was getting off on seeing a cock getting sucked that it might be a little gay. I wonder if the penis can just be implied?
I want to point out that a lot of women get off on the idea of fucking multiple guys. Two of my favorite erotica series (written) feature scenes of women being pleasured by two or more men, and these are books written for women, by women. As far as porn goes, the more DPs and gangbangs I watch, the more I admire the girls that can pull them off. If a girl can receive pleasure from many men, and in turn satisfy those men all by herself, she's sexy to me. I think this might be why men like watching these types of scenes too. It's not 'cause they're gay and want to watch multiple aroused males in close proximity to each other. They get off on the girl that can take all those guys on at once. She's the focus, not the guys.
Why say no, when it feels so good to say yes. 117 Posts 10/06
Posted - Oct 14 2006 : 6:25AM
Gonzo porn is porn where the pornstars are aware of the camera being there. The girl looks at the camera, she smiles at it, she says something dirty to it. This type of porn will never die and you can't blame the genre of Gonzo.
The question should be asked, "are gonzo cameramen gay"? Because they are zooming in on holes which includes balls in the shot, taking angles from behind that include the guys ass in the frame, and show the guys face when he cums.
It's their fault, not the genre of Gonzo. Gonzo is just a style. Like POV is a style.
I think everybody else has said it far more succinctly than I can put it, so I'll just reiterate that if you think what you're watching on the screen looks gay, then I guess it is gay... to you. And if you don't like gay, then watch something else. There are a lot of great gonzo girl/boy one-on-ones out there to chose from. I enjoy watching DPs from time to time, but that's because I'm a girl and I get those occasional fantasies of being desired by two men at once. Is that gay? I can't say that I really care. Too much thought put into the heat of the moment. And as a female I'm not exactly the target demo for this market anyway.
Just find what you like. Over-analyzing what you don't like feels like a waste of energy to me.
NO. That male directors are screwing up the product for the hetero male audience is YOUR opinion. Since when were you voted as spokesman for the entire hetero male audience??
I agree, though maybe not for the same reasons. I long thought that heterosexual porn had crossed the line when the most revered and talked about stud, Peter North is not famous for his swordsmanship or his popularity with the ladies, no he's famous for his cum-shot Male masturbation ad nauseum. The camera might miss a women writhing in the grip of a powerful orgasm but will not miss a second of the guy whacking. It flys in the face (pardon my pun) of heterosexuality. It's not believable that with this sexy willing and paid female he'd prefer to beat off unless... he's straight for pay. His hands feel better than her available orifices. Directors cut it out. Your stud can't get off fucking Flower Tucci. The focus on assholes not the female ass. The asshole, the universal ass, although there is a God things are changing. Bald pussies, hairy pussies are so in your face mature female sex. Bald makes that overt female sexuality tolerable. She's barely legal, she doesn't demand anything I won't have to fuck her or put my mouth on that ghastly thing. All the things done to polish and improve the woman's form as if there was something wrong about it silicone, starvation, airbrushed blemish less Step ford dolls. Today I asked over at the gaytalk forum what is it that appeal to a gay man in hetero porn. I'm looking forward to the response. Is there a velvet mafia secret handshake and all?.
Why say no, when it feels so good to say yes. 117 Posts 10/06
Posted - Oct 14 2006 : 11:44AM
I would like to add, for all those reading this thread, a guy fucking a tranny is gay. Wanting to see more male rimming (where the girl sticks her tongue in the guys ass) is gay. If she stuck a dildo in the guys ass it would be called gay. So rimming must be gay too, you can't have it both ways.
Now you might not be 100% gay, but you have some gay tendencies which makes you bi.
Lets be honest here for once!
"Not that there is anything wrong with that." - Seinfeld
You can analyze this stuff every way sideways to Tuesday. Whatever porn you watch either excites you or maybe horrorfies you, and for reasons that have little to do with what happened in Chatsworth that morning than for what happened to "Little Jimmy Lee" up in the treehouse fort when he was 7. (A stack of moldy Penthouses, that early blossom of an 11-year-old girl with the six-pack of Mickey's Big Mouth, the frog, the firecrackers, you do the math ...). Watch what you like and enjoy. Or go to UC Santa Barbara and write a post-Freudian research paper on the gay conspiracy in straight porn and get a master's degree.
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Midtown Deactivated User
299 Posts 7/05
Posted - Oct 14 2006 : 1:56PM
Thank you, Lamont. I know other guys are thinking the same thing - Hey, what the hell's happened to "straight" porn? I don't think it should be a taboo subject. As for DancesWithPorn suggesting that the cameramen are at fault, I would have to disagree. The responsibility for this lies squarely on either the porn directors or the porn producers.
I never watch Peter North in anything. I have to agree with you on Peter North. He's really one of those male performers who I only ever hear women enthused about. That's wonderful for Peter North fans. I am not one of them.
In general, though, I think you guys are bizarrely overreacting. There are plenty of excellent shooters who know how to capture hot one-on-one sex, and also know how to frame multiple-mope circus stunts while keeping the focus on the girl and far away from the dreaded HMA (Hairy Man Ass). You don't have to be an expert to find these titles. And you can easily avoid the stuff you find offensively 'mo.
There are also a lot of crappy shooters, and bored directors, who don't really care, but that stuff sucks on any number of levels. "Too gay" would be about fifth or sixth in the litany of sins against Onan.
Gonzo porn isn´t gay porn in disguise. Sometimes there will be some physical contact between the guys. But in my opinion it is impossible not to have any physical contact between guys when they are dp/ing a girl. The guys don´t suck each other dicks or fuck each other asses.
Gonzo movies are mostly movies with nasty sex. Nasty sex means lots of anal and multiple guys in a scene.
Yes, you can. And you're wrong. If a girl does any of those things to a man, it's a heterosexual act. Homosexuality is characterized by who's touching whom, not the sexual acts performed. If a man enjoys having his wife fuck him with a strap-on, that doesn't mean he's gay. It means he wants to submit to her complete control for a time. That's not latent homosexuality. It's a level of trust and intimacy that any couple, gay or straight, should envy.
Why say no, when it feels so good to say yes. 117 Posts 10/06
Posted - Oct 14 2006 : 3:51PM
A scene opens with a guy masturbating with a dildo in his ass. In walks a girl who then says, "hand that to me" and she starts doing it for him. Is this scene gay or not?
Why say no, when it feels so good to say yes. 117 Posts 10/06
Posted - Oct 14 2006 : 3:59PM
Ok, scene with a guy bent over and he's saying "give it to me daddy, fuck me like a whore". And it's a chick with a strap-on fucking him. Because of the dialogue, is it gay?
Hmm, isn't gay the love between two guys (or two ladies) and not the love between a guy and his dildo or even a strap on? Until you see two guys gucking each other it isn't gay. Yes, gucking is gay fucking.
Even I have to say that you are a little obsessed on this topic.
Why say no, when it feels so good to say yes. 117 Posts 10/06
Posted - Oct 14 2006 : 4:13PM
Honestly I really don't care. I'm not really homophobic or anything and the sight of balls in a scene don't bother me. I just find it interesting what people consider gay or not gay.
I would think a girl fucking a guy with a strap-on would be gay. What if it's shot in POV style?
Oops, maybe not. I guess I got you, DancesWithPorn, mixed up with Midtown.
Click to expand
They both seem to be confused about what is gay and what is not gay. I don't understand what is so difficult about it. It is only gay if 2 people of the same sex is doing sexual things to each other. What a man and a woman does to each other is heterosexual.
But what I would like to know is. Why do we have to have these kind of discussions about straight porn being gay all the time??
Why say no, when it feels so good to say yes. 117 Posts 10/06
Posted - Oct 14 2006 : 4:25PM
I say if you can suck your own cock you are lucky. If you watch another guy do it while stroking it, you are gay!!
If you rent a male masturbation series, you are watching gay porn.
If occassionally balls or hair man ass is in your girl/boy flick, it's not gay.
Here's an interesting question, if the guy is at the top of the screen while the girl is sucking him off or fucking him, is it gay? I say yes cause then it's like he's fucking you. LOL
I think this discussion,thoughts and observation from this side of the camera about the industry are healthy. There is no doubt the industry needs to evolve, if left to those on the other side of the camera there is no way of predicting which way it would go.
They are not us. Our interest and theirs parallel, but in general are not the same.
I have not found it be true that porn as it is has something for everyone. DancesWithPorn asked for suggestion about what I believe should be porn mainstay, passionate sex without the clowns and dancing bears, no one was able to offer much help.
I listed a few ideas on another thread. Try Jonni Darkko's stuff. Unless amazing sloppy wet deep-throat BJs count as dancing bears, I think it'll be suitable.
John Strong's "One On One" series is good, as is Manuel Ferrara's "Ass Attack" series. Both emphasize heat and chemistry between male and female performers. Check out any scene/movie starring Julian. He doesn't do all the circus act stuff, and rarely works in b/g/b scenes. Although chemistry is hit-or-miss with him, but there's a lot of heat generated with certain girls.
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john thomas Deactivated User
1168 Posts 6/06
Posted - Oct 14 2006 : 5:48PM
The basic argument of those who categorise some sorts of male/female sex play as "gay" is one that would have been recognisable to the ancient Romans. It runs like this: to be a man is to be dominant, aggressive and, above all, to be a penetrator sexually; to allow yourself to be penetrated is essentially womanly and (therefore) shameful; all those who are not penetrators but penetrated - women, passive homosexuals, men who enjoy being anally pleasured by a female tongue or finger, or being the passive recipient of a woman wearing a strap-on or a shemale - all are to be lumped together as unmale, effeminate, second-class human beings, or, in the modern prejudice, "gay".
The idea that men and women might be equals and the sexual realm one which men and women can explore together as equals, unbound by gender roles that say men must act only like this, women only like that, will remain forever an alien idea to them.
Edited by - john thomas on 10/15/2006 10:00:14 AM
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Midtown Deactivated User
299 Posts 7/05
Posted - Oct 14 2006 : 6:52PM
I hear a whole lot of hemming and hawing going on here. But, when a male porn director films another male sucking a realistic looking strap on dildo, I don't care who that thing's attached to - it's gay. For Christ's sake, even the gay community would acknowledge this fact.
Ummmm.....what have you been watching? I haven't seen this in anything that wasn't made to specifically cater to people who like it. In fact, I haven't even seen a male fucked by a strap on in anything I've viewed.
I know some gay people. Most of them are revolted by the idea of having sex with a woman.....even a woman armed with a strap on dildo. Gay men like MEN! They DON'T want to see women in a sexual context. They (in general) like big, muscular, masculine MEN. If you don't buy this, go to where groups of them hang out and ask them what they'd think of a woman fucking them in the ass with a strap on.
This may be news to you but the male anus has a great big honkin' pleasure center known as the prostate located just inside it. Aside from submitting to the woman, a male who enjoys this has most likely discovered that anal penetration feels good and is capable of increasing the intensity of the male orgasm exponentially. You would deny yourself greater sexual pleasure for fear of feeling gay?
In my view, a man isn't gay unless he's actually attracted to men. Obviously, these men are attracted to females or they wouldn't be beating off watching women.
I think you've really gotten at the "heart" of this matter. Seems people do have their ideas of what is or is not gay. Outside sites like this and maybe porn circles in general, there seems to be a lot of people who think any sex acts with more than one guy is totally gay or bi, or at the very least...suspect. I here it said or suggested all the time. Someone talked about an episode of Sex and the City, and I seem to recall even Howard Stern outright saying that any act with with more than one guy is "kind of" gay. Seems people fear what they can't understand. To them, certain acts like any double-penetration, concentrated facial, gang bangs, multiple creampies, or male submission has to be gay or at least bi. I say you can call it whatever the fuck you need to call it, but as long as the chicks are hot, just fucking call me. Sure I prefer one-on-one, but if she's hot enough, I'll pretty much watch her in damn near anything. The way I've always watched adult films, and for the most part, I've rarely been truly disappointed doing it that way. While there may be some guys who watch films by championing the guy, I believe most ultimately watch for the chicks. Seems obvious to me actually, and can't be anymore hetero either!
I'll also simply say this. Porn isn't real! I don't care how enjoyed the sex is, it's simply not real. Sure the sex is real in the fact that real penetration is happening and real oral is happening, but it's all contrived somehow. I know plenty of 40-50 year old guys, and not one of them is regularly fucking 18-19 year old women. It is all pure fantasy, and fantasy rarely mimics real life. I don't see anyone calling mainstream actors like Arnold or Jet-Li murderers. I've seen most of those guys films, and never have I once thought about commiting violence. I believe people watch films to relax their minds and bodies, and to somehow live vicariously through whomever we see or care to see onscreen. The average person will never be Meryl Streep or Denzil Washington, nor will they ever be Teagan Presley or Erik Everhard.
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Midtown Deactivated User
299 Posts 7/05
Posted - Oct 15 2006 : 3:49AM
The long term effects of people exposing themselves to visual images of extreme sex acts has yet to be seen. My guess is that we are creating a generation of very sexually disturbed persons. Maybe (hopefully) the producers of some of this gonzo crap are dragged into court enough times to decide that it simply isn't worth it.
Disturbed meaning what? Some sex act you personally prefer not to see? Are you the arbiter of sanity? I suppose then we could just nuke it all and start again from scratch.
Porn producers are responsible for what, producing the material? They don't force people to watch it. If people choose to watch a legal product, that and the effects are their own buisness. Don't blame others. As adults all the responsibility is with each individual.
I just wanted to add that thanks to this thread, I have discovered that I am actually gay:~
The last time I masturbated, you see. It was a male hand stimulating my genitals.
Following the logic that a woman doing a guy with a strap-on is a "gay" act, the fact that the ambovementioned masturbation was performed with my own hand is, it seems, irrelevent to this discussion.
BTW, great thread. I had a ball reading it.
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_swede_ Deactivated User
579 Posts 4/05
Posted - Oct 15 2006 : 9:44AM
so what who cares. Obviously gonzo is very popular and people keeps buying it.
I just fast forward if there is something I don't like watching. I don't see why we need to analyze this :P
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john thomas Deactivated User
1168 Posts 6/06
Posted - Oct 15 2006 : 10:01AM
Thanks scipio. I've just edited it to make it a little more readable.
The other thing here is that there's alot of disagreement to the terms of the question. What is "gay", and what acts constitute whether something is gay or not? Is the question that the directors are gay? That the performers are gay? Or is it that people who like watching certain types of scenes are gay? Before people know the answer to these types of questions are, they won't be in rhetorical stasis. John thomas is doing a good job of presenting his take on it though.
absynth makes the heart grow fonder 434 Posts 8/06
Posted - Oct 15 2006 : 12:53PM
I love these threads...
I still haven't figured out if porn dudes actually tongue down a chick after she's been sucking another guy's cock or if it's just really shoddy editing... :P
Edited by - absynth on 10/15/2006 12:56:33 PM
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Midtown Deactivated User
299 Posts 7/05
Posted - Oct 15 2006 : 12:56PM
Would you like to/have you done this in real life? If so, then aren't you at least bisexual? In American society, women have less of a problem acknowledging their bisexuality. It is the men who are extremely resistent to the notion that they might be bisexual or even gay. My point though is that if porn producers are cranking out stuff that essentially amounts to gay porn, then they and the viewers of it should be a little more honest and above board about the whole situation.
absynth makes the heart grow fonder 434 Posts 8/06
Posted - Oct 15 2006 : 1:03PM
Our society's views on homosexuality (as opposed to those of other countries) makes it uncomfortable for men to show feelings of sensitivity, let alone show feelings of "love" (has there ever been a more abstract word?) towards any man who is not of blood relations. To the same extent, it is expected that females will form a close sisterly/maternal bond and not thought twice of when they show physical signs of affection.....
Innocent Girlfriend Rewards Him With Pussy - review by Captain Jack
Posted - Oct 14 2006 : 2:35AM
