Hey guys I've been following porn for a few years and I still don't really understand how there are Porn production companies in Florida. What am I missing here? I know that Porn production is illegal outside of California ever since the Miller case, so how do companies in places like Miami get away with it? Companies like Bangbros, Reality Kings ect. Does anyone have an idea? Thanks. - on a side note, the fact that porn can only be legally made in one state is ridiculous. I wonder if this will maybe change in my life time. This is supposed to be a free country after all... -
Technically its not, but the court system and the police probably have more problems to worry about then porn directors. I dont think the current system will ever change ,because I thing both legal experts on both sides of the issue are afraid to bring it to a federal judge,because of fear they might loose so it will probable stay in the gray area. People are shooting porn all over now.
In an older thread, Miami vs. Porn Valley, about 9 or 10 posts into it, poster "pornlaw" says "Florida is not a safe place to shoot porn." But for a reason you wouldn't have thought of - the civil liability. That's what I remember about Florida porn.
My guess would be that they have an understanding with the authorities there. You don't generally see smart people taking massive legal risks unless they're reasonably sure they're going to be OK. Now maybe they're just a bunch of lucky dummies but I assume anyone who can run a business for any length of time has at least some smarts.
People tell lies my friend. Some people like publicity. I don't like publicity. 674 Posts 5/11
Posted - Nov 19 2011 : 5:23PM
There is a large gray area as to what is legal and what is not. I never understood it. Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought producing porn is not illegal, yet distributing it some places may be illegal. I thought Max Hardcore was found guilty of distributing adult material, not for producing it? If the authorities choose to launch a witch hunt on you, you are pretty much screwed in their backyard. It is like the Feds prosecuting someone, they always win one way or another.
Plenty of amateur pornmakers/sellers are based outside of California, making no effort to hide their location, frequently including their location on their webpages. NYC, WashingtonDC, New Orleans, Texas, Florida....are some I am aware of without doing any research. Rodney Moore is based in Seattle and occasionally shows the Space Needle in his outdoor scenes. You'd probably need to be a lawyer or a D.A. to know how big/small is the actual risk in your locale.
Pretty sure he wasn't the only one distributing his movies but I could be wrong. I don't see how could have managed to distribute his movies far and wide without anyone else being involved. Seems to me they were clearly after Max. Edited by - randomprecision on 11/19/2011 6:36:32 PM
I'm pretty sure the issue with Max Hardcore is that, a number of his movies were found to be obscene. It was the distribution of obscene material that got him in trouble, not the mere fact that they were adult movies.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Nov 19 2011 : 7:09PM
My understanding is that most cases involve distribution because once you move the 'obscene' porn across state lines it becomes a Federal offence and so the Feds, who under Reagan and both Bush administrations had the time and inclination to pursue anti-porn prosecutions, could then step in. State governments can prosecute for obscenity as well and there's a long history of that but since most modern porn production has become concentrated in California due to the Freeman decision State prosecutions have become rare, although Ohio and Utah as known to pursue prosecutions vigorously in the past (and why some companies won't ship there). Florida is an odd case, as the Feds cherry-pick states and areas where they think the population is conservative so they have a better chance of winning the case when selecting a jury from that area. That's why they chose to prosecute Max Hardcore there, and it clearly worked. Yet the State authorities seem to be looking the other way. I would guess that's because outside of porn circles the fact that Florida has become the second-biggest site of porn production in the US is unknown by most of those of a conservative cast in the state. They've been good at keeping their heads down so far, but I would guess that if it ever became an issue around election time the entire industry in Florida could find themselves being ran out of town since they don't have anything like the Freeman decision to protect them. The Feds don't always win, they've lost many cases over the years. Not only the recent Stagliano case but also huge case against Adam and Eve in the 80s, who continue to be one of the most successful 'adult' companies in the US. They never could get Reuben Sturman on obscenity either, they had to go after him on tax and rackteering charges. Edited by - BlackSix on 11/19/2011 7:16:28 PM
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Nov 19 2011 : 7:20PM
I believe they ordered some of of his 'European versions' right from his site. Other distributors avoided those versions because of the content (piss, fist-fucking and vomit) so Max may have not been the only source for that most vulnerable of content to prosecution but he was probably the main source. Clearly they were after Max, I don't think anyone, including the Feds, would dispute that.
Max was a easy target, because he was way there in shit he was doing. His fascination with the little girl and lets not forget the Brianna Banks aka Mirage shit were she basically breaks down and crying. Hell the only scene he ever did normal were the Anna Malle scenes.
^ Not entirely. He wasn't so bad back when he was Paul Little/Max Steiner, so Max Hardcore was either a progression of his misogynistic tendencies or a new persona created to cater to a particular crowd, and I guess only he knows which one. However, I will note that he didn't have a lot else going for him. Anyway, if you watch the scenes Leanni Lei did with Max it is pretty clear that she set the limits and Max had to go along with them. That isn't to say that she wouldn't let him do anything, she even let him piss on her, but that she, at least, had some control over the situation.
In Miami, there's the Exxxotica Miami Convention that goes on every year. I think it's in it's 6th year now. The local companies are there: Bang Bros. with the Bang Bus inside the convention center. I've seen uniformed police inside and outside the convention center. I would say Porn is tolerated in Miami.
People tell lies my friend. Some people like publicity. I don't like publicity. 674 Posts 5/11
Posted - Nov 20 2011 : 1:14PM
I think you have something there. The Feds prosecute only when they feel they can win which makes sense. A lot has to do with the values of the community and their ability to influence a jury. There are not that many places that DVD adult sites refuse to ship their products. Parts of northern Florida were excluded from BushDVDs shipping area but now they do ship there. Utah and Tennessee are the other states they will not send their products which is a yardstick as to where not to distribute adult content. About Max Hardcore, what difference does it make when he portrays the women as underrage? It is a film, nothing more. Porn is fantasy. The girls have to have ID showing their true age, that is all that matters. The whole Max issue was an overreaction and a witch hunt that was baseless. What is obscene to some is not to others so the definition has no merit. And the Feds know it.
I'm sure those citizens who are anti-pornography will say that such prosecutions have merit to them, and the prosecutors find merit in such prosecutions in the sense that they get the votes of those folks come the elections. Granted, it isn't as if those opposed to porn have no other tools at their disposal to curb the distribution of adult material in their areas. However, they don't want to curb it, they want to root it out completely, plus they get to feel superior when they send somebody they dislike to jail.
Sorta off topic but... Sex toys are still illegal in Alabama... 2009 Alabama Supreme Court Decision... Parts of the US still arent as "enlightened" as others. Be careful out there. Edited by - pornlaw on 11/20/2011 3:21:23 PM
I also thinks even states that want to are careful about prosecuting people for producing porn. If the state loses (like with Freeman in California), porn production is suddenly fully legal in that state. So they don't want to risk setting a precedent. Pornlaw might know if any other states tried a prosecution similar to Freeman and won. Jacco
There have been several that I have heard of and a few more I have been involved with. One case involved a webmaster who was prosecuted for just maintaining an escorting website... he was merely a paid employee (a little off topic but still within the free speech realm). However Jacco is correct, many prosecutors do not want to set a precedent and open their state up for being the next porn capital. Therefore a lot of the criminal prosecutions start and end with a police investigation and thats usually enough to scare off some wanna-be porn producer from taking his/her business any further. Those cases you will never hear about though. However there are other ways to harass producers - even in LA. I have been called to several sets over the years where police were on set because the producer was shooting without a permit. In LA thats a misdemeanor and carries a potential sentence of up to 1 yr in jail. It hasnt happened recently because of budget cuts but about 3 yrs ago the Mayor set up a task force just to police movie/porn sets.
My thoughts exactly. I think the reason for this is because since money is usually involved with porn, the "higher ups" see it as prostitution, obviously an ignorant claim on their part.
Well, you can never discount the impact that religion can have on things. I think it may have started that way. But now there are a lot of Americans who aren't even religious who nevertheless have utterly stupid prejudices against porn. Hardcore sex negative feminists tend to be some of the people in that category. I would venture to say most of them are agnostic or atheist. A lot of Americans are just raised to be biased against porn (and sexual freedom in general) and they don't even know why.
Actually, I guess you could look at it that way but that would have little impact on someone who doesn't think prostitution should be illegal either. Actually, the laws against prostitution are even dumber than the attempts to define porn as obscenity.
I know that in Michigan you don't want to make porn. It isn't just the prostitution laws (which carries 20 years all by itself) but our fornication laws to watch out for. A recent change in law makes fornication eligible for LIFE in prison without parole. The actors all go to prison for life and the producers still get 20 years each for "prostitution"! Too bad, Detroit could use some jobs right now and porn would be a job producing entity.
"You have sacrificed nothing and no one." 3689 Posts 8/10
Posted - Nov 23 2011 : 6:17PM
You would think that, such draconian penalties would violate the Constitutional ban on unreasonable punishment?
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HollywoodBilderbergGroup Deactivated User
Undiscovered Genius 361 Posts 7/11
Posted - Nov 26 2011 : 12:36AM
Yes myfriend. America is the free-est Country but it also has the wickedest laws, I don't care what anybody who isn't from here says. We're pretty petty over here.
With that said, as soon as I get a couple more stacks I'll be shooting Porn in Washington DC. If lawyer has a problem with that (becuz those will be the ones to complain in the first place; just for a pay check), I'll just keep doing me. I'm not too scared of Porn Laws. They're mainly just tools used to scare people into being more Churchful. The only reason why Cali gets so much respect in this is becuz they're the Innovators, the rest of the Country and the world (i guess) is just following in their footsteps.
Put it like this... I could end up getting locked up for shooting the shit and if I have to stand in front of a judge and explain my case (with confidence) then I will. Once you've been to court enough times you learn not to be so scared of everything and every word (and every charge)... Edited by - HollywoodBilderbergGroup on 11/26/2011 12:39:56 AM
Our state appeals court just ruled that the law was not unconstitutional, actually. We will see if it gets appealed to Washington or not. As I said, it is too bad the Michigan state government is not accepting of fornication and prostitution, Detroit could use some porn companies moving in and creating jobs.
Trophy Wives 2 - review by Captain Jack
Posted - Nov 19 2011 : 12:37PM
