I hear this all the time from non-porn folks, women activists and former pornstars converts. Odd thing is these girls say nothin when they are still working in pornvalley but hurl the first rock as soon they are out the door. Is it just unfounded personal bitterness or is the industry really overly sexist? Sure there are porn sites that cater to humiliation and rough sex but they dont necessarily translate to mysogyny. I dont work in the industry or know anyone that does so happy to hear from some industry insiders.
The politically correct crowd is filled with people who have all kinds of personal insecurities.... political correctness in itself, is phoniness. It is FAKED behavior, in order to cater to the insecurities of people who cannot deal with reality. Lust is lust, and while it isn't always a pretty or "loving" thing, that doesn't mean that it's hateful, nor does it mean that it is against an entire gender. The people who say that porn is misogynistic are the same people who say that if you don't want open borders, you have to be a racist. Or if you criticize the policies of Obama, you have to be a racist. These are people who are trying to force you to cater to the things that they are utterly insecure about, by handcuffing your mind.
If porn is misogynistic then sex behind closed doors is misogynistic. Something doesn't magically become misogynistic simply because it's done publicly instead of privately.
There are many different kinds of porn, some of which might be legitimately described as misogynistic. Portrayal of humiliation and physical abuse of women in a porn setting looks misogynistic to me. But this kind of thing is only a minor genre of porn. At its core porn is about sex and sexual gratification, which is a perfectly natural human desire to have. There is nothing misogynistic about horny guys wanting to bang sexy women, or showing something like this on film for others to see. Edited by - Dan on 6/16/2012 10:02:28 AM
Good point, the blatantly misogynistic porn is just a sub-genre and does not fairly represent porn as a whole. Edited by - more_cowbell on 6/16/2012 1:20:31 AM
When most people talk about porn being misogynistic, they aren't really talking about the actual act of having sex on camera. They're talking about how the industry is run, how scenes are shot, about the power structure of the whole thing. And while I think the answer is no, porn is not inherently misogynistic, it's an interesting conversation to have. Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 6/17/2012 12:43:15 PM
^Sorry some might but when I think of mysoginistic porn. I'm thinking about sex where the guys pretty much treat the women like walking fuck holes. You see a lot less of that these days but it was rampant 2 years ago and before that as well. See the type of porn that Nacho normally shoots and you'll get a good idea of what I'm talking about. Some will say that he plays a role and that he's really nice but I frankly don't care since it's what is on screen that matters. The women in Nacho's scenes are normally treated like a ragdoll which he will fuck in as many holes as she will allow and he will do so in such a way that it's hard to believe that she is enjoying that. Of course if you want to believe that a woman loves to be pile driven up the ass while having someone else's foot in her face then please disregard everything that I said because we will never agree. The bulk of the stuff Max Hardcore shot in the last few years before going to jail was pure mysoginistic porn. All the stuff FA does is also pure mysoginistic porn.
^ The Merriam-Webster definition of 'misogynistic' is "having or showing a hatred and distrust of women". I don't see how you can say that the guy hates the sexy woman, when all he does is bang the crap out of her pussy, ass, and mouth with his cock. Such a statement makes no sense to me at all. Because the guy obviously has a big erection going for the pretty lady, which implies sexual lust and not hatred. Unbridled sexual lust of a man is not the same as a feeling of hatred for a woman. Only anti-porn crusaders would try to equate the two in order to make porn look bad. It's true that sexual lust has long been considered a big sin according to Judeo-Christian traditions. And it's understandable how some people might confuse sexual lust in their minds with other things that they also see as sins. But when you think about it logically and not emotionally, then you will see that equating sexual lust with hatred makes no sense at all.
I would suggest you can portray unbridled male (or female) lust without the face-stomping,face-slapping,nose-pinching,spitting-on,fish-hooking,puke-inducing deepthroat,etc,etc. @NiteFlyte777 I think you'll find it was the Meese Commission, under Reagan, that launched the first major attack against porn,including criticism of of it's alleged misogyny, so it's quite likely those who are anti-porn are also anti-immigrant and prone to criticising minority communities a little more harshly, based on assumed political allegiances. Edited by - David Cop-a-feel on 6/16/2012 12:14:51 PM Edited by - David Cop-a-feel on 6/16/2012 12:15:49 PM
What do you expect? Professional atheists spend most of their time attacking religion. Professional anti-porn zealots spend most of their time attacking porn. They're morons. Ignore them.
Oh yes, dear. Porn is misogynist. "Women-hating" does not have to mean "I wanna beat and stab women and put them in an oven." True hatred does not have the passion of one-on-one violence. The purest hatred is apathy - not caring at all. And porn, an industry devoted to sexual pleasure, approaches that apathy by having a strong pattern of ignoring the very basics of women's sexual pleasure. I'm not talking about anything complex like that old bullshit "women aren't visual" or "women need emotional attachment" or "women need storylines in their porn." I'm talking about the simple pleasure of having onscreen attention paid to the clitoris, the most direct route to orgasm for most women. The severe imbalance of attention paid to pleasuring the dick vs pleasuring the clit clearly demonstrates a severe lack of care about whether the women performers have or the female audience sees orgasms. This imbalance clearly demonstrates that most of porn has focussed on pleasuring men to the exclusion of women. That women are screaming orgasmically all the time at the slightest touches from men only enhances this conclusion: the women are not screaming for their own clitoral pleasure but for the men's pleasure. MEN feel an explosion of pleasure when their dick enters pussy; MEN feel like erupting with joy when their dick enters a woman's mouth; MEN feel like they're at play in the Elysian fields when that asshole relaxes enough to open for further entry. And yet, in most pornography it is the WOMEN recipients who are vocalizing this pleasure. Male actors are frequently encouraged to quiet down on set so that only the women actors are heard on the final reel. This is so that the MALE viewer will be able to place himself in the fantasy. There is no thought for the female viewer. It is a perfect twist: in pornography, the source of women's pleasure is fantasized as coming from men's pleasure; women's pleasure is to serve men and male orgasm. In pornography, the pattern is that men get orgasms and that women's orgasm's derive from men's orgasms, not their own clitoral stimulation. The male viewer gets to have his orgasm cake and to eat his guilt from ignoring women's needs, too. Pornography's only saving grace is that it is not any more misogynist than the culture around it. Porn is misogynist because the world is. Porn is not special or different from the rest of society in its willful ignorance of the clitoris. My solution for reducing the feedback loop of misogynist porn >>> misogynist culture >>> misogynist porn is to magnitudinally expand and deepen the sexual education curricula of our public school systems. Removing the obfuscation and, in some cases, outright lies that exist in American sexual education will be more of a sexual revolution than anything the liberal-but-still-totally-patriarchal pornerati could ever manage to generate. I hope you've enjoyed this introduction to my Masters thesis. You may check out one of the 2 black-leather-bound copies from the Main Library at Vassar.
Let us remember that "political correctness" is a reactionary insult thrown at feminists and other liberals who began to take their activism to language itself in the late 80's. It was re-popularized in the early 90's by Dinesh D'Souza's book _Illiberal Education_. Taking the racism, sexism, etc., out of language irks some conservatives, but it doesn't matter cuz they lost: words like "African-American" and "Native American" are now much more common in public language than "Blacks" and "Indians".Yep, that's right. Lust is lust. Not complex at all. No shades of gray. Yup. Sex could never be used as a weapon either, right?Yep, that's right. Liberals are liberals. Not differentiated at all. No differences of opinion. Yup. Liberals are a unified block with no divisions, right?No..your friends are just calling YOU racist, niteflyte. Perhaps you should take down the poster of Obama in a gun sight. =)Typical response of someone with privileges that cause pain to other people. "It hurts my knee to take my boot off your neck *pout*"
To everyone who's saying "oh by misogynist you meant that rough sex porn in the corner over there well that's just a small part of the industry Max Hardcore was arrested that's just gonzo that's just Euro directors that's just the fetish crowd blah blah blah" I say: No. When feminists talk about porn being misogynist, they are talking about mainstream porn targeted to straight males, be it Ed Powers or Kink.com or Throat Gaggers or Vivid. It's less about the "Slap Happy's" of the porn world and more about the complete ignoring of the crown jewel of most women's sexuality: the clitoris. An analogy would be if there was an industry dedicated to showing people eating for pleasure, and men got the food in their mouths and the women got the food in their nose.
I reject the idea that pornography is misogynistic at heart. I also reject the implication that all pornography is made in one place for one market. I will agree that porn is mostly made by men for young males who don't have much, if any, experience with the opposite sex. However, mostly does mean always, it is just that the biggest market doesn't know about, and so doesn't care about, a real world portrayal of sexual conduct. It only cares about having a fantasy world where sexual gratification is quick and easy, because it sure ain't gettin' any in real life. Also, being of that age, it buys into the sexual equivalent of the large explosions and action sequences it sees in the mainstream movies it watches on the weekends, when its parents let it out of the house. So, yes, I'm saying that today's porn is largely, though not entirely, made for teenage virgin boys. But... what about the stuff that isn't? What about Girlfriend Films? What about Comstock Films? Why do outliers even exist if porn is this monolithic monster that arises from misogyny?
Saying porn objectifies women and therefore misogynistic is a somewhat fair argument. But I don't think porn causes objectification unless a man is isolated or shallow to begin with. How you view women in general will be determined by the women in your life during your development and your current relationships. Ultimately ALL women aren't objectified by porn. Only the women we lust for. Before you say that's just as bad let me ask you this. If some women use sexual attraction and lust as a weapon against men (think Delilah) what's wrong with objectifying that lust for what it is. You're not changing the nature of our lust for attractive women. You're exposing it for what it is. A shallow animalistic attraction with no genuine integrity or merit. Lust based on physical attraction IS shallow and should be exposed. But that doesn't dismiss the value of love and companionship based on the non-physical. Unless the person watching it is an idiot who already undervalues the non-physical value of love and companionship, then porn can re-enforce that blindness. Edited by - more_cowbell on 6/16/2012 1:27:04 PM Edited by - more_cowbell on 6/16/2012 1:27:55 PM
Random: 1. Thank you for announcing my inevitable arrival. 2. I actually appreciate the thundering honesty of your admission about not caring about whether porn hurts women. I wish everyone were honest with their lack of care instead of snivelling about it. Most people don't want to be called sexist, but they don't want to give up their sexism either, so they twist and lie and say things like "I'm not a sexist but fuck them bitches who want shit." You are brave, RP. Your chest is out. You are a person I can talk to and understand.
@bustdown gal I don't feel porn is misogynist because it's male-oriented. Most guys don't want to see a guy make realistic love with a woman. Real sex is give and take. You do things to please your partner when you'd rather be doing other things. Yes there are men who are givers but most guys don't want to see a guy serve a women's needs realistically. Many of us want to see a fantasy regardless of what women truly want or need in the bed room. Wishing for a more male gratifying sex isn't misogynistic any more than a woman wishing for a guy to be more romantic, despite his natural tendencies, is man hating.
dingdingdingdingding! Dan wins the prize for the most unintentionally revealing comment of the day. Here we see our Dan cluelessly admitting that sex is about his dick's pleasure and not the woman's. To Dan, she is a recipient, a receptacle, with no agency or sexual pleasure organ of her own to be pleased equal to his pleasure. This is the DEFINITION of dehumanization, and most men like Dan call it "normal sex." Now do you understand, even slightly, the radical feminists who say things "all sex is rape" in a world where men just "bang the crap out of" women with no thought to the woman's pleasure? If you don't care about our pleasure, then you must not care about our pain, either. In the close quarters of sexuality, those 2 feelings can be millimeters from each other. So if you're shut off from being connected to us because you're just "banging the shit out of us", you can hurt us and not even know it (and according to Random Precision, not even care).Ah yes...love based on hunger. Kinda like cheetahs "love" springboks, huh?That's right. Because rape doesn't exist, right?
In simpler terms, Porn is shallow because physical attraction is shallow. Porn is the most honest portrayal of the shallow nature of physical attraction in existance. Does it emphasize the non-physical value of a woman like love and companionship? No but that's not it's job. It's fine to enjoy it as long as you see it for what it really is.
^ Don't go too easy on higher education. Outright misogyny may not be institutionally present, but sexism is -- in the classroom, on the syllabus, and at all levels of administration. It's much better than it was though. To answer the OP: imo, not at it's core, but in some of its practice, like all media. Culture/society is misogynistic, so the output of culture/society is often misogynistic. Pornography is a space where rhetoric and representation are exaggerated and grotesque, so aspects of culture become especially magnified in pornography, particularly race and sex/gender (intersecting with each other). Personally, I often find the forms of misogyny present in mainstream culture more unsettling and frustrating than those in porn. Many theorists have argued for the value of vulgarity and grotesqueness in connection to representations of sex/gender, and I find myself agreeing with this a lot of the time.
Exactly. Gay men do all the same stuff period. Not just gay porn stars. And did before gay porn was really available to gay men everywhere. Things like blowjobs, facials and oral cumshots have nothing to do with a person's gender. And probably never have. Edited by - randomprecision on 6/16/2012 4:53:27 PM
I don't see what rape has to do with consenting sex between adults in porn. You are changing the subject here, instead of admitting the fact that sexual lust is the cause of men's desire to fuck and not hatred.
This. Explicit sex is not defacto mysoginistic. It's how that explicit sex is depicted and while I disagree with Bustdowngal's conclusion that apathy is the same as dislike, therefore qualifying it for the misogyny tag, 99% of porn is for men by men, with little to so concern for women except in how they complete a male sexual fantasy. The other 1% is by women for men or women who have basically subscribed to a male definition of sexuality (you really think it was a woman's idea to suck a cock out of another woman's ass? repeatedly?). But here's the thing: as opposed to what? Like all art it's merely a reflection of society, a patriarchal society. Sadly saying porn doesn't give a crap about women is like telling me water is wet. Look at Chris Brown. Beat his girlfriend to a bloody pulp and his career suffered for maybe five minutes. And the culture is so persuasive even she and her family don't seem to care. Elected female officials get banned for using the word vagina in front of men trying to legislate those same vaginas. And I won't even get into Charlie Sheen. One of the most misogynistic things I ever saw in my life was an episode of CSI and I guarantee you no one thought twice about it, much less wrote letters or organized protests. Even the actress playing the role made sure to tweet when the episode aired. This is more disturbing that any shit Max Hardcore has ever done because it was on the #1 show in America. Max Hardcore went to jail. CSI spawned two spin-offs. Is porn misogynistic? No. Sexist and apathetic to female needs? Without a fucking doubt. But again, not caring about someone and openly desiring or actually causing them harm are two entirely different things. Oh and FYI: the people who complain about political correctness are the people who don't feel they should have to stop calling women, minorities, etc what they like calling them simply because women, minorities, etc don't like it. You know, the kind of person who doesn't think they should stop calling a disabled person a cripple. Edited by - DarkPlaces on 6/17/2012 1:21:42 AM Edited by - DarkPlaces on 6/17/2012 1:25:25 AM
Just want to say this thread, the 'Porn is totally fake' and 'Low caliber women and American porn?' threads are the best Porn Pool threads in some time. Great reading and some interesting conceptual cross-overs. Carry on everyone...
People critizising porn haven't watched it very much, but the opinion that porn is misogynic is so established it's no problem claiming it as fact, and defending it makes you a pervert. And all feminists are of course lesbians pissed that girl-on-girl porn lacks ugly butches.
There's this thing called the First Amendment. Ever heard of it? We don't need free speech unless offensive speech is protected. Has anyone ever needed free speech to say something popular that doesn't offend anyone? Nobody should have to stop saying anything. I personally don't go around using terms like "slut" or "The N word" but I understand that people are going to be rude. It's normal human behavior and it's protected under free speech. Do you have any idea how many times I've heard people making fun of epilepsy? Do I like it? No. But that's life.
And BDG, the reason I said I wouldn't give a shit if it was is because in a free society, it doesn't matter. If you don't like the majority of porn the way it is, buy porn you do like and stop blubbering about it with this pseudo-intellectual bullshit. Porn is a product. A market. They are selling sex to many people who are probably not getting much of it in real life. And frankly, that customers is generally a male. Women don't tend to have problems procuring sex. It is not supposed to be politically correct and you have no business demanding that it should be.
There's this thing called "not being an utter asshole" ever heard of it? There's a HUGE difference between speaking out on injustice and using a term you've been asked to stop because the person to whom it refers finds it offensive.Well, I wouldn't want you to sack the fuck up and tell them to stop because it's asshole behavior.... And last I heard no one made being an insensitive asshole against the law, but guess what? An insensitive asshole shouldn't be surprised when other people take a dislike to them and treat them accordingly. It's not against the law to call someone a cripple, but it's also not against the law to either shun someone does or in fact fire someone who continues to use that term when told it's against the policy that company. So yeah, free speech guarantees the right of someone to be an utter dick, but don't pretend they aren't being an utter dick by waving the flag around or saying "Oh, that's life." It was once "life" to do a lot of shitty things to a lot of people but we've stopped.
What is the core of pornography? It is sexually explicit, uncensored, unhidden sight of sexual act that has been created in some medium to evoke sexual titillation in the audience (although some sexual acts might not seem to be sexual to regular audience when they are done to titillate certain fetishist). To me, that is the absolute core of pornography, and just based on that no-one can say it is misogynistic at its core. It all depends on the content and the production. Some porn is misogynistic, some isn't.
Yeah, as if there isn't rampant MISANDRY present in mainstream culture. These are the bullshit talking points of insecure, liberal, militant, feminists, who do nothing but wage a gender war, which has succeeded in causing greater gaps and insecurities between men and women, and thereby increasing the amount of same-sex relations because of it.
Bust Down Gal, You are WAY too invested in this issue... but that is the case with the people who come with these elitist type of political spins, as though hardcore sex/lust between men and women is "anti-women", or "women-hating", or any of that CRAP. It is the same type of bullshit that seeks to make women insecure, while vilifying men. To put it bluntly - why the fuck would I listen to someone insecure about human sexuality as though such a person would have any true knowledge about it? And please, touting your "education" is another result of your insecurity. You cannot simply speak your take/opinion, and feel the need to pump it up by trumpeting some sort of certificates or accomplishments in academia. If you truly had some insights with merit, no such chest-beating would be necessary. By the way, we all know that colleges are filled with liberal/PC bias; so when you blare out that this is the source of your momentum, you actually succeed in giving yourself away. As such, I don't need to ready your mountains of PC talking points, of which the hypocrisy is glaring.
You obviously have some pent up issues... Brow-beating others to use politically correct words is representative of the phony nature of an insecure person, wringing their own hands over their personal issues, and then projecting those personal issues onto everyone else.
============================================================= So if I (theoretically) called you a "hand-wringing little biatch", would that make me an asshole? The problem with PC security guards such as yourself is that you've created a society where everyone plays a victim, and is utterly offended by any and everything that doesn't completely cater to their HUGE amount of personal insecurities.
I don't claim to be that familiar with mainstream culture, but I'm not nodding my head in agreement over here. Assuming we can all agree on what 'mainstream culture' is, I'd like to see a statistically relevant number of samples of the presence of misandry in it. What can you point me to?
I just got done taking a stats class... I know that many of the stats that people use for political purposes, are quite flawed. Take the "Kinsey" stats for example, with which were used to state that most men are homosexual to a certain degree. Well the HUGE flaw was that he didn't obey the first rule of statistics - Ensure that the sample field is completely random. The stats Kinsey took were from many men who just got out of jail... and there were many others surveyed from gay bars, and so on and so forth. So I don't know about specific facts, but speaking from my own personal experience, I clearly observe how the men of today have become feminized/effeminate. I have also observed how masculinity in males is furiously attacked, yet celebrated in women; conversely femininity in males is celebrated, yet furiously attacked in women. OR one can easily look at television/movie roles, where men are portrayed as dumb, ignorant, unable to adjust, while women are portrayed as intelligent, together, and the saviors. ONE stat that just came to mind, is to look at college graduates.. I believe there HAVE been some specific studies on this exact subject, that demonstrate how girls/women have been supported and encouraged, while boys/men have been shunned. I don't think though, that it's hard for anyone WITH AN OBJECTIVE MIND, to look at American society, and see how manhood and men in general have been vilified, and women have been portrayed as victims. ALL women in the past were poor, oppressed slaves. NONE of them were happy. They were all just bought and sold by evil and oppressive men. These are the notions that have been taught to the current generation. What's funny about this, is that if you listen to music of old, it is all about deep love, passion and commitment, and today's music is all about self, sex and shallow bullshit. Gotta love today's PC terms like "loving relationship". The translation of that is two people acting as nothing but partners, where the relationship and "love" is performance based. As soon as either person doesn't feel completely gratified, they are out the door. OLDSCHOOL love (ie REAL love) meant that you were dedicated and committed to someone, and it wasn't about what you get, but about giving to a person because of how you felt about them (ie you actually LOVED them). Anyways, I digress..
I've started and stopped writing a few times here wondering if I even wanted to participate in this mess... but here goes (short version). Porn in itself is not misogynistic anymore than any medium or format is. But there are certainly people out there that would have us believe that sex on tape is by its nature violent and misogynistic and deadly. And that makes it more difficult to discuss the topic around people who are not part of the ADT crowd. Its even difficult here. Porn suffers from most of the same issues as popular culture. Which makes it deeply flawed, and some times misogynistic and sometimes even misandristic. Even though I might be biased in the sense that I can't even spell the latter word, I think its quite obvious which of the two is the bigger problem in popular culture. For those who want the reasoning, I suggest they start another thread rather than spew their biases here. Edited by - JohnW on 6/18/2012 1:03:15 PM
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David Cop-a-feel Deactivated User
Trust me, honey, it gets better 323 Posts 10/10
Posted - Jun 17 2012 : 8:59PM
Well any mass-marketed media product,like porn, exist as more than a "product".You could argue they function as a channel for communicating particular cultural ideas,mores,assumptions, attitudes,etc. So the consumption of porn of a particular type (or,perhaps, any type) may colour the consumers view of sex and gender-relations. I'm not an anti-porn crusader,obviously, but surely you can admit there may be some truth to it?
And most feminists would say that anyone with an objective mind would see that America is a patriarchal and misogynistic society, where men are privileged and women oppressed. You could demonstrate misandry in the media by digging up examples of Homer Simpson type men contrasted with smart and capable women, but then feminists can find plenty of examples of misogyny in the media too. I see both men's rights and feminist groups playing the victim using cherry picked examples and manipulated statistics to exaggerate their case. There are specific causes and campaigns from both sides that I'm happy to support, but on the whole I find identity politics packed full of self serving bullshit. As for porn being misogynistic, I think that's a ridiculous word to use when just complaining about porn being male-centric. That's simply a case of pornographers designing their product for its primary audience, not some kind of women hating political statement. I do think it's a bit of a shame that mainstream porn doesn't focus more on the woman's pleasure. It's certainly true that it often shows women just being fucked by men, rather than equal people pleasuring each other. But that isn't hatred of women, any more than a porn scene showing nothing but cunnilingus would be hatred of men. I'm inclined to give blatantly violent/misogynistic fetish porn a free pass too, one that I probably wouldn't give to anything in the mainstream media. Someone's sexual fetishes don't necessarily make any sense, let alone tell you much about them. What turns someone on doesn't automatically reflect their view of the world or how they treat other people. Lots of women have a submissive streak, or even rape fantasies, but that doesn't mean that those women are self hating, or that they act submissively outside the bedroom. The same goes for men too; you just have to look at how many powerful men enjoy being sexually dominated by women. No hatred or genuine disrespect is required for someone to enjoy doing the dominating either. I feel the same way about the porn that reflects those darker fantasies. Even if it's portraying a scenario that'd be violent and abusive in real life, I still wouldn't call the porn itself inherently misogynistic, not if the people involved are consenting and well treated.
Another overly sensitive effeminate male no doubt, and thus you weren't able to grasp the point. Whether he is a "hand-wringing little biatch" or not, he is going to claim that he isn't... but if he is, should I not be able to state such? With political correctness, you cannot tell the truth. THAT was the point. And sorry if my comments hurt your delicate sensitivities.
Ah, yes, the victim card. Have you noticed that some people here have argued in favor of one or the other view on the topic but still managed to be nuanced? The question was about possible misogyny in pornography, while you've basically turned it around to be about oppression and persecution of men throughout society. And while I don't condone name-calling, you can't claim to be the victim of political correctness here. You are awfully eager to lump everyone who argue against you (or porn) into a group with very specific characteristics (feminists, Obama supporters, people not against immigration, effeminated men, educated, and the list goes on) and you diagnose them with "insecurities". And on top of that, apparently there has been a conspiracy to neuter and mold all men into something new going on in the last few decades. It shouldn't surprise you that people object to such generalizations.
Oh, and you will find idiots, semi-fascists, pricks (pun intended), and douchebags within the feminist camp, as you will with any other camp. And that never proved anything. Edited by - JohnW on 6/18/2012 1:03:27 PM
Much of the attacks on porn which claim it to be misogynistic are from the very same people who have waged war against men. Porn is used as a convenient tool to vilify heterosexual men.I haven't claimed to be a victim of anything, and obviously you are defensive of the assertions I have made.Yep, but most of those who are ok with it, will try to play it off as a joke.People usually object to generalizations that apply to them.I have no idea what point you are trying to make here.
