Jenna Jameson

Good story either way...I guess porn stars aren't good enough for those so-called bad boys of the military?

That news didn’t go over well with at least one senior enlisted Marine. Master Gunnery Sgt. Larry Kuzniak, assigned to Marine Corps Air Station Cherry Point, N.C., said he couldn’t sleep that night after reading the news on the Internet.

Must have been another goddam bible-thumper...

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I went to one of those when I was in and it was the most boring goddamn thing ever. But I had to go because our stupid-ass Colonel decided he wanted us to have our own squadron-level Marine Corps Ball and EVERYONE had to go, so if you didn't want to buy a ticket, you got to have a chat with the Sergeant Major. So I went, and believe me, it would have been much more entertaining with a porn star there.

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Traditions are bullshit.

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"Vegetarianism for me is about saying ‘yes’ to things - even meat." - Coupling

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Hour long speeches=not that great of a night out.

Having a porn chick there would have been a big deal, but I really don't think there would have been many guys complaining about it. The wives would have been bitchy though.

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You know, I was gonna stay out of this one, cuz as one who made a career of the military, I thought my view might be discounted, but as bright as I know some of you people to be, I'm surprised at some of what I'm seeing here and I just had to comment.

This isn't that tough to figure out, nor is the Marine Corps wrong in the position they've taken.

Yes, the Marine Corps is filled with 19 and 20 year old guys overflowing with testosterone, and sporting heavy libidos and healthy sex drives. Many of them are probably fans of Jenna Jameson and probably more than one J.J. dvd or poster can be found in the barracks at any given moment.

But as institutions go, the Marine Corps is still a very traditional one and still a very conservative one, driven by very conservative people with mostly conservative social ideologies. One of the attractions of the Corps and it's lifestyle is that when life, culture, and society all about you is adapting and changing, inside the Corps, very little changes about how the Corps operates, what it tolerates, and what it is comfortable with. That's not right or wrong, that's just the way it is.

These military balls, (of which I attended a few), are very traditional, very formal, dignified affairs, (at least they start out that way. Smile.), full of pomp, circumstance and decorum. They are one of the few opportunities for service personnel to look their very best and be on their very best behavior in a glitzy setting.

And more importantly, and this is what I think a lot of us here are forgetting, it is one of the few bones the military service throws to the wives and ladies of the servicemembers. (Yeah I know there are husband spouses now, but that is still a rather recent development.) The military asks wives and S\O's to put up with a lot of shit with the military life, and one of the small bones they throw them is an affair like this where they can get dressed up, treated royally and made to feel special for one night.

Rightly or wrongly, many of these military wives and female S\O's would be hurt or offended by the presence of the biggest porn star in the world on the dais or in a position of honor and endorsement by the Marine Corps, however indirect, at a function that is specifically for them.

Sometimes it's easy to forget when we're all in this ADT room, that much of the world is not as culturally mature and aware as us, as enlightend as us, and certainly not as liberated sexually as us, or as comfortable with that aspect of life. In a situation like this, the Marine Corps is on very solid ground with not wanting to be put in a position to offend many of the people it's trying to celebrate, or to be seen as making an accidental social comment it didn't intend to.

If one of the Marines had wanted to bring J.J. as HIS date, he probably would have been counseled against it just from the distraction it would cause angle, but I'd like to think he wouldn't have been prohibited. But to ask the Marine Corps to be comfortable with J.J. as the Guest of Honor, or even the guest of the Guest of Honor, in this setting, is asking a little much.

Now starlets, strumpets, and pretty girls from Betty Grable to Marilyn Monroe to Joey Heatherton to Raquel Welch to Jenny McCarthy and Carmen Electra, have been providing the troops with plenty of T and A for decades, with full and official sanction of the military, even so far as to take the hoochies* to far flung places where the boys are. And seen in that light, in today's world there is probably a place for J.J. to contribute and be appreciated by the Marine Corps. And the Marines have said as much. They're not so naive as to not know that porn has made a place in today's American society, and certainly in any American society filled with 19-22 year old men with spending money. If J.J. shows up and volunteers to go to a cave in Afghanistan to cheer up the boys, as many other Hollywood types have done, I'm willing to bet the Marines will find some way to accomodate her.

But not at this time, at this place, under these circumstances, when wives and families are being asked to sacrifice so much and to give their men over to die.

And none of this is a reflection on J.J.

BSD

* - Just kidding.

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xoxo
Devinn

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Because as the biggest porn star in the world, J.J. is never, not a porn star.

And that's not the media's fault.

That aspect of giving up her notoriety, especially in a public function or public setting, is a pipe dream. Her ability to protect and maintain a private persona only goes so far as her ability to control her environment. Even it there was no media present, and there isn't usually much at these kinds of things, there would be plenty of people there who knew who she was, that would soon set the room a-titter, with a good chance of the emphasis and focus of the evening shifting from where it should be, to her, no matter how low-key she tried to maintain things.

And she has to know that.

BSD

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I'm sure after so many years of living in the limelight she's aware of the fortune and misfortune of fame. A huge reason why I never wanted to be like Jenna Jameson.

I admire her, but I wouldn't trade my privacy for anything. It must be really hard to always be "on" in public and deal with the constant scrutiny of the conservatives.

xoxo
Devinn

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I Know I Don't .

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Who should be ashamed, and what should they be ashamed of?

That American citizenship or American birthright doesn't grant automatic access to every private affair and function that takes place in America?

BSD

Edited by - BSD on 11/2/2006 2:32:42 AM

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I know I wouldn't.

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Edited by - kitarana on 11/2/2006 4:16:16 AM

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That said, I think it would be great if Jenna did a USO tour. Not that she'd be allowed to go to Iraq, given her profession. Guys and gals aren't even supposed to have porn over there. It's contraband. Come to think of it, it would be unfair for the guys stateside to get to meet a porn star in person, when their brothers-in-arms in the combat zone will get punished for possessing one of her movies.

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That said, if the Marine brass don't think Jenna's good enough to be their guest, why should she go out of her way to entertain their troops?

If I were her, I'd favor the Army, the Navy, or the Air Force with my patriotic energies.

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Well, I spent my 25 years in the Navy Submarine Force and attended quite a few Navy formal affairs and balls.

I feel pretty confident in stating that the Navy would likely take the same dim view as the Marine Corps on the idea of Jenna Jameson as the Guest of Honor at The Navy Ball.

Can't speak for the Army and Air Force, but I think they would feel likewise.

BSD

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There is nobody I respect and admire more than those who are serving and have served in our armed services. They are true heroes who are willing to sacrifice their lives for our freedoms. And they picked someone who fights in a pay-per-view sport? Jesus, Jenna has more legitimacy as "quarterback of the Lingerie Bowl" than "Tito Ortiz", "Ultimate Fighting Champion." He's not even a marine! Why not just get a professional wrestler or a member of the Insane Clown Posse?

How about inviting some actual WWII veterans who fought for our country and are now passing away by the droves every day? I'm sure they'd enjoy a nice meal and the audience would appreciate any stories they would tell.

I hear the Corps have got a fill-in for Tito Ortiz. He's last year's "SlamBall" MVP.

Brian

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All I can say is that I hope Jenna wouldn't demean herself by bestowing her time and energy on any organization that'd only be willing to admit her into its hallowed halls by way of the servants' entrance.

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And I think that is a pretty weak and inaccurate mischaracterization of this situation. And I know that you are bright enough and sophisticated enough to know that.

I'm of the opinion that some are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill and trying to shake out a story where there really is none.

"Servants' entrance", huh.

I've already opined that I think the Marine Corps would have had no problem and no comment on J.J. attending this ball as a guest of one of the troops. They did have a problem with her being "Queen of the Ball", so to speak. For a variety of legitimate, real world, reasons, many of which I've spoken to.

So this "servants' entrance" metaphor is just so much crap.

And remember, the Marine Corps didn't invite, uninvite, or deny J.J. anything. They invited this UFC guy to be their Guest of Honor. They asked him who would be his accompanyment and when he told them, they told him that for this event that would be inappropriate and would he reconsider. Then, HE had a decision to make. He made it, the Marine Corps made theirs, and everybody goes on about their business. End of story.

I'm sure that if the Marine Corps and J.J. continue to travel in their own particular orbits, and never come in contact with each other, neither will be the worse for it.

BSD

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"Vegetarianism for me is about saying ‘yes’ to things - even meat." - Coupling

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I was only responding to certain hypotheticals raised in this thread insofar as I smelled hypocrisy, and not primarily to the news itself. As far as I'm concerned (as noted above) the Marine Corps can call its own shots in matters of this sort. It's their party, so whatever floats their boat. Their cultural standards have no meaning for me -- nor, I'm sure, do mine for them.

But since you've made some pointed comments, I'll address a few of them:

You can act like a baby about this if you want, but I'm confident you've got the picture.

Whatever you write next wins, cuz I'm gone.

I've been civil, gracious, informative and reasonable about this, and I'm just not gonna get drawn into any messageboard foolishness that you might be interested in. The topic has run it's course and I'm gone.

BSD

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And Jenna Jameson is not capable of these things??

This has nothing to do with her "being a part of every event", or her rights thereof. This was a blatant tap on the shoulder of Mr. Ortiz, the invited guest. Had he invited someone that was non-porn (or even a civilian), was the USMC response going to be "sure, we like her, she's ok"? I'll bet if he brought a nice, lil' church-goin' gal from Georgia they'd suck it right up! This has more to do with our conservative shithead government and their shun & lack of acceptance towards people who's practices they don't agree with.

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Edited by - Mojo on 11/4/2006 2:31:14 PM

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Every so often, America really shows its puritan roots.

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I respect your service to our country. But your posts on this thread are essentially a rationalization for this:

The USMC in this case are AFRAID of petty-minded social stigma.

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The universal response to this story is 'WTF????'.

I'm disappointed.

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Yes, that's exactly what's being celebrated at this Marine Corps function. "Murderous violence." Not young men and women's sense of duty and honor. Not the sacrifices they have made. Not their accomplishments or service. It's going to be a BIG PARTY ABOUT KILLING PEOPLE! The few, the proud, the organization that kills. That's all Americans and our armed services do, isn't it? Just randomly kill people indiscriminantly? That's what a lot of you think, don't you?

And Eric381, I guess our military isn't that "precious" to you. You must think you live in one of those countries that doesn't need a military. Or if we do need a military, have it be a military with none of that "conservative shithead government" stuff, you know, like honor, tradition and respect.

You make it out like these are two, shy, retiring people who were shunned and denied their "rights" to be invited to a military function. Jenna's so upset about it she posted the entire article on her website (it's since been taken down.)
My gosh, it's like the many ethnic groups that have been discriminated against in our country's history. I heard they were even going to set up a "porn stars/Ultimate Fighting Champions only" water fountain. Let's get the ACLU involved in this. Please. Come on. Bob. Mojo. Six Demon Bag. Jewel. Eric831. A highly visible promotional opportunity for an adult film star and a pay-per-view "fighting champion" is BEING DENIED! And this must not stand!

I'm sure Jenna Jameson is a very nice, young woman. But like Devinn Lane said, there is a time and a place for everything. A formal military function is not the place for Jenna Jameson OR Mike Ortiz. If you don't like that (or the United States Marine Corps for that matter) than please move to a country where it is.

Brian

Edited by - Brian_Wallace on 11/4/2006 6:35:05 PM

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I also disagree with your statement that the S/O's that this ball is for are ASKED to put up with so much. They aren't asked to do anything. They chose to be with a person who had the type of personality to choose to enlist in the military. The draft hasn't been enacted since before I was born - and I'm not that young anymore. These people choose to be a part of a military life, and if they want to pretend that they didn't know ahead of time what a military life encompassed, then they need to learn how to make decisions about their lives better.

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The USMC in this case are AFRAID of petty-minded social stigma.

I don't care who did what, when and/or how they did it. Experience is a lead contributor to information, sure, but this is about a bunch of so-called bad boys afraid of how they'd be viewed because they allowed something that isn't socially acceptable

Point being, "screw what everyone else thinks". The USMC showed their cowardice in this particular instance, as far as I'm concerned. And for what, all because a porn star was the date of their chosen guest of honor? Get real, no wonder this country is so fucked up.

They lost their honor when they felt it was necessary to even SUGGEST that someone wasn't good enough for their company. This isn't about a celebrity guest, it's not about promotion, it's not about marketing yourself. It's about their "conservative, shithead" dumping all over people they deem unacceptable to society...so typical of most Marines I've met.

Here's an idea Brian, YOU MOVE. I'll stay put until someone does it for me. I pay taxes, that's enough for me to express my opinion. Don't like it, shove it up your tight, conservative ass. I support our troops (emotionally) in war, but I HATE ~ yes, I mean HATE ~ the motherfuckers in our administration who've killed off thousands of them. There's a huge difference between disliking an organization (in general) -v- the people who control it -v- the people who make themselves a part of it. As a collective society, we are far too passive towards the people we pick fights with...so spare me how tough the military is.

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It's so wonderful for a group of jarheads to run around deeming what is & isn't socially acceptable.

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I appreciate duty, honor, sacrifice. That's all peripheral to the real job of the military. Let's talk straight. You go to war, you KILL PEOPLE. You join the military, you train to KILL PEOPLE. Do you deny this?

You can only fall back on typical bullshit like this:

Let us get this straight:

An organization whose job is violence invite Tito Ortiz to an event, because he is famous for a violent sport. He wants to bring the person he loves. They do not want him to do this. Because she is famous for exhibiting sexuality. And that is a dirty, immoral thing.

Edited by - six demon bag on 11/4/2006 6:30:58 PM

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Edited by - the unknown pervert on 11/4/2006 6:45:02 PM

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I'm sorry for the confusion.

Brian

P.S. I'm sure if the USMC was guaranteed that there would be no press, media or paparazzi at the event, they might have stood a chance. But that's not the way things are with Jenna are they?

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I am not starting a campaign to change the Marines decision. I am not saying 'I hate the Marines.' I simply disagree with them and am sayin so.

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When did the military become equal to sainthood?

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To respond to all of the things you just said would be getting far away from the thread topic and I'm not interested in that at this point.

I will present one fact to correct you. The average age of a first term Marine's wife is 20 and 1/2. And the vast majority of them are from theirs and their Marine's hometown, which is generally Anytown U.S.A. And they have rarely grown up in a military environment. Most have little to no knowledge of what they're really getting into with being the spouse of a military member, especially a young one where they have little control over what happens to them, and when the pay is almost never enough to meet expenses in the high costs areas where the military is concentrated. Then, what generally happens soon after marriage and relocation to a strange place far from home and family, is this 20 year old wife gets pregnant, while her Marine gets deployed overseas and has to leave her to fend for herself. Right now, fully thirty percent of our first term military members with families qualify for, and are receiving some kind of public assistance, (welfare, Women and Infant Children (WIC) subsidies, etc.., to make up for shortfalls that military pay does not cover in high cost areas like the one I live in here in San Diego.) These pressures of military life, and others, are dramatically illuminated in the very high incidences of divorce and domestic abuse among our military personnel, as these stresses overcome many of them.

So to say they all know about or should have known about these kinds of things, at 19\20 years old in a strange institution in a strange locale with no family support close by, is untrue and unrealistic. I trust you had your shit completely together and were completely ready for all the challenges that life had to offer when you were 20 years old, but many, I would argue most of us, don't.

It's pretty obvious that a lot of folks here like to view and argue these things in great philosophical or hypothetical perspectives, making sweeping characterizations of organizations and people in them, and attaching all kinds of other meanings and causes to the simple issues at hand. (We go from the guest register at the Marine Ball, to celebrating murder and killing? That's a good one.)

The Marines and all servicemembers, are not the ones who make or set policy, and they do not set the agenda for the kinds of things that many of you, and oftentimes me, find objectionable about our government and country. They are people, many of them your brothers and sisters, or in my case, your fellow porn lovers. Some of you might do well to remember that in all your histrionics about the Military this or the Military that.

Jenna Jameson was in no way, shape or form, harmed here. She was not punished for anything, she was not denied any rights, nor were she or her character impugned. Her boyfriend was merely informed that her background and high public profile, were inappropriate for this PRIVATE event. Nothing more, nothing less.

Finally, to you Tricia since you also felt compelled to pick apart my thoughts, you are entitled to your opinion, and there is no requirement to delve from a deep knowledge base to form one. Anybody can have one, and I respect that. But I will say, that I'm absolutely sure that you know quite a bit more about business and making movies than I do, and I'm just as positive that I know quite a bit more about the military, it's people and how it operates than you do.

And leave it at that.

BSD

Edited by - BSD on 11/4/2006 7:15:12 PM

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