I think U.S. girls are willing to take it up the ass. I think the real reason it may take time is they have better agents and more information on the business. That means they will control their career. Why give up the ass if they aren't going to get paid well for it? That means come in first as a straight sex performer, then if they hit big and get a following, either rise to contract girl status or leverage their new girl fame into a few very expensive anal scenes. A girl that enters the business and starts right off doing anal will burn herself out and make herself less valuable. Take a hotty like Marie Luv. I never really mentioned it on the threads where she was pushing for a contract, but Marie Luv most likely could have gotten a contract if she had managed her career differently. Once you step into the world of gonzo and do everything up to DPs and gangbangs, you don't have as much leverage to get in with a good company. Teagan is one of the few girls that was able to hit the gonzo scene pretty heavily and yet still get a contract with Digital Playground. I wouldn't be surprised if there were issues when she decided she didn't want to do anal anymore since they paid for a star with contract girl beauty that does anal. So I think American girls entering the porn industry are more careful about managing their careers than the girls who came in when anal first got big and it was being pushed by producers and directors. The girls didn't have agents and other girls telling them to leverage that ass into a good payday. That's what I figure has changed. I've read more than a few interviews with porn stars where one of things they regret is jumping into anal. It isn't that they were unwilling to do anal, it's just that if they had known that it was valuable to porn companies they would have waited to leverage it for a bigger payday. In an industry that sells sexual fantasy, a new girls first anal is worth some money. New girls coming in are learning to get paid for that first time they give the male porn viewer that first satisfying anal with their favorite new sexual fantasy girl. I think it's smart. A good agent will advise these young girls of the value of that first anal. Edited by - A-ten on 6/23/2008 10:02:02 PM Edited by - A-ten on 6/23/2008 10:03:17 PM
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Porn Scout Deactivated User
3735 Posts 10/02
Posted - Jun 24 2008 : 12:04AM
A-Ten, you're right, except that this isn't anything new. We've been talking about the porn star career cycle (for lack of a better term) for years on ADT. Also, there's been an agent infrastructure in the business for several years now. I can't imagine that girls entering the business today are getting much different advice than they were 3-5 years ago. But, I don't think there's any doubt that there are fewer "do everything" girls in the business than there were 3-5 years ago, so something must be going on. I think part of what's going on is that with American directors no longer shooting in Europe, there are just that many more scenes being shot in the US, so there are more opportunities for girls to work without taking it up the ass. Another issue is that LA Direct seems to be consolidating more and more of the talent, and most of his girls don't do anal scenes. It makes me wonder how much power Derek Hay is exercising in Porn Valley. To what extent is he influencing the types of scenes that are shot?
Yes A-ten you're right. In the US there are often planned porn careers from the beginning. In Europe girls don't act like business women, they want the fast money. For me as porn consumer I prefer the Europe way, because I didn't have to wait years to see a girls very first on screen anal and maybe will never seen it, because the girl retired before. Also not to do anal over years in European porn won't work, because at some point nearly nobody will book you anymore. So if you will survive as pornstar you have to do it after a few month (Regina Moon and Aletta Alien aka Doris are the latest examples). In US porn it seems not necessary to ever do it (Gianna or Tia Tanaka are long in this business and are very successful until today without anal). So if somebody wants more anal, you should look for the Eurobabes.
I think the is the key why there are so few new girls who do anal in US porn today. And that's why I hope so much that more of the good directors go back to Europe soon. It seems like Manuel Ferrara shot a few of his new movies there, and I hope that directors like Chris Streams, Erik Everhard or Mike John will follow soon. And if you're right Porn Scout, this would also push some more American girls to do more nasty things like anal or dp, if they want to have enough work. Edited by - camaban on 6/24/2008 9:41:46 AM
What's hot about porn if you know the only reason the girl does it in front of the camera is money? It's a business and like every business you have to produce what the market wants. If it's hot or not depends always on the actors who perform and the director behind the camera. Some do a good job, some not, like in real life also! Edited by - camaban on 6/24/2008 11:06:52 AM
[Double post, sorry! Edited by - camaban on 6/24/2008 11:07:13 AM
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Porn Scout Deactivated User
3735 Posts 10/02
Posted - Jun 24 2008 : 11:59AM
Yeah, what camaban said. They all do it for the money anyway. It's just a question of how far they go. Girls don't suck dick on camera for all their friends and family to see just for the fun of it.
Of course they do it for the money. And if they get offered big money for anal and they agree I'm fine. But you mentioned the lack of pressure due to less shooting in Europe. The girls in Eastern Europe are up for anything because they have no other options. A starving stomach gives bad business advice. I prefer watching porn which was shoot in a setting where the girls feel comfortable. Porn girls should have a legitimate work environment like we all have in our jobs.
What you say maybe is true in Russia , but for sure not anymore in Prague or Budapest. No girl there do it because they need the money for food! Like I said before they just don't plan a career in porn, they want to make as much money as possible in a short time. And anal and DP gives extra money, so they do it. Nothing wrong for me with that, indeed find this better than to plan the right time for a first anal because then you can make the most profit of it (Sunny Lane for example).
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horndogger Deactivated User
229 Posts 8/04
Posted - Jun 24 2008 : 5:08PM
Camaban ... my Eurobabeindex friend !! Good points. The thing I don't understand is why the agents are holding the girls back on doing anal ? For example Carolyn Reese. In her interview with Adam she stated she performs anal in her private life but not on camera yet. Ok, so she and her agent make the fans wait and hope some director will pay her big $$ for her 1st ON SCREEN anal but meanwhile her popularity goes down and eventually nobody really cares. Again, what I don't understand is why the agent, who is paid a percentage of her income, does not get her to book the anal scene and therefore make more $$ for himself ? I think the agents have to do a better job in determining the breaking point for a career. A lot of girls are leaving the business having never shot anal or any other scenes that pay bigger $$ therefore the agent hasn't made as much as he could have either ??? The Dog
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Taylor Von Bailey Deactivated User
2116 Posts 8/06
Posted - Jun 24 2008 : 11:48PM
If I were a male performer I wouldn't want to do anal because I don't particularly enjoy it anyway and I think it is a lot less safe and uncomfortable then vag sex or oral. I am not a doctor or anything and far from an intellect but I see the lack of anal interest in a lot of girls is just for their own safety or security. Perhaps, it is a waiting game like suggested here too. That's totally cool with me because I think the performers should be making top dollar for their hard work so good for them for holding out until they get an attractive enough offer. That's what Amy Reid did...probably a whole lot of other girls too.
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conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Jun 25 2008 : 12:17AM
You wouldn't do it because it isn't uncomfortable enough for you?
I think we can assume a performer is most bankable after she's built up a following - market value. It's been said before in this thread that having that bankable performer cross the anal divide before she can actually maximize what I'll call R.O.A, is a loss for agent and performer. My guess is that all agents work to build a client list that's large enough that, for all those girls who may leave without ever catching fire, there are a couple real stars who have enough of a following to make their first anals something the market will go ape-shit for. At that point, higher fees are justified. It's like in real life, the girls who you can screw on the first date are often not the girls you value most. The girls who can drive you crazy by making you wait for it increase their value each time they turn you down...to a point anyway. The free market at work.
when do you ever understand that contracts don't pay much? If a young, cute, natural girl starts porn and says she's gonna do it all, non-exclusive and works for very company that pays her rate, that's when she makes the most money she will probably ever make. I would have never been anybody in this business if it wasn't for the anal, dp's and IR scenes. All the advice "don't do anal", "don't do IR" are bullshit. that doesn't hurt your career, it only makes you more money. It's true that if you start anal, then everybody wants to book you for anal scenes and maybe the simple b/g are not offered as much and I see the point of a girl wanting to get some b/g scenes under her belt before she starts anal but it's not that doing anal would hurt her career. she just wants to get away with less for a while. A girl that does anal gets more bookings, more box covers, more exposure, not only makes more per scene, also can get more work offers and if you are really, really good at it, it can lead to a long stable career because producers will always fall back on you if they need a strong anal performance. so it's BS to say that once you do anal you are "shot out" and your career is over.
a very wise man once said to me, "don't worry about first anals, don't worry about some girls getting paid 5 times your rate for their first anal, just think about all the money they lost along the way by not doing it"
Katja I hear ya and you certainly would know. I was simply trying to make the point that a talented performer who has built a following and then ads anal to the repertoire will bank more money than someone who has no following, lacks talent or star quality, but chooses to do anal right off the bat. If that doesn't reflect the real porn world then I consider it a lesson learned. Still I consider your line "if you are really, really good at it" to be telling. There are a lot more women doing anal who are not "names" than long term superstars like you who no longer have to literally hustle their ass off to make it work. Somebody'd have to be a total fool to believe that anal kills careers. For the right performer it absolutely makes careers, you're living proof.
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Porn Scout Deactivated User
3735 Posts 10/02
Posted - Jun 26 2008 : 1:38AM
Girls can get shot out, but I think that has more to do with bad career management than doing anal scenes too soon.
Yes that would sell much more better But I respect it, if girls begin with pussy only sex.
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A-ten Deactivated User
581 Posts 8/07
Posted - Jun 30 2008 : 7:22PM
Just seems like sound career management to wait on the anal. 1. Start with nude modeling. 2. Maybe do fetish videos. 3. lesbian 4. boy-girl 5. anal and beyond Make as much as you can at each tier. Not everyone will be a Katja Kassin. She just seems to have the knack for giving great performances and looks good on-screen. Katja is one of the only women I've ever enjoyed watching do a double anal. Maybe Aurora Snow is one other where it looks like they can handle it and still appear sensuous. Most women can't handle the type of sex Katja has done, probably not built for it. That thick tiny body of Katja's is a porn asset. It can take more than alot of the slimmer in the hip women. I imagine careers are different depending on look and management. If more young American girls are coming in wanting to be Jenna Jameson or Jesse Jane, then we probably won't be seeing anal from alot of them. Sad for me, but there are still plenty of beautiful European and Brazilian women willing to do anal that are every bit equal or better than American girls in beauty. I buy a ton of European porn star porn. They just seem to make better porn, probably because the women do appear to be more willing to engage in nasty sex.
The true words of a Goddess. I hate it when people tell the newest girls not to do gangbangs, DAP, IR, cum drinking, etc because people will get tired of them or their careers will be cut short. Actually one of the things I look for in a new girl is if she does anal, DP, swallowing, etc. You wouldn't tell an aspiring Hollywood actress to tone their acting down for their first few gigs so that they can have a longer career so why feed that bullshit to the newest girls? Katja has done it all from the start and continues to do so and is as amazing as ever. Aurora Snow and Melissa Lauren are other babes that have done this too and both started as teens. These stars should be idolized by any girl wanting to get into adult acting. Instead of telling the new girls "your too young to do a gangbang" or "wait to do anal" we should be telling about who they should be idolizing!
i used to be really really big on anal myself, but over the years, i just kind of lost interest. if the scene has it, the girl does it, awesome. but if not, its no big deal for me, not anymore anyway. dont get me wrong, its great to see a girl getting plowed in her ass every now and again. but i wouldnt refuse to watch the film if she doesnt
So your saying if I held back and just did b/g scenes for a while that my career would have went different. I don't believe that at all. I didn't come into the industry doing anal.I know that I didn't wait that long either.Don't think that had anything to do with me not getting contracted. Most contract girls are just eye candy and don't really give off the vibe that they luv what they do. Wouldn't take a contract now because they would probably want to tone me down. I'm a freak and luv the shit that I do.
well, I came to the US and my agent Mark Spiegler told me that if I was willing to do it all I will make more money and get more work and he was right and I am glad about the way things went for me. What you say about only US girls being smart about picking a good agent is total BS. Please, why should European girls not be smart? Maybe they have a different view on things. Maybe they prefer to make a shit load of money as fast as they can and as long as they can and then they think about everything else. It's not a bad situation to do it this way and after 3 or 4 years with a big chunk of money in the bank rethink your options. What you say is not necessarily true because for me it was always better from an economic standpoint to have more money now than to hope for something that might or might not happen in the future. Especially in the porn industry. It really depends on what you want out of your career. In my opinion a contract is not the best for everybody, for me personally it would have never been worth it financially because I was always working and even now I make more shooting for everybody than what a contract would paid me. Plus Spiegler always said "rich and famous are two different things" and it's true. If your priority is to have that kind of exposure where your face is on every phone sex add or on every sex toy sold in the country, then go for it. But that doesn't necessarily pay your bills plus the feature dancing market is not what it used to be either. Big exposure is not always desirable. I'm doing porn for almost 6 years now and every college kid in the country knows my face and sometimes I don't feel like it was worth it. I always thought fame is great and I never knew what Spiegler meant but now I know that you can be "famous" and it doesn't really translate into $$$. Just the pure fact that people know who you are doesn't make you a single penny. It's about how hard you work on top of that or how smart you are using that "fame" that gets you ahead. maybe some new 18 year old girl prefers not to be on cable and doesn't want big promotion and exposure. Maybe she just wants to make a few bucks to pay for college or pay off her debt or buy a Corvette or a designer purse and take the money and get out without leaving a big mark or creating too much attention. The ones that stay in it for the long term never have to worry about getting "famous" because the longer you do this the more recognizable your face gets. You don't need to be a contract girl to get recognized on the streets or have 16 year olds scream profanities after you. I would say everybody has different goals and different agendas and please don't believe that having a contract is somehow the better deal. Not at all and not for everybody. People get into porn for various reasons and manage their careers in various ways. Maybe some performers don't really like the idea having a contract where they have a boss. I pretty much love the fact that I don't have anybody telling me what to do.
Some good comments here, and quite a good bit of talk has been about how long term careers can be managed, although at the same time, it should be consider that for some (if not many) Porn can be intended as a transitional-1 yr-or-less source of money (maybe to get money for higher education) so in that case, if a girl wants to "do it all" and make as much money as possible but while not planning on spending a lot of time in the industry to begin with , that may be the the right strategy for her plans. Just one among many possible scenarios and considerations I think
Exactly my thoughts. Eyecandy is nice and relaxing... but shallow and soulless. And I believe there are certain girls wanting contracts so they don't have to do the stuff non-contracts girls do... I mean, they enter porn, but don't want the kind of sex found in porn?
