Just a thought....

Author	Post
scenic Member 46 Posts 12/12	Posted - Dec 15 2012 : 11:38PM So I'm a girl that watches porn, and have been a long-time lurker. I understand porn is there to get us all off. Great. But what has dismayed me somewhat is the general callousness about the way people here talk about the porn stars they purport to like. There are a great many people who urge porn stars to do stuff they don't want to do, who enjoy seeing them doing things that cause them pain, who deride them for their looks, their weight, their tattoos, the surgery they feel they need to get to keep working. If your favorite girl doesn't want to do a DP, why would you push her to do it? If someone doesn't do interracial (I don't get that, but it's her choice), why would you be shitty about her until she does? Etc etc. This will no doubt be terribly unpopular, but if you as a bloke had to take a huge cock up your ass (and be paid $1,000 for it, so lets not debate about the cash they're paid) would you do it? I doubt it. Would you want to be face-fucked until you vomited for $500? Probably not. It's very nice to be a step away and deride the people that provide you with wank fodder, but it's a woman at the end of it, and however she arrived in porn she's worth a bit more thought than just an asshole that hurts when it's fucked. [Link]
Hardware All-Star Member Your other left 14594 Posts 3/02	Posted - Dec 16 2012 : 12:07AM Consider the old traveling carnival shows that attracted crowds by featuring all manner of odd and bizarre acts - geeks, freaks and sword-swallowers, to name a few. I don't see the point of it, myself, but I do recognize that it isn't porn that brings the gawkers out, they've been around all the time. [Link]
scenic Member 46 Posts 12/12	Posted - Dec 16 2012 : 12:47AM I'm not sure I get your point. Mine was that the people who purport to like/love the women who work in porn are the ones who push them to do things they may not be comfortable with. We've had freak shows since victorian times of course, but they were passive people to be stared at, not people to be hounded into doing things for the sexual enjoyment of strangers. [Link]
Hardware All-Star Member Your other left 14594 Posts 3/02	Posted - Dec 16 2012 : 2:23AM There's nothing passive about biting the heads off of chickens or swallowing swords. I'm not trying to discount your concern, I'm just pointing out that there have always been people who treat everybody else as objects for their amusement, and who don't care about the risks they ask others to take. [Link]
scenic Member 46 Posts 12/12	Posted - Dec 16 2012 : 2:50AM I agree, but all I'm saying is that the people on here who purport to love and 'respect' the porn stars they like are the ones who pressure those women to do stuff that they're not comfortable doing. Look at the threads about 'x should do anal' 'x should do dp' 'x should do IR'. Do any of those guys consider why x doesn't want to do it? I would bet not. Do they care about why she doesn't want to do it? Not a jot. They care about how it'll get them off when she eventually does it. I understand that's the point of porn, but it's an absolute hypocrisy and that's what pisses me off. [Link]

aclayfan All-Star Member 5059 Posts 8/11	Posted - Dec 16 2012 : 3:14AM ^ Well, you're on target with your comments. However, with that kind of insight you may not be happy here. [Link]
RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Dec 16 2012 : 4:23AM scenic wrote: So I'm a girl that watches porn, and have been a long-time lurker. Click to expand Welcome to ADT. I understand porn is there to get us all off. Great. But what has dismayed me somewhat is the general callousness about the way people here talk about the porn stars they purport to like. There are a great many people who urge porn stars to do stuff they don't want to do, who enjoy seeing them doing things that cause them pain, who deride them for their looks, their weight, their tattoos, the surgery they feel they need to get to keep working. If your favorite girl doesn't want to do a DP, why would you push her to do it? If someone doesn't do interracial (I don't get that, but it's her choice), why would you be shitty about her until she does? Etc etc. Click to expand Well, there are all types of different people here. Porn fans come in all flavors. Some are just very honest about what they think. Of course there's no need for anyone to be intentionally mean when talking about their favorites or others in the porn business. Sometimes there's just no delicate way to say what you need to say. Porn is the kind of business where you (as a consumer) will end up saying things that are kind of rude if you want to get your point across. Also, there are people who do try to publicly bully their favorites into doing things like DP. I do find that a bit mean. On the other hand, it's not outside the realm of possibility that a girl would not really have a problem with something like DP but she knows that when her work starts to dwindle, this is how she can take it to the next level. I have noticed there aren't too many girls who don't end up doing things they appeared to resist doing at first. Now it's complete guesswork as to whether they really didn't want to do it or whether they were just holding back so they'd have some things in reserve. Who knows? If it's the latter, they aren't exactly going to announce it because that kind of ruins the excitement when they announce they're finally going to do it. As far as tattoos and surgery, I must confess to being one of those who complains about them but I try not to mention names. If I do mention someone by name, I try to simply state my opinion that it isn't my thing and leave it at that. I try not to deride any specific girls for their decisions. As far as weight, I'm one who likes the more curvy girls or girls with bigger butts and so forth. I will occasionally mention that I'm not crazy about skinny girls. I don't mean there's anything wrong with them. It's just not my cup of tea. The same as saying I prefer redheads over blondes. There's nothing wrong with blondes. It's just a preference. As a customer, I have to express myself. Believe me, I am very mindful of the fact that it might hurt their feelings if I don't express it the right way. And that it might bother them no matter how I say it. Sometimes you just can't avoid being a little impolite. This will no doubt be terribly unpopular, but if you as a bloke had to take a huge cock up your ass (and be paid $1,000 for it, so lets not debate about the cash they're paid) would you do it? Click to expand Yes. But I'm a bi bloke. I'd probably do it for free if I was in the mood for a huge cock up my ass. Would you want to be face-fucked until you vomited for $500? Click to expand I'd probably do it for $500. Yeah. I'd prefer to be warned ahead of time so I didn't eat anything right before. But if I was selling my sex for the camera, I'd do pretty much whatever they wanted for the right price. That's basically the deal. I mean, it's nice if the girls can say what they will and won't do. I wouldn't expect them to do anything that they really hated. But me personally? It wouldn't bother me much to do basically anything I could survive. I'd be more bothered about doing porn in the first place because I'm shy and I wouldn't want to be recognized all the time. Anyway, porn is about what you'll do for what price. It's business. I do sympathize with the girls who don't like the rough stuff or the ones who don't want 3 cocks in their ass at the same time. But you have to know going in that.... 1. A new porn star typically has an expiration date. If she's new and she's hot and popular, she's going to get a lot of work. But that typically doesn't last forever for most stars. Only the lucky few will maintain that level of popularity for more than maybe a couple of years. If that. 2. People are going to want to see their favorite girls doing the things they like seeing. 3. The people who make porn are going to try and satisfy their audience. They have to. It's their business. It's what they do. People who are going into porn need to watch the most popular porn of the day and ask themselves if they're going to be comfortable with doing that. Or if not, are they going to have an alternative source of income. Because it's this simple. If they're not doing what's popular, they're not going to get much work. It's nothing personal. No one wants to starve them. Most of us don't want to punish them for not doing the right things. We simply don't have unlimited amounts of money to spend on porn that we don't even want to see. If a guy likes anal and a hot new girl isn't doing anal, he's probably going to ask. Some of these guys get a bit out of line though. I do agree. They get too aggressive. I think maybe some of them are trolling, really. Probably not. It's very nice to be a step away and deride the people that provide you with wank fodder, but it's a woman at the end of it, and however she arrived in porn she's worth a bit more thought than just an asshole that hurts when it's fucked. Click to expand Unfortunately, it's not the audience's job to worry about any of this. We're simply buying a product. If these people have any problems with what they're doing, they need to look out for themselves because nobody else will. At the end of the day, they'll go home sore, angry, maybe a little hurt. They have their money. This is what they agreed to do for the price. Everyone who works makes the same decision. What are you willing to do for your money? Porn is not an easy way to make money when you add everything that's involved together. It can destroy people who don't manage their porn careers wisely and people who don't take care of themselves and look out for their own interests. They have to be willing to say no sometimes. They have to be able to say no. They need financial backup so they don't have to shoot a scene every day in order to keep eating. Anyone who depends on porn to stay alive and spends the money as fast as they make it is going to end up doing things she doesn't want to do. I DO respect them. If I didn't I would have never spent the amount of time I've spent writing about them on this forum. Edited by - randomprecision on 12/16/2012 4:25:42 AM [Link]
Dan Senior Member 2056 Posts 6/07	Posted - Dec 16 2012 : 5:42AM scenic wrote: So I'm a girl that watches porn, and have been a long-time lurker. I understand porn is there to get us all off. Great. But what has dismayed me somewhat is the general callousness about the way people here talk about the porn stars they purport to like.... Click to expand I think this forum already has rules about being polite towards porn stars, because some porn stars also read this forum and sometimes post their comments. The moderators here remind people to be polite, and they delete impolite comments that violate the rules. And I'd say that vast majority of people here are polite. Perhaps if you give some quotes of what people have said in this forum in the past, or links to such posts, then it would be easier to judge how fair or unfair your complaint is. I think porn stars should be allowed to speak for themselves and voice their complaints if they have any. They are adults too, and they don't need someone else to represent their views in a general forum like this. The problem with speaking on behalf of others without their authorization, is that quite often such speaking doesn't represent what they want. [Link]
Draxxx Senior Member 3831 Posts 2/07	Posted - Dec 16 2012 : 8:01AM scenic wrote: So I'm a girl that watches porn, and have been a long-time lurker. I understand porn is there to get us all off. Great. But what has dismayed me somewhat is the general callousness about the way people here talk about the porn stars they purport to like. There are a great many people who urge porn stars to do stuff they don't want to do, who enjoy seeing them doing things that cause them pain, who deride them for their looks, their weight, their tattoos, the surgery they feel they need to get to keep working. If your favorite girl doesn't want to do a DP, why would you push her to do it? If someone doesn't do interracial (I don't get that, but it's her choice), why would you be shitty about her until she does? Etc etc. Click to expand The quick simple answer is that many fans don't really think of pornstars as actual people but sexbots that are supposed to do what "fans" want. They're only a "fan" as long as that pornstar as long as they behave in the way they want. That's why so many supposed "fans" are quick to "drop" a pornstar the moment they say something they don't like, gain weight, get tattoos, get a boobjob, not do certain acts, etc...Those type of fans somehow feel justifed by making such demands because they feel that the girl owes them because they are a "fan" and they spent money on their movies. The "fans" who don't actually pay for porn just feel the sexbot should be willing to do anything some fans want because after all she's a pornstar. I don't think it's unreasonable to request or want to see your fav porngirl do whatever you're into but it gets ugly/creepy when a fan "demands" she does something and won't let it go or berates the girl for not wanting to do it or is more than willing to stop being a "fan" because the girl doesn't want to do what that "fan" wants. Unfortunately, as you can see from the people here some porn fans here thee are who get off on women being "abused" to a certain extent. They don't care if the girl doesn't appears to be enjoying enjoying the act and some actually enjoy seeing the girl in pain. They view the girls as objects that things are done to. Then you have the aspect of porn that performers, directors, and studios constantly have to deal with to keep fans interested..."Okay, what's next?" aspect. Pretty much every girl has to deal with this. At first the fans are just happy to see her having sex. Then after a few scenes the fans want to see something "new" (different) so they start in with request/demands. They want IR, then IR with the biggest guys, then two guys, etc...They want anal sex, then anal with the biggest guys, then DPs, then gangbangs. Basically it's never enough and the girl needs to constantly up the stakes to keep them interested. But in the end many fans will eventually get bored with that girl no matter what they do and move on to the next girl. This all can be all unsettling to watch but unfortunately it's the nature of the business and isn't going to change. You would always hope some fans would at least be more aware that pornstars aren't unfeeling sexbots that you can bark orders at but that's not going to change either. [Link]
Dan Senior Member 2056 Posts 6/07	Posted - Dec 16 2012 : 8:09AM ^ When a porn lady bares her nice ass for male porn fans to see, then it's only inevitable that these porn fans will start having all kinds of sex fantasies about her. Because this is normal human nature. The only question is, how openly and how honestly should porn fans be allowed to express their fantasies and feelings about the porn stars they like? To me, it makes no sense that a lady would make guys fantasize about her and then complain that she doesn't like some of their fantasies. Because people are naturally diverse in their thinking and feeling. They are bound to have a wide variety of fantasies, whenever the sexy lady shows them her body to fantasize about. This kind of thing is inevitable, and it's natural too. Edited by - Dan on 12/16/2012 8:10:59 AM [Link]
BumBum Member 395 Posts 1/07	Posted - Dec 16 2012 : 9:27AM I agree with scenic. On my fantasy life, the gals all love what they are doing sexually. Nobody is is mean to anyone else, because that's no fun. Just great, ecstatic, orgasmic fun. I don't want to see things I would not want to do, like DPs, choking, slapping (except butts), gagging, ATM, gang bangs. I want to see good looking gals having enjoyable anal sex. But I understand that other people have different proclivities, so I just watch what I like and assume other people watch what they like. [Link]
CummingLinguist All-Star Member 5908 Posts 11/11	Posted - Dec 16 2012 : 9:58AM scenic wrote: So I'm a girl that watches porn, and have been a long-time lurker. ... If your favorite girl doesn't want to do a DP, why would you push her to do it? If someone doesn't do interracial (I don't get that, but it's her choice), why would you be shitty about her until she does? Etc etc. Click to expand Welcome. I was originally going to claim that I don't succumb to this particular sin, but then I remembered that I once wrote this. I was being a little shitty in the earlier post, so let me say right now, that Taylor Vixen is not only gorgeous, but in my mind, she is 100% PORN STAR. (That said, I have never jerked off to her, and if she ever decides to take cock on camera, I promise to give her a standing salute.) [Link]
SUCKER4NICETITS Member MY FUTURE WIFE MADISON IVY 810 Posts 5/07	Posted - Dec 16 2012 : 10:34AM Scenic, I agree with you 1000%! Why make the performers do things they don't want to do? It is so much hotter to see people enjoying the sex, then trying to endure the scene for a paycheck. [Link]
Draxxx Senior Member 3831 Posts 2/07	Posted - Dec 16 2012 : 4:20PM Dan wrote: ^ When a porn lady bares her nice ass for male porn fans to see, then it's only inevitable that these porn fans will start having all kinds of sex fantasies about her. Because this is normal human nature. The only question is, how openly and how honestly should porn fans be allowed to express their fantasies and feelings about the porn stars they like? Click to expand The problem is that some fans have no tact and make demands of a pornstar or just keep pestering her with the same requests or talks badly about her if she doesn't do what they want. Like I said there's nothing wrong with wanting to see a pornstar do something and requesting it but some fans need to remember that pornstars ar actual human beings with feelings. To me, it makes no sense that a lady would make guys fantasize about her and then complain that she doesn't like some of their fantasies. Because people are naturally diverse in their thinking and feeling. They are bound to have a wide variety of fantasies, whenever the sexy lady shows them her body to fantasize about. This kind of thing is inevitable, and it's natural too. Click to expand Why doesn't it make sense? Everyone's free to have their fantasies but that doesn't mean a pornstar is obligated to perform them. I don't think pornstars say or think most fantasies are wrong/bad but they choose not to want to perform them. There aren't any rules/laws saying that they must cater to every fantasy/fetish fans request of them. [Link]
LCF All-Star Member Non Prevalebunt! 10364 Posts 1/05	Posted - Dec 16 2012 : 4:32PM Well I completely concur with scenic here. I'm one of those are keep saying the same every now and then and no I'm not a woman welcome to ADT scenic [Link]

ninja1 Senior Member 2939 Posts 1/08	Posted - Dec 16 2012 : 5:01PM Yeah, it's not cool to make unreasonable demands of a pornstar. If a porn performer doesn't do what you want, fuck her (figuratively) and find a different performer to follow. Likewise, if a porn producer doesn't do what you want, fuck 'em and buy your porn from a different producer. No need to get personal or abusive or demanding about it. IMO if a producer or director or performer is pressured to go beyond their comfort/skill/ability/interest level, the result will probably be lousy anyway. Edited by - ninja1 on 12/16/2012 5:10:10 PM [Link]
a9nostic Senior Member 1056 Posts 8/08	Posted - Dec 16 2012 : 8:14PM I can see your point, scenic, but I can't agree with you. If porn-stars are not paid a lot of money to fulfill people's fantasies, whether they like them or not, why are they paid so much money? Why should a porn-star be privileged in that they get to like everything about their job, while virtually no one else does? Should a person with no other real skills but can still make $1000 per day, really complain that she may be asked to do anal? You know, they all could flip burgers with no big cocks in their asses for around $64 per day, before taxes. This question seems unreal. What are porn-stars for, then? [Link]
Hardware All-Star Member Your other left 14594 Posts 3/02	Posted - Dec 16 2012 : 9:13PM a9nostic wrote: I can see your point, scenic, but I can't agree with you. If porn-stars are not paid a lot of money to fulfill people's fantasies, whether they like them or not, why are they paid so much money? Click to expand Porn stars are paid so much money because producers expect to make even more money from their performances, which is exactly the same reason performers in every other field get paid. There is no inherent requirement that every performer fulfill every fantasy out there, any more than there is an inherent requirement that every band perform every song out there. Why don't you demand that the Rolling Stones do Whole Lotta Love - see how far that gets you. [Link]
Dan Senior Member 2056 Posts 6/07	Posted - Dec 17 2012 : 6:20AM Draxxx wrote: The problem is that some fans have no tact and make demands of a pornstar or just keep pestering her with the same requests or talks badly about her if she doesn't do what they want. Like I said there's nothing wrong with wanting to see a pornstar do something and requesting it but some fans need to remember that pornstars ar actual human beings with feelings. Click to expand I think the rules and the moderation in this forum is adequate enough for everyone to talk freely about porn. I don't see any need for change here. People who are disrespectful get banned from this forum. There is nothing wrong with porn fans asking for something they want to see. That's what being a porn fan is all about. You don't just watch porn passively and accept whatever is available. You become so interested and that you want to participate in some small way. And this is where porn fans get to say their fantasies and wishes. [Link]
RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Dec 17 2012 : 7:26AM Draxxx wrote: Why doesn't it make sense? Everyone's free to have their fantasies but that doesn't mean a pornstar is obligated to perform them. Click to expand No, but they should expect that it's going to happen. Imagine for a moment that you're a hot 19 year old right now and you're thinking about going into porn. Now let's assume you don't like throat fucking, IR or anal. Period. Not only does it do nothing for you but you absolutely hate it. It's torture to you. Wouldn't you expect someone to ask you to do these things in the porn business? If not, why not? Don't you think these girls should watch the most popular porn movies to see what's popular before they sign any papers? I don't want to sound rude but I'm getting tired of my tastes in porn being blamed because people I never met made bad decisions and didn't look before they leaped. Or worse. Some of them did, never complained a bit and their volunteer army of saviors are interpreting every sour expression or painful grimace as evidence that they want and need representation out here. If they have a problem with it, I'd rather hear it from them than you. Who are you? Did you ever do porn? Are you even female? I don't know. If any of them have regrets, they should publish them under the porn name they're known for. What is the point of some random person out here speaking for them when they don't even know if they want to be spoken for? [Link]
Draxxx Senior Member 3831 Posts 2/07	Posted - Dec 17 2012 : 9:36AM RandomPrecision wrote: Draxxx wrote: Why doesn't it make sense? Everyone's free to have their fantasies but that doesn't mean a pornstar is obligated to perform them. Click to expand No, but they should expect that it's going to happen. Imagine for a moment that you're a hot 19 year old right now and you're thinking about going into porn. Now let's assume you don't like throat fucking, IR or anal. Period. Not only does it do nothing for you but you absolutely hate it. It's torture to you. Click to expand Again, for the 3rd time...There's nothing wrong with requests but some people have no tact when they make those requests and forget that pornstar is a person with feelings. Some people pester porngirls to do things in an annoying way. Some fans get nasty and say nasty things when they don't get what they want. It's those fans that are annoying. Wouldn't you expect someone to ask you to do these things in the porn business? If not, why not? Don't you think these girls should watch the most popular porn movies to see what's popular before they sign any papers? Click to expand There are plenty of girls who make a nice living from porn and have sizable fanbases without doing some of the stuff mentioned. A girl enters the biz with an idea of what she willing or able to do. There's no set of rules that dictate she has to do every porn act someone wants her to do. Yes, she probably will miss out on work because of her choices but she knows that better than anyone because she's the one turning it down. If she's okay with that that's all that maters. If her choices cause her to miss out on work and chooses not to do it that's completely and totally up to her. I don't want to sound rude but I'm getting tired of my tastes in porn being blamed because people I never met made bad decisions and didn't look before they leaped. Or worse. Some of them did, never complained a bit and their volunteer army of saviors are interpreting every sour expression or painful grimace as evidence that they want and need representation out here. If they have a problem with it, I'd rather hear it from them than you. Who are you? Did you ever do porn? Are you even female? I don't know. If any of them have regrets, they should publish them under the porn name they're known for. What is the point of some random person out here speaking for them when they don't even know if they want to be spoken for? Click to expand Too bad for you but it doesn't change anything. Porngirls will do what they want or don't want to do regardless of what their fans or random porn fans want from them. Regardless of people reminding others that pornstars don't need to or have to oblige every request/demand. In the end if that girl tells a fan directly they have no interest in doing something or if that fan hears it from their "army of saviors" the end result is not everyone gets what they want. I'm sure every pornstar out there is more than aware what's popular in porn and what fans generally want to see. If they choose to do whatever, whenever they would without getting that direct request demand from each fan. [Link]
MrPurple Member 381 Posts 5/09	Posted - Dec 17 2012 : 10:05PM scenic wrote: So I'm a girl that watches porn, and have been a long-time lurker. I understand porn is there to get us all off. Great. But what has dismayed me somewhat is the general callousness about the way people here talk about the porn stars they purport to like. There are a great many people who urge porn stars to do stuff they don't want to do, who enjoy seeing them doing things that cause them pain, who deride them for their looks, their weight, their tattoos, the surgery they feel they need to get to keep working. If your favorite girl doesn't want to do a DP, why would you push her to do it? If someone doesn't do interracial (I don't get that, but it's her choice), why would you be shitty about her until she does? Etc etc. This will no doubt be terribly unpopular, but if you as a bloke had to take a huge cock up your ass (and be paid $1,000 for it, so lets not debate about the cash they're paid) would you do it? I doubt it. Would you want to be face-fucked until you vomited for $500? Probably not. It's very nice to be a step away and deride the people that provide you with wank fodder, but it's a woman at the end of it, and however she arrived in porn she's worth a bit more thought than just an asshole that hurts when it's fucked. Click to expand I agree with you completely. But... Speaking generally, for men it's all about domination (light/hard/medium, don't matter). I believe that applies to even those that are not aware of it. Phoenix Marie is a perfect example of a TRUE pornstar that wrote on here just a while back that she would never do a gangbang because the idea didn't turn her on (this was a girl who really knew the ropes and did nasty things, but still said no to blowbangs/gangbangs), and this year she did two "mini-gangbangs" (?). She didn't seem to enjoy it as far as I could interpret it (as she did explain in the beginning to why she wouldn't) but she did the deed anyway. Why? Pressure from fans, from herself and from the industry. Here is this strong, smart and popular woman that have been in the business for many years, is vocal about never doing such a thing to a year later getting fucked in every possible way, becoming airtight and tossed around like a ragdoll. Everything she said she didn't want to do and be subjected to. It has a bit of conquer element to it. And that is satisfactory in a dominating/submissive way. Someone once said that porn is an intimate thing cause you are watching these beautiful women and they are allowing you to watch them. It becomes something of an acceptance thing. How far can you go/demand they go and they still please you because they want to please you? I don't find it strange or wrong one bit. Sure, they are human too, but they are fantasies first and foremost from where we sit. Like I said, I agree with you about tact etc but motivations for some things can easily be found in the mind of the depraved. [Link]
scenic Member 46 Posts 12/12	Posted - Dec 17 2012 : 10:14PM Thanks all for your considered replies. I should say that I don't see myself as someone who is on any kind of crusade to represent porn women - and that's not what I intended by my original post - I'm a porn consumer as much as you guys. Not only that, but I'm not a woman who thinks porn should be all rose petals and soft filters - egads that shit is generally grim! I was just interested in the almost casual misogyny that often appears here. I understand that women (and men for that matter) could flip burgers rather than appear in porn, it's obviously a choice, but there are only a few jobs that a) entail pressure to endure physical pain to earn money - would people on here wish those working in McDonalds to plunge their hands into a deep fat fryer (if they were paid enough) for their enjoyment? And b) it's an industry that draws a lot of people who have been abused in some way and have really skewed ideas about their desirability etc - however much they think it doesn't. And even fewer jobs where someone is enduring physical pain is positively encouraged and reveled in. Also, how you feel about knowing that they're only doing it because they're paid - not because they genuinely enjoy it. Is that something you prefer not to think about? I'm absolutely not trying to wind people up, I'm genuinely interested. As a woman I find threads about people asking for recommendations of scenes where performers cry during anal, or where the cock is too big and they're clearly in pain a bit off. Hence my question about how many guys would like to take a giant cock up their arse. Again, thank you for your intelligent and thought out responses. I am certainly not judging in any way, and like I said, I'm interested in how we all consume the product. I have my own reservations and dilemmas about the stuff I view (and get off on!), so I'm pleased to hear your opinions! [Link]
Gore Gore Girl Doctor of the Erotic Arts 7238 Posts 1/09	Posted - Dec 18 2012 : 12:40PM scenic wrote: As a woman I find threads about people asking for recommendations of scenes where performers cry during anal, or where the cock is too big and they're clearly in pain a bit off. Click to expand I think it's more than a bit "off," and there are plenty of men who feel the same way you do - you don't have to be a woman to be disgusted by overt misogyny. If you were to post similar desires for real violence and misery inflicted on a specific type of person/persons other than women (or maybe women in sex work), I suspect you would meet with a very different response. [Link]
Gore Gore Girl Doctor of the Erotic Arts 7238 Posts 1/09	Posted - Dec 18 2012 : 12:41PM And also, welcome to ADT! :) [Link]

RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Dec 18 2012 : 3:08PM Preface. I'm responding to these posts a bit backwards because of the way I skip around when I'm reading threads. Hope it isn't too confusing. Gore Gore Girl wrote: scenic wrote: As a woman I find threads about people asking for recommendations of scenes where performers cry during anal, or where the cock is too big and they're clearly in pain a bit off. Click to expand I think it's more than a bit "off," and there are plenty of men who feel the same way you do - you don't have to be a woman to be disgusted by overt misogyny. If you were to post similar desires for real violence and misery inflicted on a specific type of person/persons other than women (or maybe women in sex work), I suspect you would meet with a very different response. Click to expand Millions of people have loved the "sport" of boxing where the object is to knock someone the fuck out. Are all of those people sick? How do you knock someone out without hurting them? Punching someone in the face isn't violent? That's actually a rhetorical question. In this day and age, so many people are so afraid to admit they got a primal thrill from something that's a bit edgy and dark. I would not attack you if you expressed a sexual appetite for men in pain. Many women do, in fact, have this "fetish". And they are almost never attacked for their sexual fantasies. I have seen porn that features women repeatedly kicking men in the nuts. Hard. I admit it's a tiny niche but it is there. I admit some people go too far and it should never be done without the consent of the women in the scenes. Most of the time what I see is a woman who obviously consented. She may get a little upset. She might cry. She might break down a bit but you can usually tell they have consented. Though it could be hard to tell the difference. Edited by - randomprecision on 12/18/2012 3:11:14 PM [Link]
Gore Gore Girl Doctor of the Erotic Arts 7238 Posts 1/09	Posted - Dec 18 2012 : 5:16PM ^ I'm not sure which parts are directed at me/who the "you" is. A generic "you"? Perhaps, but you quoted me so... I never said anyone was "sick" nor do I think I "attacked" anyone, unless you consider my being disturbed to be an attack. I also do not find the verbal/written expression of feelings to be problematic in itself and would never attack someone (again, I guess that depends on what you mean by attack) for articulating their thoughts and feelings. As you note, many people feel and think things like this but do not articulate them. On the other hand, I think it's critical to interrogate cultural attitudes, though I know you do not. Anyway, I think the questions you raise (either explicitly or implicitly) are important. I have used the boxing analogy in the past, though in a slightly different context that highlights the differences: boxing is lauded, porn is not. Boxers are held up as icons, and often go on to generic celebrity status (often family friendly) while porn performers generally are not/do not. I think it's interesting to ponder why, when as you point out there are so many similarities. I have my own theories I won't bore you with. [Link]
RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Dec 18 2012 : 7:18PM Gore Gore Girl wrote: ^ I'm not sure which parts are directed at me/who the "you" is. A generic "you"? Perhaps, but you quoted me so... I never said anyone was "sick" nor do I think I "attacked" anyone, unless you consider my being disturbed to be an attack. I also do not find the verbal/written expression of feelings to be problematic in itself and would never attack someone (again, I guess that depends on what you mean by attack) for articulating their thoughts and feelings. As you note, many people feel and think things like this but do not articulate them. On the other hand, I think it's critical to interrogate cultural attitudes, though I know you do not. Click to expand Well, I was commenting on the part where you said - If you were to post similar desires for real violence and misery inflicted on a specific type of person/persons other than women (or maybe women in sex work), I suspect you would meet with a very different response. Click to expand It's possible that I misinterpreted it. Maybe "attack" isn't necessarily the right word but frankly, this subject seems to come up on ADT at least once every couple of weeks and has ever since I've been here (minus maybe a few slow spots here and there). I'm just tired of it and am usually not in a mood to mince words too much when this week's episode comes along. It was really nothing personal. I just find it sad that porn performers are not trusted to make their own choices. Even bad ones. I have never blamed anyone else for my bad choices. And I've made a lot of them. [Link]
JohnW Senior Member 1351 Posts 6/08	Posted - Dec 20 2012 : 12:38PM I've commented on this subject in the past too, but I'll just make a few points re misogyny. There are some significant factors here that are interconnected but needs to be mentioned separately. 1) Consumerism. People do give direct and honest feedback about the product they consume. A lot of this feedback can seem harsher than for other products because the stars and their bodies and their behavior is such a central part of the product as opposed other kinds of popular culture. Yes, popular culture in general is very sexually charged and we even obsess with actors/singers' bodies but porn by its nature will always be even more focused on it. 2) Cultural/religious stigma. For all the popularity of porn, there's no use in pretending that we are rid of centuries old stigma with regards to sexuality. Girls outside of porn (and in porn) still have to think of their reputation. Expectations and taboos are still so ingrained in our culture that they still influence everyone's behavior and of course this puts extra pressure on the people in the business. 3) Misogyny. Exactly where stating personal preferences end and misogyny begins is not something I'm going to try to have an opinion about, but when you've spent some time on various forums reading about sex you do recognize certain patterns/arguments/opinions after a while. ADT is so much better than most other places but I still get that bad vibe from some posts here. Some people say cruel things about women with such an ease that its hard to explain it away by the fact that they're just stating their preferences or "having fun" or some political bullshit about a "war on men" or similar. You can hardly fix the first two, so this will remain a problem particularly with porn. As for the latter... I suppose misogynists have a harder time now compared to decades ago, but considering how much better ADT is compared to other places... Its just something that is there. If you haven't read worse than you've found on ADT, I would suggest you be careful about browsing forums elsewhere. Edited by - JohnW on 12/20/2012 12:40:38 PM [Link]
CummingLinguist All-Star Member 5908 Posts 11/11	Posted - Dec 20 2012 : 1:39PM ^ I agree with you on all three points, and I would add that each of them interacts with the others in complex ways. For instance, the commodification of sex necessitates turning people into sex objects. In the case of hetero porn marketed to men, this involves turning women into sex objects, which is itself a form of misogyny. [Link]
Hardware All-Star Member Your other left 14594 Posts 3/02	Posted - Dec 20 2012 : 2:09PM CummingLinguist wrote: For instance, the commodification of sex necessitates turning people into sex objects. Click to expand It is interesting that this is such a common notion, because what makes one 'sex object' interesting to me while another 'sex object' is not isn't just looks, but personality. Granted, it may be a persona adopted for the role of 'porn star', but I don't think that alters the fact that I'm not content with just a physical 'sex object'. [Link]
jakejd4949 Senior Member 2938 Posts 8/06	Posted - Dec 20 2012 : 2:44PM You have posed some very interesting and thoughtfull questions . Good to see a womans point of view here . I don't believe that any performer should work with another they don't like , or be pushed into doing something they are not comfortable with . I is a bit different if they are willing to try and push themselves , say some of the scenes at kink or a good example Katie St Ives try at DP , in Dark Meat 4 . Belladonna showed all of the fotage , with Katie struggling to pull the scene off . Pushing performers to their limits with there permission is quite accetable , as long as you stop if they reach what they are ok with . Roxy Jezel was nearly brutalized by Rocco in Rocco in Rocco Ravishes Ibiza 2 , the bts shows Roxy and Rocco watching the fotage afterwards , she is quite ok with what went on . There are a number of very smart women in porn , who know what thier limits are and don't mind going there - the scenes they shoot are much more real and genuine , stars such as Roxy , Katie , Belladonna , Jenna Haze and others . I have recently watches a few scenes with Jesse Andrews and Lizzy London , both newcomers who have been willing to try dominant "forced" sex . That is actually the crux of the situation , I would never want to see a woman really harmed in any way , I personally believe the rape laws are far too lenient . i have been married more than a decade , and would never want my wife to be anything other than happy . Sexually , i do like to be dominant , my wife enjoys some very hard and a bit rough sex at times . It does give me a bit of caveman thrill when I fill her completely , and have every inch of her . We had sex the other night , and she was a bit sore the next day-joking about having a tough time sitting down , which gave the cro-magnon aspect of my brain satisfaction . The desire to dominate and subjugate a woman is so hard wired into our primitive brain , but it can be controlled - many woman sek to be subtly dominated , watching Charlotte Vale , who is in a sub relationship and clearly enjoys the role is quite a turn on . You mention the painfull ass fucking thread , yes , we like to see a "suffer" and and be subdued by a mans cock , just like all the threads on gagging ect . As a previous poster mentioned , it's similar to boxing or football , hell , does any one watch nascar just to see the crashes ? Yup. I and others also enjoy watching women dom other women , ala Ultimate Surrender or No Warning . Watching Sinn Sage give Cassandra Nix and Kara Price thier first on screen anal in No warning 6 was super intense . As to looks , I think most of the comments are on what we finf atractive , most of us do not like bad boob jobs(or boob jobs at all) , like many here I like curvy , natural looking women over the Jenna Jameson types. To close this long post , I will say that i think most of us here find Max Hardcore and the Facial Abuse guy reprehensible (even if we watch it sometimes , oh hell , we are sometimes just animals). I would like to hear more on what you and the other ladies her think , what are your thoughts on Sweet Sinner by Nica Noelle and the New Sensations Romance line ? i know you like real creampie type ending , i think many of us here find facials just stupid and bad endings to good scenes . What do you find to be your favorites types of scenes? [Link]
CummingLinguist All-Star Member 5908 Posts 11/11	Posted - Dec 20 2012 : 2:49PM ^^ You're right. Sexual desire is complicated. People are attracted to people. Porn stars cannot be completely depersonalized, or they cease to function as sexual commodities. But that doesn't mean they're no longer being objectified, it means that fans are lusting after a body and a person. Going back to the original post: Isn't it possible that some fans get off on seeing a woman pushed to her limits sexually? If so, might not some fans actually WANT to see women do things that they aren't (at least initially) comfortable with? Some women enjoy exploring their limits, and porn provides an opportunity to do so in a safe environment. But others are in it mainly for the money, the attention, or because they can't stand working 9 to 5. Nobody ever hassled Sasha Grey, Annette Schwarz, or Bobbi Starr about when they were going to do something freaky on camera. There are a lot more women in porn who want to have their limits respected than who want to use porn to explore their limits. This creates a real conflict with those fans who want to see women push their limits. ^ It's interesting to see how similar our thoughts were, as we were writing at the same time. I also hate facials, but I fear that the reason they are so common has less to do with anybody's beliefs about what fans want as the fact that these guys are working a lot, and they simply need to jerk off for a long time before they can come. What's a woman to do during while the stud's jerk off if not sit on their knees waiting for the money shot? Edited to add"^. I guess I took too long to compose my thoughts. Edited by - cumminglinguist on 12/20/2012 2:56:32 PM [Link]
Hardware All-Star Member Your other left 14594 Posts 3/02	Posted - Dec 20 2012 : 2:54PM CummingLinguist wrote: ...it means that fans are lusting after a body and a person. Click to expand Which is different from sexual pursuit in the real world? [Link]
CummingLinguist All-Star Member 5908 Posts 11/11	Posted - Dec 20 2012 : 2:58PM ^ No. But the commodification of sex is unique to porn and prostitution. Commodification involves some degree of objectification. A big mac is an object; a homegrown tomato is not to the same degree. [Link]

Hardware All-Star Member Your other left 14594 Posts 3/02	Posted - Dec 20 2012 : 3:03PM Oh, I don't know about that. What is a gold digger doing, if not using sexual allure as a barter item? [Link]
CummingLinguist All-Star Member 5908 Posts 11/11	Posted - Dec 20 2012 : 3:33PM ^ No doubt there are shades of grey in all human activities. But by "commodity" I mean "an good or service that enters into the capitalist marketplace." No doubt there are all kinds of quid pro quos, forms of exploitation, and efforts by people to sell themselves in all human interactions. But I think something is different (at least in degree if not in essence) when someone enters the commercial marketplace where goods and services are exchanged for currency. When a customer thinks, "Do I want to pay $5 to watch this woman have vaginal sex, or would I rather watch this other woman have a seven-man double anal gangbang?" or "Do I want to pay $200 to have sex with this woman, or would I rather spend $100 to have sex with that other woman?" it may not be 100% completely the opposite of asking, "Do I want to give up the opportunity to explore relationships with other women, so I can have a more intimate relationship with this woman?", but I think most people can see the difference. The first two involve objectification in a way that the third one doesn't. The gold-digger sits in a grey area, but the existence of shades of grey doesn't mean that some greys are so dark as to be functionally black while others are so light as to be functionally white. You may disagree, but I'm not terribly interested in exploring the subtleties of what qualifies as "objectification" or "commodification." I think the two concepts are related, but not identical. Not all objects are commodities, but I suspect that commodification involves some degree of objectification. [Link]
Draxxx Senior Member 3831 Posts 2/07	Posted - Dec 20 2012 : 8:37PM CummingLinguist wrote: I also hate facials, but I fear that the reason they are so common has less to do with anybody's beliefs about what fans want as the fact that these guys are working a lot, and they simply need to jerk off for a long time before they can come. What's a woman to do during while the stud's jerk off if not sit on their knees waiting for the money shot? Click to expand I think fans are very much into facials if this site is any indication of what fans like. Okay, I know this site consists of "super fans" but the fact that there's a negative term for girls who don't do facials (cum dodger) says that there's a lot of fans who prefer facials. As for me it doesn't matter and before I started visiting this site I never really paid attention to who does or doesn't and had no idea there was a name for girls that don't do facials. I tend to think the facial is another manner of objectifying women to a certain degree. Not that it's in the same league as some of the other harsher stuff and it's become a staple of porn but the person who originally came up with the practice didn't do it for the woman's pleasure or because they thought it was a nice thing to do. Of course, over time a simple facial wasn't enough and someone thought to take it a step further and purposely aim for the eyes. But in my opinion any objectification is okay as long as the people performing are okay with it and that the people watching remember/realize/respect that the performers doing this are actual people and it's performance. That objectifaction should stop when the performance ends. Even if a pornstar is up for anything for a performance doesn't mean fans get a free pass to treat them or think of them as an object when they aren't performing. Edited by - draxxx on 12/20/2012 8:38:31 PM [Link]
CummingLinguist All-Star Member 5908 Posts 11/11	Posted - Dec 21 2012 : 5:38AM ^ You're probably right. I started watching porn back in the day. Most scenes finished with the guy pulling out just before dumping his load either on the girl's belly or back, like a teenager who hadn't gotten a proper education in birth control. Today's studs are doing so many scenes that few of them could manage to cum because of sheer passion. So I think the quantity of porn that is made using a relatively small talent pool also influences changes in fashion. As for whether facials are degrading: I can simply say that I don't like them, and I wouldn't want to receive one. If a woman feels degraded while receiving one, or a viewer is getting off on the fantasy of degradation, then for those people, it's degrading, but I would shy away from making a blanket judgement. [Link]
jakejd4949 Senior Member 2938 Posts 8/06	Posted - Dec 21 2012 : 9:05AM I'm not sure that facials are considered degrading these days , they are so common place. A bit de-personalizing , probably . Lets be honest , who in thier real life does facials ? I have had sex with plenty of peopke , and I want to cum in your mouth , pussy or ass . It just seema ti kill a good scene , don't understand why they show thay guy yanking for minutes while the girl lokks bored waiting for him to pop . Why don't you at least have the girl jerk the guy off , have her involved a bit . You also make a good poiny about sex being a commodoity , example , the worlds oldest proffession . My wife watches The Real Housewives shows(ARGGGHHH!) , tell me thats not just simply a version of prostitution. Edited by - jakejd4949 on 12/21/2012 9:08:30 AM [Link]
Draxxx Senior Member 3831 Posts 2/07	Posted - Dec 21 2012 : 1:27PM jakejd4949 wrote: It just seema ti kill a good scene , don't understand why they show thay guy yanking for minutes while the girl lokks bored waiting for him to pop . Why don't you at least have the girl jerk the guy off , have her involved a bit. Click to expand While I think it's hotter to have the girl finish the guy off I don't mind that the guy usually has to do it themselves. The realities of performing porn dictate that the guys have to pop on command and that having sex so often make it harder for some performers to have the finish them off rather than being able to concentrate and get the job done themselves. The only problem I have with the guy finishing himself off is that some directors show it going on for too long and it just looks odd after a certain length of time. I can totally understand if a guy has trouble wrapping things up and even if it takes an hour that's okay with me but I don't need to see him struggling for more than a few seconds. [Link]
scenic Member 46 Posts 12/12	Posted - Dec 23 2012 : 12:40AM I haven't checked in for a while, but having read the thread I'm really pleased to see so many intelligent points raised (even if I don't agree with some of them!) In terms of facials, I think they're an absolute result of the commercialization of porn. As a woman, do I want to see a guy blowing a load over a 'willing' woman's face. Not so much. What I like to see is a guy properly cumming inside a woman, with all the associated actions and noises, because that's what I experience when I have sex - it's the thing that makes me cum when it's real life and it's the thing that gets me off when I watch porn. Sadly it seems to be the preserve of a very few companies who accompany it with soft lighting and the usual 'for woman romantic' stuff that does nothing for me. However, I understand that porn isn't generally made for women, so we have to put up with getting to a certain point and then the guy whips it out, the woman has to move in an instant - gets in in the mouth, on the face, etc. So, another genuine question - what is it about facials that makes them so popular? Porn history says it's about being able to show something at the end of a long fuck that signified the end of a scene, some women say it's about power (and to be honest I'm not entirely unmoved by that argument). Do you love facials? Do you accept them just because they're standard? Would you prefer to see something else? [Link]
JB_X Deactivated User addled 1500 Posts 10/12	Posted - Dec 23 2012 : 2:56AM scenic wrote: So I'm a girl that watches porn, and have been a long-time lurker. I understand porn is there to get us all off. Great. But what has dismayed me somewhat is the general callousness about the way people here talk about the porn stars they purport to like. There are a great many people who urge porn stars to do stuff they don't want to do, who enjoy seeing them doing things that cause them pain, who deride them for their looks, their weight, their tattoos, the surgery they feel they need to get to keep working. Click to expand I know I'm late to this thread, but your point here resonates with me big time. This is the single most aggravating thing about trying to sift through any of the threads supposedly dedicated to a performer. The same handful of people don't seem interested in discussing the girl's work as much as how she needs to do a specific act. In the threads dedicated to specific niches elsewhere on the forum, I don't have a problem with it. But every thread I performer thread I attempt to read is littered with posts like this. [Link]
scenic Member 46 Posts 12/12	Posted - Dec 23 2012 : 4:13AM To be honest I'm really surprised how many people this has resonated with! It renews my faith in guys who consume porn! [Link]
Draxxx Senior Member 3831 Posts 2/07	Posted - Dec 23 2012 : 9:10PM scenic wrote: In terms of facials, I think they're an absolute result of the commercialization of porn. As a woman, do I want to see a guy blowing a load over a 'willing' woman's face. Not so much. What I like to see is a guy properly cumming inside a woman, with all the associated actions and noises, because that's what I experience when I have sex - it's the thing that makes me cum when it's real life and it's the thing that gets me off when I watch porn. Sadly it seems to be the preserve of a very few companies who accompany it with soft lighting and the usual 'for woman romantic' stuff that does nothing for me. However, I understand that porn isn't generally made for women, so we have to put up with getting to a certain point and then the guy whips it out, the woman has to move in an instant - gets in in the mouth, on the face, etc. Click to expand I don't think you're ever going to see guys cumming inside women without seeing the cum. I think the first and foremost reason is that since the beginning of porn porn makers have stated that viewers want/need to see the guy cum to believe the sex is real. I know that sounds strange but I've heard it many times from different people. So if a guy does cum inside the girl will force it out to show the cum (creampie). I kinda get that on a certain level because we've been conditioned to mark the cum shot as the end of the sex. It would seem kinda odd to me if the guy just made the noises and came in or claim to have cum inside the woman without seeing the evidence. the first thing that would go through my mind is "He didn't really cum, he's just had enough and is calling it quits...". I know it's silly but it it would just seem odd. So, another genuine question - what is it about facials that makes them so popular? Porn history says it's about being able to show something at the end of a long fuck that signified the end of a scene, some women say it's about power (and to be honest I'm not entirely unmoved by that argument). Do you love facials? Do you accept them just because they're standard? Would you prefer to see something else? Click to expand I don't really care one way or the other. The only time it bothers me is if the girl doesn't seem to want to do it or they spend to much time on the guy just standing there trying to climax. Some girls seem to not mind and others seem to like it. I guess it's part of the job to them. Not only do most guys like to see it but the more cum the better apparently. You always see comments about if a guy doesn't produce a large enough load or how people talk about how many black performers don't shot enough of a load. The ultimate of this taken to the extreme is Bukakae(sp)where people get off on the girl being covered. I don't like the silly "gimmick" stuff like the guy cumming in a cup/bowl for the girl to drink or two girls trying to pass it back and forth. But the nature of the biz is they hav to keep coming up with new things to keep the audience interested so I get why they do some of the stuff they do. Facials are a porn thing and I'm sure the act has implications but most things in porn do too. The fact that porn is mostly made for men by men dictates that some of it will turn off women. It's the same in other mediums made for men by men. At some point women will just have to accept some of this stuff if they are fans of porn and don't want or like the porn made with them in mind. Not what some people want to hear but the fact is that some things are made for men, some for women, and some for children. Sometimes to appeal to that audience the most you have to include things that may turn off a certain segment of the overall audience. You can't (or shouldn't) waterdown all entertainment to try and please everyone. Not to say you're asking for that to happen but unfortunately for you I think it's something you're stuck with. Click to expand [Link]
RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Dec 24 2012 : 12:49AM scenic wrote: So, another genuine question - what is it about facials that makes them so popular? Porn history says it's about being able to show something at the end of a long fuck that signified the end of a scene, some women say it's about power (and to be honest I'm not entirely unmoved by that argument). Do you love facials? Do you accept them just because they're standard? Would you prefer to see something else? Click to expand I like facials but I like oral cumshots much better. I do think for many men, it's about power and dominance and I don't think there's a thing wrong with that. Problems only arise (in my opinion) when actresses agree to do it even though they absolutely hate it. I personally don't really want to see that. It's kind of cute if she gags on cum or something but she's still pretty much OK with it (Believe it or not I have seen this more than a few times). If it's obvious that she hates his guts for cumming in her mouth, it pretty much ruins the cumshot. I really don't want to see women doing things they hate. Unfortunately (and I know this isn't very PC of me to say) I think this is sometimes the girl's fault. The director probably does ask if she's OK with it before the scene and some girls probably lie and say they are because they are living exclusively on the funds generated by their porn work and they need the next payday yesterday. As much as I hate to say it, girls who do this have no one else to blame because it's very simple logic. If porn is your only job and you spend the money fast, you aren't going to have any choice but to agree to just about everything they want you to do. So often, girls end up on their knees scowling and making all kinds of horrible faces and making it obvious that they're miserable and the people who feel sorry for them blame the people who like facials and/or oral cumshots. How are we supposed to defend ourselves when these types of people always side with women regardless of the circumstances? We ask for the content but we don't all get off on yuck faces. Edited by - randomprecision on 12/24/2012 2:51:56 AM [Link]
CummingLinguist All-Star Member 5908 Posts 11/11	Posted - Dec 24 2012 : 5:46AM Draxxx wrote: I don't think you're ever going to see guys cumming inside women without seeing the cum. I think the first and foremost reason is that since the beginning of porn porn makers have stated that viewers want/need to see the guy cum to believe the sex is real. I know that sounds strange but I've heard it many times from different people. So if a guy does cum inside the girl will force it out to show the cum (creampie). I kinda get that on a certain level because we've been conditioned to mark the cum shot as the end of the sex. It would seem kinda odd to me if the guy just made the noises and came in or claim to have cum inside the woman without seeing the evidence. the first thing that would go through my mind is "He didn't really cum, he's just had enough and is calling it quits...". I know it's silly but it it would just seem odd. Click to expand To me the main attraction of pornography over other forms of erotic entertainment is that the sex is real, so I don't want to see fake orgasms from the guys, and frankly, if they could get away with faking, they would. (I also like to see real female orgasms. One of the only websites I ever subscribed to was Abbywinters, and this was largely because of the real female orgasms.) To me the best cum shots are a compromise between letting the viewer see that it's real and letting the passion explode. The one at 1:25 mark in this trailer gives some idea. [Link]
scenic Member 46 Posts 12/12	Posted - Jan 8 2013 : 2:52AM I agree. For me, this is one of the hottest guys fucking I've ever seen...I have no idea who he is, but bloody hell, he's good! Mod edit: Please don't post stolen content links here they're far from welcome. Many of our members produce and sell porn, we don't promote those sites who harm legitimate companies who also happen to sponsor this site. Please read the linked thread below to understand our position on tube sites. Link Edited by - Jonny Jay on 1/8/2013 10:04:39 AM [Link]
CummingLinguist All-Star Member 5908 Posts 11/11	Posted - Jan 8 2013 : 8:10AM Post cropped, the description leads posters to view tube sites Enjoying something and consenting to it are two different things. The law recognizes that certain people, for instance children, aren't capable of giving legal consent to have sex, and a contract signed by an imbecile would never hold up in court. Obviously porn stars consent to do things they don't enjoy to do the money. Sometimes we might find amateur porn where the performers are clearly enjoying themselves, but the issue of consent is blurry because of their impaired state of mind. I fully understand that kids would be having a lot less sex in college if it weren't for alcohol, and I'm not saying that every drunken coupling that takes place in a college door is effectively rape, but there's a difference between waking up the next morning, and thinking "Oh shit, I slept with this person!" and waking up the next morning and thinking, "Oh shit my parents might see this." Maybe this girl woke up, thinking, "Wow, that was incredible." In which case, I don't have a problem. But I'll admit my enjoyment of the video (which was physical) was tinged by a hint of guilt, because I wasn't 100% sure that she would have been comfortable doing this if she weren't impaired. Sorry for the rambling note. How do people feel about porn where the performers are clearly enjoying themselves, but may be drunk or stoned, and therefore not fully able to consent? Edited to bold main points. Edited by - cumminglinguist on 1/8/2013 8:32:24 AM Edited by - Jonny Jay on 1/8/2013 10:09:37 AM [Link]
jakejd4949 Senior Member 2938 Posts 8/06	Posted - Jan 8 2013 : 9:33AM I absolutely agree with you , facials are fairly silly , ruin the ending to a good scene with a girl on her knees pretending to be super excited(think , "is he gonna pop so I can go get something to eat already") while dude jacks himself for eternity. There was a series , HJ's Oral Creampie that showed how it can be done . X-Art also hade mostly good ending . Either finish the guy off orally ,(yes , you can show us the evidence) , with you hand or a creampie . Body shots can be ok if the girl strokes him as he's cumming , still better than a facial . A great example , and one of my all time favorite scenes , Addison Heart , cutie bubbly who only did a few scenes , in Throated 26 was blowing him , and he came in her mouth as she squeeled , than laughed as she said that she had never done that before . Facials do nothing for me , a woman loving stroking a mans cock or taking him in her mouth as he comes is much more intimate and sexy . scenic wrote: I haven't checked in for a while, but having read the thread I'm really pleased to see so many intelligent points raised (even if I don't agree with some of them!) In terms of facials, I think they're an absolute result of the commercialization of porn. As a woman, do I want to see a guy blowing a load over a 'willing' woman's face. Not so much. What I like to see is a guy properly cumming inside a woman, with all the associated actions and noises, because that's what I experience when I have sex - it's the thing that makes me cum when it's real life and it's the thing that gets me off when I watch porn. Sadly it seems to be the preserve of a very few companies who accompany it with soft lighting and the usual 'for woman romantic' stuff that does nothing for me. However, I understand that porn isn't generally made for women, so we have to put up with getting to a certain point and then the guy whips it out, the woman has to move in an instant - gets in in the mouth, on the face, etc. So, another genuine question - what is it about facials that makes them so popular? Porn history says it's about being able to show something at the end of a long fuck that signified the end of a scene, some women say it's about power (and to be honest I'm not entirely unmoved by that argument). Do you love facials? Do you accept them just because they're standard? Would you prefer to see something else? [/quote] [Link]
CummingLinguist All-Star Member 5908 Posts 11/11	Posted - Jan 8 2013 : 9:37PM ^^ & ^^^ For people who might not understand my post, Scenic pointed to a video on a tube site, I anticipated that the link would get pulled, and basically said how to google it, so that others could know exactly what we were talking about. I apologize for trying to skirt the spirit of the rules. I hope readers can follow the discussion by simply knowing that the chick very hot, very wasted (but nowhere near passing out drunk), and very into it. [Link]

Author

Post

scenic
Member

46 Posts
12/12

Posted - Dec 15 2012 : 11:38PM

So I'm a girl that watches porn, and have been a long-time lurker. I understand porn is there to get us all off. Great. But what has dismayed me somewhat is the general callousness about the way people here talk about the porn stars they purport to like. There are a great many people who urge porn stars to do stuff they don't want to do, who enjoy seeing them doing things that cause them pain, who deride them for their looks, their weight, their tattoos, the surgery they feel they need to get to keep working.
If your favorite girl doesn't want to do a DP, why would you push her to do it? If someone doesn't do interracial (I don't get that, but it's her choice), why would you be shitty about her until she does? Etc etc.
This will no doubt be terribly unpopular, but if you as a bloke had to take a huge cock up your ass (and be paid $1,000 for it, so lets not debate about the cash they're paid) would you do it? I doubt it. Would you want to be face-fucked until you vomited for $500? Probably not. It's very nice to be a step away and deride the people that provide you with wank fodder, but it's a woman at the end of it, and however she arrived in porn she's worth a bit more thought than just an asshole that hurts when it's fucked.

[Link]

Hardware

All-Star Member

Your other left
14594 Posts
3/02

Posted - Dec 16 2012 : 12:07AM

Consider the old traveling carnival shows that attracted crowds by featuring all manner of odd and bizarre acts - geeks, freaks and sword-swallowers, to name a few.
I don't see the point of it, myself, but I do recognize that it isn't porn that brings the gawkers out, they've been around all the time.

[Link]

scenic
Member

46 Posts
12/12

Posted - Dec 16 2012 : 12:47AM

I'm not sure I get your point. Mine was that the people who purport to like/love the women who work in porn are the ones who push them to do things they may not be comfortable with.
We've had freak shows since victorian times of course, but they were passive people to be stared at, not people to be hounded into doing things for the sexual enjoyment of strangers.

[Link]

Hardware

All-Star Member

Your other left
14594 Posts
3/02

Posted - Dec 16 2012 : 2:23AM

There's nothing passive about biting the heads off of chickens or swallowing swords.
I'm not trying to discount your concern, I'm just pointing out that there have always been people who treat everybody else as objects for their amusement, and who don't care about the risks they ask others to take.

[Link]

scenic
Member

46 Posts
12/12

Posted - Dec 16 2012 : 2:50AM

I agree, but all I'm saying is that the people on here who purport to love and 'respect' the porn stars they like are the ones who pressure those women to do stuff that they're not comfortable doing. Look at the threads about 'x should do anal' 'x should do dp' 'x should do IR'. Do any of those guys consider why x doesn't want to do it? I would bet not. Do they care about why she doesn't want to do it? Not a jot. They care about how it'll get them off when she eventually does it. I understand that's the point of porn, but it's an absolute hypocrisy and that's what pisses me off.

[Link]

aclayfan

All-Star Member

5059 Posts
8/11

Posted - Dec 16 2012 : 3:14AM

^ Well, you're on target with your comments. However, with that kind of insight you may not be happy here.

[Link]

RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Enjoy!
8175 Posts
3/06

Posted - Dec 16 2012 : 4:23AM

Welcome to ADT.

Well, there are all types of different people here. Porn fans come in all flavors. Some are just very honest about what they think. Of course there's no need for anyone to be intentionally mean when talking about their favorites or others in the porn business. Sometimes there's just no delicate way to say what you need to say.
Porn is the kind of business where you (as a consumer) will end up saying things that are kind of rude if you want to get your point across.
Also, there are people who do try to publicly bully their favorites into doing things like DP. I do find that a bit mean. On the other hand, it's not outside the realm of possibility that a girl would not really have a problem with something like DP but she knows that when her work starts to dwindle, this is how she can take it to the next level. I have noticed there aren't too many girls who don't end up doing things they appeared to resist doing at first.
Now it's complete guesswork as to whether they really didn't want to do it or whether they were just holding back so they'd have some things in reserve. Who knows? If it's the latter, they aren't exactly going to announce it because that kind of ruins the excitement when they announce they're finally going to do it.
As far as tattoos and surgery, I must confess to being one of those who complains about them but I try not to mention names. If I do mention someone by name, I try to simply state my opinion that it isn't my thing and leave it at that. I try not to deride any specific girls for their decisions.
As far as weight, I'm one who likes the more curvy girls or girls with bigger butts and so forth. I will occasionally mention that I'm not crazy about skinny girls. I don't mean there's anything wrong with them. It's just not my cup of tea. The same as saying I prefer redheads over blondes. There's nothing wrong with blondes. It's just a preference. As a customer, I have to express myself. Believe me, I am very mindful of the fact that it might hurt their feelings if I don't express it the right way. And that it might bother them no matter how I say it. Sometimes you just can't avoid being a little impolite.

Yes. But I'm a bi bloke. I'd probably do it for free if I was in the mood for a huge cock up my ass.

I'd probably do it for $500. Yeah. I'd prefer to be warned ahead of time so I didn't eat anything right before. But if I was selling my sex for the camera, I'd do pretty much whatever they wanted for the right price. That's basically the deal. I mean, it's nice if the girls can say what they will and won't do. I wouldn't expect them to do anything that they really hated. But me personally? It wouldn't bother me much to do basically anything I could survive. I'd be more bothered about doing porn in the first place because I'm shy and I wouldn't want to be recognized all the time.
Anyway, porn is about what you'll do for what price. It's business. I do sympathize with the girls who don't like the rough stuff or the ones who don't want 3 cocks in their ass at the same time. But you have to know going in that....
1. A new porn star typically has an expiration date. If she's new and she's hot and popular, she's going to get a lot of work. But that typically doesn't last forever for most stars. Only the lucky few will maintain that level of popularity for more than maybe a couple of years. If that.
2. People are going to want to see their favorite girls doing the things they like seeing.
3. The people who make porn are going to try and satisfy their audience. They have to. It's their business. It's what they do.
People who are going into porn need to watch the most popular porn of the day and ask themselves if they're going to be comfortable with doing that. Or if not, are they going to have an alternative source of income. Because it's this simple. If they're not doing what's popular, they're not going to get much work. It's nothing personal. No one wants to starve them. Most of us don't want to punish them for not doing the right things. We simply don't have unlimited amounts of money to spend on porn that we don't even want to see.
If a guy likes anal and a hot new girl isn't doing anal, he's probably going to ask. Some of these guys get a bit out of line though. I do agree. They get too aggressive. I think maybe some of them are trolling, really.

Unfortunately, it's not the audience's job to worry about any of this. We're simply buying a product. If these people have any problems with what they're doing, they need to look out for themselves because nobody else will. At the end of the day, they'll go home sore, angry, maybe a little hurt. They have their money. This is what they agreed to do for the price. Everyone who works makes the same decision. What are you willing to do for your money? Porn is not an easy way to make money when you add everything that's involved together. It can destroy people who don't manage their porn careers wisely and people who don't take care of themselves and look out for their own interests.
They have to be willing to say no sometimes.
They have to be able to say no. They need financial backup so they don't have to shoot a scene every day in order to keep eating. Anyone who depends on porn to stay alive and spends the money as fast as they make it is going to end up doing things she doesn't want to do.
I DO respect them. If I didn't I would have never spent the amount of time I've spent writing about them on this forum.
Edited by - randomprecision on 12/16/2012 4:25:42 AM

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Dan
Senior Member

2056 Posts
6/07

Posted - Dec 16 2012 : 5:42AM

I think this forum already has rules about being polite towards porn stars, because some porn stars also read this forum and sometimes post their comments. The moderators here remind people to be polite, and they delete impolite comments that violate the rules. And I'd say that vast majority of people here are polite.
Perhaps if you give some quotes of what people have said in this forum in the past, or links to such posts, then it would be easier to judge how fair or unfair your complaint is.
I think porn stars should be allowed to speak for themselves and voice their complaints if they have any. They are adults too, and they don't need someone else to represent their views in a general forum like this. The problem with speaking on behalf of others without their authorization, is that quite often such speaking doesn't represent what they want.

[Link]

Draxxx
Senior Member

3831 Posts
2/07

Posted - Dec 16 2012 : 8:01AM

The quick simple answer is that many fans don't really think of pornstars as actual people but sexbots that are supposed to do what "fans" want. They're only a "fan" as long as that pornstar as long as they behave in the way they want. That's why so many supposed "fans" are quick to "drop" a pornstar the moment they say something they don't like, gain weight, get tattoos, get a boobjob, not do certain acts, etc...Those type of fans somehow feel justifed by making such demands because they feel that the girl owes them because they are a "fan" and they spent money on their movies. The "fans" who don't actually pay for porn just feel the sexbot should be willing to do anything some fans want because after all she's a pornstar.
I don't think it's unreasonable to request or want to see your fav porngirl do whatever you're into but it gets ugly/creepy when a fan "demands" she does something and won't let it go or berates the girl for not wanting to do it or is more than willing to stop being a "fan" because the girl doesn't want to do what that "fan" wants.
Unfortunately, as you can see from the people here some porn fans here thee are who get off on women being "abused" to a certain extent. They don't care if the girl doesn't appears to be enjoying enjoying the act and some actually enjoy seeing the girl in pain. They view the girls as objects that things are done to.
Then you have the aspect of porn that performers, directors, and studios constantly have to deal with to keep fans interested..."Okay, what's next?" aspect. Pretty much every girl has to deal with this. At first the fans are just happy to see her having sex. Then after a few scenes the fans want to see something "new" (different) so they start in with request/demands. They want IR, then IR with the biggest guys, then two guys, etc...They want anal sex, then anal with the biggest guys, then DPs, then gangbangs. Basically it's never enough and the girl needs to constantly up the stakes to keep them interested. But in the end many fans will eventually get bored with that girl no matter what they do and move on to the next girl.
This all can be all unsettling to watch but unfortunately it's the nature of the business and isn't going to change. You would always hope some fans would at least be more aware that pornstars aren't unfeeling sexbots that you can bark orders at but that's not going to change either.

[Link]

Dan
Senior Member

2056 Posts
6/07

Posted - Dec 16 2012 : 8:09AM

^
When a porn lady bares her nice ass for male porn fans to see, then it's only inevitable that these porn fans will start having all kinds of sex fantasies about her. Because this is normal human nature.
The only question is, how openly and how honestly should porn fans be allowed to express their fantasies and feelings about the porn stars they like?
To me, it makes no sense that a lady would make guys fantasize about her and then complain that she doesn't like some of their fantasies. Because people are naturally diverse in their thinking and feeling. They are bound to have a wide variety of fantasies, whenever the sexy lady shows them her body to fantasize about. This kind of thing is inevitable, and it's natural too.
Edited by - Dan on 12/16/2012 8:10:59 AM

[Link]

BumBum
Member

395 Posts
1/07

Posted - Dec 16 2012 : 9:27AM

I agree with scenic. On my fantasy life, the gals all love what they are doing sexually. Nobody is is mean to anyone else, because that's no fun. Just great, ecstatic, orgasmic fun.
I don't want to see things I would not want to do, like DPs, choking, slapping (except butts), gagging, ATM, gang bangs.
I want to see good looking gals having enjoyable anal sex.
But I understand that other people have different proclivities, so I just watch what I like and assume other people watch what they like.

[Link]

CummingLinguist

All-Star Member

5908 Posts
11/11

Posted - Dec 16 2012 : 9:58AM

Welcome.
I was originally going to claim that I don't succumb to this particular sin, but then I remembered that I once wrote this.
I was being a little shitty in the earlier post, so let me say right now, that Taylor Vixen is not only gorgeous, but in my mind, she is 100% PORN STAR.

(That said, I have never jerked off to her, and if she ever decides to take cock on camera, I promise to give her a standing salute.)

[Link]

SUCKER4NICETITS
Member

MY FUTURE WIFE MADISON IVY
810 Posts
5/07

Posted - Dec 16 2012 : 10:34AM

Scenic,
I agree with you 1000%!
Why make the performers do things they don't want to do? It is so much hotter to see people enjoying the sex, then trying to endure the scene for a paycheck.

[Link]

Draxxx
Senior Member

3831 Posts
2/07

Posted - Dec 16 2012 : 4:20PM

The problem is that some fans have no tact and make demands of a pornstar or just keep pestering her with the same requests or talks badly about her if she doesn't do what they want. Like I said there's nothing wrong with wanting to see a pornstar do something and requesting it but some fans need to remember that pornstars ar actual human beings with feelings.

Why doesn't it make sense? Everyone's free to have their fantasies but that doesn't mean a pornstar is obligated to perform them. I don't think pornstars say or think most fantasies are wrong/bad but they choose not to want to perform them. There aren't any rules/laws saying that they must cater to every fantasy/fetish fans request of them.

[Link]

LCF

All-Star Member

Non Prevalebunt!
10364 Posts
1/05

Posted - Dec 16 2012 : 4:32PM

Well I completely concur with scenic here.
I'm one of those are keep saying the same every now and then
and no I'm not a woman
welcome to ADT scenic

[Link]

ninja1
Senior Member

2939 Posts
1/08

Posted - Dec 16 2012 : 5:01PM

Yeah, it's not cool to make unreasonable demands of a pornstar. If a porn performer doesn't do what you want, fuck her (figuratively) and find a different performer to follow. Likewise, if a porn producer doesn't do what you want, fuck 'em and buy your porn from a different producer. No need to get personal or abusive or demanding about it. IMO if a producer or director or performer is pressured to go beyond their comfort/skill/ability/interest level, the result will probably be lousy anyway.
Edited by - ninja1 on 12/16/2012 5:10:10 PM

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a9nostic
Senior Member

1056 Posts
8/08

Posted - Dec 16 2012 : 8:14PM

I can see your point, scenic, but I can't agree with you.
If porn-stars are not paid a lot of money to fulfill people's fantasies, whether they like them or not, why are they paid so much money? Why should a porn-star be privileged in that they get to like everything about their job, while virtually no one else does? Should a person with no other real skills but can still make $1000 per day, really complain that she may be asked to do anal? You know, they all could flip burgers with no big cocks in their asses for around $64 per day, before taxes.
This question seems unreal. What are porn-stars for, then?

[Link]

Hardware

All-Star Member

Your other left
14594 Posts
3/02

Posted - Dec 16 2012 : 9:13PM

Porn stars are paid so much money because producers expect to make even more money from their performances, which is exactly the same reason performers in every other field get paid.
There is no inherent requirement that every performer fulfill every fantasy out there, any more than there is an inherent requirement that every band perform every song out there.
Why don't you demand that the Rolling Stones do Whole Lotta Love - see how far that gets you.

[Link]

Dan
Senior Member

2056 Posts
6/07

Posted - Dec 17 2012 : 6:20AM

I think the rules and the moderation in this forum is adequate enough for everyone to talk freely about porn. I don't see any need for change here. People who are disrespectful get banned from this forum.
There is nothing wrong with porn fans asking for something they want to see. That's what being a porn fan is all about. You don't just watch porn passively and accept whatever is available. You become so interested and that you want to participate in some small way. And this is where porn fans get to say their fantasies and wishes.

[Link]

RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Enjoy!
8175 Posts
3/06

Posted - Dec 17 2012 : 7:26AM

No, but they should expect that it's going to happen. Imagine for a moment that you're a hot 19 year old right now and you're thinking about going into porn. Now let's assume you don't like throat fucking, IR or anal. Period. Not only does it do nothing for you but you absolutely hate it. It's torture to you.
Wouldn't you expect someone to ask you to do these things in the porn business? If not, why not? Don't you think these girls should watch the most popular porn movies to see what's popular before they sign any papers?
I don't want to sound rude but I'm getting tired of my tastes in porn being blamed because people I never met made bad decisions and didn't look before they leaped. Or worse. Some of them did, never complained a bit and their volunteer army of saviors are interpreting every sour expression or painful grimace as evidence that they want and need representation out here. If they have a problem with it, I'd rather hear it from them than you. Who are you? Did you ever do porn? Are you even female? I don't know.
If any of them have regrets, they should publish them under the porn name they're known for. What is the point of some random person out here speaking for them when they don't even know if they want to be spoken for?

[Link]

Draxxx
Senior Member

3831 Posts
2/07

Posted - Dec 17 2012 : 9:36AM

Again, for the 3rd time...There's nothing wrong with requests but some people have no tact when they make those requests and forget that pornstar is a person with feelings. Some people pester porngirls to do things in an annoying way. Some fans get nasty and say nasty things when they don't get what they want. It's those fans that are annoying.

There are plenty of girls who make a nice living from porn and have sizable fanbases without doing some of the stuff mentioned. A girl enters the biz with an idea of what she willing or able to do. There's no set of rules that dictate she has to do every porn act someone wants her to do. Yes, she probably will miss out on work because of her choices but she knows that better than anyone because she's the one turning it down. If she's okay with that that's all that maters. If her choices cause her to miss out on work and chooses not to do it that's completely and totally up to her.

Too bad for you but it doesn't change anything. Porngirls will do what they want or don't want to do regardless of what their fans or random porn fans want from them. Regardless of people reminding others that pornstars don't need to or have to oblige every request/demand. In the end if that girl tells a fan directly they have no interest in doing something or if that fan hears it from their "army of saviors" the end result is not everyone gets what they want. I'm sure every pornstar out there is more than aware what's popular in porn and what fans generally want to see. If they choose to do whatever, whenever they would without getting that direct request demand from each fan.

[Link]

MrPurple
Member

381 Posts
5/09

Posted - Dec 17 2012 : 10:05PM

scenic wrote:
So I'm a girl that watches porn, and have been a long-time lurker. I understand porn is there to get us all off. Great. But what has dismayed me somewhat is the general callousness about the way people here talk about the porn stars they purport to like. There are a great many people who urge porn stars to do stuff they don't want to do, who enjoy seeing them doing things that cause them pain, who deride them for their looks, their weight, their tattoos, the surgery they feel they need to get to keep working.
If your favorite girl doesn't want to do a DP, why would you push her to do it? If someone doesn't do interracial (I don't get that, but it's her choice), why would you be shitty about her until she does? Etc etc.
This will no doubt be terribly unpopular, but if you as a bloke had to take a huge cock up your ass (and be paid $1,000 for it, so lets not debate about the cash they're paid) would you do it? I doubt it. Would you want to be face-fucked until you vomited for $500? Probably not. It's very nice to be a step away and deride the people that provide you with wank fodder, but it's a woman at the end of it, and however she arrived in porn she's worth a bit more thought than just an asshole that hurts when it's fucked.
Click to expand

I agree with you completely. But... Speaking generally, for men it's all about domination (light/hard/medium, don't matter). I believe that applies to even those that are not aware of it.
Phoenix Marie is a perfect example of a TRUE pornstar that wrote on here just a while back that she would never do a gangbang because the idea didn't turn her on (this was a girl who really knew the ropes and did nasty things, but still said no to blowbangs/gangbangs), and this year she did two "mini-gangbangs" (?).
She didn't seem to enjoy it as far as I could interpret it (as she did explain in the beginning to why she wouldn't) but she did the deed anyway. Why? Pressure from fans, from herself and from the industry. Here is this strong, smart and popular woman that have been in the business for many years, is vocal about never doing such a thing to a year later getting fucked in every possible way, becoming airtight and tossed around like a ragdoll. Everything she said she didn't want to do and be subjected to.
It has a bit of conquer element to it. And that is satisfactory in a dominating/submissive way.

Someone once said that porn is an intimate thing cause you are watching these beautiful women and they are allowing you to watch them. It becomes something of an acceptance thing. How far can you go/demand they go and they still please you because they want to please you?
I don't find it strange or wrong one bit. Sure, they are human too, but they are fantasies first and foremost from where we sit. Like I said, I agree with you about tact etc but motivations for some things can easily be found in the mind of the depraved.

[Link]

scenic
Member

46 Posts
12/12

Posted - Dec 17 2012 : 10:14PM

Thanks all for your considered replies.
I should say that I don't see myself as someone who is on any kind of crusade to represent porn women - and that's not what I intended by my original post - I'm a porn consumer as much as you guys. Not only that, but I'm not a woman who thinks porn should be all rose petals and soft filters - egads that shit is generally grim!
I was just interested in the almost casual misogyny that often appears here. I understand that women (and men for that matter) could flip burgers rather than appear in porn, it's obviously a choice, but there are only a few jobs that a) entail pressure to endure physical pain to earn money - would people on here wish those working in McDonalds to plunge their hands into a deep fat fryer (if they were paid enough) for their enjoyment? And b) it's an industry that draws a lot of people who have been abused in some way and have really skewed ideas about their desirability etc - however much they think it doesn't. And even fewer jobs where someone is enduring physical pain is positively encouraged and reveled in. Also, how you feel about knowing that they're only doing it because they're paid - not because they genuinely enjoy it. Is that something you prefer not to think about?
I'm absolutely not trying to wind people up, I'm genuinely interested. As a woman I find threads about people asking for recommendations of scenes where performers cry during anal, or where the cock is too big and they're clearly in pain a bit off. Hence my question about how many guys would like to take a giant cock up their arse.
Again, thank you for your intelligent and thought out responses. I am certainly not judging in any way, and like I said, I'm interested in how we all consume the product. I have my own reservations and dilemmas about the stuff I view (and get off on!), so I'm pleased to hear your opinions!

[Link]

Gore Gore Girl

Doctor of the Erotic Arts

7238 Posts
1/09

Posted - Dec 18 2012 : 12:40PM

I think it's more than a bit "off," and there are plenty of men who feel the same way you do - you don't have to be a woman to be disgusted by overt misogyny. If you were to post similar desires for real violence and misery inflicted on a specific type of person/persons other than women (or maybe women in sex work), I suspect you would meet with a very different response.

[Link]

Gore Gore Girl

Doctor of the Erotic Arts

7238 Posts
1/09

Posted - Dec 18 2012 : 12:41PM

And also, welcome to ADT! :)

[Link]

RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Enjoy!
8175 Posts
3/06

Posted - Dec 18 2012 : 3:08PM

Preface. I'm responding to these posts a bit backwards because of the way I skip around when I'm reading threads. Hope it isn't too confusing.

Millions of people have loved the "sport" of boxing where the object is to knock someone the fuck out. Are all of those people sick? How do you knock someone out without hurting them? Punching someone in the face isn't violent?
That's actually a rhetorical question. In this day and age, so many people are so afraid to admit they got a primal thrill from something that's a bit edgy and dark.
I would not attack you if you expressed a sexual appetite for men in pain. Many women do, in fact, have this "fetish". And they are almost never attacked for their sexual fantasies. I have seen porn that features women repeatedly kicking men in the nuts. Hard. I admit it's a tiny niche but it is there.
I admit some people go too far and it should never be done without the consent of the women in the scenes. Most of the time what I see is a woman who obviously consented. She may get a little upset. She might cry. She might break down a bit but you can usually tell they have consented. Though it could be hard to tell the difference.
Edited by - randomprecision on 12/18/2012 3:11:14 PM

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Gore Gore Girl

Doctor of the Erotic Arts

7238 Posts
1/09

Posted - Dec 18 2012 : 5:16PM

^ I'm not sure which parts are directed at me/who the "you" is. A generic "you"? Perhaps, but you quoted me so... I never said anyone was "sick" nor do I think I "attacked" anyone, unless you consider my being disturbed to be an attack. I also do not find the verbal/written expression of feelings to be problematic in itself and would never attack someone (again, I guess that depends on what you mean by attack) for articulating their thoughts and feelings. As you note, many people feel and think things like this but do not articulate them. On the other hand, I think it's critical to interrogate cultural attitudes, though I know you do not.
Anyway, I think the questions you raise (either explicitly or implicitly) are important. I have used the boxing analogy in the past, though in a slightly different context that highlights the differences: boxing is lauded, porn is not. Boxers are held up as icons, and often go on to generic celebrity status (often family friendly) while porn performers generally are not/do not. I think it's interesting to ponder why, when as you point out there are so many similarities. I have my own theories I won't bore you with.

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RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Enjoy!
8175 Posts
3/06

Posted - Dec 18 2012 : 7:18PM

Well, I was commenting on the part where you said -

It's possible that I misinterpreted it. Maybe "attack" isn't necessarily the right word but frankly, this subject seems to come up on ADT at least once every couple of weeks and has ever since I've been here (minus maybe a few slow spots here and there). I'm just tired of it and am usually not in a mood to mince words too much when this week's episode comes along. It was really nothing personal.
I just find it sad that porn performers are not trusted to make their own choices. Even bad ones. I have never blamed anyone else for my bad choices. And I've made a lot of them.

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JohnW
Senior Member

1351 Posts
6/08

Posted - Dec 20 2012 : 12:38PM

I've commented on this subject in the past too, but I'll just make a few points re misogyny.
There are some significant factors here that are interconnected but needs to be mentioned separately.
1) Consumerism. People do give direct and honest feedback about the product they consume. A lot of this feedback can seem harsher than for other products because the stars and their bodies and their behavior is such a central part of the product as opposed other kinds of popular culture. Yes, popular culture in general is very sexually charged and we even obsess with actors/singers' bodies but porn by its nature will always be even more focused on it.
2) Cultural/religious stigma. For all the popularity of porn, there's no use in pretending that we are rid of centuries old stigma with regards to sexuality. Girls outside of porn (and in porn) still have to think of their reputation. Expectations and taboos are still so ingrained in our culture that they still influence everyone's behavior and of course this puts extra pressure on the people in the business.
3) Misogyny. Exactly where stating personal preferences end and misogyny begins is not something I'm going to try to have an opinion about, but when you've spent some time on various forums reading about sex you do recognize certain patterns/arguments/opinions after a while. ADT is so much better than most other places but I still get that bad vibe from some posts here. Some people say cruel things about women with such an ease that its hard to explain it away by the fact that they're just stating their preferences or "having fun" or some political bullshit about a "war on men" or similar.
You can hardly fix the first two, so this will remain a problem particularly with porn. As for the latter... I suppose misogynists have a harder time now compared to decades ago, but considering how much better ADT is compared to other places... Its just something that is there. If you haven't read worse than you've found on ADT, I would suggest you be careful about browsing forums elsewhere.
Edited by - JohnW on 12/20/2012 12:40:38 PM

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CummingLinguist

All-Star Member

5908 Posts
11/11

Posted - Dec 20 2012 : 1:39PM

^ I agree with you on all three points, and I would add that each of them interacts with the others in complex ways.
For instance, the commodification of sex necessitates turning people into sex objects. In the case of hetero porn marketed to men, this involves turning women into sex objects, which is itself a form of misogyny.

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Hardware

All-Star Member

Your other left
14594 Posts
3/02

Posted - Dec 20 2012 : 2:09PM

It is interesting that this is such a common notion, because what makes one 'sex object' interesting to me while another 'sex object' is not isn't just looks, but personality. Granted, it may be a persona adopted for the role of 'porn star', but I don't think that alters the fact that I'm not content with just a physical 'sex object'.

[Link]

jakejd4949
Senior Member

2938 Posts
8/06

Posted - Dec 20 2012 : 2:44PM

You have posed some very interesting and thoughtfull questions . Good to see a womans point of view here . I don't believe that any performer should work with another they don't like , or be pushed into doing something they are not comfortable with . I is a bit different if they are willing to try and push themselves , say some of the scenes at kink or a good example Katie St Ives try at DP , in Dark Meat 4 . Belladonna showed all of the fotage , with Katie struggling to pull the scene off .
Pushing performers to their limits with there permission is quite accetable , as long as you stop if they reach what they are ok with . Roxy Jezel was nearly brutalized by Rocco in Rocco in Rocco Ravishes Ibiza 2 , the bts shows Roxy and Rocco watching the fotage afterwards , she is quite ok with what went on . There are a number of very smart women in porn , who know what thier limits are and don't mind going there - the scenes they shoot are much more real and genuine , stars such as Roxy , Katie , Belladonna , Jenna Haze and others . I have recently watches a few scenes with Jesse Andrews and Lizzy London , both newcomers who have been willing to try dominant "forced" sex .
That is actually the crux of the situation , I would never want to see a woman really harmed in any way , I personally believe the rape laws are far too lenient . i have been married more than a decade , and would never want my wife to be anything other than happy . Sexually , i do like to be dominant , my wife enjoys some very hard and a bit rough sex at times . It does give me a bit of caveman thrill when I fill her completely , and have every inch of her . We had sex the other night , and she was a bit sore the next day-joking about having a tough time sitting down , which gave the cro-magnon aspect of my brain satisfaction . The desire to dominate and subjugate a woman is so hard wired into our primitive brain , but it can be controlled - many woman sek to be subtly dominated , watching Charlotte Vale , who is in a sub relationship and clearly enjoys the role is quite a turn on .
You mention the painfull ass fucking thread , yes , we like to see a "suffer" and and be subdued by a mans cock , just like all the threads on gagging ect . As a previous poster mentioned , it's similar to boxing or football , hell , does any one watch nascar just to see the crashes ? Yup. I and others also enjoy watching women dom other women , ala Ultimate Surrender or No Warning . Watching Sinn Sage give Cassandra Nix and Kara Price thier first on screen anal in No warning 6 was super intense .
As to looks , I think most of the comments are on what we finf atractive , most of us do not like bad boob jobs(or boob jobs at all) , like many here I like curvy , natural looking women over the Jenna Jameson types.
To close this long post , I will say that i think most of us here find Max Hardcore and the Facial Abuse guy reprehensible (even if we watch it sometimes , oh hell , we are sometimes just animals). I would like to hear more on what you and the other ladies her think , what are your thoughts on Sweet Sinner by Nica Noelle and the New Sensations Romance line ? i know you like real creampie type ending , i think many of us here find facials just stupid and bad endings to good scenes . What do you find to be your favorites types of scenes?

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CummingLinguist

All-Star Member

5908 Posts
11/11

Posted - Dec 20 2012 : 2:49PM

^^ You're right.
Sexual desire is complicated. People are attracted to people. Porn stars cannot be completely depersonalized, or they cease to function as sexual commodities. But that doesn't mean they're no longer being objectified, it means that fans are lusting after a body and a person.
Going back to the original post: Isn't it possible that some fans get off on seeing a woman pushed to her limits sexually? If so, might not some fans actually WANT to see women do things that they aren't (at least initially) comfortable with?
Some women enjoy exploring their limits, and porn provides an opportunity to do so in a safe environment. But others are in it mainly for the money, the attention, or because they can't stand working 9 to 5. Nobody ever hassled Sasha Grey, Annette Schwarz, or Bobbi Starr about when they were going to do something freaky on camera.
There are a lot more women in porn who want to have their limits respected than who want to use porn to explore their limits. This creates a real conflict with those fans who want to see women push their limits.
^
It's interesting to see how similar our thoughts were, as we were writing at the same time.
I also hate facials, but I fear that the reason they are so common has less to do with anybody's beliefs about what fans want as the fact that these guys are working a lot, and they simply need to jerk off for a long time before they can come. What's a woman to do during while the stud's jerk off if not sit on their knees waiting for the money shot?
Edited to add"^. I guess I took too long to compose my thoughts.
Edited by - cumminglinguist on 12/20/2012 2:56:32 PM

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Hardware

All-Star Member

Your other left
14594 Posts
3/02

Posted - Dec 20 2012 : 2:54PM

Which is different from sexual pursuit in the real world?

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CummingLinguist

All-Star Member

5908 Posts
11/11

Posted - Dec 20 2012 : 2:58PM

^ No. But the commodification of sex is unique to porn and prostitution.
Commodification involves some degree of objectification. A big mac is an object; a homegrown tomato is not to the same degree.

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Hardware

All-Star Member

Your other left
14594 Posts
3/02

Posted - Dec 20 2012 : 3:03PM

Oh, I don't know about that. What is a gold digger doing, if not using sexual allure as a barter item?

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CummingLinguist

All-Star Member

5908 Posts
11/11

Posted - Dec 20 2012 : 3:33PM

^ No doubt there are shades of grey in all human activities. But by "commodity" I mean "an good or service that enters into the capitalist marketplace."
No doubt there are all kinds of quid pro quos, forms of exploitation, and efforts by people to sell themselves in all human interactions.
But I think something is different (at least in degree if not in essence) when someone enters the commercial marketplace where goods and services are exchanged for currency.
When a customer thinks, "Do I want to pay $5 to watch this woman have vaginal sex, or would I rather watch this other woman have a seven-man double anal gangbang?" or "Do I want to pay $200 to have sex with this woman, or would I rather spend $100 to have sex with that other woman?" it may not be 100% completely the opposite of asking, "Do I want to give up the opportunity to explore relationships with other women, so I can have a more intimate relationship with this woman?", but I think most people can see the difference. The first two involve objectification in a way that the third one doesn't.
The gold-digger sits in a grey area, but the existence of shades of grey doesn't mean that some greys are so dark as to be functionally black while others are so light as to be functionally white.
You may disagree, but I'm not terribly interested in exploring the subtleties of what qualifies as "objectification" or "commodification." I think the two concepts are related, but not identical. Not all objects are commodities, but I suspect that commodification involves some degree of objectification.

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Draxxx
Senior Member

3831 Posts
2/07

Posted - Dec 20 2012 : 8:37PM

I think fans are very much into facials if this site is any indication of what fans like. Okay, I know this site consists of "super fans" but the fact that there's a negative term for girls who don't do facials (cum dodger) says that there's a lot of fans who prefer facials. As for me it doesn't matter and before I started visiting this site I never really paid attention to who does or doesn't and had no idea there was a name for girls that don't do facials.
I tend to think the facial is another manner of objectifying women to a certain degree. Not that it's in the same league as some of the other harsher stuff and it's become a staple of porn but the person who originally came up with the practice didn't do it for the woman's pleasure or because they thought it was a nice thing to do. Of course, over time a simple facial wasn't enough and someone thought to take it a step further and purposely aim for the eyes.
But in my opinion any objectification is okay as long as the people performing are okay with it and that the people watching remember/realize/respect that the performers doing this are actual people and it's performance. That objectifaction should stop when the performance ends. Even if a pornstar is up for anything for a performance doesn't mean fans get a free pass to treat them or think of them as an object when they aren't performing.
Edited by - draxxx on 12/20/2012 8:38:31 PM

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CummingLinguist

All-Star Member

5908 Posts
11/11

Posted - Dec 21 2012 : 5:38AM

^ You're probably right.
I started watching porn back in the day. Most scenes finished with the guy pulling out just before dumping his load either on the girl's belly or back, like a teenager who hadn't gotten a proper education in birth control.
Today's studs are doing so many scenes that few of them could manage to cum because of sheer passion. So I think the quantity of porn that is made using a relatively small talent pool also influences changes in fashion.
As for whether facials are degrading: I can simply say that I don't like them, and I wouldn't want to receive one. If a woman feels degraded while receiving one, or a viewer is getting off on the fantasy of degradation, then for those people, it's degrading, but I would shy away from making a blanket judgement.

[Link]

jakejd4949
Senior Member

2938 Posts
8/06

Posted - Dec 21 2012 : 9:05AM

I'm not sure that facials are considered degrading these days , they are so common place. A bit de-personalizing , probably . Lets be honest , who in thier real life does facials ? I have had sex with plenty of peopke , and I want to cum in your mouth , pussy or ass . It just seema ti kill a good scene , don't understand why they show thay guy yanking for minutes while the girl lokks bored waiting for him to pop . Why don't you at least have the girl jerk the guy off , have her involved a bit .
You also make a good poiny about sex being a commodoity , example , the worlds oldest proffession . My wife watches The Real Housewives shows(ARGGGHHH!) , tell me thats not just simply a version of prostitution.

Edited by - jakejd4949 on 12/21/2012 9:08:30 AM

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Draxxx
Senior Member

3831 Posts
2/07

Posted - Dec 21 2012 : 1:27PM

While I think it's hotter to have the girl finish the guy off I don't mind that the guy usually has to do it themselves. The realities of performing porn dictate that the guys have to pop on command and that having sex so often make it harder for some performers to have the finish them off rather than being able to concentrate and get the job done themselves. The only problem I have with the guy finishing himself off is that some directors show it going on for too long and it just looks odd after a certain length of time. I can totally understand if a guy has trouble wrapping things up and even if it takes an hour that's okay with me but I don't need to see him struggling for more than a few seconds.

[Link]

scenic
Member

46 Posts
12/12

Posted - Dec 23 2012 : 12:40AM

I haven't checked in for a while, but having read the thread I'm really pleased to see so many intelligent points raised (even if I don't agree with some of them!)
In terms of facials, I think they're an absolute result of the commercialization of porn. As a woman, do I want to see a guy blowing a load over a 'willing' woman's face. Not so much. What I like to see is a guy properly cumming inside a woman, with all the associated actions and noises, because that's what I experience when I have sex - it's the thing that makes me cum when it's real life and it's the thing that gets me off when I watch porn. Sadly it seems to be the preserve of a very few companies who accompany it with soft lighting and the usual 'for woman romantic' stuff that does nothing for me. However, I understand that porn isn't generally made for women, so we have to put up with getting to a certain point and then the guy whips it out, the woman has to move in an instant - gets in in the mouth, on the face, etc.
So, another genuine question - what is it about facials that makes them so popular? Porn history says it's about being able to show something at the end of a long fuck that signified the end of a scene, some women say it's about power (and to be honest I'm not entirely unmoved by that argument). Do you love facials? Do you accept them just because they're standard? Would you prefer to see something else?

[Link]

JB_X
Deactivated User

addled
1500 Posts
10/12

Posted - Dec 23 2012 : 2:56AM

I know I'm late to this thread, but your point here resonates with me big time. This is the single most aggravating thing about trying to sift through any of the threads supposedly dedicated to a performer. The same handful of people don't seem interested in discussing the girl's work as much as how she needs to do a specific act. In the threads dedicated to specific niches elsewhere on the forum, I don't have a problem with it. But every thread I performer thread I attempt to read is littered with posts like this.

[Link]

scenic
Member

46 Posts
12/12

Posted - Dec 23 2012 : 4:13AM

To be honest I'm really surprised how many people this has resonated with! It renews my faith in guys who consume porn!

[Link]

Draxxx
Senior Member

3831 Posts
2/07

Posted - Dec 23 2012 : 9:10PM

scenic wrote:
In terms of facials, I think they're an absolute result of the commercialization of porn. As a woman, do I want to see a guy blowing a load over a 'willing' woman's face. Not so much. What I like to see is a guy properly cumming inside a woman, with all the associated actions and noises, because that's what I experience when I have sex - it's the thing that makes me cum when it's real life and it's the thing that gets me off when I watch porn. Sadly it seems to be the preserve of a very few companies who accompany it with soft lighting and the usual 'for woman romantic' stuff that does nothing for me. However, I understand that porn isn't generally made for women, so we have to put up with getting to a certain point and then the guy whips it out, the woman has to move in an instant - gets in in the mouth, on the face, etc.
Click to expand

I don't think you're ever going to see guys cumming inside women without seeing the cum. I think the first and foremost reason is that since the beginning of porn porn makers have stated that viewers want/need to see the guy cum to believe the sex is real. I know that sounds strange but I've heard it many times from different people. So if a guy does cum inside the girl will force it out to show the cum (creampie). I kinda get that on a certain level because we've been conditioned to mark the cum shot as the end of the sex. It would seem kinda odd to me if the guy just made the noises and came in or claim to have cum inside the woman without seeing the evidence. the first thing that would go through my mind is "He didn't really cum, he's just had enough and is calling it quits...". I know it's silly but it it would just seem odd.

I don't really care one way or the other. The only time it bothers me is if the girl doesn't seem to want to do it or they spend to much time on the guy just standing there trying to climax. Some girls seem to not mind and others seem to like it. I guess it's part of the job to them. Not only do most guys like to see it but the more cum the better apparently. You always see comments about if a guy doesn't produce a large enough load or how people talk about how many black performers don't shot enough of a load. The ultimate of this taken to the extreme is Bukakae(sp)where people get off on the girl being covered. I don't like the silly "gimmick" stuff like the guy cumming in a cup/bowl for the girl to drink or two girls trying to pass it back and forth. But the nature of the biz is they hav to keep coming up with new things to keep the audience interested so I get why they do some of the stuff they do.
Facials are a porn thing and I'm sure the act has implications but most things in porn do too. The fact that porn is mostly made for men by men dictates that some of it will turn off women. It's the same in other mediums made for men by men. At some point women will just have to accept some of this stuff if they are fans of porn and don't want or like the porn made with them in mind. Not what some people want to hear but the fact is that some things are made for men, some for women, and some for children. Sometimes to appeal to that audience the most you have to include things that may turn off a certain segment of the overall audience. You can't (or shouldn't) waterdown all entertainment to try and please everyone. Not to say you're asking for that to happen but unfortunately for you I think it's something you're stuck with.

Click to expand

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RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Enjoy!
8175 Posts
3/06

Posted - Dec 24 2012 : 12:49AM

I like facials but I like oral cumshots much better. I do think for many men, it's about power and dominance and I don't think there's a thing wrong with that. Problems only arise (in my opinion) when actresses agree to do it even though they absolutely hate it. I personally don't really want to see that. It's kind of cute if she gags on cum or something but she's still pretty much OK with it (Believe it or not I have seen this more than a few times). If it's obvious that she hates his guts for cumming in her mouth, it pretty much ruins the cumshot. I really don't want to see women doing things they hate.
Unfortunately (and I know this isn't very PC of me to say) I think this is sometimes the girl's fault. The director probably does ask if she's OK with it before the scene and some girls probably lie and say they are because they are living exclusively on the funds generated by their porn work and they need the next payday yesterday. As much as I hate to say it, girls who do this have no one else to blame because it's very simple logic. If porn is your only job and you spend the money fast, you aren't going to have any choice but to agree to just about everything they want you to do.
So often, girls end up on their knees scowling and making all kinds of horrible faces and making it obvious that they're miserable and the people who feel sorry for them blame the people who like facials and/or oral cumshots. How are we supposed to defend ourselves when these types of people always side with women regardless of the circumstances? We ask for the content but we don't all get off on yuck faces.

Edited by - randomprecision on 12/24/2012 2:51:56 AM

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CummingLinguist

All-Star Member

5908 Posts
11/11

Posted - Dec 24 2012 : 5:46AM

Draxxx wrote:
I don't think you're ever going to see guys cumming inside women without seeing the cum. I think the first and foremost reason is that since the beginning of porn porn makers have stated that viewers want/need to see the guy cum to believe the sex is real. I know that sounds strange but I've heard it many times from different people. So if a guy does cum inside the girl will force it out to show the cum (creampie). I kinda get that on a certain level because we've been conditioned to mark the cum shot as the end of the sex. It would seem kinda odd to me if the guy just made the noises and came in or claim to have cum inside the woman without seeing the evidence. the first thing that would go through my mind is "He didn't really cum, he's just had enough and is calling it quits...". I know it's silly but it it would just seem odd.
Click to expand

To me the main attraction of pornography over other forms of erotic entertainment is that the sex is real, so I don't want to see fake orgasms from the guys, and frankly, if they could get away with faking, they would. (I also like to see real female orgasms. One of the only websites I ever subscribed to was Abbywinters, and this was largely because of the real female orgasms.)
To me the best cum shots are a compromise between letting the viewer see that it's real and letting the passion explode. The one at 1:25 mark in this trailer gives some idea.

[Link]

scenic
Member

46 Posts
12/12

Posted - Jan 8 2013 : 2:52AM

I agree.
For me, this is one of the hottest guys fucking I've ever seen...I have no idea who he is, but bloody hell, he's good!
Mod edit: Please don't post stolen content links here they're far from welcome. Many of our members produce and sell porn, we don't promote those sites who harm legitimate companies who also happen to sponsor this site. Please read the linked thread below to understand our position on tube sites.

Link

Edited by - Jonny Jay on 1/8/2013 10:04:39 AM

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CummingLinguist

All-Star Member

5908 Posts
11/11

Posted - Jan 8 2013 : 8:10AM

Post cropped, the description leads posters to view tube sites
Enjoying something and consenting to it are two different things. The law recognizes that certain people, for instance children, aren't capable of giving legal consent to have sex, and a contract signed by an imbecile would never hold up in court.
Obviously porn stars consent to do things they don't enjoy to do the money. Sometimes we might find amateur porn where the performers are clearly enjoying themselves, but the issue of consent is blurry because of their impaired state of mind.
I fully understand that kids would be having a lot less sex in college if it weren't for alcohol, and I'm not saying that every drunken coupling that takes place in a college door is effectively rape, but there's a difference between waking up the next morning, and thinking "Oh shit, I slept with this person!" and waking up the next morning and thinking, "Oh shit my parents might see this."
Maybe this girl woke up, thinking, "Wow, that was incredible." In which case, I don't have a problem. But I'll admit my enjoyment of the video (which was physical) was tinged by a hint of guilt, because I wasn't 100% sure that she would have been comfortable doing this if she weren't impaired.
Sorry for the rambling note.
How do people feel about porn where the performers are clearly enjoying themselves, but may be drunk or stoned, and therefore not fully able to consent?
Edited to bold main points.
Edited by - cumminglinguist on 1/8/2013 8:32:24 AM
Edited by - Jonny Jay on 1/8/2013 10:09:37 AM

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jakejd4949
Senior Member

2938 Posts
8/06

Posted - Jan 8 2013 : 9:33AM

I absolutely agree with you , facials are fairly silly , ruin the ending to a good scene with a girl on her knees pretending to be super excited(think , "is he gonna pop so I can go get something to eat already") while dude jacks himself for eternity. There was a series , HJ's Oral Creampie that showed how it can be done . X-Art also hade mostly good ending . Either finish the guy off orally ,(yes , you can show us the evidence) , with you hand or a creampie . Body shots can be ok if the girl strokes him as he's cumming , still better than a facial . A great example , and one of my all time favorite scenes , Addison Heart , cutie bubbly who only did a few scenes , in Throated 26 was blowing him , and he came in her mouth as she squeeled , than laughed as she said that she had never done that before . Facials do nothing for me , a woman loving stroking a mans cock or taking him in her mouth as he comes is much more intimate and sexy .
scenic wrote:
I haven't checked in for a while, but having read the thread I'm really pleased to see so many intelligent points raised (even if I don't agree with some of them!)
In terms of facials, I think they're an absolute result of the commercialization of porn. As a woman, do I want to see a guy blowing a load over a 'willing' woman's face. Not so much. What I like to see is a guy properly cumming inside a woman, with all the associated actions and noises, because that's what I experience when I have sex - it's the thing that makes me cum when it's real life and it's the thing that gets me off when I watch porn. Sadly it seems to be the preserve of a very few companies who accompany it with soft lighting and the usual 'for woman romantic' stuff that does nothing for me. However, I understand that porn isn't generally made for women, so we have to put up with getting to a certain point and then the guy whips it out, the woman has to move in an instant - gets in in the mouth, on the face, etc.
So, another genuine question - what is it about facials that makes them so popular? Porn history says it's about being able to show something at the end of a long fuck that signified the end of a scene, some women say it's about power (and to be honest I'm not entirely unmoved by that argument). Do you love facials? Do you accept them just because they're standard? Would you prefer to see something else?

[/quote]

[Link]

CummingLinguist

All-Star Member

5908 Posts
11/11

Posted - Jan 8 2013 : 9:37PM

^^ & ^^^
For people who might not understand my post, Scenic pointed to a video on a tube site, I anticipated that the link would get pulled, and basically said how to google it, so that others could know exactly what we were talking about. I apologize for trying to skirt the spirit of the rules.
I hope readers can follow the discussion by simply knowing that the chick very hot, very wasted (but nowhere near passing out drunk), and very into it.

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