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Justin Long

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Motown 1976
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5/10
Posted - May 1 2010 : 6:13PM
Justin Long Says- “I will No Longer be doing any sort of Interracial Porn”
OP/ED by Justin Long
So, as I told you I would, here is the mail. For a long time I have been concerned, stressed, and pissed off to say the least, about the state of racial relations in the adult industry. I too have been guilty to some point as of late by conversing with female stars that don’t do IR. In hind site this was bad, and foolhardy. I am far from a racist having been born to a black father, and a white mother. My father was never around (in fact I have only met him four times in my life and haven’t spoken with, or seen him in over 20 years), and thus I was raised by my white mother and my half sister who is also mixed black and white. Growing up in Oregon partially I have experienced my share of racism. However, until entering the adult industry, I had never experienced it on such a massive level, and had to endure it on a day-to-day basis. With growing up with my mother’s side of the family only I have always been around white people. Growing up however, I have had black influences, as my aunt and mother only dated black men, and visiting and eventually living with my aunt who was the first white woman to ever live in the notorious projects of Seaside, CA.
Enough about my life LOL. So, today I have canceled what work I had in LA and informed my agents that effective immediately, I will no longer be doing any sort of IR porn. This decision was not easy. I am NOT racist as I have stated and obviously could not be with a white mother and family. I will suffer from this decision no doubt, but I feel the mental anguish will be less of a burden then the financial. I feel horrible thinking that this is the only way for people to know exactly how I feel, and more over the only way for me to yell out if you will "what the fuck, this is bullshit". Some will say "well you are being racist yourself in this decision". I would have to agree. It is wrong for anyone to say they won’t work with someone because of skin color or nationality. However, what is a black star to do if he/she is fed up with the racial profiling he/she has to endure everyday in this industry? This is not just about getting between contract stars legs. This is about the fact that every solid thing that a black star is not allotted to earn in the adult industry can be led back to three simple things; agents telling girls "no interracial" or convincing them not to do IR, big companies refusing to shoot a fair percentage of content involving black talent, and girl being given the choice of whether they want to choose co-talent solely on the basis of skin color, or nationality.
This whole situation saddens me to no end. I am pissed off that I served in the military, to protect the freedoms of the same people that would discriminate. I am pissed off that I served in the military, and this is what my country does for me i.e.; nothing – continues to allow discrimination in my work place. So, the normal way this goes down is a girls statement " I don’t do IR I’m sorry, it’s nothing personal". How the fuck could it NOT be personal when a girl tells you that she will NOT work with you because of the color of your skin? Even worse it’s not the color of your skin obviously, because these same girls work with European and Latin darker skinned male stars that are not labeled black. The same contract and non-contract stars that say they don’t do IR are still working with non-white performers. To make it worse a % of them are trying or are getting fucked off screen by black males either talent or civilian. So, is IR just a term cause it sure in the hell doesn’t mean anyone not of that girl’s nationality. For example if an Asian girl doesn’t do IR, it should mean she only works with Asian male stars right? Well that’s not the case, it means she will work with anyone that is not Labeled Black by the adult industry. Some girls say I don’t like the movies that they put me in when I do IR so I don’t do it. Guess what? We black people don’t like the movies that makes us look like we just degrade white girls either. Do you realize that black male stars staple often times is shooting BBW movies (nothing wrong with BBW I adore a lot of them, and they rarely had attitude which is so common among female stars) but when was the last time you saw a top white or non-black male star have to staple his income with BBW shoots? I’m a skinny brotha. Again nothing wrong with BBW women (and I mean that), I have gone out with some in my personal life, because looks and a body aren’t everything, but I’m just trying to show the very un-even contrast in the industry.
Is being Black a target? Is it the kiss of death in the industry? A couple male performers I know are black, but very light skinned, and seem to work with these girls on a regular basis as they have not been LABELED black . Non-IR girls have no issues shooting with them, so you would think maybe it’s just the color of the skin, but then you get to darker European, Asian and Latino male talent and all of a sudden brown skin has no bearing. So, does "it’s not personal" continue to fly as a real statement? Absolutely not. Girls and agents like to say that saving IR extends the life of a girl’s career. I have very serious doubts about that and will use a star I have worked with many times as an example. This girl has shot IR from day one in the industry (as far as I am aware) very early in her career I had shot with her more then any male in the industry (white , black or other), now she is arguably the biggest contract star in the world. So tell me exactly how did IR extend or hurt her career. The fact is, that non-IR girls use black male talent as stepping stones, and that is morally bankrupt in thought and action. Girls are permitted to do IR and then not do IR and then start to do it again when there work slows. The sad part is Black male talent are willing to shoot with these girls, and basically telling them it’s ok to exhibit this moral lacking behavior, and it’s alright to disrupt our income. Black males are telling these girls that we are OK with the scraps that they are throwing our way.
The fact is, is every girl that refuses to do IR is saying (regardless if they speak the words) I’m doing what’s best for me and I don’t care what happens to you (Mr. Black male talent). Every girl that refuses or dips in and out of doing IR affects every black male star’s annual income. If contract stars did IR, your damn right I and others would have more scenes, because we have directors that would kill for those scenes. It is the same with all non-IR shooting females. Black males have no problem if the girls are selective in their choosing of who they shoot with and who they won’t shoot with. That’s fine, but to just say "sorry your black " hello wake the fuck up. It’s offensive, and then to follow it up with "it’s nothing personal" that just makes us even more angry because there is no way to take it but personal. The girl will take 10 cocks in a day, ass, pussy, and mouth and multiple cocks at a time as long as none of them are black? Come on, we are black, not stupid.
So people ask "why do you even care" here are just a few answers; for awards they look at the top girls movies, so if blacks can’t work with the top girls then how do WE get looked at or even come close to getting awards. I would sure like to fly to Jamaica or Hawaii to shoot a feature. No Go. This is just a couple of trickle down effects, and it doesn’t even scratch the surface. Does any one think it weird that at AVN their are 15 males nominated for best male performer and every year their are never more than three black males in that category, and 95% of the time it’s won by a white or I’ll say non-black performer that is hooked-up with the Vivids and Wickeds and VCA’s of the industry? However, even more funny is if you look at the nominees for most unsung male performer @ AVN, their are usually around 8 or 9 guy’s nominated and the list is predominately black male performers. How about equality? It’s just an Idea. How many non-black males are under contract right now? How many black males are under contract right now? How many white females are under contract right now? Now how many black females are under contract right now? Starting to get the picture. Black people are starving and getting real jobs and leaving the industry cause they can’t pay their bills, but their counter parts are like nothing major has happened because half are under contract with guaranteed money and the other half are working because the economy put mostly smaller companies out of biz not the big ones. So, who do you think shot the majority of IR? Smaller companies. Follow twitter, Sure some is a lie but you will see people post "I’m working" "I’m on set". Start keeping track and tell me what you see over a week and then lets chat.
This is trickle down economics people. Top white girls refuse to work with black males. Top companies refuse to shoot black males. Top companies, and girls often could give a flying fuck about black females. How is it that black females on average make less, and work less then white females? How is it that often even if a Wicked or VCA or Digital Playground shoots a feature and has a black talent in it, its like one black talent out of a cast of like 7 or more. Are they really saying that, that is how the world is normally ? Or is this their own private little white world? Last time I checked black pirates were common in the 1700’s, also last time I checked blacks were a strong majority in the military, so how are war movies going to have one black guy out of an entire military unit? For too long the industry has (in large part) just used black people as tokens. Unfortunately for the blacks and fortunate for the world, black people in this business are too damned stupid to stand together and say enough is enough. Too many people looking out for themselves, and worrying about what the company owners will say. Here’s a clue, big companies don’t give a fuck about black talent. Behind closed doors to many in the industry we are "NIGGERS". That’s fact, that’s the way of the world is.
They like our music, and love our food, and women but despise us, and will never look at us as equals, and this is the same conclusion drawn from some blacks in the industry when told "I’m sorry I don’t do IR, nothing personal though". Funny, a friend (white female star) just texted me back after I canceled our content shoot (told her I was no longer doing IR) her response was "did I do something wrong?" Guess it goes to show we all have an issue being told your money is gonna get fucked up because of the color of your skin, huh? I’m tired, I don’t want to yell, I don’t want to have a target on my back, and I don’t want to lose work or have to cause waves, but I also don’t want to feel like some fucking leper at work either. I would rather be judged as an individual when it comes to talent selection. Does color have to come in sometimes? Yes of course, you can’t have a black man play George Washington anymore then you could have a white woman play Whoopi Goldberg. Do you have any idea what it feels like to go to work and have 60% of your co-workers say "sorry won’t work with you, you’re black". Trust me it’s a shitty feeling, and then to have your advancement opportunities capped because you can’t work with some of that 60%. Shit now you’ll just get mad. My actions and reactions are in direct correlation with the actions and inflammatory speech and actions that are being taken and enacted against people of my color.
The racism and discrimination needs to stop. Equality has been earned.
Justin Long
Adult Film Star
P0ser
Member

31 Posts
7/08
Posted - May 1 2010 : 6:31PM
I see some good points.
Edited by - P0ser on 5/1/2010 6:31:47 PM
HeyNow All-Star Supporter
Oblivious

Gold Star Hey!
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Posted - May 1 2010 : 6:48PM
Motown 1976
Deactivated User

22 Posts
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Posted - May 1 2010 : 9:44PM
Every single point Justin made were good and everything mentioned is the situation which every Black person, male and female in the industry are still going through even in 2010.
It's very sad and ironic that for a very so-called liberal industry, racism is still allowed to flourish unabated.
ILVBUTT
Member

Nice & Juicy!
925 Posts
9/09
Posted - May 1 2010 : 9:50PM
Wasn't this thread previously locked?
(Methinks someone be trollin'....)
Edited by - ilvbutt on 5/2/2010 3:21:07 AM
 
P0ser
Member

31 Posts
7/08
Posted - May 2 2010 : 5:41AM
Don't get me wrong, I'm with JUstin on this one. I'm just waiting for the folks to come in and try to refute what JUSTIN said .
Jonny Jay All-Star Supporter
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Posted - May 2 2010 : 6:46AM
Got a feeling this thread may get messy.
Joey Starr
Senior Member

Still wanking after all these years.
8082 Posts
10/00
Posted - May 2 2010 : 6:51AM
So he's only doing black girls now?
I think he better get a second and a third job...
P0ser
Member

31 Posts
7/08
Posted - May 2 2010 : 7:32AM
Well Justin got a response:
The Colors Of Men- Is the Industry Racist?
Colors Of Men
By The Colonel
The latest episode of 24, America’s response to James Bond, ends with two parallel scenes: In one scene, CTU operative Dana Walsh is being interrogated and tortured under direct order of the president of The United States while in the parallel scene, the president is addressing and lecturing her international colleagues on human rights and global peace issues. What a bold and precise depiction of hypocrisy. Come to think of it, what’s more interesting is the fact that Fox is broadcasting 24. Fox: Right winger’s watchtower, The Elite’s propaganda machine and home of the likes of Bill O’Reilly, Sean Hannity and Glenn Beck; and yet the place where for the past two decades the most controversial, politically incorrect and uncompromising shows have been broadcasted, from The X-Files to 24, Family Guy, etc. If you ask why, the answer is because these shows sell quite well. They’re popular and attract tons of viewers and therefore tons of money made off of commercials, DVD and merchandise sales, etc. It’s business the American way, plain and simple. Take it or leave it.
In fact the same culture of profit exists not only in corporate media, but in every aspect and corner of American society, porn valley included. For too long, the issue of race in the adult industry has sparked much controversy, debate and conflict: Is there racial discrimination in the adult industry? Are the owners of big porn companies racists? Why some girls refuse to perform in interracial scenes? And so on and so on. Everybody from the industry workers to fans has an opinion, and some will go to extreme lengths to debate, defend and protect their opinion. Case in point, veteran performer Justin Long has recently announced in response to the discriminating, racist adult industry, he has decided to not perform in interracial scenes. I know Justin, I’ve hired him a number of times, and I can tell you he’s one of the good guys. He’s kind and polite, shows up on time and delivers a solid performance. I like him and respect his opinion, although I have my reasons to disagree with him on this issue. Allow me to explain:
I have to make one thing clear before I get to the main subject: We refer to the business of making pornographic movies as ‘the adult industry’ only for lack of a better word. There is no such thing as the adult industry, neither literary nor figuratively. What we have are a number of independent producers who finance their movies out of their pocket and sell them in a competitive, dog eat dog, over saturated market. These people have no such thing as a union, they don’t gather for annual meetings, and above all, they don’t share any common interests. They’re independent business owners, each with their specific audiences and unique ways of financing and distributing their product and profiting from it. The term ‘Industry’ doesn’t exactly apply to this particular business. Therefore, you can’t choose some of these independent business owners and draw a conclusion based on actions and decisions of those individuals and apply your conclusion to all of those who are in the business of making pornographic movies. Such conclusion and reasoning is inaccurate, wrong and most of all unfair.
Now to the main subject: Nobody makes porn to enlighten his audiences, get socio-political messages across or motivate people spiritually. Producing pornographic movies is a business, and like any other business, its first and foremost priority is making money. Therefore, the general rule which applies to any other business applies to porn as well, and that is the rule of demand and supply. In other words, every porn company has their specific audiences who demand and expect specific types of movies: The majority of gonzo audiences are young to middle age male viewers from various races and socio-economic classes that pay to watch wall to wall dirty, nasty fuck scenes. The last thing to cross this audience’s mind is the race. They even appreciate and enjoy interracial scenes, and that’s why many gonzo producers make interracial series and hire black performers. On the contrary, the majority of feature porn audiences are middle age to older white, relatively wealthy couples. Regardless of their socio-political affiliations and whether they’re conservatives or liberals, many of them have one thing in common: They’re stuck somewhere in the 19th century, and although they may not tell you in your face, but the idea of a black man making love with a white woman aggravates and disgusts them. They will never pay to watch that. Therefore, you don’t see too many interracial themes and scenes and black performers in feature porn movies. Even if a feature porn happens to be about a black celebrity (i.e. Tiger Woods) producers will design the scenario in a way that no interracial scene occurs between their contract starlet and the black man. I’ll give you an example: I was talking to a female performer a while ago. She’s a well known European girl who has performed in hundreds of movies. She said when she first came to America in 2004 and got into the adult industry, her agent told her there’s good money to make in performing interracial scenes. After a few months and performing in a few interracial scenes, she went to a meeting with a producer of one of the big companies to discuss signing an exclusive contract. The producer told her they won’t be able to sign her, because in producer’s own words: ‘You’ve been in some interracial scenes, and our audiences don’t like that.’
You may ask so is it all about the business and there are no racial motives involved in the adult industry? The answer is yes and no. When you look at the issue objectively, you realize what porn companies provide is what their audiences require; demand and supply, the most basic and common rule of business. In that regard, when a gonzo producer makes interracial series, it doesn’t necessarily mean he prefers one race over another. Consequently, when a feature porn producer avoids interracial themes and scenes and hires less black performers, it doesn’t necessarily mean he’s a discriminating racist. Each one has their own audiences and each one caters to that audiences’ demand. However, it’s evident that some individuals who work at the adult industry as producers, performers, agents, etc. have personal negative opinions towards some racial groups, and they certainly fall into the racist category to a more a less degree; but those individuals are in minority and do not represent the entire adult industry. Therefore, using examples of actions and decisions of a small portion of the adult industry workers to conclude that adult is a discriminating, racist industry is inaccurate, wrong and most of all unfair.
Going back to Justin Long and his act of boycotting what he views as the discriminating, racist adult industry, I know he has good intentions, but this is not going to change anything. For every man or woman, white, black, Latino, etc. who boycotts the adult industry or refuses to perform in certain scenes for any reason whatsoever, there are ten more to take their place. I believe what Justin should do instead is to refuse to perform in derogatory scenes, interracial or otherwise, scenes that depict black men as stereotypical gangsters and punks and thugs. That’s the worst type of degradation, and that’s self inflicted. I made a similar decision when I was a performer, working for other producers. I come from a Jewish/Catholic family, and although I’m not a firm believer or a religious person, but I decided I will never participate in anything that depicts a derogatory, insulting or stereotypical image of my people. During the 1980’s, I was offered to play German Nazis in two movies. The pay was good, I liked the girls and knew the producers and had worked for them before; but I turned down the parts, and producers understood and respected my decision. We all have our choices. Ultimately, every man should and would be judged based on his personal character and particular actions. Colors of men don’t matter.
Looks like justin commented on this and IN STYLE
http://www.lukeisback.com/?p=11962
Edited by - P0ser on 5/2/2010 7:49:52 AM
Edited by - P0ser on 5/2/2010 7:56:42 AM
DeadManWalking
Member

122 Posts
1/10
Posted - May 2 2010 : 8:23AM
How is he gonna pay the bills?
Draxxx
Senior Member

3831 Posts
2/07
Posted - May 2 2010 : 11:20AM
I can see where this could be very frustrating and annoying for Justin and can't blame him forhis anger but I have to agree for the most part with The Colonel. Much of the decisions made are business related. "Features" cater to a mostly different audience who want to see different things from their porn. Features are overall just far more conservative all around. That's why contract girls all have a certain look and the sex is usually "vanilla" with none of the extreme stuff you see in Gonzo. I personally look at Features as a seperate catagory of porn just as I see bondage or all lesbian movies.
I disagree with the companies/directors of features who think their audience cares if a girl has done IR before becoming a contract girl. I'm sure there are some who care and make the effort to find out but I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of them don't care what they did before as long as it doesn't happen in the movies they watch. Bree Olsen, Lanny Barbie and a few others did IR before becoming contract girls and seem to do just fine.
Does Justin Long have a company or direct a line of movies like Lex, Justin Slayer or Bryon Pumper? If he did I'm sure he'd have a slightly different outlook. It's one thing to decide to make a stand and it only affects yourself but when you own a company or have others working for you, you realize that your stance isn't changing anything and it's affecting your income and the income of others. I know it's probably a personal thing for Justin and he has the right to make that decision but ultimately his decision probably won't change anything.
I know some people on this board are obssessed with this type of stuff but I've never seen it as anywhere near the problem some tend to make it out to be. I can understand the performers caring about it a lot but not the fans so much. I'm black and like IR porn. In my mind there's plenty of it and more than I'll ever get around to seeing. While some people can rattle off the percentages of girls who don't do IR, I've never understood why anyone would care that much. Are the 65% (or whatever the % is) of girls who don't all girls they're dying to see do it?
For me about 85% of the girls I like do it. The majority of the top girls in the biz (who do Gonzo) seem to do it and the top Gonzo studios all have IR scenes or do IR themed movies. If Jessica Drake, Stormy Daniels, Kayden Kross and most of the top feature girls starting doing IR tomorrow I still wouldn't have any desire to watch their stuff.
The gonzo girls that don't do IR...it's their choice no matter how ridiculous their reasoning is...What ya gonna do? It's their career and if they feel they don't have to or need to do it they won't if they don't have to. Plain and simple.
I feel for Justin but he should look at this as a business and do what makes him the most money and helps his career first. That's what everyone else is doing. It may be frustarting but like most jobs and businesses there are things you don't agree with or like and if you can't change them or get into another career you just have to suck it up and do what you have to do. Justin in the end is just depriving his IR fans and the girls who liked working with him and his salarly. The people wouldn't work with him and not giving him work before really aren't going to care.

Zaer
Deactivated User

249 Posts
10/07
Posted - May 2 2010 : 12:00PM
The same way anyone else in the industry would.
And it's good to see someone taking a stand against the racism in the industry. So few care enough to do so.
a9nostic
Senior Member

1056 Posts
8/08
Posted - May 2 2010 : 2:19PM
I don't remember, but I think Justin said that he wasn't trying to change anything, the decision he made was a personal one for the benefit of his own soul. It reminds me of when people wonder why Palestinians throw mere rocks at Israeli armored vehicles when they know it's not going to do anything except invite a disproportionate response. I think the answer is that "When all you've got is rocks, you throw rocks" So Justin is doing the only thing that he can to mark injustice.
As for the Colonel, I can image everything he said being 100% correct. But I think the thing that he perhaps misses is that the "cold, dispassionate economic forces" explanation is totally unsatisfying to someone who is being told that no matter what you do, no matter how hard you try, there is a strict limit on your worth as a person that was imparted on you the day you were born with African-American features. The fact that Justin *is* smart, polite, and "one of the good guys" just serves to emphasize that no one cares about him as a person, nor his performance. He's black... and that dominates his possibilities in life. I don't think anyone who has ever been discriminated against, or told indirectly that he's just not worth as much as other people, would accept the Colonel's explanation. It just hurts too deeply to say "OK, I understand, it's just about money".
I think that's also the reason why people who have never felt discrimination can't understand why the IR topics always get out of hand. It's because it hurts people deep down.
a9nostic
Senior Member

1056 Posts
8/08
Posted - May 2 2010 : 2:29PM
I do believe that the Colonel is factually correct, and so I too am making a decision.
I am not going to patronize directors that I haven't seen hire Justin Long. I cannot ignore a courageous brother making a difficult stand. If that means enjoying all-black porn for the rest of my days, then I say bring on Pinky and Cherokee and Beauty and all their big-assed friends.
And I've also got my eye on Justin Slayer, Sean Michaels, Brian Pumper, and Mr. Marcus. What do you do? WHAT DO YOU DO?!
ntfighter
Member

645 Posts
7/07
Posted - May 2 2010 : 4:00PM
It does my heart good to see him take a position on this issue. Its has become passe in our capitalistic society to believe there are things in life that are more important than the size of your investment portfolio or the size of your latest paycheck.
Live long and prosper Justin Long. You are a real Man. You have taken back your soul.

Edited by - ntfighter on 5/2/2010 4:02:38 PM

 
Young Herschel
Deactivated User

404 Posts
10/09
Posted - May 2 2010 : 4:20PM
Well . . . first of all . . . after carefully and thoroughly reading Justin Long's statement I have to commend him on some of the points which he highlighted about the "trickle down effects":
1) There is a class of Adult actresses who adamantly refuse to shoot sex scenes of any kind with Afro-American actors;
2) No matter how large/small that class happens to be, it cannot be ESTABLISHED that members of this class collectively have had NO influence on the economic opportunity afforded to actors of African ancestry such as Justin Long;
3) Opportunity for economic advancement is a hallmark of the American culture across all ethnicities and nationalites. Simply because an individual is born into a family of a Black parent or grandparents that person could suffer the same job discrimination as has affected Justin Long -
a. lower salaries per diem,
b. scant opportunites to work on major porn projects and,
c. as a corelative result less opportunities to distinguish himself/herself
as a perfomer and gain greater acclaim within the business, perhaps even
advance to become corporate adult entertainment executive one day at one
of the major production companies and retire from acting all together.
For some reason, while I thoroughly enjoyed watching films like "Pirates" and "Cheerleaders" along with most everyone else, I did find myself wondering why the casting for such blockbusters was so exclusive.
Would "Cheerleaders" have been any less enjoyable or critically-acclaimed if Jack Napier, Nat Turnher or Mark Anthony had been hired to join the cast? How about Lacey Duvalle or Alicia Tyler. Would Wesley Pipes make a convincing pirate (don't laugh Pipes CAN be funny when he wants to be more so than Teddy Tedeschi IMHO)?
I can't say that I;ve been the biggest fan of his work as a performer so I cannot say that I'll miss Long's work, but he does have some valid points regarding his trickle down theory/position.
Just something to think about while you are enjoying
Plus One
Deactivated User

40 Posts
4/10
Posted - May 2 2010 : 8:38PM
To a9nostic
FACT: The colonel's response 100% WRONG and FALSE. He is only providing excuses for those racist companies.
The vast majority of girls who won the AVN pornstar of the year award from the last 10 years were currently performing IR at the time of their win.
Now for the people who support the girls 'so called' right to refuse Black people.
IMAGINE if the races were reversed and YOU were the male pornstars and every time you came to work, 60% of your prospective co-workers tells you "Sorry, I can't work with you, you're White"..How would you feel?? Sick to the stomach right?.
You cannot excuse the inexcusable. Racism should have no place in the workplace

Edited by - plus one on 5/14/2010 5:57:30 AM

DeadManWalking
Member

122 Posts
1/10
Posted - May 2 2010 : 8:46PM
Who is The Colonel?
Plus One
Deactivated User

40 Posts
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Posted - May 3 2010 : 7:45AM
The Colonel is the idiot who wrote the false and totally fabricated response to Justin Long's statement. It's on posers second post on this thread.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some white racists and a few non Whites who hate Blacks may try and defend the girls right to refuse working with Black people..BUT if THEY themselves were the pornstar and they went to work only to be greated with the words "Sorry, I can't work with you, you are White or Latino or Asian, all those guys would feel the same way as Justin Long feels.
Remember the words:
Another person's issue may not affect you as long as it's not happening to you BUT imagine if the shoe is on the other foot...........
Edited by - Plus One on 5/11/2010 6:20:31 AM
Edited by - plus one on 5/14/2010 6:00:22 AM
UnkwnUsr2
Member

443 Posts
2/05
Posted - May 3 2010 : 9:21AM
1. Who cares.
2. Why does it have to be a fucking novel, learn to summarize.
Plus One
Deactivated User

40 Posts
4/10
Posted - May 3 2010 : 12:32PM
1. So why the F**k are you reading it, duh!!
2. He didn't write it to please you.
AsianAnalPantyhoserGuy
Deactivated User

Ass fucking/ foot fetish/ pantyhose= insanity!
465 Posts
3/10
Posted - May 3 2010 : 10:31PM
Although this is a very well written article with strong points, I don't believe this paragraph is totally accurate. I firmly believe there is much more communication going on within the "industry" that you or I will ever hear about or that they're ever going to tell us about. Average people have no idea what esoteric symbolism is, I see it done constantly....constantly.
....and as far as Justin Long goes, I can't get an answer on whether or not he's ever put out an anal scene with a starlet. If he did not, or will not, I say good luck with the average stuff.

Edited by - AsianAnalPantyhoserGuy on 5/3/2010 10:35:30 PM

pornlaw
Member

578 Posts
10/05
Posted - May 4 2010 : 12:55PM
The one fact that no one has touched on and I even told this to Justin Long personally....
Porn is speech. Porn performers are artists. Not employees. Porn production companies are also artists and under the First Amendment speech is protected. Even racist and hateful speech is protected.
If a performer, through their performance, wants to express herself or himself by not acting outside color lines, they have the right to do so. If they want to work with only black performers, they have the right to do so.
Speech cannot be regulated in regards to discrimination or racism.
If a production company chooses to only produce white on white porn and not hire any blacks, asains, hispanics or any other race - they have the right to put out the content they want to. Its speech.
Porn isnt a job in the traditional sense. Its a performance by an artist and is protected just like any written word, mainstream movie, or political speech.
The day the government can regulate racist speech is the day your freedoms die. Even the ACLU defended the Klu Klux Klan in a speech case....and won their right to protest on MLK's Birthday.
ACLU defends the KKK
AsianAnalPantyhoserGuy
Deactivated User

Ass fucking/ foot fetish/ pantyhose= insanity!
465 Posts
3/10
Posted - May 4 2010 : 2:58PM
^pornlaw, this is enlightening. What Justin is doing is a protest, and therefore, seems to be the most logical way to deal with the matter at hand. There is no legal remedy for what he seeks to accomplish. The one thing that racist cockroaches hate, is the light of day, and the fear of a customer boycott.
By the way pornlaw, is that you in your avatar? If so, have you been in a shitload of Euro porn?
pornlaw
Member

578 Posts
10/05
Posted - May 4 2010 : 7:42PM
Thats the point though. You cannot work in an industry that was founded on the principles of free speech and the First Amendment and then declare that free speech should be regulated. Racist speech, just like pornographic speech is protected. It is axiomatic that without one you do not have the other. It is inconsistent for someone who has had a career making/performing in films that others find digusting and revolting to now complain of speech they find to be disgusting and revolting. As someone who believes in the First Amendment I must also support speech which I may not personally believe in.
And I must have a doppleganger in Euro-porn.... I have never performed but I would love to know the name of the male performer I look like !!
 
angelconcordia
Member

21 Posts
5/10
Posted - May 4 2010 : 9:07PM
well I guess its anyone opinion, its great to share and contradict with someone, a real wisdom for everyone
[mod edit: Clearly you work for/with the site you keep linking to, so you have to be upfront about it, and not just post as if you're a fan. You should include that kind of info in your profile; and not every post should provide a link to your site. Please read the fourth paragraph of our ADT forum etiquette.]
Edited by - killbillvol69 on 5/4/2010 10:51:32 PM
AsianAnalPantyhoserGuy
Deactivated User

Ass fucking/ foot fetish/ pantyhose= insanity!
465 Posts
3/10
Posted - May 4 2010 : 9:53PM
Absolutely! I am merely stating that what Justin is doing is a gesture to provoke a response which has no lawful bearing, nor should it. The move is only to increase awareness, nothing more, yet commendable. Most important, your point is well taken and a good one.
Off Topic....As far as the doppleganger's name,....the best reference I have is from "ROCCOFUNCLUB", The man I am referring to places a gorgeous woman with red sheer thigh-high stockings on his lap and begins to penetrate her in the RCA position. I remember feeling excitement because she was shoeless, and just as her feet went up on his legs, a lightning bolt struck him, and he tore her stockings off in a fit of possessed rage, and I thought to myself, "what will they think of next?" The back cover lists Remigo Zampa?...Jonny Montana?...Alain L'yle as options. Please remember that I am seeing your picture from a substantial distance.
Draxxx
Senior Member

3831 Posts
2/07
Posted - May 4 2010 : 11:21PM
But is his "boycott" really doing anything than letting people know how he feels? Which isn't a bad thing and sometimes leads to something but in this case, I don't know. The companies and directors aren't going to hear about this and suddenly feel bad and change their polices. The girls who refused to work with him aren't going suddenly have a change of heart. The unfairness he's seeing isn't going to go away and he's still going to see it go on.
On the other negative side...He'll probably be making less money. He's disappointing the white girls that liked working with him. He's disappointing the fans who liked seeing him perform with certain women and his IR stuff in particular.
I know it's something he feels is right but I don't see any up side to the whole thing. Like it's been pointed out it's a business. No one is going to change what they feel works for them just because someone doesn't like the playing field.
ntfighter
Member

645 Posts
7/07
Posted - May 4 2010 : 11:27PM
Pornlaw isn't it a legal fiction that porn is speech? just as it is legal fiction that money is speech. In any event it may be an issue of free speech from your perspective as an attorney, but as a fan its legal standing is not a priority and I don't believe racial discrimination is a free speech issue. Above we have a poster that would argue that there is no such thing as the adult industry, just a loose conglomerate of independent contractors who collective behavior over the years is coincidentally discriminatory toward one very specific group Now you frame the historic discrimination in the non-exsitence industry as a 1st amendment issue. Other defender of the status quo swear its an issue of personal choice. It appears that tolerance for discrimination is all in how it framed so that everyone can continue to think of themselves as a good people. Ya'll might be good people otherwise, but you condone racial discrimination, and on another level economic discrimination. Please convey my best regards to your very lovely and talented significant other. You lucky devil.

Edited by - ntfighter on 5/4/2010 11:33:40 PM

Zaer
Deactivated User

249 Posts
10/07
Posted - May 5 2010 : 12:14AM
Actually a number of countries in Europe (e.g., Sweden, Norway, and Switzerland along with other countries) regulate hate speech and they're known to be the most civilized and safest countries in the world, particularly compared to the USA, which doesn't have the best reputation in that regard.
So the USA would be fine if hate speech was regulated here.
As for the industry not being a job. That's contradicted by the reality of its workers receiving wages, being bound by regulations and agents needing to be licensed.
Furthermore, in hiring practices a production company would have to follow employment laws that bar discrimination based on gender, race, religion, or other factors, but performers can freely discriminate with regard to who they work with.
So as for banishing racism in the industry in the context of who these people perform with by using legal means, that's not likely to work, but what could work to some degree is societal pressure being utilized to modify such discriminatory behavior.
Edited by - Zaer on 5/5/2010 12:22:04 AM
pornlaw
Member

578 Posts
10/05
Posted - May 5 2010 : 1:26AM
Its not a legal fiction, its fact. Child porn and materials that are judged obscene do not qualify for First Amendment protection, other than that, pornography will pass the Miller v. California test and withstand the scrutiny.
Perspective means nothing.
Again, not relevant. The KKK isnt an industry but merely a group of people loosely connected.
Its not a question of good vs. bad. The framers of the Constitution were very clear to protect all speech, no matter how unpopular. That is the bedrock that all other Constitution principles are founded upon.
Will do and thanks....
I will take the Constitution of the United States and the freedons it affords over all the safety that more civilized countries have. I would rather be free than safe.
Agents being licensed has nothing to do with racism. I am an attorney. I am licensed by the State Bar. If I choose not to represent minorities, I have a right to do so. It might be a stupid business decision, but I cannot be forced to work with clients I wish not to.
Again, not true, at least in the US. DP, Wicked, Vivid ect. do not have to hire minority actors for their movies no more than the Los Angeles Lakers have to hire white guys to play basketball. In the US, special skill jobs (actors, athletes, ect) are not subject to traditional employment law hiring practices. And yes performers do have a right to choose to have sex with who they want. Most girls have no lists.
Should the voices of many outweigh the voice of one ? In this country we value the voice of the minority.
Here's a quote from Larry Flynt....
And one from Thomas Jefferson...
AsianAnalPantyhoserGuy
Deactivated User

Ass fucking/ foot fetish/ pantyhose= insanity!
465 Posts
3/10
Posted - May 5 2010 : 1:30AM
Countries who regulate hate speech can remain in their "thought police states". This is America, free to hate whatever we want to hate. Anybody that thinks it's a good idea to regulate thought should put themselves in a bloody time capsule, go back to Nazi Germany, 1939....and go suck Hitler's cock. With all due respect, of course.
If Justin wants to make a point, by all means I say do it. Good for him. Hopefully people will take notice and join him in his mission. That's the beauty of this country. It may not be probable, but at least it will remain possible.
....and Justin, if you're listening....Evanni Solei is open for anal.
Ida Lupino
Deactivated User

429 Posts
11/08
Posted - May 5 2010 : 1:35AM
Without Hitler, posters die.
Aplus
Senior Member

1431 Posts
5/05
Posted - May 5 2010 : 5:01AM
Not sure it'll do or solve much either, but I commend him for his willingness to take a stand. Change will never happen when someone sits on their hands or keeps their mouth shut so as not to make waves. If porn companies have a right to discriminate like Pornlaw says, and I'm still not convinced they do, performers like Justin certainly have a right to voice their disapproval. Free Speech works both ways.
ntfighter
Member

645 Posts
7/07
Posted - May 5 2010 : 10:46AM
No one has a right to discriminate in business based solely on race. Pornlaw is a practicing attorney and is framing the porn industry racial policy re: African Americans, as a 1st amendment, individual rights issue. It seem to be less about the constitution and more about Ayn Rand. He is neither absolutely right nor absolutely wrong. One person individual freedom ends at my individual freedom to pursue and excel in a chosen endeavor. Free from the tyranny of arbitrarily imposed strictures by any group no matter under what charter they operate. The constitution grants each of us that right. "Any alleged 'right' of one man, which necessitates the violation of the rights of another, is not and cannot be a right. The courts have decided that the right to discriminate by race ends at the door to the marketplace. Special skills require a rare, uncommon talent or ability. Ethnicity or race isn't recognized "Special" under the exemption. It seems to me that the brand of freedom spoken of here would require more then small government, it requires the abolition of society. I don't think that is what Ayn Rand intended.
I'm all for a return to barbarism, for to long have the weak held sway because of the strong has sought to be fair to them. Well we see where it got us, bunch of Caspar milquetoast collapsed the economy with their airy-fairy schemes. Now they want to collapse the government by interpreting the Constitution along the line proposed by a mad women.They want codified racial discrimination again. Bring on the law of tooth and claw. I'll die and go to hell before I sit still and allow someone to infringe my ability to freely exercise my inalienable rights.

Edited by - ntfighter on 5/5/2010 12:15:40 PM

 
pornlaw
Member

578 Posts
10/05
Posted - May 5 2010 : 11:08AM
Perhaps, Suzie Bigtits wants to perform in a Falcon Studios production (Falcon Studios). Does she have the right to protest the fact that Falcon is a gay studio and only produces films that feature men on men sex ?
Does Suzie Bigtits have the right to protest and claim discrimination based upon her sex ? Her vagina is no different than skin color or race.
What would be the response on this board if Suzie Bigtits wrote a 1200 word missive to the industry how because of her vagina Falcon Studios would not hire her ???
Would those that support Justin, support Suzie as well and claim that Falcon should add women to their gay porn titles ?
I suspect not.....
Doesnt Falcon have the right to determine what content they produce ?
Edited by - pornlaw on 5/5/2010 11:10:30 AM
Zaer
Deactivated User

249 Posts
10/07
Posted - May 5 2010 : 11:54AM
Without safety freedom is irrelevant. Recall Maslow.
And as other more civilized countries have demonstrated, the USA wouldn't be affected in any significant way were hate speech to be curtailed here.
I would question the case law on that issue, because I would imagine that if an environment was found to exist where discrimination of a racial, age, gender, or other kind was apparent then a lawsuit could be filed on those grounds.
Furthermore, given what most in the industry do, it can hardly qualify as a specialized skill job.
So it's an open question on whether or not such discriminatory behavior would be protected if challenged in court.
Quotes from a pornographer and a person who owned slaves demonstrating his hypocrisy on the issue of equal rights and minority rights doesn't make for a terribly persuasive argument on the issue of protecting the rights of those in the minority.
bootymeister
Senior Member

Gravity as Curved Space: Bootymeister's Theory of General Relativity
1589 Posts
11/08
Posted - May 5 2010 : 11:57AM
You should apologize for your first post in this thread. Not Justin, not anyone else, questioned the legality of the lack of African American performers in the porn industry, until you derailed the thread by restating the obvious about porn and every other entertainment industry in this country.
You might be aware that "boycott" is an economic attempt at remedy, and not a legal attempt at remedy. Nor is it, as you may intend to impress, an illegal attempt at remedy.




Edited by - bootymeister on 5/5/2010 11:59:27 AM

ntfighter
Member

645 Posts
7/07
Posted - May 5 2010 : 11:59AM
I do remember a few case over the years where similar issues has come up. A guy sued Hooters and won. Some guy sued a cheer leading squad and won. A female student sued her Football team and won. So I guess there's is a good chance she'd have a case. You tell me.
I assume Falcon is a homo-specific studio. Studios have a right to chose the individual contractor who best fit their business model. I am not aware of any policy or special circumstance gay porn has instituted as a requirement for women to participate. Unless the "Black" policy extends there also. I'm not aware of any studio who have a whites only policy. A couple have de facto policy's.
There hasn't been a great hue and cry regarding racial discrimination in regular porn on this board. It doesn't directly affect them so they've never notice. The few with the imagination to recognize that it does affect everyone are usually labeled as trolls and marginalized.
Edited by - ntfighter on 5/5/2010 5:13:57 PM
lenecplusultra
Deactivated User

L'enfer, c'est les autres
59 Posts
3/10
Posted - May 5 2010 : 12:23PM
[/quote]
Thats the point though. You cannot work in an industry that was founded on the principles of free speech and the First Amendment and then declare that free speech should be regulated. Racist speech, just like pornographic speech is protected. It is axiomatic that without one you do not have the other. It is inconsistent for someone who has had a career making/performing in films that others find digusting and revolting to now complain of speech they find to be disgusting and revolting. As someone who believes in the First Amendment I must also support speech which I may not personally believe in.
And I must have a doppleganger in Euro-porn.... I have never performed but I would love to know the name of the male performer I look like !!
[/quote]
I am no lawyer and you definetely know the law better than I do, but your argument is so self contradictory. You are defending the rights of the women not to work with black men by using the first amendement, but where you fail is that you also are trying to show that Justin is foolish for trying to use his free speech rights. Do you have a lot of dodgers as your clients?
If you can elaborate so much on the decisions made by those women, why not stop trying to make Justin look like a fool simply because he is expressing his views. It seems like you deem it right for the women to refuse work with black men, but you don't think Justin is right in protesting?
You say that it is inconsistent for him to complain because other people think that what he is doing is disgusting.
If pornstars are doing something that other people think is disgusting, how come they can express their free speech rights by saying black men are too disgusting for them?
By your logic, no one who is doing porn should express their views ever because someone else think what they are doing is disgusting?
What you are trying to do is use the law when it works for your argument, and turn a blind eye when it does not fit your argument.
I never thought someone could contradict themselves so much in just one paragraph, specially a lawyer...
Edited by - lenecplusultra on 5/5/2010 12:34:37 PM
pornlaw
Member

578 Posts
10/05
Posted - May 5 2010 : 1:00PM
Exactly.....
I never said Justin didnt have the right to "protest" or attempt to "boycott" the industry or gather others to rally to his cause. Nor am I attempting to make Justin look foolish. I have personally know Justin for more than 5 years and I can say he is an intelligent man.
His statement on discrimination is his free speech right. No different than a girl that joins Shelley Lubben's Pink Cross Fundation when she leaves the industry and speaks publically about her time in the industry. I believe in his right to speak his mind no more or no less than anyone's else free speech rights.
I apologize if you thought my posts were an attack on Justin.
The problem that I have with Justin's argument is that he would like to see government regulation of the porn industry. I just cannot agree with his position. Once the government can regulate the content in the movies, it will be regulated out of existence... I feel the same about condoms in porn. A performer has a free speech right to work without a condom in his/her performance...the Constitution remains the supreme law and all other laws are subjugated to it -- even employment and health and safety laws.
As for women having the right to work with whom they choose -- I do support a woman's right to choose what she does with her body, whom she gives it to and if she uses it to earn money. Her body belongs to her and no one else. I fully support Roe v. Wade, legalized prostitution and the right she has to share her body with those that want to watch her having sex on camera.
I support all peoples rights to be left alone from governmental intrusions.
Edited by - pornlaw on 5/5/2010 1:01:44 PM
the_mayor
Member

233 Posts
6/09
Posted - May 5 2010 : 7:59PM
First off i'd just like to say good for Justin Long.
I have often had conflicting feelings about IR. Not against those who do it but about those who don't. The diffuclty i have is that the nature of the business means everyone has the right to choose who they work with. In a perfect world these decisions shouldn't and wouldn't be based on race. The only consideration would be; "oh my friend told me that guy is an ass hole, or that guy has a stinky dick, or that guys a great lay."
I do think it is incredibly odd when the likes of Asa Akira come out promoting her first interacial scenes with Invasion 4. When, as Justin pointed out, every scene she has done has most likely been interacial (I don't ever recall seeing her with an asian talent). Just because it's a black dick suddenly that's interacial.
I do think the industry itself is the only thing that can change that. Instead of creating dvds with names like 'Black Balled' 'My Big Black Stepdad' and 'Gangland 74' (74!?!) which i am sure are some of the more mild titles. The studios should simply use black talent without announcing it. Don't make a big deal out of it. If you buy a dvd and Sean Michaels is fucking a chick on it don't make an issue of the facts around it being her 'first interacial' instead simply have the scene on the disk. If you want an all black male cast alonside an all white female cast, fine. Don't tell me. Don't slap IR all over the cover. If some hate tank out there is offended that there is IR porn on his new dvd fuck him you already have his money and if it was industry wide he has no where to turn to avoid the same eventuality happening on his next purchase from a different studio.
Frankly i don't care what anyone says it is a racist decision not to work with black talent. But it is the chicks right not to do it if she doesn't want to, even if that makes her a racist.
What people industry wide should say is if you won't do IR then we won't work with you. The male talent pool isn't incredibly large. If all talent male and female turned around and said "if you won't take black dick you can't have my dick/pussy either" there would have to be a rapid rethink within the upper echelons of the porn world.
As far as i can tell there are two reasons talent feels that they shouldn't do IR. One is it will be bad for thier career and two is they are racist. Perhaps both. I'd hope largely it would be only the first reason. So if the studios come out ad say that in no way is this going to affect you. Then suddenly it's only the racists not taking black dick. Once you know thats the case then black ball them *pun intended*.
the_mayor
Member

233 Posts
6/09
Posted - May 5 2010 : 8:03PM
Just a side note, Justin obviously didn't mention Asa specificaly. That is my example, and i use it because it is the most recent one i can think of.
Zaer
Deactivated User

249 Posts
10/07
Posted - May 5 2010 : 9:11PM
He's right.
Asian women in the industry routinely do scenes with whites and they don't consider it ir. And white women do scenes with Asians' and Latino's and it's not considered ir.
Only scenes with Blacks are considered so, which means that the industry ignorantly considers there to be only two races (Asian, Latino, & white) are one, and Black is the other.
A worker in the industry does not have the "right" to potentially spread diseases to others in the industry and the public.
And if such a belief was tested in court logic would dictate that Public Health concerns would trump any alleged "right" to put other people's health at risk.
Master D
Deactivated User

516 Posts
1/10
Posted - May 5 2010 : 11:32PM
Well I hear that LA Dircet only have two black performer on there list. One of the performer who is a black female will do only does white guys not black guys on that list.
ntfighter
Member

645 Posts
7/07
Posted - May 5 2010 : 11:56PM
In this thread at its the beginning we discussed the point you're making. At the time we had a majority of opinion to the effect that in business no one has the right to discrimination based on race. Those laws were refereed to as "Jim Crow" and were found to be unconstitutional.
Everyone has a right to be as racist as they want in the comfort of their own home. On the common side of our door society expect that we conform our behavior to a certain standard.
What remains to us under the constitution is the right to refuse to work with anyone, for any reason, no questions asked, on a one to one, judging the individual and not the group, basis. That should be enough, It has proved sufficient in all other commercial enterprises.
Edited by - ntfighter on 5/6/2010 12:10:40 AM
Nimrod
Member

624 Posts
7/09
Posted - May 6 2010 : 12:05AM
Brothers I hate to say it but these girls are within their rights to refuse work with black men. Even though it may be offensive, it is their body after all and . Racism by individuals isn't illegal in this country...why shouldn't pornstars be allowed to be prejudice? Will you ever sue your white neighbor for refusing to talk to you because you are black? The good news is that over 80 % of the hottest girls in porn are now doing IR. It keeps getting better every year. Most of the girls who refuse to work with black men are ugly anyway. So which ones do you want? The hot ones or the ugly ones? Racism is a reality that we all just need to learn to live with. End of Story.
Edited by - Nimrod on 5/6/2010 12:10:07 AM
ntfighter
Member

645 Posts
7/07
Posted - May 6 2010 : 12:56AM
"I am a IR fan and I am black btw. Well if a girl doesn't want to do IR it her choice and I don't worry about it because they aren't paying my bills. The best way to boycott IR dodgers is to not buy there movies that all. These girl had did went to high school and have to do a history report on a famous black person for black history month and did vote for Obama and were sad that Michael Jackson die."
Zaer
Deactivated User

249 Posts
10/07
Posted - May 6 2010 : 1:11AM
The constitution doesn't give you that right. Furthermore, there are laws against discrimination in hiring practices so you're not allowed to refuse to work with anyone for any reason.
And it may be tolerated in the industry, but only in a narrow context.
the_mayor
Member

233 Posts
6/09
Posted - May 6 2010 : 7:36AM
What this really comes down to is that in porn you have the right to work with who you want. Because of the nature of what is being done if you don't want to work with someone and are forced to it becomes rape. That being said when the basis for not working with a group of people is the colour of thier skin it becomes racist. If it is truely 'nothing personal' then it is racist.
I think it may have been true in the past that do IR could affect your career negativly but this seems to be a excuse that certain 'stars' hide behing. If you look at the top names in porn of all time. There is only 1 in the top ten who doesn't do IR and one of the 10 is a black male performer.
https://www.adultdvdtalk.com/price_search/topactors.asp
If you look at the current most popular this is slightly different. I think largely because some of the girls haven't done it 'YET'. When you consider that several of the women in the all time top ten have been in the industry for a 5-10 year period it's hard to see how doing IR has affected them negatively.
Some might say well they aren't contract girls. If that is the case then perhaps people need to be looking at the vivids and whoever else and telling them to sort thier shit out. If they shoot IR scenes then there is no fear of the fact that doing IR will hurt your porn career and therefore it's only the racist ass holes who won't do it.
I know i've probably made the same points i did before but it has really started to bug me lately.
ntfighter
Member

645 Posts
7/07
Posted - May 6 2010 : 8:16AM
What may be tolerated in the industry? The ability to refuse to work with an individual is standard procedure in the industry. The problem is it is also the norm to refuse to work with certain people based on their perceived ethnicity.

Everyone has the right to refuse to work with anyone. Slavery was abolished by constitutional amendment so we are free to exercise our right to walk away. If it is found that employment in a certain arena is filled with people we find intolerable we have the right to find a new profession. We do not have the right to demand that the workplace conform to our individual prejudices by not hiring people we don't like as is common practice in the porn industry.


I think we may be talking about the same thing in different ways.

Edited by - ntfighter on 5/6/2010 8:20:02 AM

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