Just to be clear, no one knows if "porn has done this to her". This is a tough career. A lot of girls are very well adjusted and handle everything very well. Other girls, not so much. But to blame it on the industry (when none of us knows the true story) is ridiculous.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 28 2015 : 8:06PM
You do know that "for the worse" in this case is subjective, and not some manifestly evident fact, right? I like what Kagney's done with her hair. Belladonna, Lily LaBeau, and several others pornstars have pulled off having shaved heads imo. Plenty of pornstars have changed their hair color multiple times over the years without it being "for the worse." Whether a tattoo is garish or not is also subjective, and needn't be evidence of anything except that the pornstar wanted to get a new tattoo.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - May 28 2015 : 8:59PM
It doesn't have to be for his point to stand. (I'm skeptical of his claim in general, but not because of the subjective nature of it)Pointing out exceptions doesn't disprove the general point. The point is it can be for the worse by most people's estimation. I think most people would agree that change was "for the worse"Agreed. I'm sure there are lesser known people that have gone through similiar things, but Janine is really the only example I can think of off the top of my head, and I would argue that (ironically) she actually paved the way for heavily inked girls to be accepted in mainstream porn. Yes, there are plenty of people that (especially in recent years) like tattoos, shaved heads, and other "alternative" looks. but there are still people that don't and that's kinda the point.
are you an idiot? I have been in this business for 13 years, worked with Kagney since she first started, have kept in touch with her during her first break from the biz, and still speak to her today. You are a fan. I know her intimately and in real life. Get a clue chief. Jesus what a super fanboi
unfortunately my friend, its not subjective to the vast majority of fans, directors, producers, agents, etc. Of course there are minorities, but you are missing the point completely. By the way, Belladonna left the business and hates the business, Lily Labeau shaved her head in order to quit the business and then reentered it again later. You just completely proved my point and used 2 examples to do it.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 28 2015 : 9:43PM
^It can also be for the better, or be neutral, depending on who it is you're asking. On Juelz Ventura's thread there's plenty of whining about the changes she's made to her appearance over the years. There are also those of us who love the way she looks. If Aletta Ocean is discussed it's the same thing, and there are many other examples. I'm not sure what good it does to speculate about an imaginary consensus view of "most people," as if porn viewers are basically a homogeneous group who generally think the same way. Even if every single comment on this thread about KLK's hair were positive, I still would not conclude that most porn viewers probably like the change. It would be too great a leap. Britney's taken plenty of bad pictures with a full head of hair and so has every other celebrity. Furthermore she began wearing wigs fairly quickly and so there was never really an opportunity for the public to adjust to how she looked without hair. When Rihanna cut her hair, I remember reading countless comments on the internet (back when I still read comments on such things) stating that she looked like a boy. How long was it before these same people were proclaiming that she looked sexier than ever? Miley faced a similar backlash that also soon dried up, and the list goes on and on. So much for most people's estimation.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 28 2015 : 10:01PM
It should go without saying that all pornstars eventually leave the business. Sasha Grey left the business and, according to James Deen, hates the business. Did she cut her hair or get a garish tattoo before she left? What was Jenna Presley's big change to her appearance before she left and was "born again"? Correlation is not casualty. I'm sure you know that Jada Stevens is no longer a pale blonde, and hasn't been for a long time. Neither is Madison Ivy. Hell, besides her skin tone she's changed her hair color more than once too.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - May 28 2015 : 10:05PM
^^speaking of leaps I'm not willing to make... The same people? Really? you're going to tell me that it was "the same people" who pulled a 180 on Rhianna, and Britney and Miley, etc? And that's not a leap? Mmmmmkay. I see the same argument made all of the time on sports forums. "You all said (your coach) sucked/cheated at his previous job, but now "the same people" think he's great," with nothing to back that up other than speculation. It's BS when they do it there, and it's BS when you do it here. But again, you're missing the point. It doesn't matter if there is or isn't a homogeneous porn consensus on tattoos, hair length, color or anything else. In this particular example, it only matters if the perception of such exists in Kagney's (or whomever else you want to talk about) head. If that perception exists (true or not) then Christian has at least a leg to stand on, regardless of how awesome you think people look with short hair and tattoos. I happen to disagree with his generalization, but considering the phenomenon has been documented (Janine said she got so many tattoos, chopped off her hair, etc specifically so she wouldn't be able to do porn anymore) it's hard to say what he's claiming is completely false. I'd say he's right on his idea, but overestimating the magnitude. (or perhaps that was just hyperbole) Edited by - murdock on 5/28/2015 10:05:31 PM And another thing... kinda hypocritical of you to rant about how there is no homogeneous concensus on porn looks, and try to pound the "eye of the beholder" drum, but then you turn right around and try to assert that everybody would have eventually liked Britney's shaved head look, if they'd just had a chance to get used to it, which is pretty contrary to the idea that everyone's tastes vary. Edited by - murdock on 5/28/2015 10:20:23 PM
Do you have a point in all this? I think you're arguing that porn is a disgusting business and I disagree. I think you're saying porn causes everyone to attempt suicide and to become a drug addict. Edited by - Captain Jack on 5/28/2015 10:12:51 PM
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - May 28 2015 : 10:12PM
Oh c'mon. Really? He claimed that everyone who radically changed their appearance for the worse did so to leave the business, not that everyone who leaves the business radically changes their appearance for the worse. I thought you were better than that.Are you suggestin that Jada Stevens and Madison Ivy radically changed their appearance for the worse? That's just
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Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - May 28 2015 : 10:15PM
Point of note. Using Britney for any example other than being white trash is a bad example. It's well known that she is truly incapable of making just about any sort of decision regarding her personal life. As far as any of these girls rocking or pulling off the buzz cut look, what are you guys? high?
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Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - May 28 2015 : 10:23PM
Blaming porn for anything is kind of a stretch, don't you think?
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 28 2015 : 10:24PM
I didn't use Britney as example of people changing their minds. Yes, many of the same people who criticized Rihanna and Miley's haircuts flip flopped. Looking up the various user names and naming various people whom I know is pointless. It's something I observed. If you choose to believe otherwise, more power to you. Why refer to my opinion as bullshit? Let's have a polite, civil discussion. We don't know if the perception exists in Kagney's head or not.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - May 28 2015 : 10:28PM
^^ no, "we" don't. If only there was someone who knows Kagney personally who's been in touch with her lately that could weigh in. Edited by - murdock on 5/28/2015 10:28:46 PM
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - May 28 2015 : 10:30PM
Blaming everything on porn seems like a stretch. Blaming porn for a few things seems pretty reasonable. Claiming that porn has never adversely affected anyone's life is every bit as absurd as claiming that it ruins everybody.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 28 2015 : 10:31PM
We're just back to square one then, as if it obvious to all that Kagney changed her opinion for the worse.Unnecessary.Um, you do know that there were fans of Madison's who complained when she went tan, right? No idea if that happened with Jada. In my opinion neither of them made a change for the worse, but they did make a radical change and any radical change will be viewed negatively by some porn fans. It's not as if their original looks were superfluous to the reasons fans were attracted to them, and I'm sure if Madison went tan and then retired right after Christian would see her as an example. Edited by - misspornUSA on 5/28/2015 10:34:19 PM Edited by - misspornUSA on 5/28/2015 10:35:55 PM
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 28 2015 : 10:33PM
I'm sorry, did Christian write "Kagney told me that she cut her hair so she won't get work in the industry." Maybe that was earlier in the thread and I missed it.
Is it unreasonable to suggest the possibility working in the sex industry has been stressful to the point someone has a nervous breakdown. Certainly not the only factors, and others may include any number of life experiences from childhood on. People get burned out in the stock market, in the military, in the medical field, mental health field, teaching, raising children... whatever. If Kagney had a set of circumstances that included working in the adult industry and she cites the industry in her tweets (which I only indulged looking at once a while ago to see for myself), then it is safe to assume it played a role in her personal crises. It is a sad situation that she is having trouble making sense of her life. None of us know details. Too many presume the worst. Life is complex. Being a fan is one thing, trying to be involved is another. We all want sex to be a fun, carefree, integral part of life. It is also primal, emotionally charged, intense experience carrying baggage imbued by societal proscriptions going back who knows how far. The adult industry is only 40 years old, gonzo maybe 20, and the hardcore shit these girls are doing now is 5, maybe 10 years old. Raincoater shit from 1995 is laughably tame compared to now. These girls go through a lot. They have histories, families, friends, hopes for the future that do not include the sex industry, and countless other factors. I might consider asking yourself if you were willingly, consciously, eagerly fucking on camera for years whether you might have a moment of introspection wondering "is this the best thing for me" "what does this mean" "some might judge me for this" ... among many other. I am a just a fan so I can't imagine fielding those questions. From what I've read, she might be going through just this type of self confrontation. And if you've ever "soul searched" for lack of a better term, you know it can be a crushing experience whether you're a priest or a porn star. I have always enjoyed Kagney's scenes and wish her peace and strength. She will find her way, though it may take time. One thing is certain and that is none of us will have an impact on how this process plays out for her. This is for her and those close enough to support her in an immediate fashion. People should stop fighting about who knows best. In this instance, none of you do. That's my opinion of everyone's reaction. Not calling anyone out in particular, certainly. I thought a small bit of perspective is in order. Pray for her if that's meaningful for you. Otherwise, leave it alone. This post is likely going to generate a bunch of "I know best" responses. Remember, I never said I know best - these are just opinions as I said. You know what they say about opinions.
PRETTY MUCH! I've been saying this constantly. It's like Fat Elvis. No one wanted a stamp of Fat Elvis. They wanted the slim looking one in his prime. People change and sometimes they get worse or illness happens. In this case it is happening before our eyes. She's done HUNDREDS of movies. Just enjoy those and stop wanting someone with serious mental problems to return to an industry that might not have been the best thing for her to do.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - May 28 2015 : 11:03PM
No. We're back to did Kagney think that most would perceive her change as being for the worse. What Christian was asserting has nothing to do with how you or I perceive her, and everything to do with how she perceives the rest of the world.People complain all the time. Was it a majority of people?Then why bring her up?Are we talking about some fans or most fans? I can't keep up with these goalposts you keep moving.So Christian isn't allowed to speculate about what's in his acquaintance's head, but you're more than happy to speculate what's in his head. That's some nice work there, Lou.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 28 2015 : 11:12PM
^We do not know how Kagney perceives the rest of the world and Christian never claimed that Kagney thinks her hair is ugly or that she believes that most people would regard it as such. I don't claim to know what a majority of porn fans think about anything one way or the other, which is why I disagreed with Christian's comment in the first place. I brought Jada up because she radically changed her appearance, and it is reasonable to assume that at least some of her fans preferred the way she looked before No one wrote about whether Christian was "allowed" to speculate or not. No one is questioning his rights here.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - May 28 2015 : 11:36PM
^Maybe we're talking about different posts, but I'm referring to this:He's saying they want to make themselves unshootable. I read that as "unappealing to most fans" and while he didn't specifically say that it applied to Kagney, I think that was implied. But if you have a different interpretation of that I'd love to hear it. I don't necessarily think I know what the majority of porn fans like either (but I at least have a rough idea) but that isn't relevant as I've already stated, this is about perception, not reality. If Kagney perceives the changes as making herself unshootable it doesn't matter if in reality it gives 100% of porn fans instant 12 hour erections. Neither mine nor your opinion of what is or isn't attractive is relevant to Christian's comments. But you seem unwilling to take Christian's word that he knows what's going on with Kagney because he hasn't said "Kagney told me that she cut her hair so she won't get work in the industry." Yet you are more than happy to make similar speculations about what is in his head. I'm holding you to the same standard you're holding him. If you can't show me where Chrisitan said "if Madison went tan and then retired right after I would see her as an example." then I'm not accepting your premise.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 29 2015 : 12:15AM
^It's Christian's opinion that Kagney's hair is generally viewed as unattractive within the industry and by fans, but he has remained silent on whether Kagney shares that opinion. You've written more than once that what matters is her perception. We don't know what her perception is. She hasn't told us. Christian hasn't told us. You don't know. I don't know. Maybe Christian will visit the thread again and change all that. Perhaps Kagney will write a tweet tomorrow that is something along the lines of "I hate my hair, u all do 2 #ugly." But unless one of those things happen we will remain in ignorance. Until then, let's put an end to this detour.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 29 2015 : 12:43AM
^I didn't rant. Be nice.
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JackSparrow Deactivated User
7235 Posts 7/11
Posted - May 29 2015 : 12:45AM
her new haircut is her least problem,look at her face and you know she had a lot of other problems that she did before ,in her head aka mentally and maybe again drug abuse.the reason she took a break twice before and went atleast once to rehab before coming back last time around.
this thread has gotten really strange. let me just state this again. 1. when a girl that is in the business undergoes some sort of life change (mental, physical, emotional, relationship, etc) and no longer wants to be in porn, the easiest way to ensure that she will have to leave porn or get out without actually stating her intention to do so, is to RADICALLY change her appearance by shaving her head or getting a large or garish tattoo somewhere VERY visible. Jada Stevens cutting her hair shorter obviously isn't the same thing...that's just a hairstyle change. Lily Labeau shaving all her hair completely off in order to ensure no one hires her in the future is what I am talking about. How do I know this? Because I have been in this biz for 13 years, worked for the talent agents, won AVN awards, produced and directed for Naughty America for three years, and I know this business inside and out. This isn't just a random generalization....this is a 100 percent fact that other people in the business would agree with. I do not have to tell you the fans that the porn industry has undergone a paradigm shift to younger, more natural, more innocent looking girls. If you don't believe me, check x-art, babes, twistys, nubiles, passionhd, and the rest of the companies making more money than they know what to do with. Bonnie Rotten & Christy Mack are anomalies. 2. Kagney Linn Karter is a wonderful, sweet, and kind person. Unfortunately porn is not good for her mental health. She can not handle the stresses and mental part of this business. How do I know this? Because I am her friend in real life. I care about her well being and she knows this. This has absolutely nothing to do with the generalization of porn as a business. This is about Kagney specifically. I am not sure where Captain Jack or Roscoe Fuji think I am speaking about porn as a whole. Unless your theory is that Kagney would have had her mental breakdown/suicide attempts whether she got into porn or not. I guess you guys could argue that. I tend to disagree because the porn lifestyle often exacerbates existing or underlying problems. 3. Taking Kagney back into the business when an agent knows that the end result will be the same thing that just happened to a girl makes me sad. I guess I am getting soft in my old age. I think the same thing about Cytherea returning to the biz after getting gang raped multiple times less than 6 months ago. But it is what it is. Ultimately this isn't a team sport, it's every man and woman for themselves.
supposedly the scene that Cytherea shot since returning will be out sometime next month as for the whole"changing appearance to make yourself unshootable" thing..didnt know that was the real reason why Janine got all those tats..you could say Julia Bond tried doing the same(or it was just all the negative comments she received for the scenes she did with Brazzers that caused her to leave again,but now she's doing custom videos.. and didnt this whole thing with Kagney start with that mess on twitter between her and Chris Brown?
Finally, a reasonable response rather than going off on someone just for the fun of it. I know Kagney a little bit and have been in contact with her recently. I know that she's a sweet person. If you look above, I said that, for her sake, I hope that she does not get back into porn. Porn is stressful, I know that. I talk to enough people in the industry. My assertion is that "porn did this to her". Kagney obviously can not handle the lifestyle. She had some demons inside of her that caused her to go off the deep end a couple years ago, cleaned herself back up, got back into it and within a year, the same thing happened. No one knows if "porn caused this" or if Kagney was teetering on the edge before she even got into porn. I care for her as a person, not like the moron up above who sounds like he'd like to see Kagney do a double anal then stab herself in the heart at the end of it just so he can jack off.
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Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - May 29 2015 : 10:24PM
#2 well, you say it yourself in a previous post, "porn did this her twice!" I'm basically saying, "huh?" I'm also saying "If you can't stand the heat you get out of the kitchen, you don't stay in the kitchen and say the kitchen is making me stay in here." And to quote Super Chicken, "She knew the job was dangerous when she took it." #1. I like how you shoot down the whole piracy is killing porn argument in one quick sentence, Edited by - rosco fuji on 5/29/2015 10:27:04 PM
Sorry about my lack of knowledge, but this means That ragney will return to make porn movies ?
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SirPsychoSexy Deactivated User
49 Posts 8/14
Posted - May 31 2015 : 7:05AM
guys , all the girls in the industry are less or more broken. All of them need help at some point . if u wish they could get help then sorry u need have to find another hobby . normal girl would never do porn . My point is , girl need to be kind of broken to do that kind of job and handle it. this is not a job for good girls got it?
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Mojo Deactivated User
1223 Posts 9/03
Posted - May 31 2015 : 8:25AM
Some are broken, but not all. Haven't you ever heard of nymphomaniacs? You don't have to be "broken" to be a nymphomaniac.
The urge for sex is one of the most basic human traits, so it is hard to call it not "normal". The urge to earn money is also very common in our society as it is, so it is also "normal". So....
KLK was and is one of my favorites,my only hope is that she is ok if she does come back.I get zero enjoyment out of stars who have to make a comeback because of financial or other reasons.When one of my favorites retire I enjoy the scenes they shot and don't lament about what she didn't do.
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Mojo Deactivated User
1223 Posts 9/03
Posted - Jun 1 2015 : 3:14PM
That's another type of scene where I get a limp, where the girl is doing it, not 'cause she's enjoying it, but because she has to; when she's doing it only for the pay. And the more desperate she is the bigger the "limp".
Kagney Linn Karter @ AEBN
Posted - May 28 2015 : 1:00PM
I think most people would agree that change was "for the worse"Agreed.
