Edited by - croy on 8/27/2006 10:19:22 PM

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Look, her general arguments about the human condition are fascinating, but why can't she just come out and admit that she doesn't like it? That's really what she wants to say. I guess if she's an attorney, that explains everything. Her rationalisations are irrelevant, it comes down to two things: satisfying you and satisfying her. It can't always be both ways, but in any good relationship one will occasionally sacrifice for the other's benefit, as long as there's love and trust.

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If you're asking about facials specifically. I find them comical. If my husband wanted to cum on my face I would close my eyes and smile. There is a broad range of emotion between finding something sexually stimulating and putting up with it.

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You've both stated my lady's case better than I was able to relay it. Your points are the very one's she makes.

But the bottom line is, whether it was the chicken or the egg that came first, doesn't really matter...I, and I assume most men in our western culture, find specific things such as the facial to be highly erotic. As such, it is part of our sexual repertoire (as has been with a good number of my previous relationships), but there are times when she too finds it somewhat funny and has difficulty staying "in the moment".

Your comments give support to the idea that the porn starlets we see begging the guy to cum on her face is just what porn is about, and that is, sexual fantasy. While many women do in fact do this with their guy, I have to think that for the most part any erotic value of it for them is simply seeing how much it pleases their partner.

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I'm 32 - so maybe my generation has not been that influenced by porn? Or maybe it's just the guys I've known. It's not like I haven't been around very sexually open people. I lived in Berkeley for five years.

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By the way, I'm well past your age, so I'm not sure there's any generation correlation there. In fact, it seems it's the younger viewer who's buying all the gonzo and "facial gangbang" titles that have flooded the market.

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I don't know about other men, but I have been with one that was overly influenced by porn. I know that's what it was. I was fucking hot back then. He should've been turned on by me, but he wasn't. What an idiot.

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Even though I am a male who finds the male to female facial highly erotic, and very stimulating and fulfilling both in porn, and, were I to get it, in my private life, I do agree on balance with the point that Steph, Lindi, and most women make about it.

I don't think men come to that as a natural part of sexual desire.

While I have been consumed and preoccupied with the oral aspects of sex since I first became aware of it at a young age, including the brain exploding idea of a girl actually letting me cum in her mouth, I most likely would never have gotten to the idea of facials on my own. That concept would have been too far out in space for me to even conceive. And I've never had a female partner ASK me to cum on her face. A few have asked me to cum in their mouths, but never on their face.

So yeah, it was probably the influence of porn (thank you John Holmes), and the on-screen willingness of porn actresses, (whatever their motivation), that brought me to this state where the facial is so highly prized in my sexual world. In porn and in my reality back when my sex life was wilder and more fulfilling.

Since there is no actual physical contact, I don't know if the facial can even legitimately be termed a "sex act" between partners, (the same is true with "water sports", but that is another discussion), however there is no doubt that it is part of the sexual reverie for many people. So since it's appeal (at least from the male perspective), cannot really be physical, then it must be psychological. And the psychological aspects are many and varied from male to male.

I'm only speaking for me but I'm sure that many other males would agree that the visual aspect of the facial is stunning and very stimulating to our sexual nerve centers. The idea of the gorgeous female face, which some women spend hours each day getting that gorgeous, messily defiled by the ultimate expression of our manhood is a strong one. What it all means is what's different from guy to guy. To some it might represent the ultimate act of love from their partner. To others it might reflect the ultimate act of submission. To still others, it might be an expression of dominance. For most males that are turned on by it, I think it's probably some combination of the three.

But the really salient point that I think makes the entire aura of facials in porn so different and so much more popular from that in real life is that in porn, the women are always wanting it . In many cases begging and pleading for it. For most men that is the cherry on top of the sundae. This difference between the porn vixen begging you to paint her face, while at home you spend weeks or monthss trying to coax your squeeze into doing it, (I would say years, but after awhile you figure out what is and ain't gonna happen in your world, and you just let it drop), is all the difference in the world.

Because I believe that in reality, most men, especially those in loving, respectful relationships, don't really want to do things that their partners aren't down with. Even if they themselves, desire it strongly. So the component of the female porn actress really wanting the facial is what makes it so popular in porn. In real life, the facial is just like the anal for a lot of people. As bad as the male might want it, even if the female agrees to it, if you know in your heart that she ain't feelin' it, would rather not do it, or is just doing it to appease you, (which is different from "please you"), the effect is just not the same. Now she's doing something she really doesn't want to, and you're feeling bad cuz you created this.

Which is why a lot of practices in porn just don't translate as well in real life. Men spend a lot of time trying to convince their partner to participate in something that he's seen others do enthusiastically, while women spend a lot of time wondering if they are going to be hurt or wondering why their partner is such a creep.

As to Throbbing Gristle's postulate that porn is "art imitating life", in an effort to get his girl to let him facialize her, nice try. Good luck and let me know if that works. I'm kinda in the other camp that says porn feeds our fantasies, that's why it's so popular and that's why it ain't goin' away. And that's why in many respects and for a lot of people, it's better than the sex that is goin' on at home.

I love facials, love to see 'em, and back when I had willing partners, loved to give 'em. But I've had a partner for the last 24 years for whom it is COMPLETELY OUT OF THE QUESTION, so it's porn for me.

BSD

P.S. -

TONY C. - You still got numbers for these women? If I ever find myself in a different situation, they might be useful.

Edited by - BSD on 8/28/2006 6:32:38 AM

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The number of cumshot videos versus creampie videos has nothing to do with what men find erotic in real life. It has to do with what's easier to shoot and what looks better on video.

TC, the difference between pulling out and shooting your cum wherever it lands on the body versus lining up and jacking off for a facial are worlds apart. Yes, I know a blowjob is a different story.

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Clam

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Myk

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Or were you just waxing lyrical?

I'm very confused.

Joey's advice : try piss play next time.

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BSD...I think you've most eloquently addressed the subject...very well written. Your arguments and observations are most convincing and I have to say I am in total agreement with you. In other words, I now do believe that for this particular act anyway, porn has influenced a great deal of males (including this one) to think of a facial as a "brain-exploding" (to use your wonderfully expressive term) erotic event.

BTW, and just for the record, when I’d used the term, "facial", I definitely did NOT mean the act of the guy masturbating and then aiming the results of the orgasm at a lady's face. As far as porn is concerned, I too find such scenes incredibly boring and definitely not erotic.

I perhaps used the phrase incorrectly. I was actually referring more to the culminating act of a blow-job...withdrawing a bit, as it were, during orgasm to allow some of the semen to "smudge" or land on the facial area. Perhaps my misuse of the term is because my first introduction to porn was during the golden-age when it was more common for a facial to come from a blow-job rather than from some guy simply jacking off.

So what’s the bottom line to all this? Are those that would ban porn correct in that it influences people to do certain acts that are not inherently natural and thus causes problems in relationships? Dunno. That’s one that philosophers and social scientist have argued and will continue to argue for the rest of the age.

Thanks again, all.

Edited by - Throbbing_Gristle on 8/29/2006 7:40:03 PM

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Sexual problems arise in relationships for the same reason other problems do - lack of communication, fear, selfishness, etc. Attempts to codify sexual behavior to resolve these problems is laughable on the face of it. Nothing in human history suggests it will work.

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the bottom line is that it doesn't matter about chicken or the egg bullshit, it matters how we adapt and evolve as a species. it's all about survival and evolution. if we incorporate superflous circus acts into our sexual repartoire, we're saying 'we've satisfied our basic needs, this is how we like to spend our time.' if you really have to ask if any of this matters to you at all...

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anyway, arguing semantics is lame, i agree with everything else you said.

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I love it on me and in me.

I love seeing it spray and shoot and ooze thickly.

I don't know why cumshots started to become so dominant in porn. My whole life is post-porn-video-revolution. But I know that it's exciting and deeply pleasing to watch (or make) someone (male or female) cum. And this pleasure has existed pre-porn. Being present when someone cums means getting some cum on you every once in a while. It's deeply satisfying if your partner is pleased with your orgasm as opposed to disgusted by it. The concept of smiling in the face of a sex-juice baptism is highly sexy. It says "I accept you" on a deep level.

I don't think that having high exposure to many sex acts is a bad thing. Think about it: facials aren't the only thing in porn...*everything* is shown in porn. What you take away from it says more about *you* than the porn.

I disagree about the "disconnectedness" or the "lack of physical pleasure" involved in cumming on someone. That's kind of like saying you can't have a physical reaction to just *seeing* someone. And everyone knows that isn't so. Feeling free to cum on someone can increase the physical pleasure because it releases any *internal* tension you may have around your cumming. Your orgasm can be more free if you know you don't have to worry about where your cum goes. Also, dick to face/tongue contact feels good at the moment of orgasm. Smearing cum all over. Yeah baby spread your hot seed all over me. Sensitive dicktip.

All my opinions are a combo of what men have told me about my love of their cum, and my own supposition that women squirting on their partner evinces the same sorts of feelings. I know that I squirt the biggest when I know my partner is totally into it. I don't think it's a coincidence that the partner who was the most into my squirts was the one I baptized the most. Fuck she was good. She looked like someone had thrown a bucket of water on her. 2 buckets, cuz I doused her twice with the 2 biggest squirts I'd ever produced.

So yes, I think we're influenced by porn, but not to try one particular act, but to try whatever of the hundred acts appeal to us. A better question might be "what is it about facials that make so many attracted to the act?"

Edited by - BustdownGal on 9/2/2006 7:18:47 PM

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