I've never seen such a high turnover rate of women which has occurred over the last 2 yrs. There are very few young performers nowadays that stay around as long as Jenna Haze, Gina Lynn, Jewel De'Nyle, Shyla Stylez, Nina Hartley, Alexis Amore, Charmane Star, Katsumi, Monica Sweetheart (and lots of other Czech girls) or Silvia Saint have. Most girls are now doing 15-25 scenes and calling it a wrap. Depressing.
i discussed this at length in my blog a few months ago..... http://cwians.typepad.com/christian_sings_the_blues/2008/09/naughty-bookwor.html The current business climate for girls in this business is horrendous. This is the Great Depression for girls. The pace that new girls are showing up for work here in LA has totally eroded the workload of the medium to longer tenured girls, and the death of DVDs and the slowdown of the industry has finished them off almost completely. Lets do a girl tally of the agencies: LA Direct Models - 123 Gold Star Modeling -106 Lisa Ann's Talent Management - 82 A List Talent - 79 Type 9 Models - 78 Adult Talent Managers - 63 Foxxx Modeling - 44 It Models - 22 Spiegler Girls - 21 And remember this isn't counting the numerous smaller agents that also have some girls out there as well (Metro Talent Management, Adult Faces, Fresh Talent Management, Double Exposure, Valley Babes, My Life in LA, and a few others). In this current climate, there can't be more than 125 jobs TOTAL for all agents combined per day. And that's probably much too high. So each day there are less than 25 percent of girls in the business working. That means at least 450-500 girls are doing nothing on any given day. Let's add some facts into this as well. 1. New girls work all the time because every company needs to shoot them one time for their updates. This is a law in our business. 2. The old law that doing more sex acts (anal, DP, creampie, IR, etc) isn't NEARLY as marketable as it one was for girls because most of the DVD companies that specialized in shooting those things are gone. The days of anyone being the "anal queen" of porn, or something close to that are long gone. Why? Because half the time you would be seeing her doing a vaginal scene on 15 different websites that don't give a shit about anal. The most marketable girls these days are the ones that stand out for doing something unique or having a unique look. Audrey Bitoni, Carmella Bing, Phoenix Marie, Sunshine Seiber, Shyla Stylez, Missy Stone, and Bree Olson are all good examples of this. Just being young doesn't help, having big natural boobs doesn't help, doing it all doesn't help, the facts are that you have to be hot in the eyes of directors/producers, and you have to resonate with their site members. Where does this leave the majority of the girls in the business? Well, for the last 5-6 months or so, there has been an increasing number of girls unhappy with their workload and/or not working enough to pay basic bills. Most girls blame their agents first, and we have seen a huge increase in the number of girls who hop from agent to agent. This is a huge problem for these girls. First of all, the majority of them aren't going to leave the business and go get a 9-5 job. After doing scenes for a week, making 800-1000 bucks immediately, there is no fucking way any of them are going back to flipping burgers at Wendy's for 5.85 an hour and working their butts off. Some of the older girls might have job skills that will allow them to re-enter the workforce, but the lure of easy money and an easy lifestyle is very hard to break. They all love driving their Beamers, Mercedes, and Lexus convertibles. It's no fun to work your ass off for a year in order to afford a Ford Focus. This is LA! So again, let's face facts, the majority of girls turn to escorting/hooking to supplement their depleted scene workload. The fans are out there and willing to pay good money to spend time with them. For better or worse, the vast majority of girls in the business can be bought. Am I against this? Not really. I think most girls know the risks out there, and act accordingly. Put yourself in their shoes, they have sex regularly already, whats the big deal about doing it for cash, behind closed doors, and with a condom (hopefully)? I got news for you, there is big money to be made in New York City. The only problem I have with escorting is that none of them pay taxes on the cash they make, and that is going to get them in trouble down the line. Part of being fiscally responsible is being able to see 3 years into the future, and not just 3 months. Some of the more industrious girls get a directing gig, or they get their own websites off the ground and running (Penny Flame, Puma Swede, Nikki Benz, and Eva Angelina). It just sucks to hear every girl that has been in the business for more than 3 months talking about not working, thinking about changing agents, trying to find work......it's fucking depressing. And I don't blame the agents at all, it's not their job to do anything except aggressively and vigorously try to get each girl on their roster as much work as possible. And of course every agent does this, they have to, because they only make money when their girls work! I just think new girls need to understand that this business has ceased to be a full time job unless you have the ability to conserve, save, and understand whether or not you personally are marketable to the companies who are shooting. I consider myself a friend of Desi Foxx, she is a great woman who is super sexy and really fun to fuck. I think she has phenomenal work ethic. We worked together for Cougars In Heat, and it was a great scene. After that, she asked me for help on her blog, which I gladly did. She loves to write and it shows. I read her blog from time to time, and then yesterday, this entry really made me pause - BLOG ENTRY. Again, I am a Desi Foxx fan. I think she is sexy, I love her boobs, and she does good scenes. But lets face facts. She is 48, long past being able to be relevant in this business for anything more than a run of MILF and Cougar scenes. Again, once you shoot for those sites once, its over....they are on to the next MILF or cougar. She takes Naughty America to task for only shooting her twice and Ellie once I believe. I don't understand what difference 1 extra scene with Naughty America is going to do? The only women able to survive in the business over 40, run their own site and have financial backing from their husbands/significant others. Its easy to run a site when the money is just supplemental and not integral to survival. I feel badly for both mother and daughter, I like them both, and enjoy their company. But they just didn't understand how this industry works in it's current state. I wish them the best of luck, and I would work with either of them anytime, anywhere.
But here's something else to consider: is it turnover or is it glut?? In the 15 years that I've been following adult films, I have never seen the sheer number of releases and performers that I've seen in the last four years. I find it impossible to keep up with everybody. As has been discussed here in depth, I wonder, where is the overload point for the market, with a thousand gonzo titles released per month? I'm overexaggeriting of course -- it only seems like a thousand, but still.. So it's even harder for a girl to stand out from the crowd, and if you can't stand out from everyone else, then you're not getting call backs, not getting hits on the web site, etc etc, you might as well go home if you're not really feeling it. And that's another thing. I think too many of the women today are very careerist and not real libertines a la Nina Hartley or an Alexandra Silk. So they're not about to stick around if they're not getting paid like they think they should be. I'd like to some people in the business comment on this.
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29palms Deactivated User
16 Posts 9/08
Posted - Dec 1 2008 : 9:43PM
I really never paided much attention to the younger women coming into the biz [except Gianna Lynn!]. They have not really stood out compared to the veterans i.e. Gina Lynn, Julia Ann, Lisa Ann, Kylie Ireland, Shyla Stylez, Nina Hartley, Nikki Benz, Tera Patrick, Shay Sights and especially TERI WEIGEL - The Best Ever!. I always look forward to other icon's to come back [i.e. Janine, Cristy Canyon, Dyana Lauren, Michelle Raven]. Granted most of these Pornstar's haven't gonna the route of a prostitute yet, except Teri Weigel. These Pornstar's had a star quality in them that you just don't see anymore. They still seem to work based on there own choice. I always buy or rent there work, always. They seem to stand up to the test of time.
Its probably due the large presence of new annual talent the industry could be devolving that way > no more of that multi million dollar Jameson thing.
The number of releases increased starting around 1998-2000 when Red Light District, Platinum X, Zero Tolerance, Anabolic, Diabolic, West Coast Productions, Digital Sin, Exquisite (and later) 3rd Degree were developed. Evil Angel also started increasing their releases. I think Jules Jordan was responsible for this large increase of great productions industry-wide. The number of total releases has waned a little since the early 2000's. But now there has been a huge increase in online website releases (ie. Realitykings, NaughtyAmerica, BangBros.) with some great scenes. But it's still hard to find girls that did movies 18 months ago.
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10000 days Deactivated User
Keep on trolling. What a bullshit! Im fucking unstoppable now ... 717 Posts 3/06
Posted - Dec 2 2008 : 12:42PM
I like new girls as much as the next guy, but we've been spoiled. Surely the tried and true talents should be able to get more work, since they have proven their mettle for the stresses of the biz. Would be easier to weed out the newbie tweakers and the drama queens, who are a blight on porno anyways.
Hopefully christianx's careful calculus is not confidential and will soon be shared. In the mean time. assume 10001 releases/year (dvds months of website updates) average 5 girl days each (50005 girl days/year)/(365 girl days/year)=137 girl days/day this is surely high as -releases are down -many releases use fewer girl days -old footage gets passed of as new
Zoid, as a member of LA Direct Models, they post the total numbers of jobs on the wall of their offices every day. And I speak to Mark Spiegler, Lisa Ann, Kevin, and Joel on a regular and almost daily basis. So I can make a pretty good estimate based on that.
see this thread If any thing my estimate was high. there might well be 20001 woldwide In recent years there have been about 10000 us dvd releases christianx's remark was limited to LA and surrounding area lets wildly guess 69<average daily number of performance oportunitities for ladies in LA area<137 Next we can guess 1)The average daily volume of Human male ejaculate produced during the shooting of those scenes 2)If those ladies were instead employed library reshelvers how many books could they reshelve?
Yesterday, I found these statistics: http://www.internet-filter-review.toptenreviews.com/internet-pornography-statistics.html Basically, I think it's the same number, however, it mentions "title releases"/year, which I don't think includes numerous web shoots. And secondly, if you look at the graph, you can observe the steady increase in production (with minor fluctuations) over the years. So, if according to that data, there were 13,588 releases in 2005, I see no reason to believe that there were any less this year. In fact, there were probably much more. Of course, you have a point with all these numbers (if true) being for the entire US whereas Christian indeed speaks of Porn Valley. Still... I kinda have difficult time accepting that there are only 125 jobs on a given day. But what do I know anyway. Edited by - Zoid on 12/3/2008 12:47:38 PM
Here is another point to look at! The amount of niche's added to the market place has risen well above the turn of the millineum which in has opened doors for all types of women to be accepted for alternative roles that we would have never seen before. Over the past 3 years it seems that anyone with 2 tits and a heartbeat is called an adult actress and that takes up another percentage of available bookings per day. I had mentioned this before in another forum that I have seen a large number of new girls coming into this business to make ends meet or the quick buck ex: pay rent, keep loser boyfriends around for a ride, in between jobs, etc. and you can tell just by the way they present themselves upon arrival. First look at their hands and feet! when you arrive with chipped nailpolish or dirty finger nails or narly feet and toes what kind of example are you setting for yourself? then the suite case opens and it resembles the likes of a wrinkle grenade just exploded! and thats even before we start rolling tape! now the performance comes into play right? it sure does! How will a new girl coming to set can even consider to be taken serious? no less being on the cover! OK , so now the girl starts with AH, I think Ill do B/G for awhile, huh? then 3 months later after being shot by 30 studios and phone stops ringing you will get an e-mail saying that so and so is now going up the corporate ladder and NOW DOING ANAL! ok I can dig that! but then she shows up and has every excuse why she cant handle it! and now you lost a scene because someone just needed the money to pay the rent that month! It has happened way too many times and thats why girls that come in and rock out a scene consistantly will be the girl that stays around as long as she likes! Just an observation!
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Knuckle Kids Deactivated User
287 Posts 4/08
Posted - Dec 3 2008 : 10:27PM
Or maybe, just maybe, they show up in LA thinking that they are going to be the next Tera Patrick and money, fame, and stardom are just going to drop at their feet after doing a few scenes. When this isn't the case and they realize they are little more than a piece of meat, they bolt.
Well I suspect women like Tera & especially Jenna Jameson probably give some of the other newbies unrealistic dreams of fame and fortune. Given the sheer number of films being made and huge flocks of women wanting in, I always figured something had to give. Only so many jobs to go around as Christian has said. I've always felt there were way too many films being made since maybe around 2000. It created a glut as someone else said. With a weak economy, and yes it does affect porn too, and productions eventually slowing, I guess some are finding there simply isn't enough work to go around. Will it be better in the long run, with the better talent finally getting their chance to shine and better all-around product being put out? I guess time will tell.
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Porn Scout Deactivated User
3735 Posts 10/02
Posted - Dec 4 2008 : 2:08AM
I've been saying there was a glut for a long time now. It's obvious and it happened when the industry moved from features to Gonzo. Along with that switch came the rise of the internet, which makes distribution cheap and easy. Basically, making porn has gotten so inexpensive that pretty much anyone can do it, which they do.
Christian- Do new girls usually just walk into an Agency looking to do movies or are any new girls found at strip clubs? I love it when strip club girls turn to porn. Of course, the long-time hardcore performers (Katsumi, Monica Sweetheart, Jane Darling, Sandra Romain, Laura Lion, Julie Silver, Kaylynn, Katja Kassin, Jayna Oso, Alicia Rhodes, Liliane Tiger, Alexis Amore, Vanessa Lane) with many movies under their belt are now retired or on the verge of retiring.
You couldnt be more wrong based on assuming real production houses are shooting cheap porn! the fact is production cost are at its peak! on the other hand the inferior porn companies are producing cheap porn and selling for less which takes up shelve space in the market, which creates less space for the makers of quality adult movies! Feature to gonzo really has nothing to do with it since some gonzo production can run up to 20k well all said and done!
I like it. The cream will rise to the top. Girls who have star charisma, awesome performers, incredibly bodies, good work ethic and networking skills - I don't hear them crying and moaning about not working. They should be getting the jobs. It's these girls with average everything who seem to expect work to come to them just b/c they are willing to let a camera record them fucking. They need to go find work elsewhere. As for the girls who have put in a lot of time. Not everyone works forever. I would hope most of them are smart enough to know that for a female on-camera porn work has a limited time frame and that they were diligent enough to have prepared for that day. If not, I can't sympathize with an ignorant person. Edited by - savoy on 12/5/2008 12:23:42 PM
I can sympathize with them to some degree. A lot of us people not in porn did not get our lives fully on track before our late 20s. Maturity takes some time to... mature. Porn girls have a shorter time frame to plan and save than most other people, considering that some doors will be closed for them in the future. I'm not excusing stupid behavior but I'm just trying to be a bit realistic about it.
I was thinking of the long-time hardcore performers that rc7394 mentioned with years under their belt and time enough for anyone with a healthy dose of common sense to figure out it's not gonna last forever. Not the girls that are in at 18 and out at 20.
