Mythsong:
Maybe in terms of what book sections to put where in the store such stereotypes serve a purpose. My point is that such categories are so wide ranging (I like sports but not cars; I like scantily clad women but not violence) that no individual would ever consider picking themselves a book on such a classification. Nobody would walk into a bookshop and think 'this book must be suitable for me as it's aimed at men'. Similarly, assuming that you and your partner will like a 'couples film' purely on account that it is so labelled is more than a little optimistic.

SNP.

[Link]

This is not to say that we should all throw up our hands and do nothing -- but rather to emphasize that "idealism" should be rooted in firm soil if something strong, healthy, and long-lived is meant to grow from it.

Edited by - Bob on 5/5/2003 7:10:41 PM

[Link]

Take all the *lesbian* porn that us straight girls have had to watch. Please. We're bombarded with it, yet the only thing it has done for us is to wear out our FF button. In fact, we're more sick of it than ever. Enough already. I need to watch gay porn just to see some man-meat. Okay maybe there's a kink factor too, I don't know, but my point is that I think people are born either gay or straight, with very few *true* bisexuals. If anyone can find one, PLEASE put them bisexual porn because all of the guys who work in biporn are gay, and there's only a few of those willing to do that.

It's kind of a strange genre, that sounds like a great idea in theory but usually doesn't work.

[Link]

Hmmm. Ultra and I went over this a while back. He has some excellent articles, which my lack of search skills prevents me from sharing with you, discussing the biology of sexual preference. I don't know that we ever reached complete agreement, so I speak for myself when I say that I think that, to the extent that biology wires us up for sexual preference, bisexual is just as 'true' as either pole.

[Link]

The cultural bombardment that male children receive to 'be a man', and encouragement to turn sorrow to anger, are contributing factors to the rampant male homophobia in our society. The social unacceptability of males to show platonic affection for each other the way females do further fuels this. I rarely initiate physical contact with another male due to this conditioning. I could write a whole essay on the difference between male and female culture and how they shape our perception of sexuality. Experts do not always agree, and you can find a research paper to support any opinion you want (gotta love that foreskin thread). The apparent polarization of male sexual orientation prompted researchers to look for a gay gene in men but not women. Well, go do research on animal behavior, and look at many indigenous cultures before being wiped out or westernized. Homophobia is cultural, not instinctive.

Male fantasies being what they are, and male homophobia being what it is allow bi-women to be more out and keep bi-men closeted. Take a look at the swinging constituency. Getting back to the lesbian vs. gay content in adult films, look at the number of adult film actresses that claim to be bisexual, and the number of men. I don't know what the real statistics are here, but I perceive, based on performance, a larger percentage of women. If the market for bisexual male scenes in adult films picked up, I think the number of real bisexual male performers would increase to support it. I also suspect that the among the straight male performers, there would be the same percentage of bi-men as in the general population. Since there is minimal demand, and the risk to future straight work and image is great, we don't see them in bisexual male scenes.

[Link]

<shakes his head> is this a trick question or something? seems pretty simple...

j

[Link]

Fact: The overwhelming majority of bisexual porn is bought and rented by consumers of *het* porn. Bi's money comes mostly from het pockets.

Many think that gay consumers are the primary bi-ers because it's the gay studios that make most of the bi product. But that has more to do with the het industry's discrimination against performers in all-male films. It is the straight industry's own homophobia that keeps it from serving the bi niche. Harry and Harriet Homophobe don't want to perform a het scene with an actor with the "gay taint", let alone perform a MMF scene!

Of course, everyone on this board realizes the ridiculousness of this attitude. Everyone here knows that a performer's own private sexual orientation may be the exact opposite of the orientation of the scenes in which they perform. Everyone here also knows of the higher occurrence of condom use in the all-male industry vs the het. But don't feel dumb if you didn't know that most bi product is bought by straight consumers. There are plenty of store buyers and etailers that don't know this either. (Too much effort to look at their own numbers and marketing strategies, I guess. After all, masturbation makes you lazy.) Despite so much bi porn being placed in the gay section of the store (online and bricks and mortar), straight people still find it and spend money on it.

Take this lesson, studios, retailers and distributors: if there are boobs on the box, women-loving consumers are your target, no matter who else is in it. No matter what's between the boob-owner's legs. Stop cluttering up the guy-guy section with boobs.

Edited by - SueR on 5/8/2003 3:22:23 AM

[Link]

Be serious please, there are straight women (lots or few, i don´t care) who enjoy seeing girl-girl and women who hate it, like it happens with men. There are straight women who enjoy gay porn and others who surely don´t like it. What turns on each one sexuality is a matter of EACH ONE, not a matter of a group called "women" or "men". Porn is porn and producers and directors do what they want and what they like bearing in mind their public preferences too. That´s all. There are no conspiracies against women and stuff like that.

Once again, please don´t complain, don´t make the rest (men specially) feel stupid or guilty, search for like-minded female partners, look for money, create a producer and make your movies for women, but don´t attack other people´s freedom and tastes, ok? If you know female tastes so well the success will be 100% guaranteed. There´s nothing like individual initiative and will to change things.

Although when male or female directors decide to do movies to appeal "female tastes" (like if there was a unique female vision) it usually happens to be a big failure (for example Candida Royale) and female porn viewers still prefer gay or lesbian or "male" straight porn. Only a couple of facts: 25% of Hustler magazine consumers are women and one of each three "readers" of Penthouse and Playboy are women too.

PD: Nevertheless you can be happy because in this era of gonzo and IR black men/white women videos domain, girl-girl production is lower than ever and each time more separate from straight porn. Everyone can say the few girl-girl novelties the industry has done during past 2-3 years.
http://www.pexxx.com

[Link]

However, wrapping this subject back around to the first post, why are their lesbian scenes in straight porn but no gay scenes? What about the men and women that would like to watch an occasional gay scene in their straight porn? Even if it's only for balance. Do you deny that this is the case? Don't cop out and say there is always gay and bisexual porn. It's not the same thing at all, and doesn't answer the post's question.

[Link]

There really isn't anything to stop a retailer from making a "bi" category in his store that includes every movie with both/either MM and FF alongside MF action. I'm sure there are some somewhere who do.

As far as the industry, or even just the voice of the industry (in the form of AVN and the like), their male-gaze-centrism is an extension of our culture's straight-male privilege. In the porn world in particular, hetero men get the privilege of extending their definitions of sexuality over others'.

Rather, "anti-homo" in place of "hetero." Because it seems like the overarching "straight" male porn industry attitude is not necessarily one of "I define straight as seeing men with women," but rather one of "I don't want to see men with men." It's an old story, really. If one defines one's own sexuality as having control/dominance/degradation of the "other" (woman), then seeing men "degraded" in this way disgusts. To witness one who looks like "subject" being treated like "object" fucks with one's brain.

It's an extension of a man's self-hatred, really: "Men are disgusting. Why would anyone (except those I want to degrade or dominate) have any desire to put their mouth on one?" I believe this is the attitude you find if you interrogate men who say things like "Heterosexuality is the natural order" or "It's God's way." This self-hatred, or body hatred hides itself more readily in men behind egocentricity or narcissism, which are really forms of self-protection.

Women openly talk about our body hatred, so it's less masked: "My daddy fucked me, so I hate my genitalia." "My mommy told me fat people don't get loved, so I have anything on my body that looks anything like fatness."

Many men fear the concept of having sex with another man because they're assuming that the other man would be thinking just what he himself thinks:
"Suck this, you dumb bitch."
"Take that, you worth-less thing."
"I can't believe you're letting such a horrible thing enter your body."
"I'm using you to get my pleasure and I don't care what you want."
"Let me pour my hurt, fear and frustration into you."
"Fuck you." aka "*I* fuck *you*, not the other way around, mmmkay?"

Heterosexual privilege allows hets to hide behind phrases like "I just *like* the opposite sex, that's all." "It's natural, that's all." "It's biological, that's all." That's why there's such a search for the "gay" gene, because heterosexual privilege demands scientific proof of the inevitability of its *own* sexual choices. Heterosexual privilege wants to hide from deep analysis into its own existence. Heterosexual privilege does not want to be given up because of the benefits endowed. Heterosexual privilege knows its on top and doesn't want to give up that position because it knows intimately, from a first-hand pov, what the Topdog thinks of the Underdog.

[Link]