The notion that porn is appealing because it features as young girls as possible makes my skin creep. I think this feeling is shared by many in the general population in the UK. Personally I would be happy with a 21 lower age limit.
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Eric381 Deactivated User
What are you looking at? It 2452 Posts 3/05
Posted - Apr 1 2005 : 7:09AM
Yup, and the right to die for their country in war, too - which I think is a much less civil answer than fucking for a living. :)
I think the drinking age (and gambling, for that matter) should also be 18.
Bring it on...
[/quote] Do people have the right to vote with 18? [/quote]
But I don't think it's better expecially when I see that you all are concerning about girls and not males , that seems a little sexist to me it seems that GIRLS cannot think enough when starting porn but boys yes to allow tho women to begin this career they must wait to be 21 , i don't think so.
Besides I think that rising adult age (or the age for something as well) is a way for the worst.
About the other part in your quote it's not mine and hurts me too
EDIT No offence we're discussing and that means that each one of us can discuss my mainly concern about that is that we all remain into civil manners , i believe in freedom there's no offence in having ideas different from mine.
Edited by - Laurie Cameron Fan on 4/1/2005 7:30:58 AM
I'm just being honest. I think there's a lot of hypocrisy in this - I wouldn't treat my dog the way the girls are treated in some of these films, yet we all watch them, we all enjoy them, and then some people get on their high horse and say they're concerned for the girls' welfare. I'm sure these feelings are genuine, but if you buy the movies then you're complicit in what happens to the girls, so I think it's best to accept yourself and live with it.
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Eric381 Deactivated User
What are you looking at? It 2452 Posts 3/05
Posted - Apr 1 2005 : 7:56AM
No, I think this discussion is more about "the right" to do something based solely on your age, which after-all is only a number. Not at all the "comparisons" between those rights. If you can be drafted for war (or join on your own will) at the age of 18 in your country, you should be able to make other such rational decisions that will effect your life in the future - positive or negative.
Like the fact that I get carded to buy a pack of smoke until I am (or look) the age of 27. WTF, over?
Paying trib-ute to SinncentVanSage 1412 Posts 12/04
Posted - Apr 1 2005 : 8:03AM
I hope you didn't get my last post wrong. I DO care about the girls and I don't want them to end up with problems of any kind but I don't think this is connected that much with age anymore when you're allowed to drive, to vote, to drink, to get fried on an electric chair, to vote for/against drunk drivers being fried on electric chairs and to go to the other end of the world and kill people to defend your country there (Laurie Cameron fan inspired me) I think there is a certain possibility for every single (or engaged) woman in porn to have emotional problems later (maybe even for the guys when they realise they would have been at least equally paid as the girls in almost every other industry). I'd say we either must ban porn completely or live with some negative aspects it brings. But I can tell you it's not that easy to live with not getting laid ever, and probably watching porn avoids greater harm than it causes in such a case. I'm attracted to young girls and that doesn't mean I'm a monster, it's just nature's way of showing men that women are ready to get pregnant. Society wants me to deny that fact but I'm a honest guy, sometimes even to myself. I am sure laws are necessary there, and I will not have or watch sex with underaged people but I won't say I'm completely disgusted by 15 year old girls either. So being called a criminal for having sexual fantasies involving 18 to 21 year olds would be a bit too much for me.
Well i'm not that involved with young girls , i mean i'I'm not looking for girl which seem teenager i like them when found of course but this isn't my favourite cup of tea.
Porn actually may affect stars lifes or life of their children (imagine a schoolmate who says i know your mother takes a lot of cum my father says she's an asstaking whore or a doughter at the college "are you like your mother ?show me how you can take this deep in your throat and swallow all my cum") And what about their parents? Neighborhoods which call their father hey dude look at your daughter here she's taking 2 big black dicks up the ass right now while sucking another o man what a slut,c'mon get in and see her on my tv) I think a pornstar MUST think those things before beginning their career. Besides pornstars who live among pornstars and speaking about porn all the time may lose contact with reality and think the other part of the world is like the one they know. It is NOT.
But knowing this and be able to decide to accept or not are different things
Juha, while you may have a good point in your original post, from what I see, you can be a matured 18 year old woman who makes decisions based on thoughts and you know that you have to live with the consequences, or you can be stupid with 18, 21 or any age.
Maybe some girls are to young to know what they are getting into, but in my limited experience, porn talents know what they do and care or not care about the results of their decisions, it's their own business. I have never met a porn actress who was thrown into the business against her will no matter how old she was when she started.
Sadly enough, the girls that are drug addicted or in other trouble and/or the assholes who force young girls into porn don't care if they are 16 or 21 anyway.
O.K. then what age do you consider the right age for all these things?
Oh wait, let's do a different approach. "Service guarantees Citizenship", kill arachnoid warriors at Klendathu and you you are prepared to fuck befor a camera.
Younger girls are often physically more attractive than older women.
Younger girls are often less emotionally mature than their older counterparts.
I personally - like many others - find the younger girls in porn more appealing. They might be making a big mistake by getting involved in porn at 18. Maybe it would be better for them to have been made to wait until they were 21. Maybe it wouldn't make a jot of difference.
Maybe some type of system whereby proper, focused, counselling could be given would be a good idea for those getting involved in the industry. Who would fund such a system? I've got no idea. Would it be beneficial? Maybe, if the above were helped to be made properly aware of what they were getting themselves into.
Paying trib-ute to SinncentVanSage 1412 Posts 12/04
Posted - Apr 1 2005 : 2:19PM
So true... no one must be forced to do porn and I hate it when it happens, and those who make it happen don't even deserve to be honoured as "assholes" in my opinion. Even if the girls are 100 years old that may never be accepted. But I also think a girl is able to make decisions at the age of 18. I was always told girls are more mature than guys of the same age, and from my point of view this is true, at least as a tendency if not as a general rule. I also heard girls are more sensitive than guys when it comes to sex so I'd say a girl doesn't just walk innocently along the road with a sudden thought coming to her mind "Man, I want to do porn. Let's get implants and phone some director tomorrow."
By the way I'd be glad if there were no implants in porn industry anymore. I love natural breasts so I would profit supporting a law that forbids implants. But as long as girls are willing to get implants why should I try to forbid what turns others on big time? Of course there's always a risk with that dratted silicon and that makes me sad but no one forces girls to get a boob job, or that one would be below assholic again. And I just have to look for a "which porn stars' tits are natural" thread and focus on movies starring these girls.
I have to agree but someone who tells his neighbour his daughter were a slut probably forgets that watching her doing these things makes him exactly the same slut as he thinks she is. So he's one of those I'd call an asshole if he improves his behaviour a little bit. (I am aware of the fact I'm much more of a slut than the porn stars I watch because they do something for me while I just do something for little Vince.)
And to make something clear I DON'T have a bunch of movies starring 18 year olds. But I don't like the idea of not being allowed to change that someday.
The film is good popcorn, the book is an easy read entertaining and thought provoking.
You said No, offence, Laurie, but all these comparisons to voting In the words of the movie: "When you vote, you are exercising political authority, your using force. And force my friends is violence. The supreme authority from which all other authorities are derived."
In most Western societies people are given the right to vote with 18. But somehow they should be cuddled not to have sex in front of a camera, drink alcohol and so on?
Another Heinleinism: TANSTAAFL - There is no such thing as a free lunch. If society thinks people are ready to vote they must have the right to fuck up their individual lives. If somebody fucks up his/her life because he/she can't make the "right" decisions, well, too bad.
The "comparisons" to "voting" are not comparisons, but consequences.
A society, which grants the right to exercise political authority and does interfere with personal decisions concerning one's private life, is near totalitarism, making the right to vote a farce .
Totalitarism - Under a totalitarian regime, the state controls nearly every aspect of the individual's life.
Well Zartyr it seems you know very well Heinlein's thoughts or better his carachters thoughts, well man i really ADORE all his books i think i have almost the whole stock.
And you understand exactly what i said the one who votes is adult enough to do everything he want even to waste his life
I think that we've had a number of interesting points on the matter. I think it would also be really interesting to see if we could get an informal poll and opinions based on their personal experiences in the industry. Is 18 too young? Should the age be 21? I'm going to start another thread and their comments, us fans for the most part have our thoughts and intentions but until we get screwed in the ass in front of a camera for millions to see we can't call ourselves experts on the situation can we?
Paying trib-ute to SinncentVanSage 1412 Posts 12/04
Posted - Apr 1 2005 : 4:30PM
Well, I can enjoy masturbation only porn very much but of course that's not the point here. It's illegal for an adult to act sexually towards a 17 year old girl be it in real life or in front of the camera. I'm okay with that. I just don't want to make it illegal for 18 to 20 year olds, that's all.
Actually in many states the age of consent is less than eighteen. Ohio is 16 for example, New Jersey 17, New York 16. (See Age of Consent,com). This only applies to off-camera sex, mind you and does not apply in certain circumstances, (e.g, guardian-teenager sex and other exceptions).
Paying trib-ute to SinncentVanSage 1412 Posts 12/04
Posted - Apr 1 2005 : 5:13PM
Thanks for the info, I wasn't aware of that. It's 16 at my place but I thought it's 18 in the whole US. We live and learn... What about a poll for renaming the US into the "NSUSAA" (not so United States after all)? Juuust kidding... oh, I mean adultering, of course... at my place law can be at least that confusing, too.
But age of consent 16, age for doing porn 18 sounds really fine.
Now to something else: I just saw it is illegal for homosexuals to have sex in some US states. I knew about homosexual marriage being illegal but can you really get fined or even jailed for homosexual activities? I hope not...
I'm in favor of the minimum age being even higher than 21 years old. I suggest a 24 or 25 age requirement. A woman isn't a woman until she's through with college or turns 25. That's just my two cents.
I think a girl can be 18 or 21 when she enters the adult world.. but when it comes to the girl making certian decisions it has to do with her being immature and naieve in and some cases pressured by agents, girls need to know a little about the industry before just jumping in head first and then hating life afterwards.
there are to many people that just see the dollar signs at first and the after effects dont really register until it is "too late", i think there should be some sort of "boot camp" like mentioned before, just to show a little more insight to what goes on and how things are done?
will this ever happen though? , i doubt it..because a lot of people want the "young stupid" type of girls, they are easy to convince, will do anything for money usually and a lot of consumers want the barley legal girls to play along with the fantasy.
luckily i had some friends in the industry before i ever entered and was able to see some things first hand, i may have jumped in when i was on the verge on 19 but i have lots more insight in to how things work the world due to my own past experiences.
hopefully some of the people do open their eyes and look past the quick buck they can make and THINK about it first before they go around saying porn ruined their life etc.. i like to think of the industry as a good opportunity. meet new people, make money, have fun, travel and be able to try new things..if you use it the right way it can be good for you, if you go about it wrong..you will probably be unhappy with the out come.
that means a 13 girl or boy is considere enough aware of life to have sex with other people of same age but if an adult interact with them that's considered a violence because of different experiences that make the youngest too vulnerable to suggestions
normal age of consent is 16 but even in that case parents of the sixteen may file a claim and will be a judge to say if there was a forcing or a suggestion or if it is minor own will usually judges take help of psychologists but to have any sexual contact with an under 18 is a great risk except of course for barely legal people , no judge will condemn an 18 to 20 boy or girl for having sex with a 17 yo partner but even an underage cannot have sex with minor of 16 this is always forbid except between under 16 themselves.
Another part of italian laws says that an Italian citizen MUST RESPECT this law all over the world if someone goes abroad to have sex with minors in so called "sexual tourism" then will be prosecuted lot of people had benn condemned because of this mostly for going for minor prostitutes in Thailand, the only way to avoid a trial is to change citizenship .
I'm not sure but laws like this are in other european countries , i'm not sure i like this global jurisdiction but in that particular matter I can accept this but I doubt i may agree for any other crime
Edited by - Laurie Cameron Fan on 4/2/2005 12:19:18 AM
I believe that the age of sexual consent in the Netherlands and Spain is 12. I've sometimes wondered how is it that we can all very much generally agree on things when it comes to certain crimes (eg. robbery) yet differ to such an extent on issues like these? Must be down to different cultures....
I don't know it'll be useful if some users from the Netherlands or Spain likes to answer here but i think that if a 30 YO man goes and have sex with a 12 YO Girl or kid will be prosecuted in Holland and in Spain either
But I think we're going a little off topic
Edited by - Laurie Cameron Fan on 4/2/2005 3:45:58 AM
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Luvvy Duvvy Deactivated User
228 Posts 5/04
Posted - Apr 2 2005 : 8:01AM
Are you religious and located withing the US by any chance AsianP? (this can affect your opinion)
We all know about that widespread American TV on the human form is prudish compared to Europeans (Jacksons nipple slip that caused a national outrage, we went "is that it?") We have national papers with topless Page 3 girls available at newsagents, again all exposing the beutfiul female form ;-) if you're brainwashed into christian right viewpoint basically you will become a prude and cloud your judgement and enforcing your viewpoint on others.. personally I find male gay sex disgusting, but if they want to do it that's fine...I certainly wouldn't say "gay sex should be increased to 25 year old or totally banned" which looks like it has in certain US states. So much for "freedom"
I find the US gun laws age being lower than alcohol laws stupid to the extreme. If you can vote, then you should be allowed to have straight or gay sex either in personal life or on-film, and not be controlled by a fascist religious zealot. If you want to raise the age limit, why not ban sex except for reproduction purposes, then maybe bring out death penalty for gay/lesbians..
And if you can go over and kill for your war mongerer you should be allowed to have sex of with two consenting adults (gay or straight) in your "free" country, unless that conflicts with a certain way of life that is now or he would like it to be "illegel"
Paying trib-ute to SinncentVanSage 1412 Posts 12/04
Posted - Apr 2 2005 : 9:29AM
I don't think AsianP is that brainwashed, he's an ADT member after all. But I think I know what you mean. I'm not fond of gay porn, either, and neither would I ban it by law though I'm not totally unreligious. Of course the Bible speaks against homosexual relationships but one of the basic thoughts of Christian belief is that in the beginning God created man (women included) and gave him the right to choose which way to go. So how can man by means of human law take away a right God gave him and call such an action religious? What about God saying "Vengeance is mine, I will repay. Don't take law in your own hands."? (Romans 12, 19)
So why do we need laws at all? Just because free will should stop where it cuts free will of others.
In Canada the age of consent is 14... But I guess that really has nothing to do with porn...
Although in Canada nothing, not one single thing, is illegal until 21... Several provinces have the drinking age set to 19, but that is to prevent teens in high school from drinking.
As for the 21 age in porn... I would disagree with that. I don't see that there would be any less turnover of the performers if they started at 21... And I've only seen a few (Allie Sin recently) who have publicly stated their regret for their decision.
I don't think the likelyness of regret has anything to do with their age, but their motivation to get into the industry... Several performers I know of have stated that they do it to put themselves through college... Now will they have to wait until they are 21 to go to college, because their choice job to pay for it isn't available to them?
18 year old are more then mentally capable of making big decision... In fact most early teens have just as much mental capacity to make big decisions as people in their 20's or over... And just because you are in your 20's doesn't just automaticaly make one a wise "all knowing" person...
Come on, Luvvy Duvvy, playing the “fundamental christ”-card is really ridiculous. After all, we all love porn.
How about dropping any legal age to enter porn? Girls become women with the menarche biologically. Since you don’t care about their mental state and like to stroke your meat to as young as possible chicks I suggest the menarche as the only requirement to do porn.
absolutely not! we're speaking about age of consent if a girl may have sex and have a boy at sixteen since to grow up a boy requires much more care , common sense and mainly requires to be aware of much more matters a way more than doing porn, why she ain't be considered aware enough to shoot some porn at 18?
This is THE QUESTION but you're putting it on the fact that since some of us like young girl is the same as he likes kiddyporn , it isn't like that.
If an IDIOT begin to shoot porn without any consideration of consequencies this is not a reason to raise the age, and if done that age must be raised for all from driving license to age for being a volunteer or to get married , it is a dangerous idea to put under laws the limit of free decision when those decisions aren't illegal , are we raising the age to buy porn to 21? the age to watch at a movie rated M at that age either? People are not mature the odd days and kids the even days.
the only choice is if a person is adult or not at 18
Yes or not , tertium non datu
Edited by - Laurie Cameron Fan on 4/2/2005 1:05:36 PM
Laurie, I don’t think you’re into kiddyporn. My last posting was kind of an exaggeration because I was really pissed off by LDs statement.
But I think its to easy to say: “She’s adult at 18, that’s it.” People get the active right to vote at 18. But the legal age for the passive right to be voted to be president or chancellor is much higher. It’s one thing to have sex in your private life, no matter if straight or gay, no matter how nasty. But it’s a totally different thing, to have sex on camera for the public audiences, to have sex for money in an industry which really rips you apart if you don’t beware.
It has no matter we're speaking about active rights what you can do at 18 voters of president or whatever are 18 too .
Passive right are different because the elected one must decide for many others depending on how big is his district so he or she neeeds to be much more experienced than an 18 but in most countries an 18 can be elected for parliaments and this is really odd if a representant of her electors have to decide about porn but can't do it or watch at because is too young
age doesn't means that an idiot will become a wiseman it means that an idiot will become an aged idiot
Paying trib-ute to SinncentVanSage 1412 Posts 12/04
Posted - Apr 2 2005 : 7:10PM
Just to be on the safe side, I'm NOT into kiddyporn either, I even deleted the first Gauge movie I downloaded without knowing her because she looked so young I wasn't sure whether she's legal or not. I had a bad feeling about it, and only when I knew she's legal I could enjoy watching her and realized how much I'm into that girl.Walter-alert! (Reason why I edited)
And juha though I don't agree with you about age policy I want you to know that your care for the girls honours you. I myself hate to see a girl in pain or discomfort independently of her age but I love to see female orgasms that are not obviously faked. And well, I also love that when the girl is only 18 years old. I can't see anything wrong in that unless in a sight that would make watching any kind of porn look basically wrong, a sight I don't like over-much.
Edited by - VincentVanGauge on 4/2/2005 7:14:26 PM
Article 247 of the [Dutch] Penal Code " 1. A person who, with a person whom he knows to be unconscious or physically unable to resist or to be suffering from such a degree of mental defect or mental disease that he is incapable or not sufficiently capable of exercising or expressing his will in the matter or of offering resistance, performs indecent acts, or who, with a person who has not yet reached the age of sixteen (16) years, out of wedlock, performs indecent acts, or by whom the latter is enticed into performing, or submitting to such acts, out of wedlock, with a third party, is liable to a term of imprisonment of not more than six years or a fine of the fourth category. "
[...]
Added 03-2002: There was some discussion on your pages regarding possible new developments in the Netherlands.
First, the statement that the AOC is intended to go up from 16 to 18 is incorrect. This is a confusion with one of the following changes that did take place, or are planned to take place in the future: * Since October 2000, it is a crime to have sex with a _prostitute_ under the age of 18. * There are plans to increase the age under which pictures that contain a sexual behaviour are _child porn_ from 16 to 18.
But despite these, there are no plans to raise the general AOC to 18 (at least not in the Netherlands, see below).
There are changes in the Dutch laws to be expected. Especially, the current 12/16 will probably be changed to a flat 16. It has been approved by parliament earlier this year, but I think that this was an approval of the principle, not of an actual law (the abovementioned child porn law change is part of the same packet). Still, I fear that the 'complaint delict' will have only months to go.
[...]
The age of consent is 16. Prosecution of adults for sex with minors between the ages of 12 and 16 only occurs upon the filing of a complaint by an interested party.
"The age of consent is 16. Prosecution of adults for sex with minors between the ages of 12 and 16 only occurs upon the filing of a complaint by an interested party."
It seems that in the Netherlands this law is similar to Italy's law on AOC except that in Italy no consent is admitted between an aged from 13 to 16 and an adult all people can file a claim in that circumstance not only the interested parts
Edited by - Laurie Cameron Fan on 4/3/2005 3:36:28 AM
Well with all the iternet and forums/newsgroups someone young should write a book/post/letter or something to give young girls understanding what could happen and what porn is all about. This age issue is kinda weird since porn is legal but no EtOH until 21.
That would all be nice but the world isn't like that. Fact is that when a girl decides to do porn, she has to live with it and what society throw at her for the rest of her life. She needs to know and understand that. Would she at 15?
You choose to make laws that punish the girl, repress her sexuality and restrict her choices. Your laws reinforce the views of those prudes who would make her life a misery.
I would rather make laws to punish the bigots of society, prevent them from committing their acts of discrimination, and publicly ridicule them for their attitude.
Have you ever thought things like : That bitch! or What a slut! That is a big whore?
if not then your point might be considered , if you did it's an ipocrit position , you have not to be a bigot to discriminate a woman , remember I've never heard those kind of things on males we can fuck all the time but no one will discriminate us for that.
Edited by - Laurie Cameron Fan on 4/5/2005 2:48:59 AM
I have never in my life criticized women in that way.
For me, the word "slut" would be a term of loving approval, but I don't use it because I know some women see it as hurtful and degrading.
I love women who are sexually assertive, know what they want, and go out and get it whenever they want. If my girlfriend wanted to have other men while she was with me, I would be completely open to the idea.
My attitude is the right one, the caring one, the fair and equitable one. Society's attitude is wrong, and must be changed.
Showpiece 2 - review by Captain Jack
Posted - Apr 1 2005 : 6:46AM
