I wait one more month, I think, but than I will start to panic...and I hope other porn consumers will exercise all their wallet pressure to find new hunting grounds for talent scouts.

[Link]

Talent budget today for 6 scene/ten male and ten female tape: $12,500 ($1000 + $250) x 10

35 = 25 x 1.4

New gonzo budget: $17,500

Difference: $5,000

Why you don't have to pay:

In a highly competative market suffering a dirth new faces, one where the consumer values new talent above all else ("I will start to panic") a video featuring fresh meat stands a good chance of blowing away the competition and selling more than enough units to make up the additional production costs, while putting even more money in the producer's pocket.

In fact, he can problem take a piece at both ends: By your own words, you can't wait a month or two for a crop of new girls who have forgotten or are ignorant of the HIV incursion. I bet you'd pay an extra dollar or two for some fresh new faces right now. In another month, maybe more than a dollar or two. Now Mr. Producer is getting a bigger volume and a better price!

Kennedy's quote is "The chinese charactor for crisis is danger and opportunity" Seems to me there's an opportunity here. A cash-rich studio (presuming such a thing exists) could seize this moment and use their financial stregnth to become the premiere source of fresh young faces. As their numbers rose, other studios with less cash on hand would be hard pressed to keep up. The rich would get richer, and the poor would switch to flipping burgers or selling real estate.

There's another chinese saying I like; this one's a curse:

May you live in interesting times.

-T.C.

Edited by - TonyC on 6/10/2004 5:49:01 PM

[Link]

It's an enigma. A girl can make 20K in a month, yet you might as well throw all that cash into an incinerator cause by the end of the month, they still won't be able to make rent, pay cellphone bills (all of us directors know the ridiculously short lifespan of a cellphone for pornstars), or dog food for their malnourished chihuahua.

I'm sorry to say, but some of these girls are brand spanking new adults who have never seen money fly into their wallets in their lives. They think their pussies last forever in this business. They think the work will keep on coming like the initial avalanche. Then directors move on to the newer, fresher pussies. Or they don't have the mental stability to last or to diversify. For every Ariana Jollee, there's a crackhead who inhales all her money. For every Selena Silver, there's a dummy who doesn't know the difference between paying rent or shelling out $3500 for her unemployed boyfriend's new rims. For every Nautica Thorn, there's a girl with horrendous credit, huge IRS bills, and a cellphone living on borrowed time.

It's simply an amazing phenomenon.

Chico

[Link]

On another note, I have to say there is alot of money to be made in this business if you have the talent. Most of these directors making 40K a year working for pennies deserve it, as do those directors making 400K a year. It's all based on the economics of how their talents translate into profit. The same is true with any industry where the laws of the marketplace determine worth.

The adult entertainment industry is a tremendously profitable industry if you're aware how incredibly widespread it is. It does not involve just video but also satellite, cable, Internet, etc.

There is a tremendous hunger for the top companies out there for qualified people. How else can you explain some of these idiots who linger in the industry going from job to job to job to job and demanding respect when they still don't know how to clean a camera lens? Yes, in some lower echelon companies, you are going to get directors replaced by the owner's uncle's stepdad's sister's nephew. That's only cause they're pushing their 700 units out the door and pushing product and marking them down to $2.00 a DVD at the end of 8 months for catalog prices and distribution trades.

I hope that this gutter industry can have a little bit of luster and start bringing in some new talent with new ideas on a very old premise (penis goes inside orifice, viewer masturbates). This industry needs more high quality competition and an injection of new life.

Chico

[Link]

Honestly, I thought myself that most women work for 4-5 years, until I saw all the posts in the Star forum about "What ever happened to....?". Even when Mike Quasar once made a post about the average actress having a career that lasts 6 months, I thought he was making one of his big jokes. I see now that he wasn't all that off the mark.

The funny thing is that the male performers, at least once they get somewhat established, do seem to have careers that last several years, or more. I'm surprised when I go and check out iafd.com, and find plenty of actors who've been in 600+, 800+, or even 1000+ movies. And these aren't guys who are Rocco Siffredi caliber, either.

[Link]

-T.C.

[Link]

Geez... I have a lot of catching up to do on this thread!

A quick thank you to Quaserman, Mutt, and Max Booty or your kind words. I always appreciate hearing comments like that. :)

To catch up on what I have been missing...

The primary advantage of a corporation is NOT financial; it is to eliminate personal risk. A sole propertieship is the second most dangerous form of business that you can take simply because if your business is sued they can take everything you own personally. Now while a porn girl who does 5 shoots and disappears will never need to worry about that (and won't make enough money to justify the cost and requirements of a corporation), a girl who is going to diversify her income through a) movies, b) websites, c) feature dancing, d) a store, e) appearances, f) endorsments, g) directing, h) her own studio.... This girl has a HIGH degree of risk that she should carefully consider. In other words... a girl who is building a career and a financial future.

It isn't only about how much money you make; it is about how much money you keep. There are two parts to keeping your money and assets, right? One is paying less in taxes and Two is not losing your money through lawsuits (or the threat of them).

Corporations can be a pain in the ass. But they can help you keep everything you work so hard to go get. That is exactly why OJ Simpson is still living life as a millionare even though he lost a huge settlement that he will never pay. If a sole propertier lost that settlement, that person would lose everything.

The other thing we keep missing here.... the idea of a having a company is that a company earns... then it spends whatever it can legitmately and legally spend as a expense.. then it pays taxes on what is left over.

In other words, running a smart business allows you to buy things with pre-tax dollars that other people buy with post-tax dollars. That means you get .30 more per dollar than they do to spend.

And, yes there are several other tax advantages a corp has over a Schedule C than just health insurance (and the tax law is changing for Schedule C heath insurance anyway to help those people out more).

You take about self-employement tax and FICA, etc... Except you only pay that on earned employee income. That is the difference that the girls in the biz who haven't been exposed to proper financial planning are missing.

They go and buy a pair of 7-inch heels (granted a small example) and then don't take the steps to treat that as a business expense. Or here is a bigger one... They go and buy a $15,000 car with their own money. Which takes almost $20,000 in employee money to buy. They don't set up a company where as part of their officer contract they get a company car, which the company either leases or buys for $15,000 in pre-tax dollars.

But the biggest issue is still liability. The higher you get on the food chain, the more you have to protect yourself.

I would NEVER direct a movie where I am contracting with other people and accepting all the liability that comes with that without the legal protection of a company. Lawsuits have changed the way Americans (and increasingly Australians) have to do business.

Just because there haven't been enough 18 year olds sophisticated enough to figure out how to manipulate the system in the porn world doesn't mean it isn't coming. And, after having seen the legal paperwork and the legal steps that most producers take in this busines.... if I wanted to initiate a fradulent lawsuit (which I will NEVER do), I know how to instantly manipulate the system and score millions of dollars from most of the porn companies. And, one day a girl is going to try...

Many of the adult directors and studios are not careful enough in this area. Luckily almost all of them are incorporated so the most that girl can do is break their company - they can't take their house.

I have stories I can't tell you about girls close to me - well-known girls - who were ready to quit the business because of how low and used they felt until they woke up and realized it wasn't them...it was their agent. Wonder why some big name girls leave their agents?

I want to stress that I also have stories about girls who rave about their agents. However, it isn't mixed... It is almost exclusive which agencies the girls rave about and which ones they learn to hate.

Interesting, huh?

I don't mean to bore people with my thoughts... but, I am feeling an increasing drive to actually spearhead something that will give porn girls a way to use the business to set up the rest of their lives instead of being used by a business that throws them away as soon as they are used up.

I have an idea I am toying with... AND NO IT IS NOT BECOMING AN AGENT.

I was not meaning to imply or defend the use of sub-standard equipment and putting out a shoddy product. I hate a product like what RonK is talking about. And, I would LOVE to have the budgets to use the equipment that TC is talking about.

Ultimately though, here is another part of the business that is escaping our attention...

The consumer is not the one that decides if they will pay a particular market price for a product. It is the porn distributor who makes those decisions for you.

See, if I want to make this twice as expensive movie desperately believing that the end user will buy it... they will probably never see it. Because I won't be able to sell it to the distributors who sell the movies to the store. I am out of the game before it even starts.

TC needs to convince the distributors, not the directors. The directors are the ones that would LOVE to have the bigger budgets, the fancier toys. Are you kidding me? Tell Quaserman he now has a $50,000 per movie budget and he would JUMP at it, and he would probably make a movie that looks twice as good as before. But, his studio Zero Tolerance would not be able to give him that budget because the people that buy their movies are distributors. Those distributors wouldn't buy it.

I am with you on crusade TC! But, go after the distributors first.

RECRUITING NEW GIRLS IN PORN

1) That the overall market demands a constant supply of hot, new girls.

2) That there is a shortage of hot new girls entering the business.

3) That the shortage is caused by the recent HIV scare.

-----------------------------------------------------------

1) That the overall market demands a constant supply of hot, new girls.

It is very easy on ADT for a minority opinion to express itself loudly enough that it makes it seem like it is a majority opinion.

For every person who only buys Red Light District videos because they insist on only watching brand new girls there is someone else who doesn't buy those movies because they say they are too hit and miss. Yes, they are always new girls - but some of them are just not good performers.

I wonder why Joey Silvera decided to stop shooting his New Girls line and focus on his other 2 lines (both of which he uses experienced performers for?).

Personally, I perfer a girl that kicks ass in a scene and a director that makes her look different because his/her movie is different from everyone elses than to see a girl I have never seen before who is a lame fuck.

And, you no what? That is the beauty of life. We are all allowed to have our own tastes and we should all acknoweldge we are differnet. I respect people's rights to their own tastes. If you tell me that you don't care about the quality of the sex all you care about is that you haven't seen the girl before and she is hot... more power to you.

Why do the Vivids and Wickeds and Playboy's make so much money??? They are the opposite of churning the fresh meat through the door. On the contrary, they hold on to their talent and use more expereinced (and usually older girls).

They have chosen to play in a different market. If I am a hardcore gonzo studio and the only place I make money from is DVD sales (I am saying that loosely, because of course they make their money from other areas as well) then I am forced to play the game with either a) all new girls all the time or b) kick ass performers who turn in great scenes.

And, there are customers who will buy only kick ass scenes and don't mind if they see Ariana Jolie for the 200th time - they like her. There are also customers who only want to see a girl they have never seen. Both markets work.

If you play in both the hardcore and softcore market and are making your money from DVD's, cable, internet, licensing, then you need to rely on hot proven girls. Different market.

I am not convinced that you have to rely on new girls every week to make it in this business. In fact, I think it is a double-edged sword. Yes, you will win the fans that demand a fresh face, but you lose the ones you think your product is shoddy because your sex is bad.

And, lets be honest here... a girl doesn't really turn into a porn star until 25-50 scenes... I know I didn't and I know talking to all my girlfriends in the biz they feel the same way.

I know everybody markets "So and So's FIRST ANAL". Well, I got news for you. If you watch her 50th anal - she will be 1000 times better than that one. :)

But... let's make that assumption anyway: the market must have brand new girls all the time.

2) That there is a shortage of hot new girls entering the business.

I guess this might be true. A fan would not be able to tell this for a couple of months still because movies are in the can for so long before they are released.

I know that Chico Wang could contribute to that answer and the agents would have a good feel for it. It is interesting to read Mutt's comments because I think (correct me if I am wrong) that he makes his living off of shooting new girls for other people.

Let's assume there is a shortage.

3) That the shortage is caused by the recent HIV scare.

Chico Wang mentioned the ebb and flow of the business (whch is a natural factor in every business). But, I would find it plausiable that there are girls who are more aware of the risks right now. That would scare some of them away, sure.

So, what is the solution?

TC has proposed a smart analysis: a) raise the reward; b) lower the risk; c) wait it out; d) change your business model.

A) Raise the Reward

I am with the people suggesting that raising the reward won't make the difference.

A girl who won't do it for $1k won't do it for $1500 either because she has decided that money is not worth her health or life.

TC has suggested raising it to an extreme level - perhaps $3500 for a scene. That would get some girls on the fence to committ - sure. But... we are back to the financial reality of porn:

You can't pay each girl $3500 each per scene and make a profit on your movie that will cover all of your fixed expenses.

Simple math. The distributor won't raise what he pays you - so you have to keep your budget in line with that requirment. Again, this decision will never get made by the consumer... it is made by the distributor.

So, lets rule out a) raise the reward because porn economics and the razor thin margin for an individual movie rule it out.

B) Lower the risk

That is the answer right there, my friends. Simple. Ask yourself this? Why does Vivid, Wicked, and Playboy get the hottest girls in the world? Why do they get girls who won't do gonzo? Why does gonzo not get those same girls?

There is less risk. If you tell some of the condom only girls who work for Vivid that they have to not wear them, you will lose them.

We all know how our world works: the hotter a girl is the more choices she has in life.

In porn, the hotter the girl the more exceptions people will make for them. Those girls aren't willing to accept the risk of no condoms, so they so no.

If porn went to condoms, you would see a rush of a much hotter group of girls into the business.

So why won't the gonzo market do it?

Some of that is old school personal taste. Some of it is porn economics. See if I am the only one to shoot with condoms than I will sell less. The best estimate I saw was that condom porn sells 30% less than porn with condoms.

The only way that everyone would go to condoms is everyone else did. Until then, no one is willing to take that 30% hit. (Remember, the old razor thin margin thing?)

So, lets say that porn won't lower the risk either.

That just leaves us with two options:

a) Wait it out; or
b) Change our model

The only thing that intrigues me: in none of the previous bouts of HIV did the industry become the center of national media attention. The internet has changed everyone's world, including the porn industry.

How much of a difference will that make? Only time will tell...

Selena Silver

The COMPLETE Selena Silver Movie List
Selena Silver Yahoo Group for Fans
Selena Silver's ADT Porn "Pick of the Week"
Selena Silver's KSEX Weekly Radio Show
Selena Silver's Radio Show Forum
Selena Silver Booking Info for Directors

[Link]

As to my plan for Mutt to become the unrivelled fresh new face supplier for only a modest investment in talent fees. I really have no idea. As we've both pointed out, too many assumptions. If his assumptions are right, it sounds like it might be a good plan. But it's probably safer to just sit and wait for people to forget.

-T.C.

Woah, stop the presses!

Check out the AJ-SPX800. DVCPro50, 2/3" chips, 4:3/16:9 switchable, 24p, 30p, 30i (they say 60i, but that's bullshit), and it's all solid state recording. But here's the beauty part; it lists at less than $19K. Figure a street price around $16K.

Now we're back to a mere $133/video for a rockin good picture!

Edited by - TonyC on 6/11/2004 6:07:49 PM

[Link]

But as Selena so wisely says, it's not how much you make, (or even how many expensive pair of shoes you write off,) it's how much you keep. Buying things simply because you can finagle a ~30%+ tax subsidy is not a formula for keeping more. You'd be better off paying the tax, and puttiing the remaining cash in the bank.

Moreover, as we were all reminded in the Tyco trial, while the goverment might look the other way when it's fancy dinners or theater tickets that are in question, the government gets upset when people try to convert corporate assets into personal assets (no matter how good you look in them, a pair of fuck me pumps is not an asset).

Yes, a corporation can pick up a lot of the knick knack. It can even pay for your car (so can a sole proprietorship). But the only way to pull meaningful amounts of cash (that's what this is all about,right?) out of a corporation and put that cash in your pocket is to pay taxes on it.

-T.C.

[Link]

That being said, I know a grip of people who can't even fathom these basics. They don't know how to book without trying to get their dick sucked, they can't cast cause of a poor relationship with the agency or bounced checks, and they can't shoot cause they don't own a camcorder and nobody will lend them one.

Camera work is easy if you stay steady, frame the shot well, and follow the action.

Booking is easy if you know the agencies, know the girls, and get along well with everyone.

Directing is easy if you have an idea about what you want and can capture it on tape particularly when you set the tone on a set.

What's so hard about this?

It boggles my senses that there are a lump of directors who can't even grasp these basic tenets. It's amazing what you can accomplish with just a modicum of intelligence in this business. I'm a fucking idiot and I skate by easily in this arena. It's almost too easy.

For every great director like Jules Jordan, there's some idiot director who snorted his entire budget up his nose. For every great director like Sal Genoa, there's some imbecile director who waited the last day before deadline to shoot and had to cast straight from the corner crack house. For every great director like Steve Holmes, there's some goofy doofus who owes a shitload of money and is hiding from those he owes.

Regarding the money aspects, there is so much out there if you're responsible, talented, and have a decent reputation particularly with talent.

Most of my income comes from the Internet, believe it or not. Although this video directing is no floozy either.

If a fucking drunk beach bum like myself can generate a decent income, anyone can.

Chico

Edited by - Chico Wang on 6/12/2004 7:06:25 AM

[Link]

About ten years ago I was working for a "director" when I was hit by a revelation - "This guy is a complete fucking moron idiot scumbag and he's making a lot more money than me!". Not anymore.

Needless to say, I wised up and experience coupled with the aforementioned common sense has enabled me to do pretty well for myself since then.

This ain't brain surgery. Actually, this job requires almost no contact with the human brain whatsoever :)

Quaze

Edited by - Mike Quasar on 6/12/2004 9:21:43 AM

[Link]

And, more importantly, are directors aware of this? My impression has been that the directors are in a race with each other to see who can shoot an actress' first anal, DP, DAP, etc., but not necessarily a good anal, DP or even DAP scene, just the first. By and large, they don't want to have the seventh or eleventh DP that someone has done, even if she feels more confortable doing it by then.

That's a good point you make about the vocal opinions of some fans here on ADT. Though it seems for every person who's clamoring for more fresh faces, there another person posting, "Why can't I find any more scenes with So-and-So? I was just getting to like her. What happened to her?"

[Link]

here's one of them, Paige

[Link]

She is in "Young as they Cum 15", "Breakin' Em In 6", and Lethal Hardcore's Interracial line. I can't remember the title of that last one. I really like her. Just saw "Breakin 6" today. She's great in a scene with Sean Michaels. However, it is one of those things where I am reminded of Alex Devine's appearance in "Breakin Em in 4." It took Alex quite some time to develop into the nasty girl completely comfortable in front of the camera that she is now. I hope the wait with Paige is not as long but she is still real good for a brand new girl.

Kelly

[Link]

how long ago were these DVD's released?

[Link]

Does anyone else think Mike Quasar is far too modest and self-deprecating?

Oh well, it makes for funny interviews in his movies most of the time!

Edited by - Recondite on 6/13/2004 4:28:02 AM

[Link]

Paige is nothin new really.

[Link]

"oh......so this is Paige's second tour of duty in Pornoland? i didn't know that, I thought this was her first go around.

how long ago were these DVD's released?"

I figured you probably did not know that Paige had all ready been in videos. Usually here at ADT the girls you give us a heads up about are ones we have to wait several months on to see their videos, like Madison. However, these are at least very recent releases from Paige. "Breakin' Em In 6" just came out last week while "Young as they Cum 15" came out this past Friday. The interracial video she is in for Lethal Hardcore, "Big Black Beef Stretches Little Pink Meat, is around a month old. She's also been in "Biggz & the Beauties 8" and "Teen Sensations 8."

A cute new girl I think might be good is Kirsty Star. Haven't seen her pop up in anything yet.

Kelly

Edited by - tscfan317 on 6/13/2004 3:54:58 PM

[Link]

i just posted a brand new Asian girl named Veronica in the Star Crossed forum. Asian girls aren't my thing but she's very cute.

[Link]

Do you know if Paige is a girl here to stay or is she a floater? Considering that she seems to have all ready made two short tours of the companies and sites I am afraid that she might be a tourist...like Brianna Blaze. Then again, Felicia Fox worked for quite some time while still living in Ohio and Avy Scott seems to be working now while actually living in Florida. So, I could be completely off and the girl who films in spurts on her sporadic visits the Valley is more common than I think.

This gets back to part of the conversation. I hate how short lives a lot of these girls careers are now. In the past, I became a big fan of girls like Jaden, Nyla Thai, Mia Parks, Briana Blaze, and Melody Max only to see them retire right as they were starting to get noticed by fans. So, though I am one of the annoying ADTers who is always yiping about some new girl the truth is I often would rather see more of all ready established ones. If this cutie Paige is to be around for a while then I think I could be a big fan of her's. Facially, she reminds me of an even cuter Aspen Stevens and physically she reminds me of Eva Angelina or current Alex Devine. I like her. But as with all other new girls I am weary she could be gone just as fast she comes. Then, my money would have been better spent on watching Avy Scott in new scenes or more scenes from the aforementioned girls who retired prematurely.

Also, I saw that pic, Mutt, of the new Asian girl in the Star Crossed. She is cute but to be honest she doesn't do much for me. I just generally don't go for Asian girls, with starlets like Luci Thai and Avena Lee being big exceptions.

Kelly

[Link]

anybody know if Brooke Milano has shot for anybody recently? there were rumors she was coming back.

i'm sure we'll shoot that Krista girl though it would be nice to have some better photos of her.

[Link]

if you're an actual ass-doctor or partner at skadden you'll still be making more than 400k in 2017, that's 2 centuries in porno years. the comp companies might still exist then, evil/rld aren't safe bets when you consider they're more novelty and prosecutable for obscenity, have no adam/eve or cable value, and their ownerships. maybe guys like jules who were rising stars won't have a short half-life, but the next big thing and short memory of most fans could mean they've got viability that translates into 40k a year in residuals and diminished sales pretty fast.

"rich" people subject to dry periods of income due to constant executive recycling the real estate market isn't supporting development have to make more than that to be considered rich, every major city has thousands and thousands of lawyers, doctors, small business owners, small-time landlords, consultants, etc. who make that like clockwork for 40 years. that doesn't even start to include finance, if you're still an l-banker at 37, even at a third-tier bank, you're making over a million a year just for surviving to partner and there are hundreds of bald guys you wouldn't recognize and their own funds who could buy steve hirsch out a few times over.

team. i'd say guys like carriere, hirsch, and the rest with major companies or distribution tentacles are actually worth something translating into "rich". still, there might be a dozen in the us industry making what the 2nd pitcher on the yankees or red sox does

400/yearly is great money, but when you look at how many people are worth a million dollars in this country and what the 499th person on the rich list could liquidate at, porn doesn't look like the goldmine avn inflates the figures to be. you're bright and have a degree from a pretty good state school(kidding-east coast ammo for snow and lack of consistent methamphetamine distribution to sustain a nucleus of blonde and troubled girls)--you've sat in class with lots of people making that or at least had the kid with a ferrari and obscure royal lineage from yemen found at every reputable university. this is a rich country with a lot of rich people, porn is a lousy way to get rich.

[Link]