- what is 'a video': specify signals origin
- default screen refers to 'TV-only'-screen, without external signals, ie. unconnected leads from video- or DVD-player?

Have you tried connecting the DVD-player by other means (other output or other DVI-cable)?

It's not a direct DVI or Sony related problem, to my knowledge

p_n

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Thanks very much!

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So I suppose there's either a problem with the DVI cable (unlikely, right?), a problem with my HD televison accepting the DVD player's HDMI up-conversion, or a problem with my particular player's HDMI up-conversion function.

Any idea which explanation is most likely correct? Or if I'm missing something entirely?

Thanks!

<sp>

Edited by - bob on 8/11/2006 7:56:32 PM

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try DVI again after switching of all picture-processing parameters (eg. video upscaling / motion-adaptive processing / pull down processing / BNR / ...)

did you try to have the TV set make a manual search for a connection?: sometimes it sees more than one DVI input, when in fact there's only one (second is a 'shadow', and is of low(-er) quality)

about the cable; please don't steal anything , but try this cable in an other set-up (friend / shop / ...)

but first
- see to it that the DVI-cable never anywhere is close to and/or parallel with a power (110V) cable
- when not, connect powercables of TV and DVD-player to same power-outlet

Success,

p_n

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I'll try out your suggestions and report back about my success or failure. Thanks for taking the time to give me advice!

Much appreciated!

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p_n

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Bob, are you using an HDMI to DVI adapter? or does it use DVI instead of HDMI?

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Bob's DVD-player uses the HDMI standard to be connected by DVI-cable with the screen. When the cable isn't to long (not, say, above 8 ft.), this should function well.

Bob: your cable isn't of the 'long & slender' variety ?

p_n

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Should I try connecting with a 4-foot Monster Cable instead? I'd have to buy a new one, because none of my friends are videofiles (at least not to my knowledge).

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What brand is your TV-screen btw.? As HDMI is, strangely enough, not a 100% documented and agreed up-on standard, there's always a small chance electronics of different brands can't communicate properly through it. Don't go into panic mode now, let's first see what the small diagnostic tests from the other posts will do.

p_n

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Thanks again!

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By now I've a strong suspicion it's the DVI cable to fault. Let's see what your testing of it results in. Probably a good idea to have it changed regardless of the results.
Try a different brand cable, and the shortest length possible for your setup (eg. Phoenix Gold HDMX-520DVI / PureAV AV52400, both comparable with Monster brand-wise, or Kimber Cable's DVI to HDMI which I use myself).

You're maybe advised to buy a signal booster (eg. a generic Gefen HDMI superbooster), but when the cable isn't OK there's no need to boost the signal.

Of course you could use component cables; then you know you've a working set-up. To me this would be a last (not by definition bad) solution.

p_n

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If you were currently asking "I'm thinking about getting an upconverting DVD player and need an HDMI/DVI cable. What do you recommend?" I'd probably tell you to order online from Bluejeans cable or MonoPrice (both of whom are affiliates of the AV Science forum.

But, since you're in a trouble shooting process and are already dealing with Best Buy for the DVD player & the cable and you have already indicated that you could go down to a 4 ft cable if necessary, I would strongly recommend going from the 8ft Monster Cable that you're using to the Acoustic Research 6ft DVI/HDMI cable.

I'm not sure of which of the two Monster Cables you have bought. But the less expensive of the two is more than double the price of the Acoustic Research cable and the Monster will not provide a better picture than the Acoustic Research will.

Use the extra $60 to buy DVD's.

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I've seen differences, and am not indifferent, so I disagree with Bill on that. But that's besides the point in this thread I think.

p_n

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Cheap implies poor quality. Bluejeans uses Belden components and state of the art assembly equipment. You will not find a better cable than the ones that Bluejeans sells. Yet, they cost approximately 1/5 the price of Monster Cable's lowest priced cable.

Why? You're not paying for the marketing, ridiculous commission to sales people or the insane markup that he store charges.

Paying $120 for a cable in order to connect a $150 DVD player to a TV is insane. And, as Bob has experienced, spending that $120 doesn't guarantee that you get a good cable. At $120, every one of Monster's cables should be tested for defects. But they're not. Monster would rather spend that money on marketing.

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Bill: there's no need to convert anybody here IMO. I've ordered two Bluejeans cables, just to have a look at it myself: thanks for the advise.

As I'm working in the high end audio/video branch myself for years, having seen and heard the differences between available electronics/accessories many times, I know it rarely happens a client making comparisons does not see/hear differences too. Maybe they're to small, or indifferent in quality, or just not worth it money-wise, but that's sales pitch.

Did you do any comparisons already? Just listen/watch, and choose what 'feels' best? Reading this thread I expect you're able to decide what's manufactured well. But what's delivered by the product, not to what it looks like itself, is important. Try and compare some. For fun.

Enjoy

p_n

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No change. So the cable isn't the problem.

I re-checked and re-tested per pinc_noiz's other suggestions. Again, no change.

All I can say is "YARGHHHHHHHHHHHH!"

I googled the Gefen HDMI superbooster, and apparently it costs about $200. Even if it would do the trick, I'm not going to spend that kind of money to eradicate the "wave" problem caused by a $150 Sony player.

So it's back to BestBuy today with the DVD-player in hand. We'll see how they respond. At least I can tell them that I've done every conceivable test to rule out other factors.

I'll let you all know what happens.

On the plus side, I've learned a lot about DVD-players and equipment connections that I didn't know before.

I'm sincerely grateful for everyone's help in this thread, especially pinc_noiz's!

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Succes

p_n

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Once that transaction is complete, go to the other side of the store and buy a new DVD player.

I don't think that you will have to go through that. Best Buy knows their return policy and will just likely offer you a new one (especially since you purchased a Best Buy warranty).

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However, when I went back to BestBuy yesterday and asked them to repair my player, the Service Department (not surprisingly) advised me that Sony doesn't bother to fix DVD-players within that price range and that I should therefore simply grab a fresh box containing the same model. However, instead of giving me a completely boxed unit, which I could have returned later for a full refund or a different model, they cut open the new box and gave me only the new DVD-player.

I came home, connected the new player, and -- guess what? -- it had exactly the same problem. Now I know conclusively that the "ghost wave" is the result of a design/build defect inherent in the model itself.

So don't purchase the Sony DVP-NC85H if you want your HDMI up-converter to work.

I'm taking the Sony player back to BestBuy today and plan to walk out with either a different (non-Sony) model of DVD-player or a full refund.

Wish me luck!

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Success

p_n

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--------------------------------------------------------

Bill wrote:

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I wrote:

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Bill wrote:

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Before returning the Sony player, I went back to BestBuy today, purchased an $80 Phillips HDMI player, came home, hooked it up, and . . . same problem. It WAS my television all along. And it works so well in every other way! More fool me. Now I'll have to investigate how much it will cost to fix whatever is wrong with my TV's DVI input.

The people at BestBuy took back the Phillips without so much as a raised eyelid. I felt like a complete and total idiot then -- as I do now.

Thanks for all your help, guys, and sorry for the wild goose chase.

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Before you start jumping through hoops, you might want to check if this is a common problem with your TV. Take a look over at the AV Science Forum. Find which ever one of the Display Device forums are appropriate for the type of TV that you have (I'm assuming that you want the "Direct View Displays" forum) and do a search on the model number of your TV.

You might find that this is a common problem for your TV and, if so, they might also have the solution (one of my DVD players had a problem and I found the firmware upgrade to fix the problem at AVS).

Good Luck.

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p_n

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Sometimes, when there is a known problem, a company will extend a warranty for that problem...if the person knows to ask.

Sometimes a problem is as easy to fix as "open the back of the TV and turn a screw 1/4 of a turn".

My point was that, if this is a known problem and there happens to be a known solution, it will be found at AVS.

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Turns out there's a [invalid URL removed]27-page thread there about this problem. Apparently, the problem stems from a design defect in Sony's DVI board and they subsequently developed a replacement board.

My 3-year warranty has run out, but I may be able to get Sony to pick up the repair tab on this basis. An authorized service technician is coming out to my place on Thursday and I now have a case file with Sony's customer service department.

I'll report back.

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More specific, on the Series-2 HDMI cable (named in this thread):
1. made from Belden-branded cable, but actually no-name low-cost industrial UL20276/85445110 cable made in China at an 'Av Link' factory
2. Belden does not sell UL20276/85445110 to any other specific audio/video-related clients other than Belden-related companies, but mainly to electrical appliances/telecommunications/chemical related industrial clients

The reason is simple: though it does meet the TMDS criteria (HDMI/DVI is based on and part of that), it does not meet those of HDMI/DVI. To put it simple: some signals (eg. wordclock and data-width) are transported by cable screens instead of having their own cabling.

After using this 'Series-2 HDMI' cable, I think:
1. If price is of prime importance, you probably can't buy anything better
2. If you can't notice any quality improvement after trying other cables, then BlueJeans 'Series-2 HDMI' is a good choice too

The BlueJeans 'Series-2 HDMI' cable, tried by me in 6 different A/V sets, delivered a picture that had a quite red-ish colour temperature with slightly crushed blacks, giving an overall monochromatic feel. There was a slight motion blur and quite some softness in detail during scenes with steady motions; when reproducing fast-moving pictures, it showed some heavy edge enhancement in trying to add thin white lines around (artificial / blocked) hard edges.
Soundwise it has some limitations in dynamics, and the soundstage lost some definition; highs and basses were slightly overdone, lacking in body and texture. Overall sound was grainy and kind of sterile.
Build quality was higher than to be expected for the price, functionality was high: in all sets used, it worked flawlessly (positive side effect of having this incomplete wire-set?).
Measurements taken via (and on) my Pioneer's ISF-C3 calibrating software, taking grey-to-grey measurements, showed a loss of 'response time' (not the correct word, but marketing did learn us some ...), with measurable pixellation in dark colours and grey shades.

Together with the HDMI cable, I ordered BlueJeans Cable LC-1, BlueJeans Belden 1505F and BlueJeans Belden 1694A (all interlinks) in 3ft length and with BlueJeans-standard connectors. There was some clear family resemblance here: grey, lacking in texture, cold, far from natural (knowing one cello from an other, in colour and space, was absolutely impossible). Only the 1505F I would use when nothing else was in reach.

Overall, 'try for yourself/trying before buying' is the key word here. Try all you can get, including BlueJeans's, and make your own conclusions.

p_n

PS. I would like to emphasise, that writing this is not an attempt to brake down Bill's opinion's, but a reporting on my experiences with equipment advised by him. For me a standard, educational process; I earn my living in the audio/video-electronics branch, and every experience with equipment new to me is functional. I've thought hard posting this, but having seen given advise in public space, I thought it of no problem reporting my experiences on given advise in that same public space.

All remarks and questions (relating this post or others) are welcome of course, on this board or by e-mail (shouting, pigeon; up to you).

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Does your television support Progressive Scan technology?

You say that your tv is 3 and 1/2 years old, so I am assuming it doesn't.

I may be wrong on this, as my tv doesn't support Progressive Scan, but I believe that for HD DVD machines to work to their full potential, you will probably need a tv with Progressive Scan technology.

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The follow-up on a side-note of this thread was posted today. I saw no other place fitting to post.

When I did confuse you, I apologise.

p_n

Edited by - pinc_noiz on 10/7/2006 7:01:01 PM

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My DVD machine is a Cobalt, made in China. It has Progressive Scan technology, but, as I said, my tv doesn't.

I suppose you could say I got lucky when I purchased my DVD player. It only cost AUD 100 new, and does plenty of things that the more popular and expensive brands don't.

It's region-free, supports mpeg playback, plays any and every type of compact disc, and every format of DVD I have tried with it works.

She's a real little beauty, my Cobalt.

I'm thinking of upgrading soon to one I have seen on ebay that also supports divx and xvid formats.

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Thanks for the suggestion, though!

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Recently 'cumwhipper' told us [invalid URL removed]about Oppo: new to me also, but as 'cumwhipper' was ([invalid URL removed]and is ...) very glad owning own, I ordered two different Oppo's myself. What I saw of them till now surprised me positively. Not always is the price-tag the sole indicator of quality.

p_n

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Which Oppo models did you buy and what are your impressions of them, including each as against the other?

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Right now, Oppo only has two models. The [invalid URL removed]970 & [invalid URL removed]971 (although the [invalid URL removed]972 is coming soon). They have a comparison of the two players on [invalid URL removed]their website.

pink_noiz,
Nice report on the Blue Jeans cables.

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Yep, as said, I've two Oppo products here, to get an idea of their products. The [invalid URL removed]Oppo OPDV971H player and the [invalid URL removed]Oppo LT-2007 LCD TV / DVD player combo.

They do know how to make 'build to a price'/quality product. Although I'm no technician, I can see light-plastic cog-wheels and sliders in the OPDV971H that make me believe shortened lifespan, but looking and using the machine now, results in a presentation beyond the price-tag. The LT-2007 combo has a mechanical noisy player and a low quality screen; maybe they've some troubles starting up production / QC'ing, but this one is not to recommend at this moment.
Especially the combo machine had me interested personally: I was in the process buying some minimalistic, TV+sound, setup for the girls last week. I rather pay more while reasonably expecting quality (in build and functionality), so I bought them a [invalid URL removed]Linn Classik Movie integrated movie/music system, with [invalid URL removed]Metz Talio 26 LCD-TV and [invalid URL removed]Tannoy Arena 3.1 speakers (chosen by the girls, mainly on looks ). Working flawlessly.

p_n

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Then I waited . . . and waited . . . and left a phone message . . . and waited.

Finally, I went to the repair shop in person today. The owner said that he'd just spoken with the Sony rep, who suggested (surprise!!!) replacing the DVI board. The owner ordered the new board, but it will take 3 weeks to arrive. It'll cost me about $300 for parts and labor. As you predicted, Sony won't pay a dime, even though it was a pre-existing product defect.

I'll post again when the new DVI board is installed to let you know whether it actually fixed the problem.

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p_n

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One of the things that I've tried to do with recent equipment purchases, and would recommend to others, is to test all of the connection methodologies, whether I intended to use them immediately or not.

For example, when I got my HD DVR, it came with HDMI, which I didn't intend to use with the TV that it was connected to. However, I checked it using a different TV that has a DVI input. A year later, I got a new TV in the den and started using the HDMI output. As it turned out, a lot of people had a problem with the HDMI output on that DVR (although I wasn't one of them). I would have been pretty pissed to get a new HDTV and not be able to use the digital input.

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p_n

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