"Vegetarianism for me is about saying ‘yes’ to things - even meat." - Coupling

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I'll try to make a correction to the review when I get a chance.

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"Vegetarianism for me is about saying ‘yes’ to things - even meat." - Coupling

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Again, it's interesting hearing Jessica talk about these kinds of things in the commentary. She touches on sometimes having frustrated directors because she wants to get off, and what she has to do to do it "wouldn't look as good on camera". That's the trap of features though, I guess. Sometimes perhaps they're so fixated on what looks good, they leave some of the really interesting human moments on the cutting room floor. Porn--such a tricky balance somtimes. Anyway, the commentary is worth listening to because Jessica seems like an intelligent woman who likes her job, and she just has fun talking about it. It was fun listening to her.

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For all of her brashness and boldness Xana (from our current project) was relatively subdued when she had her orgasm. Her eyes rolled slightly and her body shuddered, but if you weren't clued in, you'd probably miss it. Her response was nothing like the catterwailing the passes for female pleasure in most porn, and even her own lover had to ask her if she came. Figuring out a way to tell the audience, "Yes, she did come" in a way that was both cinematically engaging and erotic has been one of the trickier parts of editing their scene.

With men it's easy, show the pop – we all know what that means. Trying to find ways to convincingly depict female pleasure is far more difficult. How do you convince the audience that what they're seeing is real? "Real" in the context of the fiction might be good enough for a mainstream film, but porn requires a higher degree of (percieved) veracity.

Perhaps this is why so many gonzo companies dispense with female pleasure. Better no plot/acting than lame plot/acting was genious break through. Maybe they've come to the came conclusion about female orgasms.

-T.C.

Comstock Films:Real Life, Real People, Real Sex

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Truly though, I can suspend disbelief. If they convinced me it happened, and I wanted to believe it, then it happened. That's all I know. I still applaud the effort that some make at at least trying to convince me, even if much of the time, they don't succeed.

Hell, when my wife has an orgasm it's pretty fuckin' obvious... but I still ask her to make sure. And, there's nothing wrong with that. :)

Edited by - MLyons on 3/22/2005 10:17:54 AM

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In Ashley and Kisha: The Right Fit Kisha talked about what a revelation it was to be finger-fucked by Ashley (Kisha's first and only lesbian lover). Even as the person experiencing it, the best Kisha could say was, "She just gets all the right spots all the right ways."

How do you show something like this? There's the look on Kisha's face and the squishy wet sound of Ashley's fingers stirring around in her cunt, but beyond that there's just not that much to see or hear that lets us know something special is happening, that Kisha is experiencing level of sexual pleasure that she's never had with anyone else.

They only way I know how to handle it is to try and establish Kisha's character as a truth-teller; to make the audience believe in her and believe in the things she says about Ashley's fingers in her cunt. While it works on some levels, this approach has liablities of it's own.

-T.C.

Comstock Films:Real Life, Real People, Real Sex

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"Vegetarianism for me is about saying ‘yes’ to things - even meat." - Coupling

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-T.C.

Comstock Films:Real Life, Real People, Real Sex

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But seriously, I thought it tied in because you're talking about the complexities of showing female pleasure. I just took it another step and removed the guy from the equation totally.

"Vegetarianism for me is about saying ‘yes’ to things - even meat." - Coupling

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In fact, it's really no different from what Mrs.C and I do in our own bed. It's "over" when both partners have decided they've had enough, and the way that they tell each other seems to be pretty universal; whether it's men fucking men, women fucking women, or men and women fucking.

One point of satisfaction; Brett and Melanie have done a little "real S.F. lesbians" type work, and Melanie never has trouble getting off in front of the camera, but Brett has always felt obligued to fake it for the benefit of giving the scene a "proper ending". Not so the day they worked with us. First Melanie straddled Bretts big black cock and rode herself to a screaming orgasm, then Brett put Melanie's legs over her shoulders and ground away to an orgasm of our own!

-T.C.

Comstock Films:Real Life, Real People, Real Sex

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(Dammit Walter, here you go again. Cracking stupid jokes instead of staying on topic.)

OK, OK. Orgasms and porn. I could write a lengthy essay on the subject, but I won't.

(Why not?)

Because I already did so:

Of course there is. In case (very slim chance) anybody is interested, you can read all about it in this thread.

(And yet, you are off topic Walter!! This here thread is supposed to be about the Wicked release One Man's Obsession . Do you have an opinion on that?)

Well, apart from the quip that one man's obsession should be another woman's orgasm, I don't have an opinion on that title. I haven't seen it.

(What!? Haven't you only recently braged in this very same forum about having seen all porn videos in existence?)

Must have been another silly quip?




Diceman said:
"I dare you to watch these videos and not stroke yourself silly."

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(Oh no you won't .)

And , yes , by 'we' one is in fact referring to oneself in the third person . One's regal nature has become clear to one over time . So henceforth one should expect to be referred to as Majesty , - or at a pinch - Master . Why fight it anymore , that's one's philosophy !

Lee : somewhere chugging from the big bottle .

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(In that case, I am Abbott.)

Oh yeah, why?

(Cause you are fat and short and dumb!)

And more popular. And more funny.

(So what. At least I am the 'straight' man in this operation.)



cv said:
"These polls are getting weirder and weirder every day."

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In addition to the comments already made here on the subject of real vs. staged orgasms, I think it is important to remember that sex in porn films needs to have a structure; it is a like a narrative story, and to be satisfying, there should be a beginning, middle, and end. This is nothing like the sex Tony mentions, which ends whenever both parties decide they've had enough--natural in life is meandering and unfocused in porn. In porn, we need a script, with clearly identifable parts, each of is usually signified by some device and action than fans are used to, combined with a correspondingly familiar sequence of camera shots and angles. So, for example, the camera always shows the female body first, or oral always starts a scene (and we like to see this in profile, or POV, perhaps), or sex always follows a certain sets of positions and shots, or the male pop shot always ends it, signifying closure. Although many fans complain about the mechanical nature of porno sex--and how tedious the same sequences and actions and positions become in every single scene we watch, these things are the stock bits that the most porn sex is made of, and they are the ways in which most directors choose to shoot the action. And fans, for their part, like this approach because they need some sort of discernible structure to expect and follow; it is part of the satisfaction of this highly artificial entertainment medium.

Now let's think about this for a minute. One could say that the experienced viewer that Walter mentions here is looking for those moments or incidents in porn where this "script" of sex, either by accident or design, starts to fall apart, and something else unexpected happens. By contrast, the naive porn viewer might be frustrated by the same event. Example: in one scene I saw in a all-sex title by a major producer, the female was riding the stud's cock with great enthusiasm--and he came by accident. This was clearly not expected, and I could tell this by the fact that the girl (and we) didn't realize that she had taken her partner over the edge at first, despite his attempts to stop her bucking or pull himself out from under her to give her the usual facial cum-shot. As she pulled off of him, several strands of his load dangled out of her pussy in long strings; she started to laugh when she realized what had happened, her hand reaching down to check the flow of cum oozing out of her. In the conventional sense, the pop-shot here was ruined. But in fact, this was precisely what was so hot about this moment (which--and here is another part of this equation--the cameraman was able to capture). This spontaneous creampie was much better than all the "staged" ones we usually see.

Anyway, in this context, I think we can say that the female orgasm has generally been incidental to the narrative of the traditional porno sex scene--partly because it is not visual (and this is a visual medium, only capable of easily revealing those aspects of sexual fantasy, novelty, and transgression that can be revealed through the camera eye), and maybe partly because female pleasure has never been the point of a pornographic industry dominated by the gaze of males. Perhaps art imitates life here as well, since sadly too many women complain of male partners disinterested in pleasing them. Who knows? But there is little question that the tendency in the post-Max Hardcore world of sex films is to ignore female pleasure, or the pursuit of it, almost entirely. And the average female performer in today's porn seems quite complacent about this, almost viewing it as a relief (if she doesn't even want to kiss him, why would she want to share her orgasm with him?).

And then on the other hand, perhaps female orgasm will become (hell, already is) like every other part of sex in today's porn, commodified within a specific genre fetish--you need to seek out a particular line like "Caterwauling Pussycats" to get your fix (and usually those are with dildos or toys, not with live male partners, who for all their studly prowess, can't seem to get the job done themselves). We're not in Kansas anymore.

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Orgasms can have a lot of variation from woman to the next, from one session to the next, from one kind of orgasm to the next. I reckon I have at least three or four different kinds of orgasm each complete with it's own tell tale signs, sometimes all in the one session. I sometimes wonder if directors who are talented lovers themselves make better porn?

Lazerus wrote

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For me that's a huge part of the fun. I've seen plenty of women have orgasms, but I had never seen Khym or Tina or Jennifer or Desiree or Melanie or Brett or Desiree have an orgasm, and I certainly never had never seen them have the orgasm they had in front of me the day I filmed them. Capturing those singular moments, and knowing that I can share the magic of that moment in a way that makes the audience almost feel like they were there is a fantastic feeling.

-T.C.

Comstock Films:Real Life, Real People, Real Sex

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One thing Brad Armstrong can do is an effective tease, and part of that is that he makes wise wardrobe choices. It's always good to make the viewer want to see something before you actually show it. In this case, jessica in her variety of short skirts is awfully appealing.

I actually liked the tone of the movie. I think it was appropriate to make Randy Spears a sort of bumbling, ineffectual stalker, rather than a more believable one. It takes the teeth out of the creepiness factor.

As far as the sex, I agree that a lot of it looks great, with a lot of that trademark Armstrong feel, for good and ill. I like the well-dressed sets and the overall prettiness; i'm not sure I like the reddish tint he often uses to substitute for darkness. And I always like it when he tosses in a blowjob-only scene.

I say the sex is pretty, but I don't want to feed the prejudice of people who continue to claim that feature sex isn't hardcore. For one thing, jessica does anal in a three-way scene that ends in a cum swap with Avena Lee. I'm glad I can still say that I will never mistake that for softcore.

Four stars out of five.

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