^The only way the OP could do that is if he was a member of a majority of performers OF account and while some claim to offer a free versions. I suspect most charge money and therefore to offer proof would be an expensive endeavor on the part of the OP. He would have had a much easier time saying that the pandemic has killed anal because so many studios cut down on new production ort stopped completely producing new videos.
Indeed. It's easier and more comfortable for some to find a scapegoat than actually make the effort to demonstrate an assertion to be true. Even if it were in one's financial means to provide proof of their claim, I still reckon they'd blame all the problems they see on OF. OF has many accounts with terrible content but I'm curious on what basis it alone killed anal despite the fact that the resumption of anal scenes being produced on a business as usual basis by a decent number of studios now indicates it is very much alive.
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melonenom Deactivated User
62 Posts 6/15
Posted - May 18 2021 : 10:52AM
10 seconds anal is not anal pornstars being bosses=the tail wagging the dog
Somehow I doubt there are many 10 second anal videos out there so that is a weak argument. Now a few minute long anal videos that I can believe but the beauty is that none of us have to pay for them if we don't want to and you get the added bonus that performers who gouge their fans with exorbitant prices earn a bad reputation that sticks to them and that ultimately affects the number of fans they can get or retain.
I suspect that many performers went the OF route in the last year or so primarily because it was that or starve because studios significantly cut down on porn production and that's in an era where the productions are already low due to tube and torrent sites killing job opportunities. Whether many of them start to shoot for various studios is still an unknown but I think OF is victim to it's popularity with too many women and the market is simply over-saturated with models willing to get naked or have sex in front of a camera that few women earn more than pocket money by doing OF only content.
If a woman chooses to do a little bit of porn so that she can use that to promote her OF account than why not. If she chooses to go the all OF route then great because she was never going to be more than a blip on the porn radar no matter how hot she looked or how great her performance was.
I mean did you see Valerie Kay's 144p anal debut? He kinda has a point. I've been waiting for that woman to do anal for 10 years and it was beyond disappointing.
Ah, well now that sounds a bit different than the original post. If you're saying that OF scenes are taking away the pleasure of seeing your favorite star do anal for the first time, well I guess can't really argue with that.
If that's what this thread is actually about it's a no shit sherlock situation we have here. Onlyfans, and to the same extent Patreon, is complete shit as far as quality is concerned. But should you really expect much from something you sign up to with an absolutely zero preview of content & absolutely no timetable for any updates
Did you really believe that it was going to be better than it was because the clues were there that it was never going to meet expectation. I also can't help but point out that if it wasn't for OF then you wouldn't have gotten an anal video so you couldn't even argue quality.
That's so disrespectful. Why shouldn't the industry be run by the people who actually work in it. Without the women being willing to shoot porn, it wouldn't exist. Why shouldn't they make their own money instead of working for sleazy men who profit of their work.
Pornstars being bosses just means less exploitation and less women being pressured into doing things they don't want to do. The market will still rule what content comes out. If people want to see anal, girls will have to shoot it to attract/keep those fans but it will be their choice. If they decide not to shoot anal, they have that choice as to whether they are making enough money without doing it.
I find that we are actually seeing more extreme content on onlyfans as girls who are into stuff that mainstream porn sites won't allow, can now put this stuff out via direct messaging on onlyfans. There's girls like Kaitlyn Katsaros shooting puke stuff, golden showers, impact stuff including taking punches to the face that would never be shown in mainstream porn. She can instead build a small but fervent fan base on onlyfans and make a decent living on her own terms instead of some sleazy agent(pimp) telling her where to go and who to shoot with using the threat of being blacklisted and then taking a cut of her earnings.
You're going to have to explain A LOT more in detail why you believe "onlyfans killed anal", so far by your first 2 posts, you're not making sense at all. Please explain in detail how OnlyFans has affected the industry (when it comes to anal) in your opinion.
Do you have OF's analytics to back an apparent claim that every video with anal lasts for 10 seconds or that's the average run time or are you merely reflecting your limited viewing and paying experience? I agree that there are many crappy clips on some of the accounts I've seen but I don't assume that's the case with every account.How do you decide the pornstar is the boss? Jules Jordan, Manuel Ferrara and Bella Donna for example had been porn bosses for years and their porn (directed and starred) had been distributed via Evil Angel. Jules Jordan went on to found his own company and still works as performer, producer, director and distributor. Why didn't you bitch about that? How about the porn performers who have/had their own sites independent of "traditional" studios and distributors? Why are you not denouncing those websites as being the tail that wags the dog?
Can you give something more substantial to show pornstars being the boss is intrinsically bad than your axe to grind?
The transfer of power to the performers that OnlyFans has enabled is both its greatest strength and its greatest weakness. Clearly, the platform has served performers very well, but you can make a very well-supported argument about the myriad ways it has worsened the customer experience.
Discussing OnlyFans like this is a can of worms and I'm not an objective participant in the conversation, so I'll back away now. (Full disclosure: Studios are clearly better for the customer, and I am an advocate for customers first and foremost.)
But the argument here is not without support. I see a lot of people here picking apart OP's point, and while we can all agree that it was not made very eloquently, it does have merit.
Edited by - evilpineapples on 5/19/2021 11:14:28 AM
"Why shouldn't the industry be run by the people who actually work in it. Without the workers being willing to work, industries wouldn't exist. Why shouldn't workers make their own money instead of working for capitalists who profit off of their work?"
And you're 100% right, workers should be the ones running the show, everywhere, in full control and power, as they are the ones who have created everything we see around us. What would porn, let alone any industry look like without it's workers? It would look like nothingness as it would not exist.
I just find it funny that many people will understand your argument and 100% agree with it, but when you zoom out and look at the macro and not the micro, oh, they start getting uncomfortable then. Appreciate you bringing this to the table! Brings to light the underlying issues truly at hand in society.
Because work alone is not the only driver of success. What about leadership or creative vision? What about financial risk? You can't discount the importance of those things entirely. People in power are not purely self-serving, at least not by default. Power structures do not exist for their own sake; they serve a purpose. We are a hierarchical species. You can't just say that power exists as an end unto itself when that is not supported by the facts.
Edited by - evilpineapples on 5/19/2021 1:01:54 PM
There has been, since the dawn of affordable home recording equipment, amateur porn. Volumes, upon volumes, upon volumes of it have been put out over what, half a century? You never knew what you were getting on the amateur tapes, or if the models on the box were even in the movie. But now suddenly everyone is up in arms about it. If it isn't for you, don't buy the videos, if it is buy them.
That is a myopic point of view. People are up in arms because OnlyFans has reduced the talent pool available to studios, and actively disincentivizes talent from looking to work with studios at all, which results in products of lesser quality. It does not exist in a vacuum; it is making it harder for studios to operate in an environment where piracy and tube sites have already created significant challenges for them. There is a real chance that up-and-coming studios are going to be squeezed out of the market. Sure, the big names will survive (albeit in a less relevant position), but joining their ranks as a newcomer and having any chance of competing with them will be very, very difficult.
Is that really a net positive for the consumer?
Edited by - evilpineapples on 5/19/2021 1:18:35 PM
You can feel that my view lacks intellectual thought, however, for anyone to do well on OnlyFans, they have to gain a following. One gains followings by being in studio productions. Same as some erotic dancers do. The industry itself has always churned through talent, OnlyFans gives talent a place to stay relevant after the studios are "done with them" and allows for current talent to make money on the side. Those who never enter the real industry aren't much different than the stuck to amateur productions talent of the past. OnlyFans just allows the amateur material to potentially make more money than companies like HomeGrown offered in the past.
That was purely based on the word choice of myopic. I have no problem with differing opinions, and there is never a guarantee that my opinion is correct.
I'm just saying OnlyFans is not equivalent to the amateur porn of yesteryear. As a platform, it has a new and unique effect on the rest of the industry.
And I recognize that good things have come out of OnlyFans as well. The balance of power is a pendulum, and to be sure, one could argue that performers were getting screwed under the old 'regime'. Then again, one could also argue they are screwing themselves with this OnlyFans thing by massively diluting the market. It's a back and forth exchange, but I do recognize the reasons OnlyFans has caught on with performers, the benefits it afford them, and the deficiencies of the old studio system.
I think it all boils down to this. At the end of the day, porn is a market. Customers drive the market. That's how it works. Performers are people, of course. They have needs and rights of their own, and if the pendulum swings too far away from satisfying those needs and rights, then change is required. (Not only for their sake, but for the health of the industry as a whole.) However, the industry does not exist to serve them; it exists to serve the customers. Demand for the product is what enables them to make money in the first place. If the quality of the product suffers, or there is an excess of choice available on the market, or customers feel unable to make informed choices about what they want to buy, then THE PERFORMERS will ultimately suffer for that.
There is some good stuff on OnlyFans, but a lot of it is crap, and customers lack any ability to preview what they're buying before they spend money on it. That is a recipe for disaster all by itself. I may be wrong, but I don't think it can sustain its current level of growth with that approach.
Edited by - evilpineapples on 5/19/2021 3:01:46 PM
I'll be honest, onlyfans is not the greatest platform for consumers, no argument there. Obviously you can pay someone like Brazzers about $20 a month and get probably about 60 scenes per month. The bigger girls on onlyfans charge that (and often more) for one single scene. The girls are making good money doing it though and working for themselves so you can't blame them.
If the studio system wants them back, they'll have to make it more attractive, less abusive and less controlled by sleazy agents with far too much power in the industry. They've semi pushed girls into this paying less and having less work to go around because of the tube sites. Why should the girls do more for less though just because porn can't get it's house in order. Why not work for themselves and make more money.
Basically then, from a purely selfish point of view, I want these big studios to keep giving me tons of porn for a small monthly fee but I don't blame girls for bailing on it when they can make much more money doing their own thing. I also appreciate some of the extreme content on onlyfans though that we would not otherwise ever have gotten through studio porn which is now in the grip of puritanical credit card companies.
I agree with you and that is why I will not join any models OF account. I got burned way too many times in the past when I rented/bought a video thinking that what was claimed on the box cover was actually in the movie or when I joined solo model websites expecting to see something new to find out that it was either leased material or utter crap.
^^ We don't have to accept it merely because you say so. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
It's not like isn't a precedent of performers saying their earning potential in mainstream porn is hindered by piracy. It stands to reason from their accounts that mainstream porn is being killed by those who choose not to pay for their porn.
OnlyFans has some shockingly bad accounts and shitty content though there are some gems out there but it is a very easy scapegoat. Much easier to blame than piracy for some.
It doesn't make a difference whether he provides any data or not. The guy could literally be an expert on the subject, provide extensive data to prove his point, and win some awards on the topic. Then, a performer whose been in the industry for 1 month and shot 3 scenes, will pop in and say, "you don't know what you're talking about because you're not in the industry" and immediate that becomes the word of god.
Ok, the industry IS actually run by the people who work in it. But if you're referring to current female performers running the show, the industry would be as dead as Generalissimo Francisco Franco real quick. Some might be able to survive, but I read an article by Riley Reid where she's setting up a company to manage other performer's social media accounts because they really don't know how to do it. So, how can they run an industry if they can't handle social media? Someone had to put up the cash and effort to develop OF. I'd wager that its not a 20 year old female.
Do you have a tendency of presuming to speak for others? Not being a post-truth advocate, proof makes a difference to me. If not for you, that's your business to deal with. One can heed the input of both hypothetical people you put forward though I would consider the performer with less than a handful of scenes under their belt to be speaking from a limited purview.
Let's not forget that after a performer made serious allegations against a performer/producer that were proven to be a untrue (one allegation was a lie and at best another was a misunderstanding on her part at best), her word wasn't taken as gospel.
Being registered as non-religious, the word of god doesn't mean much to me anyway.
I'm talking about girls being their own boss, making and selling their own content. I'm not saying any of them individually should run the entire porn industry. That's too much work for anyone.
Do I expect them to be able to build a website like onlyfans on their own? Obviously not, no one in porn, male or female has the computer skills to do that. Plenty of girls and guys are now running their own onlyfans though, making their own content, arranging their own shoots all without the need for agents or big studios or Riley Reid's social media tuition and they're making decent money on their own terms.
There will probably always be some need for mainstream porn as the girls want to get their name out there. Once you've done that though and built a fan base, you're then in a position to go out and do your own thing and make all the money yourself rather than just taking a one-off payment for a scene. You can pop back onto a Brazzers or Evilangel every now and again at your convenience or if they give you a big contract but you essentially become self sufficient making the content you want at your own pace.
It won't work for everyone but, for girls who know what they're doing and put out quality content that their fans want, it may be preferable than the current studio/agent model.
Well, fair enough, but running a personal OF isn't running the industry. And, based on all the mainstream articles on OF over the past few months. The ones that are making bank on OF are basically doing it as a full time job, 8-10 hours a day. Plus, other than Maitland, those stories weren't about performers, but soccer moms and other professions. People rightly or wrongly knock the companies, but it takes money to make money as the cliche' goes. So, unless someone is just dying to send a performer some cash, what are you going to buy? A 10 minute professionally shot scene with high tech gear or a 10 minute Iphone scene shot in the back seat of a car.
I agree with you that, on the whole, onlyfans is not great for us consumers. It's more expensive and some of it is not great quality.
I'm just saying, if the performers make more money doing it for themselves and have no external pressure from agents and directors telling them what to do. The industry will have to up its game to get them back.
I also think the industry needs to find a way to get out from under the control of credit card companies who are restricting what can be shown more and more. I think some fans are being driven to onlyfans and clip sites as mainstream porn is becoming more and more sanitised and risk averse. Girls are shooting golden showers, puke stuff and other more extreme content on onlyfans that mainstream porn is too afraid to show and/or consider too niche a market.
That is actually what I see. Well known performer do there own OF, make much more money as ever before due corona, which is the cause for the change, clearly to see in the development of OF since 1 your. Some girls only doing there own stuff, sometimes with prices per video, extremely expensive. Others have more moderate prices. Some are only shooting vanilla now. Others are shooting quiet hard or more extreme stuff for their own. But nearly all performer are still shooting for companies like Brazzers, Evil Angel and a few more, the reasons you mentioned, being present in the market, and presenting her name here and there. So i totally agree with you. The future Idk, will see after Corona crises how the consumer behavior will be. For me the biggest lose is harder stuff like GB or bukkake, especially with well-known talent.
If the market wants homemade video shot on cell phones then more power to participants. What bothers is that many stunt cocks are okay with getting a copy of the footage rather than being paid. Some onlyfans girls invest $0 into getting making videos and reap major profit. Onlyfans has a sense of exclusivity, no promos just a join button while studios will post up 20minute clips on tubes devaluing the product using the excuse of promotion.
Agreed. You touch one issue that I'd guess most don't consider, the cost. On a different thread/threads regarding customs or OF, I believe it was either Casey or Lisey that detailed it a bit on producing a scene. Unless they're doing it as a content trade, they still have all the other costs associated with putting out a scene. Its just now, its the performer footing the bill and not the studio. Since they're starting from scratch, they have all the up front costs, lights, camera, etc. And while they might charge $50 for the scene, they still have to bang out a bunch of sales before break even.
Oh yeah, you're right, there's a lot of content trade going on where neither participant gets paid, they just each get the footage to release on their own platform. For many though, selling these clips is more profitable than getting a one-off fee and having someone else own the footage.
The thing now is that phone cameras are getting so much better that you can make a decent clip on your phone or digital camera and it doesn't look crappy quality. You don't need big set ups anymore especially as lots of porn is gonzo type stuff now anyway, there isn't an expectation of the big budget star vehicle features of the 90's when Vivid and Wicked Pictures ruled the roost.
Some also pay professional companies like Disciples Of Desire to produce some clips for them.
Don't get me wrong I've seen some awful quality stuff which literally looks like the girl is escorting and the paying customer is filming it on his phone. I've seen plenty though which are perfectly decent quality and look professionally made. Not to an Evil Angel quality but still perfectly watchable.
I really don't like onlyfans as a platform and don't like having to pay for individual scenes but I can't blame the performers for doing it and I am getting to see some super hardcore stuff that I would never get without it.
Wrecking River's Throat - review by Captain Jack
Posted - May 17 2021 : 1:03PM
