I read that the mainstream movie industry is really mad at all these file-sharers who download entire DVDs off the internet. Are sales of porn DVDs affected? Does anyone notice a recent dip?
I download short clips... mostly just home-videos posted by amateurs. Not high quality but some of it is pretty weird!
Gizzards
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*Mutt* Deactivated User
752 Posts 8/03
Posted - Jun 19 2004 : 4:48AM
no question the adult biz is hurt just as hard as the mainstream movie biz when it comes to the illegal distribution of their product on the Internet.
the adult movie studios have lost much more money than they realize because many of them choose to remain ignorant on how much money has and is being made on the Internet with illegal use of their movies.
i just saw today that JM Productions has filed a lawsuit against a Canadian adult video distributor named Kaytel who has been 'licensing' JM Productions' movies to Internet companies - without their permission of course, representing to Internet companies that they had the rights to do so. Do you think they were only stealing from JM Productions? Bet there are studios who have no idea what's been going on.
Nothing says I love you so much as a tongue in the ass. 2884 Posts 1/03
Posted - Jun 19 2004 : 2:23PM
I think it would be best to differentiate between file sharing and pirating. They are not the same. There is a school of thought that believes that file sharing does not hurt sales. It attracts people who wouldn't have bought the product in the first place, and in the case of music, provides a service that radio has obviously abdicated. In fact the music industry had an upswing while file sharing went on unabated even as they prosecuted their prospective customers. Go figure. Pirating is a real problem. Living in NY, I can't travel the streets of Manhattan without seeing tables full of pirated CD's and DVD's. These attract people with money, willing to spend. The same goes for internet paysites. They're providing content that porn companies should make available without the draconian restrictions.
This is what I find hard to understand too, although I didn't realise it was as blatant in the US as the UK. Over here we have a local sunday market nearby with maybe a couple of dozen stalls that sell pirated dvds and cds openly. I just can't fathom why nothing is done about these vendors, if I broke the law so brazenly I would be arrested (okay so in the uk my sentence would be laughably lenient but at least I'd be arrested) but week after week these stalls operate. Why can't the police just arrest them all every week rather than, as happens in the UK, trying to catch any motorist who happens to stray more than a couple of mph over the limit?
SNP.
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nietzsche Deactivated User
5470 Posts 8/03
Posted - Jun 19 2004 : 3:10PM
Probably because currently there's no one putting a lighted torch under the asses (arses) of the cops to arrest them. Yes, there's a lot of fuss being made about piracy in the press, but it has yet to filter down to the street. When the record companies finally decide that they need a cause celebre, they will contact the mayor, they'll hold a press conference, and everybody will know about it. Until then, the cops probably couldn't be bothered. (Plus the cops need *proof* that the stuff on the streets is bootlegged, and they don't necessarily have that.)
Do you know what I think a crime is; selling a adult DVD in the uk that is only R18 and then having the cheek to charge £25+ for it.
Oh and to stick the knife in, lets have customs grab a few harmless adult videos because after all i'm a adult and cant be allowed to watch what I want.
As for piracy, yes I have downloaded music, movies, games and porn and I bet 99% of the people in this group are the same. However this has only led me to actually buy porn. I never used to, however since I got broadband I have been able to download movies and find out what I like. I love all the extras and the picture quality of dvds so I buy and import the dvds.
Same thing happened with mp3s, I listened to lots of stuff and still do, I also buy far more albums now then I ever did mainly because I know thanks to downloading that I like them, also the record companies have finally waken up and have stopped charging huge markups.
If I could goto a moviestore in the uk and buy/rent hardcore titles for £10/£3 a go then I would buy a lot more. Sadly though i'm British and we live in the dark ages.
I think piracy is over-exagerated. Sure alot of people are getting pirated porn, music, movies and games, but i dont think they do it instead of buying it. I think most of the people who download porn are kids or people who can't afford to buy the stuff anyway. So if 1000 copuies are sold that is not necessarily 1000 lost sales. Any pirated cd or dvd I've ever owned i would not have forked out the money to buy it. I agree though that the games industry must have it the worst. i also agree that downloading clips from the net is likely to get people to buy the videos they would never have seen otherwise.
In my line of work I travel quite a bit, especially to the middle-east, Europe and sometimes far-east. Everywhere I go, they sell pirated CDs, DVDs, games and software... and it's CHEAP! I sometimes can't resist some of the bargains I find.
But my question is about downloading using file-sharing programs like Kazaa and Limewire. You can find porn by the boatload and it's FREE! Some of it is very rare or unusual stuff... and I'm sure some is even illegal.
I think it's safe to say porn production companies are losing money they have no idea about through file-sharing and downloading over the internet.
Nothing says I love you so much as a tongue in the ass. 2884 Posts 1/03
Posted - Jun 20 2004 : 3:21PM
I don't think it's safe to say that at all. You're assuming that the vast majority of people downloading free movie files would be buying them if it wasn't available to them for free. That's just simply not the case. In point of fact, and I know I'm not alone in this experience, I have discovered performers on the net that I hadn't seen before, and in turn, became a consumer of DVD's that I found them on. My first viewing experience of both Silvia Saint and Jessica Darlin were from file sharing. I have had full scenes in my possession, and using iafd, divined what disks they came from, and purchased them. On the other hand, if you're buying pirated disks on the street, you are hurting the people who are the rightful recipients of that cash.
I download small clips once in awhile. I don't think I could find entire movies. Usually with these small clips I end up buying the entire movie. It was with that with Rocco's Private Fantasies #1 (The scene with Sylvia Saint!)
I think it's wrong that some company could put up a pay site that just sells memberships to movies that are ripped from adult DVDs from Anabolic, Diabolic, Evil Angel etc. I mean without their permission.
It sure would be nice of these adult video producers to let us see previews of the movies or at the very least a few pictures from the movie. At least Evilangel does this once in awhile.
I know that sometimes the FBI gets involved and they make a federal case against these guys. Typically, they don't go after the guys who sell at the flea market. They try to work their way up to the ringleaders. However, it seems that it takes either the companies who are being ripped off or an association of these companies (like the MPAA) to get the ball rolling.
A couple of years ago, I had federal grand jury for 3 months. Mostly, we heard cases involving drug smuggling into JFK airport. But we also heard a couple of cases involving bootleg CD's. We always indicted these guys. But I have no idea what the final disposition of any of these cases were.
Yes but what about those people who stop buying DVDs because they get stolen scenes off the internet! I know a few that stopped buying because they can get stolen downloads but they do not believe they are stolen. If the numbers thrown around here at ADT of 3ooo to 5ooo units is right. Then losing a couple hundred buyers is a lot and could mean the difference of hot girl doing anal for use because they do not have the money to pay her and she ends up Vag only! These girls are not cheap! I don't believe that a lot of new buyers come into play if they see a stolen clip and then go buy the DVD. Its easer and time vs. money cheaper to just rent and then buy, plus you know what your getting and get to see all the scenes and DVD extras!
Nothing says I love you so much as a tongue in the ass. 2884 Posts 1/03
Posted - Jun 21 2004 : 8:53AM
There's a balance to things. Yes, I'm sure there are people who won't buy something that they perceive they can get for free. College students don't buy anything, but free stuff keeps them interested until they have disposable income to throw at high end products. File sharing is a frustrating gamble. It's hard to be sure what you're downloading. Files are named incorrectly, edited, encoded badly. Hasn't the success of iTunes opened up any eyes? Don't make war on your customers. Give them what they want at a fair price and guaranteed quality. Think of peer to peer file sharing as a form of advertising. Put the pirates out of business. It doesn't cost the copyright holders any more money than the thieves to re-encode their work and store on servers, making it available at a competitive price.
The problem I have with your argument is that other people are taking it upon themselves to distribute a company's product. It isn't your money that's at risk. Suggesting that you know better than the company owners about how to run their business and that stealing their product doesn't count if you aren't reselling it is simply ludicrous.
Telling people, 'don't make war on your customers' assumes that these people are customers. They could as easily be pirates using file-sharing networks to collect videos and burn them onto DVD's for their own profit, or people using downloads in lieu of purchasing movies. A company has no way of knowing whether file-sharing is hurting or helping, and your personal anecdote about buying DVD's based on viewing downloaded clips doesn't constitute proof or justification for taking the decision on how to market their products out of the company's hands.
I also take exception to the idea that porn companies must sell their product at a 'fair price,' that price being determined by ... you? This is entertainment. A company is under no moral obligation to provide you with entertainment, and your well being is not contingent upon them doing so. Therefore, they have no more obligation to price their product so you can afford it than Ferrari does their automobiles. If you feel their product isn't worth their asking price then don't buy it. Stealing it under the guise of 'file sharing' is simply excusing immoral behavior.
Finally, the suggestion that a company can put pirates out of business by moving to an Internet-download business model is untenable. Pirates never have to bear the costs of producing a movie so they can always sell at a lower price.
Nothing says I love you so much as a tongue in the ass. 2884 Posts 1/03
Posted - Jun 21 2004 : 3:06PM
OK lets take this apart. There have been studies done on file sharing and it's impact on the music industry that indicate that it has not been the evil that's killing their profits. People who only have a casual interest or no money rely on file sharing exclusively. Anyway, trying to stop it is like tilting at windmills. As far as "fair price", that in fact is decided on by the consumer, isn't it? Price it too high and nobody buys it. It's not about an entitlement. It's about being creative in your marketing and opening up new channels of revenue. Pirates have to take the time and use powerful equipment to re-encode DVD files for use on the net. They also have to pay for server space just like anybody else. For the copyright owner, the film has already been made. This is just a matter of repurposing existing files and storing them on servers. Isn't that exactly how the music industry made unprecedented amounts of money in the early days of CD. The work was already done. They milked that cow for years. First rushing out mediocre transfers, then remastered transfers and finally box sets. No wonder they don't understand where the money went. They're totally dependent on new material, which for the most part, sucks. Anyway, the question originally wasn't about the morality of file sharing, but whether it actually hurts the industry. My best guess is that it's a wash. I doubt whether you could ever actually quantify it.
And the sources for these studies were? Also, why do you assume that a study of the music industry validates your conclusion regarding movies? Are you claiming the same people who download ripped CD's are the ones downloading ripped movies? I'll concede there's overlap, but I don't know that the two groups are synonymous.I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy for this argument. Should the police all quit because people keep stealing?No, it isn't. A fair price is decided by the buyer AND the seller. While the consumer may choose not to buy if the price is too high, the producer may choose not to produce if the price is too low. A 'fair' price must be acceptable to both parties. Downloading the manufacturer's product from a file-sharing network without his consent circumvents the whole process.Again, who are the people ripping the movies and putting them onto file-sharing networks to decide that for the companies? Feel free to proselytize all you want, but when you actively participate in the distribution of material without the consent of the copyright holder, you're breaking the law and your claims of helping the company become suspect.The pirates' infrastructure requirement is a joke compared to what a porn company requires to produce a DVD master. At any rate, the server space is a wash and the pirates labor is essentially free. Now, account for the talent, the location, the lighting, the catering, the editing, the mastering, the shipping and the advertising; oh, and let's not forget the office and employee overhead.True, however, you chose to make exculpatory comments, to which I chose to respond.You make my point, which is why would any company embrace a marketing scheme the results of which cannot be quantified?
