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All Forums > The Porn Pool > The Porn Pool Forum Page 215 > Porn Industry leaving Los Angeles in droves
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pudknock
Member


A comfortable distance
499 Posts
7/06
Posted - Aug 7 2014 : 12:42AM
Reason: condoms.
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/cotown/la-et-ct-onlocation-la-porn-industry-20140806-story.html
Porn production plummets in Los Angeles
As Hollywood battles to keep movie and TV shows from leaving the state, another local industry — adult entertainment — is fleeing Los Angeles.
At least that's the picture that emerges from the latest data on location filming in the region.
The number of permits issued for X-rated productions plummeted about 90% to just 40 permits last year compared with 2012, according to data from FilmL.A. Inc., the nonprofit group that handles film permits for the city and county. Only 20 permits have been issued so far this year.
The decline follows the passage in late 2012 of a county law mandating condom use by performers.
"We've seen a dramatic drop in permits," said Paul Audley, president of FilmL.A. "It is a cause for concern that people who are manning the cameras, lights and other things on those sets are not working anymore.... It's not helpful to have another segment of the industry leave the region."
The decline in permitted shoots for adult entertainment comes at a time when L.A.'s workforce has been hammered by one of the state's highest unemployment rates. The entertainment industry has also been hurt by the flight of mainstream movies and TV shows to other cities and states offering tax breaks and rebates.
Although critics say it's unclear how many companies may be filming illegally without permits, porn producers say they're taking their business to other counties in Southern California, as well as Nevada, Florida and Eastern Europe, where they say they face fewer regulations. The industry also has been forced to downsize amid declining DVD sales and free porn on the Internet.
"We're not shooting in L.A. anymore," said Steven Hirsch, founder and co-chairman of Vivid Entertainment. "We'd like to stay here. This is our home, where we've produced for the last 30 years. But if we're forced to move, we will."
The situation is the same at Penthouse Entertainment in Chatsworth. The company, which has 10 television channels and produces up to 80 movies a year, has stopped all local film shoots.
"This month we're shooting 10 movies in Brazil," said Kelly Holland, managing director for Penthouse Entertainment. "Last month, we shot five movies in Europe. It's just too complex to shoot here."
The decline in adult entertainment has been widely felt in the San Fernando Valley, where much of the multibillion-dollar industry is concentrated.
Although porn production accounts for less than 5% of all film permits, the industry has traditionally been an important contributor to the local economy. A decade ago, local economists estimated that the porn industry in the San Fernando Valley generated 10,000 to 20,000 jobs annually and had $4 billion in annual sales.
As many as 5,000 adult films were shot in Los Angeles in warehouses and private homes in 2011, according to industry estimates.
"Losing an industry like that is going to have hugely negative consequences," said Stuart Waldman, president of the Valley Industry and Commerce Assn.
"We're not just talking about actors or the filmmakers, but everyone from the grips and caterers to assistants," Waldman added. "These are people who live in the San Fernando Valley, buy homes, cars, send their kids to school and go to the dry cleaners. If they move, all the money goes with them."
Whereas conventional film and TV producers blame tax credits for driving production outside California, porn industry producers cite fallout from Measure B, the ordinance passed by L.A. County voters.
The law was advocated by AIDS activists, who argued that it would protect performers from disease outbreaks.
But the measure has been assailed in the porn industry, which has argued that mandatory actor testing for HIV was already effective, and that the law's real intent was to drive them out of business.
Industry advocates also have argued there is little market demand for condom porn and that many performers object to wearing condoms.
Vivid Entertainment and others sued the county last year to prevent implementation of the condom requirement.
A U.S. district judge found that the condom mandate did not violate the 1st Amendment right to free speech, but imposed restrictions on how the rule can be enforced. A federal appeals court is expect to rule on the lawsuit later this year.
Michael Weinstein, president of the AIDS Healthcare Foundation, which backed Measure B, disputes the notion that the porn industry is leaving L.A.
"There is no question people are filming without permits," Weinstein said. "We're not against porn. We're not trying to drive them out of business. We want to protect the performer and we want them to be a safe industry like any other industry."
Causing further alarm in the industry is a bill that would mandate condom use statewide and require mandatory testing of adult film actors. The bill, AB 1576, was approved by the California Assembly in May and could be voted on by the state Senate this month.
Members of a coalition of industry groups, who testified against the bill at a Senate hearing Monday, said the measure was crafted without their input. They contend that a statewide condom mandate would give them less reason to remain in California.
"They are working so hard to keep mainstream production in California while driving another type of legal production outside the state," said Diane Duke, chief executive of the Free Speech Coalition, a trade group for the adult entertainment industry.
Assemblyman Isadore Hall III (D-Compton), who sponsored the bill, has argued that the law is necessary to protect performers from sexually transmitted diseases.
"It's not that the industry is being targeted," he said. "The industry is being asked to protect their employees and provide them workplace protection."
Hall notes that several porn studios with long-standing condom requirements have been successful. Like Weinstein, he also disputes the claim that porn filming is in decline.
"That is absolutely not true," he said.
misspornUSA
Senior Member

I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine).
8737 Posts
11/13
Posted - Aug 7 2014 : 1:26AM
^It's interesting that they should quote Assemblyman Hall, who has dual doctorates from Next Dimension Bible College and is likely lying through his teeth when he alleges that "It's not that the industry is being targeted..."
hoochimama
Deactivated User

1436 Posts
5/10
Posted - Aug 7 2014 : 5:24AM
Notice how he left out the actors.
________________________________________________
Please ID these girls from PlayboyTV's Foursome show
Edited by - hoochimama on 8/7/2014 5:25:41 AM
Dan
Senior Member

2056 Posts
6/07
Posted - Aug 7 2014 : 8:05AM
The problem with legislating condom use is that there haven't been any studies of how condoms affect the quality of sex and sexual pleasure. It's all based on hearsay and individual opinions, rather than on a statistically valid study that can reasonably tell you what the facts are.
Past studies of condom use have focused exclusively on their effectiveness in preventing infections and pregnancy, without any mention at all of their effect on the quality of sex and sexual pleasure. Which is like studying the effectiveness of some drug, while totally ignoring its side-effects and how they affect the quality of life.
This kind of a study would be totally unacceptable for most medical prescriptions and treatments. Such medical studies always need to take into account unwanted side-effects and study them too. But in sexual matters, the medical community seems to have a double-standard. They don't seem to care about the quality of sex in people's lives. They only care about preventing infections, regardless of how it affects people's sex lives. Which is an unethical way of doing it, according to their own ethical standards that they use for other medical issues.

Edited by - Dan on 8/7/2014 8:19:10 AM

SteveKub
Member

78 Posts
9/13
Posted - Aug 7 2014 : 2:01PM
How could anyone in his or her right mind be surprised by this? The majority -- probably vast majority -- of porn watchers do not,want, and will not pay for, porn that features condoms. Mandating condom use will kill the industry in LA. Period. And because the industry will simply go elsewhere to film without condoms, the effect of this misguided law will simply be to devastate the industry in LA. It will not help a single actor or actress stay "safe." But I suspect driving the industry out of LA was the point of the law in the first place, so mission (on its way to being) accomplished.
 
misspornUSA
Senior Member

I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine).
8737 Posts
11/13
Posted - Aug 7 2014 : 2:55PM
^I suspect that you're right.
Flash All-Star Supporter
Golden Age Classic

11017 Posts
5/01
Posted - Aug 7 2014 : 4:25PM
In all honesty, how do you know this? I ask because articles about it seem to use the terms "that producers feel that...." and such which indicates to me there are no true surveys on this matter regarding the percentage of overall viewers and their feelings nor about their buying habits.
And what about the complaints that are being filed in other states now? At least one has been filed in Florida by AHF on a production there. If other states start following California will all the people making it pack up and move to another country?
Edited to add, apparently AHF has filed one in Nevada too.
Edited by - flash on 8/7/2014 4:30:56 PM
LCF All-Star Supporter
All-Star Member

Non Prevalebunt!
10364 Posts
1/05
Posted - Aug 7 2014 : 4:32PM
^
Though the producers have their sales stats and most of all their download stats or see what scenes are downloaded the most even with the same talents involved
Each of them is likely jealous of his own data , that's why there's no compared survey, but if they move to another State with no guarantee they will be allowed to film porn like in California ,I'd assume they have very good reasons
Edited by - LCF on 8/7/2014 4:34:28 PM
Flash All-Star Supporter
Golden Age Classic

11017 Posts
5/01
Posted - Aug 7 2014 : 4:37PM
I meant an actual survey of customers. I keep hearing around here that the majority, the vast majority don't want condoms, yet I have seen zero for statistics on this. Even a site like this can't be used for a representative figure since it encompasses only a certain area of viewers. And moreso, the majority, vast majority won't pay for porn with condoms, again I have seen zero for actual proof on this. Just trying to separate what is someones opinion versus actual statistical data.
LCF All-Star Supporter
All-Star Member

Non Prevalebunt!
10364 Posts
1/05
Posted - Aug 7 2014 : 4:44PM
I only tried to figure out why there's not such study available and that the producers do have sources.
Anyway I have no problem with condoms even though I prefer without
but we all know the actual reason behind them is to wipe out porn ,and incidentally exposing to some Judge that they are filming porn in Sates where it's not officially legal like Florida or Nevada (as far as I know)
Flash All-Star Supporter
Golden Age Classic

11017 Posts
5/01
Posted - Aug 7 2014 : 6:17PM
My assumption is that such a study would be hard to conduct. How do you get the average porn viewer? I don't think your average porn viewer visits sites such as these. Performing the survey at a store like Castle Megastore only gets walk in purchasers. Performing the survey at a store like Adult DVD Empire only gets online purchasers.
In reality, I suspect the truth of the matter is:
Most viewers would say they prefer not to have condoms in adult movies. Note prefer is not the same as would accept.
A decent percentage of those polled would say that they would accept condoms in adult movies.
The same percentage of those polled that would accept condoms would say that if condoms were in adult movies that it would not affect their purchasing of the movies from a studio that they like.
A percentage of the people who said they would not accept condoms would still purchase adult movies but would bitch about the condom use on forums.
And if all companies went to condom use in adult movies that sales numbers overall wouldn't differ that much from now.
This is just my opinion though.
whatsatelephonebill
Senior Member

2935 Posts
10/11
Posted - Aug 7 2014 : 8:42PM
^
I think most of the producers that were around back then will just point to 2004 (I think it was then), when a lot of them went condom-only voluntarily, and most of them saw their sales decline.
charn
fubar

2880 Posts
12/09
Posted - Aug 7 2014 : 11:20PM
Initially I thought that's not a problem for lez fans, but then I remembered there are other reasons to GTFO. The industry might as well leave now while it's still a choice instead of an emergency evacuation.
BlackSix All-Star Supporter
All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07
Posted - Aug 8 2014 : 8:21AM
Isn't this hard to quantify as porn production in general is down a lot due to internet piracy decimating profits?
I don't really care about condoms in porn but do note that Bang Bros, one of the truly successful porn sites, had condoms in all their scenes for years and still seem to have made a boatload of cash. These days they don't seem to have condoms though. Wonder what the story is there.
Flash All-Star Supporter
Golden Age Classic

11017 Posts
5/01
Posted - Aug 8 2014 : 10:57AM
From what I can find I would question your use of "a lot of them." From what I can tell, in 1998 six straight companies went condom only. The only names I could find were VCA, Wicked, and Vivid.
For 2004, the only straight company that I can find a record of is Seymore Butts.
Vivid stayed condom only from 1998 to 2006, when they stopped Hirsch claimed it was due to a 10 - 20% decline in sales. Yet Hirsch calls Vivid, "condom optional" now which if that is true they could still put out all condom features.
Wicked appears to still require the use of condoms.
VCA was purchased by Hustler in 2003. I can't find any records of whether they stayed condom only until their sale or if they stopped prior.
I can not find any records on how long Seymore Butts stayed condom only, or if it still is.
There may have been more companies in 2004, that was the only company I could find proof of.
I specified straight since it looks like many gay companies have been condom only for a long time now.
 
Flash All-Star Supporter
Golden Age Classic

11017 Posts
5/01
Posted - Aug 8 2014 : 1:26PM
But where should they go? Remember, only two states have specifically legalized adult movie production, the rest sit in a gray area. While there are companies situated in other states, if there is a mass exodus of companies from California into one of these states, it could cause the state to issue a ruling on the legality of adult movie production there. Some areas also may not be overly positive to such exoduses as well. Miami has had issues with the Bang Bros parent company. While for now they seem to be letting them slide, if they become inundated with companies they may stop letting things slide. Also, if companies end up all over, split apart from one another, costs are likely to go up, with no central location for the talent pool and technical crews. If Hirsch is right on a 10 to 20% decrease, mass exoduses could end up costing companies a 10 to 20% increase in cost, making the move a wash profit wise.
whatsatelephonebill
Senior Member

2935 Posts
10/11
Posted - Aug 8 2014 : 2:12PM
^
I don't really see any other state coming to a different ruling about the legality of porn production than California and New Hampshire. The attorneys in the other states would just use the same legal argument and use those states cases as precedent (as pandering/prostitution laws aren't different enough around the country to cause a different outcome). And then on top of that Nevada would have an added issue with the fact that that there are areas where prostitution is legal. All that is the reason you don't actually see people getting arrested/charged on the pandering/prostitution aspect of it anymore, because no one wants to start the proceedings to set that legal precedent in their state. When performers/producers do get arrested and/or fined, it's usually for indecent exposure, or being a public nuisance, or filming without a permit, or some other tangential issue. If the state government/legislature really don't want porn professionally filmed there, they're much more likely to do what AHF is trying to get California to do and have the whole thing be so regulated that companies don't want to shoot there.
Flash All-Star Supporter
Golden Age Classic

11017 Posts
5/01
Posted - Aug 8 2014 : 3:54PM
With the added allowance that Nevada allows prostitution, if Nevada rules the ruling could go much like California if they regulate the adult movie industry in the same way. I am not trying to imply that being an adult actress is the same as prostitution. Just stating that if Nevada courts end up having to make a ruling and they adapt similar rules to the adult movie industry.
From Wikipedia:
Edited to add: AHF seems to be trying to target states where non-California based companies are operating out of as well, I am sure in the hope that they can bring similar measures there as well. With filming permits down in California, it seems to me that a better avenue than mass exodus would be for the companies to work with the state to create rules that both can live with. California seems to be concerned with losing the money brought in by adult movie companies, so it seems ripe for working together right now. Concessions would have to be made on both sides, but that seems like a better avenue to me than to start running to other states where the result would be completely unknown.
Edited by - flash on 8/8/2014 4:03:52 PM
Bob Cobb
Deactivated User

220 Posts
6/14
Posted - Aug 8 2014 : 8:58PM
Agree 100%. ADT is the hardest of the hardcore fan base and only represent a small subsection of porn fans. They just complain the loudest.
charn
fubar

2880 Posts
12/09
Posted - Aug 8 2014 : 9:15PM
Canada, mostly. Some European performers moved to the US because most of the American porn industry was in one metropolis. With that advantage gone, they will go back to Europe, where they can be more confident of test results.
Riograndeler
Senior Member

1033 Posts
11/08
Posted - Aug 9 2014 : 10:15AM
Friends!
Do you know anyone, who is not buying videos because of the lack of the condom use?
...and...
How many people you know, who is not buying videos because of condoms?
Every lost fan - the loss of money. All the study!
ge55
Senior Member

1013 Posts
5/14
Posted - Aug 9 2014 : 5:00PM
I hate condoms in porn .I dont buy movies with condoms on
BlackSix All-Star Supporter
All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07
Posted - Aug 9 2014 : 10:21PM
Pornographers in Canada don't enjoy the same protections as those in California. At any time the government, which is currently Conservative and quite right wing by Canadian standards would love to be able to feed their frustrated base by cracking down on pornographers. While very liberal compared to the states I'd say there are even fewer public voices that would bother to speak out against a crack down on porn.
The idea that other states would rule as Californa did in the Freeman case seems overly optimistic, to put it mildly.
BlackSix All-Star Supporter
All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07
Posted - Aug 9 2014 : 10:23PM
Also my understanding from interviews from European performers is that the pay is better in the States. Not sure if anyone can confirm that.
pat362
Senior Member

10083 Posts
3/10
Posted - Aug 10 2014 : 1:12PM
^I can't confirm your statement but the fact that most Eastern European performers do the more extreme types of porn almost from the get go tells me that money and options are two things that are limited in Europe.
 
Jacco All-Star Supporter
All-Star Member

"liable to deprave and corrupt"
2673 Posts
5/04
Posted - Aug 10 2014 : 2:52PM
It's a lot harder in Europe to do a lot of scenes for a performer since the industry is not concentrated like in LA. So even if the pay per scene is the same you will not make the same amount of money as you will not be able to do as many scenes.
Jacco
zambi
Senior Member

1451 Posts
3/10
Posted - Aug 10 2014 : 3:53PM
I think Evil Angel and/or Elegant Angel tried condoms for a while and gave up after sales tanked.
I definitely remember Tom Byron going condom only for a while and later saying nobody wanted to see condoms
except big boys like Vivid and Wicked who made most of their money from cable TV and PPV. IMHO the gonzo
guys especially will stay away from condoms because they know their fan base won't buy it.
urthoughts
Deactivated User

it takes a real wolf to expose true sheep
2600 Posts
7/12
Posted - Aug 12 2014 : 5:08AM
Porn is a fantasy. If the fantasy is forced to use condoms whats the point. Maybe vegas and florida can cash in on the exodust from LAs fake liberal society
Mister Fahrenheit All-Star Supporter
All-Star Member

Meh
4655 Posts
10/13
Posted - Aug 14 2014 : 9:15PM
Porn's Condom Law Goes Down:
However, the article goes on to say that Assemblyman Isadore Hall and the AIDS Healthcare Foundation will be trying again next year. This battle's won, but the war's not over. Nonetheless, congratulations to all the performers who opposed this bill!
charn
fubar

2880 Posts
12/09
Posted - Nov 11 2014 : 4:30PM
Black market water
If they can't set up business elsewhere, the pornographers can sell their cameras and try to find other jobs. Move or die.



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