I am not a parent at the time, but I doubt that my feelings on this will change as a parent as I intend to educate my children about sex instead of adding to the bad stigma that currently surrounds it. Please don't read this wrong and think that I am advocating allowing minors to view porn, as this is not an acceptable practice as far as I am concerned. Parents still need to educate their children about sex and allow them to feel more comfortable with their sexuality as they grow into it, no matter what the orientation of it is.

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Cal444
Somewhere thinkin fuckin hypocrites

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Just look at the "back room" of you video store. What use to be a few movies ten years ago had now turned into a huge section. DVD's, Videos, magazines, sex toys... Why?? Because America wants it. It is now becoming mainstream and thank goodness. Just look at the reality based dating shows out there or see how many "Girls Gone Wild" advertisments you can see on the cable networks. It is on its way and we don't think that anyone can stop it.

In numerous other countries, television and sexuality is much more open and there has been for a while. Growing from the rock and roll era of the 50's, to the drug induced '60's, the sex of the '70's and the greed of the late '80's and 90's somewhere the US became conservative. People started telling us what we should and should not do. Soceity should be able to make their own decisions and not feel embarassed that they have an interested in adult entertainment.

Lastly, watch for this industry to take over the wireless data market. Carriers in the UK and Asia are already working on getting high speed downloads on streaming video on their 3G phones. Just remember what gave the industry a kick start. While we as fans enjoy the entertaiment, we need to make sure as a community we do not let this business be taken over by Corporate raiders who could give us cookie-cutter features driven to high margins and profits.

Stay tuned fans....

Ms Christine & JC, the first couple of adult review.

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I think that an industry that's bigger than the mainstream movie and music industry combined should have it's own fuckin' basic cable channel. In fact, porn IS mainstream! Every single porn supplier should be sending screeners to Leno, Carson, Letterman, Conan and all those cats. Daily! You know damn good and well that they'll watch em. Or at least the staff will.

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I sure would like to see very explicit stuff on TV-advertizements, maybe porn companies advertizing their product on Russian TV, just those little films we have at end of RLD or Private. So people know what porn is about.
It would sure make those companies very popular.

If you are young you wank off to pictures with women selling cars, later you have explicit porn if you like. But basically its same. Porn is just more honest. Its all about fucking women.
I dont need porn billbord all around my town. (Some porn billboard would not harm especially in winter, however). But I would be happy if finally I could just go to well advertized sex shop and buy all porn films you can buy in USA or West.

About kids I dont worry. Russian kids know a lot and see a lot. In school here they learn very early about theater and art. They know that film is no reality. They add this to all the great Russian love poems they read and know that true love is not in films.

Edited by - Shameless on 3/23/2003 3:06:41 AM

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I think a big part of the reason that porn is made the butt of so many mainstream jokes, is that compared to mainstream in so many aspects porn IS a joke.

The budgets, production values, standard of acting, standard of props, standard of scripts in "most" porn productions are a joke. They are not good enough to be B grade mainstream movies, by a LONG LONG way.

I think that a lot of people in this forum in particular use the examples of films like Fashionistas and Euphoria as an example too often. They are the exception to the rule when it comes to porn movies. The vast majority of work that comes out in the porn industry is totally unappealing to anyone that is looking for more than just sex in a movie.

Having said all that... I think a big part of that is that porn does not attempt to endear itself to mainstream viewers, in the same way mainstream does not attempt to endear itself to porn viewers. The crossover between the two industries is negligible suprisingly (considering that the two industries are essentially the same industry with different content).

Let me pose this as a question... (Lets pretend for a while that sex in mainstream movies isn't an all but unheard of thing) if a famous studio makes a huge "Drama" genre production which also has a real life sex scene in it. Do you as a porn consumer, but someone who is ambivilent to drama go out of your way to buy/rent it? I would guess no. Its probably not going to appeal to you any more than a normal porn movie would. HOWEVER, if a famous porn studio creates a "Drama" genre movie with real sex scenes in it, and did it to the same level of standards as what we see coming from the mainstream. Do you think a viewer who likes to see Drama and is ambivilent toward porn would go out to see it? I am guessing yeah, they might do that.

I think what I am trying to say in an overly complex manner, is that the porn industry in general could bring itself a lot closer to mainstream, and by doing so find themselves a lot more customers, perhaps by making movies like Euphoria and Fashionistas a more common occurance, and even by improving on the standards these movies set in the porn industry.

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Addressing your other statements Ish..
I think you're absolutely right when you say that movies like Fash and Euphoria are exceptions to the rule. I just want to add onto that a reminder that the rule is 11,000 releases a year long. Even if 1% of porn is the exception, that's still over 100 high quality videos a year. Hollywood distributes only 400-500 releases a year (200-300 theatrical). 2 videos a week is enough for many porn addicts, let alone people who will only seek it out occasionally. Yes, finding that 1% is hard, but that's what ADT is for. Porn doesn't have its own basic cable channel yet, but thank Set for the Net.

Ish wrote:
“Having said all that... I think a big part of that is that porn does not attempt to endear itself to mainstream viewers, in the same way mainstream does not attempt to endear itself to porn viewers.”

I have 2 answers to this. A. Porn *is* mainstream. Its revenue is bigger than the Hollywood movie and music industries combined, which suggests that as many people watch porn as watch Hollywood movies. B. I’m not sure if by “endear itself” you mean “publicize itself” or “appeal”. Either way, I think you’re creating a false dichotomy. Porn viewers watch both porno and nonporno movies. That consumer who doesn’t mind watching people having sex (a la Eyes Wide Shut, The Piano Teacher, E Sua Mamae Tambem) but doesn’t watch porno is spoiled (in a good way). Those movies cost 4 to 400 times as much as a good porno. So, their desire to watch a porno is a function of their desire to see people having sex divided by their tolerance of the cinematic quality one can create on a relatively small budget.

“The crossover between the two industries is negligible suprisingly (considering that the two industries are essentially the same industry with different content).”

I don’t know if they’re the same industry. They may use similar tools, but James Cameron doesn’t have to lose sleep wondering whether he should keep the Winslet/Dicaprio fisting scene in the final edit because the 5th Circuit might rule it obscene and raid his Boca Raton mansion for evidence. And it’s not for lack of trying (on the porno industry’s part) that there’s not a tremendous amount of crossover. The straight tv and film industry know they have the power to “normalize” porn (just like they do cigarettes and alcohol) but they’re cowards. They’re all waiting for some other media outlet to do it first. In the meantime, Buttman will not be appearing on Leno.

Ishamael wrote:
“Let me pose this as a question... (Lets pretend for a while that sex in mainstream movies isn't an all but unheard of thing) if a famous studio makes a huge "Drama" genre production which also has a real life sex scene in it. Do you as a porn consumer, but someone who is ambivilent to drama go out of your way to buy/rent it?”

If Eyes Wide Shut had been about a couple who has a fight after they get high on ‘erb, then I probably wouldn’t have gone to see it. Steph might have. But I saw it cuz I knew it was about rich folks having group sex. Did I jill off to it? Hell no, but other people definitely have, and talked about it on RAME.

Ish wrote:
“I would guess no. Its probably not going to appeal to you any more than a normal porn movie would. HOWEVER, if a famous porn studio creates a "Drama" genre movie with real sex scenes in it, and did it to the same level of standards as what we see coming from the mainstream. Do you think a viewer who likes to see Drama and is ambivilent toward porn would go out to see it? I am guessing yeah, they might do that.”

But it’s not that simple. Even the idea of “going out to see that” is problematic, cuz some people are ambivalent not just about porn, but about obtaining it. Many people worry about what others would think if they saw them go into the porn room or saw their car parked in the adult superstore lot or if a housemate found a package from “Adultdvdempire.com”. I just want to slap those kinda people actually. Don't they watch Dr Phil? "You wouldn't care so much about what other people thought of you if you knew how little they did."

Ish wrote:
“I think what I am trying to say in an overly complex manner, is that the porn industry in general could bring itself a lot closer to mainstream, and by doing so find themselves a lot more customers, perhaps by making movies like Euphoria and Fashionistas a more common occurance, and even by improving on the standards these movies set in the porn industry.”

It’s about money tho. To a consumer accustomed to films with budgets of 1 to 100 million, they’re not gonna be satisfied with films that cost 25,000 to 250,000, unless the script and acting are Academy-Award caliber. Movie fans are savvy and picky nowadays, so unless they’re getting a movie with the goal of getting themselves sexually aroused (which is what I think porn’s essential purpose is), then they’re going to shrug their shoulders nonchalantly at a porno and say “enh...it was aiite I guess.” I think that the end of porn’s evolution will come when Hollywood decides to put explicit sexual scenes in their movies. I think *that* may happen sooner than Evil Angel or Wicked getting the scratch to make the first $100 million porno blockbuster with SFX by Lucasfilm. (Remember that porno box office take would be almost nothing compared to a film with a wide release. The company would totally depend on video for return on investment.)

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