So with the Pornhub Awards having took place, with even Brazzers, the biggest compagny in porn today going there with a limo of pornstars including Madison Ivy, can we all agree now that tube sites are NOT torrents and are NOT piracy? Im kinda tired of the old dinosaurs who defend this really for YEARS and now with the Pornhub awards i feel its the last nail in the coffin of those dinosaurs. Tube sites are here to stay. They are considered mainstream, lots of random folks asked on the street name "pornhub" as there main porn website (watch Athena Palomino Youtube Video) and main compagnies use Pornhub to advertise there products. They understand that the guys who don't wanna pay will just NOT PAY. They will find other way and/or will be ok with pornhub to punch there munchkin. But the consumer who craves a lot of porn and is willing to pay, he will use pornhub as an advertising billboard. Find stuff he likes so he can pay for it Its kinda like MyFreeCam and Chaturbate. How many peoples just go there to watch free and never pay a dime, but the peoples who do pay make the website run and stay afloat. They are the one who gives those camgirl a reason to keep doing what they do. So once and for all, stop the useless tube war AdultDVDTalk !
I vote no. Brazzers goes there with the limo because they are owned by the same company as pornhub (MindGeek). If you follow porn people on twitter, there were a lot of girls excited to go to the awards, and there were a lot of content creators who were pretty pissed that the movies they make go up on pornhub for free and it's tough to get them taken down, even if you're searching for them 24/7. And do others really make money hosting their vids on pornhub? Well, not much. One girl last night posted about how the vids she uploaded have raked in 6 million views this year, and she's been paid $10 for it. Pornhub is still a vampire on the porn industry. They've set up a system so that whether you agree to play with them or fight against them, you still lose. They've made it so that they're the only ones who can make any decent money on their model. So, no, I don't think we should stop the useless tube war. No, I don't think that we can agree that tube sites are not piracy. Maybe others feel different, and maybe one day the rules will change. But I don't think they should right now.
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ReturnOfTheDude Deactivated User
110 Posts 9/18
Posted - Sep 8 2018 : 4:37AM
Its not about making money out of the video on Pornhub itself. Its about the exposure, the publicity ! You watch a scene there, you enjoy it, you go to the website and sign up to see what other content they have. Peoples who want to watch porn for free will always do it, just like the peoples who watch regular movies or music. Unless the internet totally ban any form of distribution, it will happen. Better use that window as free publicity rather than anything else. Most stuff on there is actually shortened up scenes, 10 mins instead of 26/34. When full scenes are there, there just a sample of the whole website. I agree if a whole website was ripped and uploaded there it would be wrong. But it ain't the case. There is always the possibility to have content taken down if you really don't want it there too. Pornhub is to porn what Youtube is to music. Yes you can see a full porn scene/song there, but it will never replace having a subscription to a website or to spotify etc (or in my case buying CDs) I listen a lot on youtube, i even rip songs from there too, but when i realize i really like an artist and enjoy lots of songs, i just buy the album on CD for better quality and having the real thing. Edited by - ReturnOfTheDude on 9/8/2018 4:50:26 AM
^ So if I steal jewelry or art to the legitimate owners and buyers and then I award the artists would that make OK to steal? What would you believe it would happen if a tubesite creates an award for the most "requested" Hollywood content?
How many sites have you joined after you watched their stolen content on Pornhub? How many videos have you bought after you watched their stolen content on Pornhub? These are the two questions that matter the most for content producers who keep seeing their stolen material on Pornhub and sadly the answer is usually none.
Fly Eagles Fly Super Bowl LII Champions Nova Nation 2016 and 2018 National Champions 5180 Posts 2/16
Posted - Sep 8 2018 : 1:52PM
I still like to buy CDs but I always download stuff from YouTube like certain songs I like from an artist I only like one song of. There are a few upcoming CDs I will buy. Its beyond Pornhub there are so many ways to download, view, etc porn. Everyone likes free stuff, I downloaded a game for free a few weeks back. There is no way to stop anyone from downloading free porn music anything. I'm sure someone could put blocks on it but why when time when everyone is doing it.
Music is something different you have to listen multiple times , on a Hi Fi stereo device , it's a pleasure that never ends , a porn scene on the other hand (pun intended).... it's worth only once maybe twice , once you watched and stroked to it you're done , there's no need to buy anything , with what purpose?
Fly Eagles Fly Super Bowl LII Champions Nova Nation 2016 and 2018 National Champions 5180 Posts 2/16
Posted - Sep 8 2018 : 4:35PM
^ Yeah I agree with you. I don't even watch the full scene, bits and pieces. If its my favorite performer I'll check it out a few times especially if its a great scene. Like you said you are gonna listen to a song a bunch not watch a porn scene 20 times.
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ReturnOfTheDude Deactivated User
110 Posts 9/18
Posted - Sep 8 2018 : 7:08PM
Its funny how you emphasize on "stolen". Lots of time the scenes in a shortened up version are even put there by the compagnies who made them. Let me tell you something. If it was "that illegal" it would be close down. And yes i bough some subscription over the years that i seen on something free first. Also true for Hollywood movies. Sometimes the movie is not out where i live yet, finding it online is the only way. But when the movie is good, once it come out here, ill go buy it to support. I disagree that a porn scene is watched only once. I still have scenes from many years ago that i watch "regulary". When it comes to a great scene, its timeless. Plus i have favourites who don't even work in the business anymore, but i still enjoy watching there stuff from the past. Also lets not forget something. Girls there days can market themselves with so much different things. Onlyfans, strip club feature dancing, manyvids, cam sites etc. They can make lots of money if they know how to properly do it. As for big compagnies, there will always be peoples who will subscribe. Websites like Brazzers, Naughty America, Bangbros or Reality Kings have been around for a decade... If they didn't made money they would shut down.
Some of the posts here are kinda weird. First of all, Brazzers (as already pointed out) and Reality Kings ARE Pornhub. But also, as some people may not appreciate, porn is an utterly different market from, say, music: The porn market does not function in the same way. There are few legal protections-or cultural protections-for porn. The market can't evolve in the way that popular music evolves, or TV.
Stolen/Steal: To take the property of another wrongfully and especially as a habitual or regular practice. If that isn't what Tube and Torrent sites do hourly then what do you think it is? It's certainly isn't free advertising because the site who produce that porn already offer that service on their site. It's certainly isn't helping a competitor(except if it's to go out of business) because nobody does that in any industry. It is and as always been illegal to steal content but there is no organisation willing to police these things when it comes to porn. It's quite a different thing for mainstream media. Why do you think Napster and every similar sites had to completely change their business model or go out of business. If was because the Federal Government got involved. I can assure you that if the Government decided to do to porn tube and torrent sites what they did to Napster then these sites would quickly go out of business or close for fear of prosecution.
my question is why greg lansky supporting pornhub ,its owned by MindGeek who also owns brazzers so their is no loss for them but why greg lansky ,why didnt greg lansky and other producers oppose them at this rate porn industry future seems to be in danger
^ from what I know, the money behind the Lansky stuff also comes from some tubesites or similar (IIRC it's a spanish company), but is (to my knowledge) not associated with Mindgeek.
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ReturnOfTheDude Deactivated User
110 Posts 9/18
Posted - Sep 9 2018 : 12:08AM
First things first, duplicating stuff is not as much "stealing" as taking something away from somebody. If i steal your car, then you loose it, it hurt you in a lot of ways. If i carefully sneak in your car, take your CDs, duplicated them, go put them back and lock the doors, and the next day you don't even realise it happened, then you don't loose anything.. There is a lot of duplicate of famous painting in the world, pretty sure it does not affect the person who owns a real Van Gogue. So i guess you can use the term "pirating" maybe, but using the term "stealing" is really overdoing it. Duplicating medias has been around ever since it has been possible to do so. I was a little kid and i was duplicating casette tapes between me and my friends. Its nothing new, the internet just made it mode convenient. That being said speaking of music cause you invoke Napster, do you realize how it was simply the first step? I mean music has been pirated for years in a lot of different forms. Napsters shutting down didn't killed piracy of music. You know what did it? The music industry itself evolved and made piracy of music irrelevant. You want to listen to music today, you open up youtube or spotify and bam... here you go. Peoples won't even bother torrenting music anymore cause its just not worth the hassle as there is LEGAL WAYS of listening to it without ruining yourself. I think porn truly need to take exemple on that. The problem is when every website charge 30$US , its not viable to subscribe to all of them. Some of those websites even charge that price with only 4 updates a month (1 per week). Sometimes i wait 1 year to subscribe 1 month to a website because the few updates are not worth the subscription prices. I only subcribe when there is enough "old content" to browse. Also i see frequently scenes being sold for 30$ a piece... Thats way too ridiculous. DOGFARTS understand how to do it, they sell there scenes 4$ a piece. That way you can buy some here and there and not ruin yourself. I see some of you saying Pornhub IS brazzers etc. But then why does it work for them? I mean brazzers produce tons and tons of content. Granted i feel lots of it is more of the same and im easily bored by it (especially when the same male talent is in 60% of the scenes) BUT they still got to pay those girls, those locations, the editors etc, so its still costly to run as much content, and yet they stay afloat, even if there content is ALSO in part on pornhub. Cause they know a portion of the porn pool will just subscribe to there site and it will be there go to and it will be fine, while another will use the free tube site and watch 5m of the scene and be ok with it. Then you got the middle peoples, wich lead me to my final point. Pornhub is known !! I was watching a youtube video by Athena Palomino and she asked a bunch of peoples on the streets what was there favourite website and they all said pornhub. As soon as you think porn, you think pornhub. So That is why i say its a great publicity window. I am fan of bukkakes and blowbang, there may be a website like this wich exist and im just not aware of. But then they upload a scene (or half of it) on pornhub, i see it and im like "oh shit, gotta check there website" then i notice there is a bunch of hotties i like on there website. That make me interested and that make me wanna subcribe... You get it? The Netflix of porn is coming guys, cause otherwise the industry will end up dying... Simple as that. When you have the choice to buy 3 movies for 25$ a piece (so roughly 75$) or subscribe a month to a platform of hundreds of movies + series for 10$ ... what do you choose? In porn i can see huge websites who release a new scene every 1-2 days surviving with the current 30$ a month subs, but smaller websites.... nah. They will have to evolve.
Look, if a particular performer or studio decide to post some version, edited or not, of content *that they own*, on a tube site, that is of course perfectly fine, and certainly, that is a portion of what is on most tube sites, but there is also a very significant portion of content that is posted without authorization of the copyright holder. It is inarguably, stupefyingly obvious that this is theft of the content. I think that this is well-understood by anyone who works hard, and to the best of their abilities, to produce intellectual property of any form. For example, I am a senior developer for a piece of high-end engineering software that costs literally tens of thousands of dollars per year to license, and is therefore very often pirated. There is absolutely no difference, to me, between companies that steal the code that I develop, and people who steal porn via a tube site. The skillset that I use is obviously very different than that of my favorite porn stars, but they are still laboring to produce IP, and they have an equal right to the protection of that IP.
Only reason producers post stuff on PH is traffic. Do a google search and the first page is tubes & torrents. The conversion rate for producers suck but they still post on the chance that one of you horny lads are horny enough to whip out your cc.
We're past the point that stolen good s must have a physical form , already in the XVII Century the Venetians would kill (literally) to protect the know how to treat and produce glass ,not even Galileo in need for improved transparent glass for his lens was allowed to watch , actually couldn't even come close to the island of Murano where glass was produced, it was just an idea nothing physical but to steal that idea would have had you killed in no time. If something has a value and you take it for free without permission of the legitimate owner it's stealing , no matter the amount of sugar you put on this plunt truth to sweeten it
^ In the US, probably nobody might know who Esso is, there it's known as Exxon. Just sayin' (ESSO btw. derives its name from "S.O.", i.e. Standard Oil (owned by the Rockefeller family), before they were forced to split because of antitrust laws)
^ Don’t really know how to translate this into English, in German there’s a saying Eine Krähe hackt der anderen kein Auge aus, which basically means a crow doesn’t pick another crows eye out, online translation pages translate this as "there’s honor among thieves", but the "picking eyes" sounds more vile, while the honor among thieves has something noble… I guess it depends from where you come from.
I have no idea exactly how PORNHUB operates. However, if they do what's being said here they absolutely are stealing content to make money for themselves and are hurting the people/studios they steal that content from. But, I think it would be incredibly easy for a site/entity to exists that not only makes money for themselves but also for the people/studios they steal from. PORNHUB can easily exist as a big "hub" that advertises all those various sites. I actually have a subscription to PORNHUB. What I mostly use it for is to check stuff out. If there's a girl I never heard of before I go there and more than likely there will be multiple scenes there of the girl. I don't keep up with girls the way most people here do so many if not most of the girls I discover and want to check out have been in the game for years and many of them are retired. For older scenes like about 5 years old or so, I don't see a problem with PORNHUB having the whole scene up since the chances are that not many people will seek out and pay for such an old scene. If the studio that made that scene is still around it wouldn't hurt them to pay them something for them using it. It doesn't have to be a lot. They could also include studio name and site info with the scene. Hopefully people like what they see will go to that site to check out more (Most people won't but I have to figure some will). For newer scenes PORNHUB should only have clips that only last a few minutes (in many/some cases that's what they have) and try to direct traffic to the original site. With me for example, I saw about 10 minutes of Riley Ried's BLACKEDRAW on PORNHUB and it made me want to purchase the DVD (which I did) to see the full scene. It's also made me aware of girl's and scenes I wouldn't have been aware of otherwise to buy. It's made me aware of sites I would otherwise never know about. But unfortunately, I would never join those sites anyway. I may like the one or two odd scenes from them but I it's just not worth it for me to join a site just for one or two scenes. So it's nice that I now know these sites exist, but they're sites I would never join. So, am I hurting these sites watching their content without paying them? Yeah, I guess... because even though I wouldn't join their site and pay them directly but I'm enabling PORNHUB who is profiting from them. But geeez it's weird situation. And what about all the content PORNHUB has that I couldn't legit purchase even if I wanted to? I like that it's there to be seen because it would disappear otherwise. If PORNHUB would just do things right and actually be a hub that a studio or even camgirl could use as advertisement to help direct traffic to their sites and/or make fans aware of new and upcoming content they could do so much to help the entire porn biz. Here's clip of the new BLACKED scene. If you like what you see check out BLACKED. Hey, Kelly Divine is still shooting content here's a quick clip. If you like what you see here the address to her site. And for old content that probably wouldn't sell otherwise...put in on there. Evasive Angel has lots of content probably not being used. If there's someone to pay, give them something. If not, go ahead and use/steal it. Just get permission and pay the people accordingly for what you use or what they give you. As far as me using/watching PORNHUB? Do I feel bad watching content there? No. Not really because I still pay for porn. I have a subscription to 3 sites and I still buy movies through AEBN and still buy DVDs. I use PORNHUB kinda like watching movie trailers to decide if I want to pay to watch it in the theatre or just to see what kind of stuff I normally wouldn't buy is out there. Am I part of the problem? Probably. I try not to be. I think people who are the biggest problem are those who just refuse to buy porn and support the industry and only or mostly watch free stuff. Opinions will vary.
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Arnold The Geek Deactivated User
251 Posts 7/17
Posted - Sep 9 2018 : 6:15PM
Given the level of participation at this "awards show" by performers and since Yeezy himself said he doesn't pay for his porn, I guess tubesites aren't that big of a drag on the industry after all. It'll also be hard to keep a straight face when a performer is begging us to pay for porn when one performer is quoted on Twitter as saying she doesn't care if she gets paid for being on those Yeezy sweatshirts because it's such an honor and because she gained new followers.
Well I know Esso. Anyway... I think this is a "teachable moment" about the economics of porn. Sorry if I'm being presumptuous.... You can't make comparisons to the home video (Netflix) market and expect that to hold true in porn. The economics does not work that way. Porn is the most fractured businesses in the world. Literally. And as someone who is making small productions... People now talk about "trillion dollar companies". That's based on market cap. More people watch porn than visit Amazon, but then why does the porn market look so different? Because...porn. I believe that the first, or one of the first, music "singles" (top of the charts) was over 100 years ago. That was a tune called Daisy (and that 'bicycle built for two'). And it wasn't recorded music, it was sheet music sales. Consume on your own. Play with friends. With porn, you not only consume on your own; most people (VASTLY) hide the very fact that they consume it. And they do so in private. Producing porn is also hard. You can produce other types of art-or entertainment-more freely. Porn is...in terms of how it is consumed...weird. It's not like anything else. This must be appreciated if you're going to analyze the market and make bold pronouncements.
That song...looked it up...was from 1892. My point is that the market "muturiy" of porn-in fundamental ways-is low. As a market, porn is retarded, stunted, weird. It's like how markets operated way back in the old days, despite it being part of the internet economy.
I was thinking, just like how some porn performers make extra money making custom movies for fans, maybe porn companies can make extra money doing custom movies for fans! There are some fans who are willing to pay a good amount of money to see a particular performer or dream pairing in a particular scenario.
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SirPudge Deactivated User
160 Posts 7/15
Posted - Sep 10 2018 : 4:11PM
So he's my problem with tube sites, if Lansky and others what to promote pornhub, than going on other tube site should be no issue. Just because you have an affiliation with pornhub does not meant tube sites are ok. I've seen full scenes of Evil Angel on pornhub, and that isn't fair to Evil Angel. I dislike tube sites because I do feel its killing the industry, I pay for porn sites that I enjoy but with tube sites its like why bother if its right there.
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SirPudge Deactivated User
160 Posts 7/15
Posted - Sep 10 2018 : 4:17PM
But thats a business decision by the companies, for example Blacked has shortened scenes because Lansky has partnered with them. Had Lansky not partnered with them you would probably see the full length scene. Trust me, studios like Evil Angel, JJV Elegant Angel are not to fond of tube sites.
The flag on the left gives away I'm not an English native speaker along with some other things, so by reading this thread I'm getting that I was taught wrong , apparently "given" and "taken" are synonyms in fact I'm supposed to believe that a shortened part freely given means permission to freely take the whole. is that so?
Edited by - LCF on 9/10/2018 4:29:58 PM
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Arnold The Geek Deactivated User
251 Posts 7/17
Posted - Sep 10 2018 : 6:49PM
What do you mean killing the industry? Numerous star were there embracing the site. The industry is thriving.
The porn world today reminds me of one of my favorite porn films "For the love of pleasure" from 1979 with Jamie Gillis, Annette Haven, and Lysa Thatcher. Jamie gorges on sex and food, and Annette, who turns out to not be exactly who she is appearance wise, says to Jamie " What makes you think this is heaven ?" at the end. I love the almost full availability of every film/video ever made. At the same time it is like Tony Shaulhoub's Monk character use to say "It is a blessing and a curse". Free porn.... Pay for your porn... but still the same amount of time to consume it.
^^Were they embracing the site or were they embracing Kanye Wests involvement in the award show as a "mainstream acceptance of porn"? Edited by - MorganKane on 9/10/2018 10:32:39 PM
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ReturnOfTheDude Deactivated User
110 Posts 9/18
Posted - Sep 10 2018 : 10:41PM
Well i am glad i could generate this discussion and see different points of view. We may not all agree but its healthy to discuss the options and see how the industry is doing right now. I think porn will change and evolve over time, its a fact. I can see more and more the actual girls being able to make money out of it rather than the compagnies. Think of it this way. 20 years ago there was no way beside feature dancing and such for the girls to make money. They had to rely on compagnies. Now any girl with minimum skill can make and produce her own content and sell the clips trough manyvids or clips4you and such. Or on onlyfans. If anything a lot of fans tend to prefer this more "intimate" way of consuming porn rather than the "pro produced" one. Its like mainstream porn is more acting as a publicity window now for the girls ... wich is not a bad thing when you think about it?
Studios who have had their movies stolen by users who have uploaded them on tube sites are very happy Adult DVD Talk doesn't allow tube site links.
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Arnold The Geek Deactivated User
251 Posts 7/17
Posted - Sep 11 2018 : 10:21AM
Well, it was called the Pornhub Awards and not the Kanye West Awards, I'm going to go with Pornhub for the win. But, Pornhub gives away free porn and West says he doesn't pay for porn. Toss in the numerous porn performers who were there and have said they don't care if they get paid for their likeness being sold by West, I'm going to ask, "Does it really matter who they embrace?" At this point, Oprah could almost pop up and start saying, "You get free porn, and you get free porn, everyone gets free porn!"
^I call B.S on the performers who said they were okay with having their likeness sold by Kanye (or anybody else) without getting paid for it because that makes absolutely no sense. These women make money from selling their likeness and you are telling us that they would be okay with having a multi-millionaire using those likeness to make even more money while they will see no one penny?
I agree with those anti tube sites but also think in a lot of cases the industry really doesn't help itself by not moving with the times. People who want VOD/Downloads are seen as second class citizens. People nowadays rarely want physical copies of anything ESPECIALLY porn
^^ Man I take it as you have not any current membership on any site , and you've haven't been for a good while now. Most sites can be watched in streaming , some even in 4k resolution so yes the industry reached out but apparently nobody noticed You don't have to buy any physical copy, and if you love a scene really a lot you can download it Edited by - LCF on 9/11/2018 1:59:41 PM
Typically later than physical copies, sometimes a LOT later. As an example, Angela White (arguably the hottest pornstar in the biz right now) has been releasing tons of great stuff but her site hasn't had an update since 2017. No update about it, its just not seen as a big deal rhat the scenes released on DVD last summer still aren't available for download. Its not really surprising people go to tube sites in cases like that. The attitude seems to be as long as the DVD is out that's the main thing. Anyone who doesn't want that can wait. That's an extreme example but even on other sites it can be weeks or month's before stuff available on DVD hits sites for download.
^ What are you talking about ? Right now she's mostly working for different site for example Lansky and Bang bros , which is why they aren't on hers Also many sites not only release the single scenes FIRST on their site , they also issue a DVD the same week the last scenes gets released , plus there are many VOD sites. I buy physical copies for collection, but I don't really need to
I'm clearly talking about her own stuff in this case. I'm aware she shoots for other sites I guess we must be interested in different stuff if that's your experience
^its not ok but if they made an effort to make their content available in digital and physical format people that would otherwise pay for it wouldn't have an excuse to watch it on tube sites.
There are some fans who are willing to pay a good amount of money to see a particular performer or dream pairing in a particular scenario.